WWE Region, OKC Subregion, First Round: (10) Big Show vs. (23) Kenta Kobashi

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the WWE Region, Oklahoma City Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WWE Rules. It will be held at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

#10. Big Show

Vs.

#23. Kenta Kobashi

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Bernkastel]

Kenta Kobashi got a raw deal against Chris Jericho last year, but I feel confident that I can put him over the Big Show. Even though Kobashi was never the brightest shining star in AJPW during its heyday, he was always one of it's bigger stars. A member of the 4 Pillars. And later on he did become Pro Wresting NOAH's biggest star for a few years. Drawing big numbers.

For example...

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=140&page=5&reign=6

He defeated Mitsuharu Misawa and went on to hold the GHC heavyweight title for over 700 days. With 15 successful titles reigns in between.

Big Show on the other hand was never a top star; in either WCW or WWE. He was treated more like a novelty than a huge draw. And he has been booked as everything from a world champion to a midcarder. To me that's not enough to put him over a wrestler the caliber of Kenta Kobashi.

Vote Kenta.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Kenta Kobashi got a raw deal against Chris Jericho last year, but I feel confident that I can put him over the Big Show. Even though Kobashi was never the brightest shining star in AJPW during its heyday, he was always one of it's bigger stars. A member of the 4 Pillars. And later on he did become Pro Wresting NOAH's biggest star for a few years. Drawing big numbers.

For example...

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=140&page=5&reign=6

He defeated Mitsuharu Misawa and went on to hold the GHC heavyweight title for over 700 days. With 15 successful titles reigns in between.

Big Show on the other hand was never a top star; in either WCW or WWE. He was treated more like a novelty than a huge draw. And he has been booked as everything from a world champion to a midcarder. To me that's not enough to put him over a wrestler the caliber of Kenta Kobashi.

Vote Kenta.

I'd like to add to this but it's really hard because of the fact that you brought up just about everything I was going to. That said Kenta ended up being the top star after Misawa was gone. And he's had some of the greatest matches in the history of wrestling, including his epic feud with Misawa. This really isn't that close. Kenta should win by a mile.

Kobashi with a burning lariat to Big show..

 

[nightmare]

Big Show gets mad like Godzilla & crushes the little Asian guy. Kenta takes a chokeslam or KO punch for his trouble & Show walks on to the second round. This isnt Japan, this is 'Murica & people in Oklahoma like monster trucks, beer & getting revenge for Pearl Harbor.



Kenta goes down. America. Fuck Yeah.

 

[RedRegan1005]

Kenta Kobashi is very talented, and actually has good size, unfortunately he got put up against the 7ft 500lb Big Show. This was tough one for me to pick, it's size verse skill. If this match was in Japan, or at least in the International bracket I might have picked Kobashi. But considering this match is in America and in the WWE Region, I'm gonna go Big Show. A Japanese star isn't going to come over and beat someone the Size of Big Show in his home country. I'd expect a good back and forward match that would end with a Knockout Punch out of nowhere giving Show the win. I'm gonna vote Big Show.

 

[The Brain]

I admit I don't know a whole lot about Kobashi but I think he can handle the Big Show. Big Show has always been the guy that was booked to be a threat to the guy that beat him but rarely got the big win himself. I'll pick Kobashi in an upset as he surprises the US crowd by taking down the giant.

 

[HBsam31]

Not to knowledgeable about Kobashi, but from following the tournament last year I think he can upset the Big Show. He was a top star which Big Show never was. Show was always the guy to lose to the main guy so I put Kobashi over here.

 

[Tastycles]

Everybody will vote Kobashi and he will win, despite the fact that The Big Show is better. Kobashi is a niche star, but Big Show was pretty much the only person to main event both companies during the Monday Night Wars when they were at their respective peaks. The fact that as an old man he's become a bit of a jobber is irrelevant, in 1996 he was beating Hogan and Ric Flair. In 1999 he was beating The Rock and Triple H. Kobashi isn't even "The Rock of Japan" or whatever, so to assume he can beat one of the biggest names of the 90s is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that Paul Wight, in whatever guise from 1995-2000 would ever lose this match.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Everybody will vote Kobashi and he will win, despite the fact that The Big Show is better. Kobashi is a niche star, but Big Show was pretty much the only person to main event both companies during the Monday Night Wars when they were at their respective peaks. The fact that as an old man he's become a bit of a jobber is irrelevant, in 1996 he was beating Hogan and Ric Flair. In 1999 he was beating The Rock and Triple H. Kobashi isn't even "The Rock of Japan" or whatever, so to assume he can beat one of the biggest names of the 90s is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that Paul Wight, in whatever guise from 1995-2000 would ever lose this match.

