WWE Region, Miami Subregion, First Round: (15) Bruiser Brody vs. (18) Rikidozan

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the WWE Region, Miami Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WWE Rules. It will be held at the American Airlines Arena in Miami, Florida.

#15. Bruiser Brody

Vs.

#18. Rikidozan

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[6timehitta]

Ok, seeing as no1 is touching this subject, I'll take a crack at it. Brody is an absolute madman and I wonder if Rikidozian, has seen something like Brody before? Brody is also a very big man, and I think the unpredictability of the Bruiser, gets him over the Japanese Champion.

 

[Con T.]

What Andre the Giant was for wrestling in the seventies, Bruiser Brody was for wrestling in the eighties.

Let me explain; Bruiser was a really big guy, with a limitation or two, that you could bring into your territory for a short spurt, and watch your business spike greatly. And it sure did spike; Bruiser was the last great traveling draw, if you ask me.

The problem was, Bruiser did this in an era where territories were becoming national promotions. Had Bruiser Brody existed in the sixties and seventies, we may be talking about him as this really great special attraction, the likes of which wouldn't be duplicated.

But that's just the problem; he was a special attraction.

At the risk of sounding cliche, Rikidozan, literally, was Japanese wrestling for a while. And mind you, it started just like any wrestling business (that being the hatred of foreign born people), but he set up shop, and that can't be ignored. So as much as I legitimately love Bruiser Brody, Rikidozan wins here

 

[Bernkastel]

Brody was a great worker, there's no denying that. But as far as star power is concerned he couldn't even begin to scratch Rikidozan. Rikidozan, along with Antonio Inoki and Mitsuharu Misawa, are the three biggest draws of puroresu, with Rikidozan pulling in the highest ratings and tens of thousands of people - and this was back in the 50's.

Rikidozan vs Brody would have played out like the typical "Japanese hero" vs "evil American gajin" matches like the did at the time that match the man so popular. In his heyday Rikidozan was the top face with a whole nation behind him, and there's no way he would feasibly lose to someone like Brody.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I'm going with Brody for 1 simple reason? The fact that this match takes place in Miami, Florida.

Rikidozan was Japanese wrestling and basically built it on his own back but he was also booked very differently in America because he was Japanese. In Japan he was the hero, in America he was the no good villain because that's how wrestling was back then. Where a person is booked plays a big part in who would win the match and Rikidozan would not be the Japanese hero in this match up, no way, no how. If this match was in the Tokyo Dome or something then Rikidozan would roll over Brody even if Brody didn't want to, in America, a place where Brody rarely lost if ever and in an area where he was a big name, Brody would most likely win.

Rikidozan means a lot in pro wrestling, but he doesn't mean much in America. Brody wins.

 

[Tastycles]

The reason bruiser brody was so ubiquitous is because he was too unprofessional to keep a job. While Rikidozan dominated a promotion and made himself a national icon, Brody had to be the big fish in a series of small ponds. For me, this is a no contest. One of the most successful and popular wrestlers in history versus a charlatan. Vote Rikidozan.

 

[LSN80]

A crazy draw. Two wrestlers who were stabbed to death by rivals when they were far too young.

I'm surprised to see things this close. Folks, Rikidozan was the biggest draw in Japanese history,period, considered to be the Japanese Hulk Hogan. Just three years before his death, he beat freaking Lou Thesz for the NWA championship, which established himself internationally as well. He was hailed in Japan not only as