Yes Big Show beat Rock but Big Show wasn't exactly the Rock either. That said Kenta beat Misawa who was pretty much the Rock of his generation if not the Stone Cold Steve/Rock of his generation. This match might be close but I think Kobashi wins. So saying Big Show would NEVER lose this match is a bit far fetched.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

According to the Internet Wrestling Database, Big Show has a career winning percentage of 55.52%. Kenta has a winning percentage of 50.83%. Now I may have failed Algebra 2 twice, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying 55 is bigger than 50.

In the words of the great orator of our generation, Scott Steiner, the numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for you.

Big Show goes over.

 

[Bernkastel]

Everybody will vote Kobashi and he will win, despite the fact that The Big Show is better. Kobashi is a niche star, but Big Show was pretty much the only person to main event both companies during the Monday Night Wars when they were at their respective peaks. The fact that as an old man he's become a bit of a jobber is irrelevant, in 1996 he was beating Hogan and Ric Flair. In 1999 he was beating The Rock and Triple H. Kobashi isn't even "The Rock of Japan" or whatever, so to assume he can beat one of the biggest names of the 90s is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that Paul Wight, in whatever guise from 1995-2000 would ever lose this match.

So? Kobashi beat all the big names AJPW had to offer. And unlike Big Show he was never booked below the upper mid card. Big Show has been booked everywhere. Even as a straight out jobber for a couple months in 2002. Based on that I'd already be leaning Kobashi because I'd take the man with decades of consistent booking as an upper mid carder and later as the top dog of a successful company for years over the man that has only found that level of success sparingly in a career that lasted about the same length.

Big Show has a place, and it's below Kobashi.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

According to the Internet Wrestling Database, Big Show has a career winning percentage of 55.52%. Kenta has a winning percentage of 50.83%. Now I may have failed Algebra 2 twice, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying 55 is bigger than 50.

In the words of the great orator of our generation, Scott Steiner, the numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for you.

Big Show goes over.

Yeah here's my problem with that logic, Kenta really never fought jobbers, there was a short span where he did but Big Show's W/L record is inflated due to him facing a lot of jobbers and for a short time Big Show was pretty much a jobber. Kenta also was the top guy and had a reign of 735days, which is insane. Kenta was dominate, while Show has never been.

 

[Big Sexy]

I still don't understand all the love for foreign wrestlers when the match isn't taking place in the international region. Kobashi may be great in Japan but how does that translate to a match against the Big Show in Oklahoma? A ROH victory over Samoa Joe doesn't make you a success in the US. Big Show was a world champion in the top two promotions of the cable TV era. He has beaten some of the biggest names the industry has ever seen. Almost all wrestlers with long careers in the US spend time in the mid card and even on the lower end of the card but Big Show has spent plenty of time in the main event and has done very well for himself.

I'm not ignorant and I'm not going to say that international wrestling doesn't matter. I'm not going to argue that some of these international names aren't legends. However, if they haven't had any success in the US or much success against top American wrestlers internationally, then why should I vote them over top US wrestlers when that's where the match is taking place? There are plenty of American wrestlers who are good but not great, or in some cases complete shit in the states, that have success in Japan. If Johnny fucking Ace and Dr Death (I know Steve Williams was big in Japan) can beat him in Japan then he wouldn't go over Big Show in the states.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Kobashi is Cena's size, so that is not an issue here.

Kobashi main evented AJPW and NOAH, so Big Show's dominance in multiple promotions is rendered moot.

Kenta beat all of the top stars of Japan in the late 90s, early 2000s; so Show's list of impressive wins doesn't hold up as an advantage either.

Kobashi's dominance in NOAH in the first half of the 2000s decade was a more sustained level of dominant booking than Big Show ever received. Also Kobashi was never booked as a sideshow losing matches to Sumo wrestlers on major shows or jobbing to boxers a third of his size just to help sell a big show(no pun intended).

Kobashi is a legend for his ability, accomplishments, and status in his home country as a wrestler, Show's notoriety is mostly a product of his size, personality, and side show type appeal. He would be an entertaining person to feed to Kobashi in the first round before Kenta inevitably moved on.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I still don't understand all the love for foreign wrestlers when the match isn't taking place in the international region. Kobashi may be great in Japan but how does that translate to a match against the Big Show in Oklahoma? A ROH victory over Samoa Joe doesn't make you a success in the US. Big Show was a world champion in the top two promotions of the cable TV era. He has beaten some of the biggest names the industry has ever seen. Almost all wrestlers with long careers in the US spend time in the mid card and even on the lower end of the card but Big Show has spent plenty of time in the main event and has done very well for himself.

I'm not ignorant and I'm not going to say that international wrestling doesn't matter. I'm not going to argue that some of these international names aren't legends. However, if they haven't had any success in the US or much success against top American wrestlers internationally, then why should I vote them over top US wrestlers when that's where the match is taking place? There are plenty of American wrestlers who are good but not great, or in some cases complete shit in the states, that have success in Japan. If Johnny fucking Ace and Dr Death (I know Steve Williams was big in Japan) can beat him in Japan then he wouldn't go over Big Show in the states.

Yes Johnny Ace beat him at the beginning of Kobashi's career in 1989 when Kobashi was a nothing. This would be kind of like being critical of Triple H for losing to a Godwin or losing in seconds to the Ultimate Warrior. It's not like it was during Kobashi's prime when he was a dominate force, and I don't see how that's a huge deal.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yes Johnny Ace beat him at the beginning of Kobashi's career in 1989 when Kobashi was a nothing. This would be kind of like being critical of Triple H for losing to a Godwin or losing in seconds to the Ultimate Warrior. It's not like it was during Kobashi's prime when he was a dominate force, and I don't see how that's a huge deal.

Fantastic, it doesn't take away from the main point I was making. He didn't have success in the US and he didn't have much success against top US talents internationally. It's like a top European basketball player coming over to the NBA and being role player off the bench.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Fantastic, it doesn't take away from the main point I was making. He didn't have success in the US and he didn't have much success against top US talents internationally. It's like a top European basketball player coming over to the NBA and being role player off the bench.

Manu Ginobili, Barbosa, Calderon, are all better than a bunch of starters in the league and they are all backups or have been. Plus you're speculating on the fact that Kobashi would be a role player, you don't know that. He could be Tim Duncan or Yao Ming or Steve Nash. You can look at success of Japanese stars in America and all that but most of the people you'll point out that have come to America and been jokes haven't had Kobashi's success or been close to as big as he is.

 

[Big Sexy]

Manu Ginobili, Barbosa, Calderon, are all better than a bunch of starters in the league and they are all backups or have been. Plus you're speculating on the fact that Kobashi would be a role player, you don't know that. He could be Tim Duncan or Yao Ming or Steve Nash. You can look at success of Japanese stars in America and all that but most of the people you'll point out that have come to America and been jokes haven't had Kobashi's success or been close to as big as he is.

You have so many players to choose from and two of the three you go with are Leandro Barbosa and Jose Calderon? Nothing to do with this tournament but c'mon lol. I can only go off of what is an undisputed fact. Big Show is a huge American star who has been dominant in the main event scene for two top companies in the US. Kobashi beat Samoa Joe in ROH (minor league promotion) and then split in Japan with a mid 40's Vader who left the US because he was no longer a main event talent in the states. Those are facts not speculation.

From 1995 until 1998 Big Show only lost two singles matches by pin or submission in WCW. Those losses were to Hogan and Lex Luger (who Show pinned earlier in the same year). I'd say that is an extremely dominant run considering the big names in WCW at that time.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

You have so many players to choose from and two of the three you go with are Leandro Barbosa and Jose Calderon? Nothing to do with this tournament but c'mon lol. I can only go off of what is an undisputed fact. Big Show is a huge American star who has been dominant in the main event scene for two top companies in the US. Kobashi beat Samoa Joe in ROH (minor league promotion) and then split in Japan with a mid 40's Vader who left the US because he was no longer a main event talent in the states. Those are facts not speculation.

Vader was bigger in Japan than in the US because Big Van Vader was a product of Japan. The gimmick, the monster that he was, and everything Vader became was because of his success in Japan and the gimmick they gave him. Vader had left for Japan multiple times including in 1995 when he was a huge star. So saying he went there just because he "wasn't over in the US" anymore is not only subjective but it's also speculative. Vader even stayed in the Japan during some of his first run in WCW. He didn't need to but still did it. It's kind of like the return of Lex Lugar to the WCW (only bigger), Lugar wasn't as big in the WWF but when he returned to WCW he was huge again. Same thing with Vader. Everything Vader did in the US is a credit to Japanese wrestling especially the WCW years is a credit to Japanese wrestling. Vader returned home and that was a big deal. Just like when a guy returned home in other feds. It's a big deal. Vader came home and yes he was a bigger star there than when he left the WWE. Just like Flair was a bigger star when he returned home from the WWE, or Lugar was when he returned, it's pretty basic logic. Where you make your name is often the place you'll have your most success and where your name resonates the longest. So Kobashi's loss to Vader isn't that big when you take that into consideration.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Kobashi beat cancer. He's beaten many big Japanese and American wrestlers who wrestled in Japan.

Big Show, in his prime, was dominant. He beat Ric Flair for the World Heavyweight Title. Ric Flair. He also beat Hogan during his days as Hollywood Hogan. Not many people in this tourney can say they beat both Hogan and Flair clean. Show did.

Show wins via chokeslam, which knocks a tumor out of Kobashi, saving his life.

 

[Papa Pillman]

He also beat Hogan during his days as Hollywood Hogan. Not many people in this tourney can say they beat both Hogan and Flair clean. Show did.

Show's title win against Hogan came via a stipulation that gave him the title on a DQ, and he was stripped on Nitro the next week.

He decidedly lost that feud to Hogan in the end, getting beat cleanly in a cage match when Hogan escaped at SuperBrawl in '96.

Most of his title reigns were short(aside from the WWECW reign if you even consider that a world title reign), even though he beat all-time greats he ultimately lost practically all of those feuds, and you can't discount the number of times he's been used as nothing more than a joke or a sideshow.

In a one-off with a guy like Kobashi, Show would really just be there to put the guy over.

 

[CyberPunk]

Very close, but Big Show wins. Why? This match is in WWE region. Big Show is as big in WWE as anyone may get. He's triple crown champion.

Kenta might be big in Japan, but in WWE region, it's Big Show.

 

[Bernkastel]

Very close, but Big Show wins. Why? This match is in WWE region. Big Show is as big in WWE as anyone may get. He's triple crown champion.

Kenta might be big in Japan, but in WWE region, it's Big Show.

Region wouldn't and shouldn't count for jack. It's as subjective as the means of voting.

Clearly Kobashi would be booked to win because he is the bigger star/bigger legacy/ bigger draw/has made Meltzer cum his pants 10 million times. Big Show has been the bearer of inconsistent booking for years now. Kobashi was the biggest star in the major company pulling out gates the size of Wrestlemania's.

He'd fuck the shit out of Big Show.

 

[Papa Pillman]

/has made Meltzer cum his pants 10 million times.

Great point. Kobashi had something like 23 matches rated "Five stars" by the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.

That's worth atleast 9.75 Rolling Elbows out of 10 on the Misawa Scale.

 

[deem]

I ADORE Kobashi so this pains me a lot, but I'm voting Big Show. I wanted to be swayed by the Kenta arguments but they are all under-selling Show. Sure, he spent some time out of the main event, but this is prime v prime and Big Show at his best was dominant against the VERY best of the era. He's an unselfish guy who adores the business and is very willing to job.. also, he'd hugely talented imo, was crazy agile in his WCW prime and is incredibly versatile.

I think I want Kenta to win, but I'm sticking to my voting methods and going with the established global superstar with numerous world titles in the biggest feds ever. If this was neutral ground, I think I'd take Kenta. To illustrate how close this is, I'd probably take Misawa over Big Show and he's only a notch above Kobashi on my kayfabe list.

Big Show's peak was up there with the best ever in kayfabe. I'm truly not underselling Kobashi when I say I think he narrowly loses here.

edit: This is tight and it's my final decision in the first round, my vote could be decisive. Someone please convince me that Kobashi is kayfabe better than The Giant in his prime in WCW, because I want to vote Kenta.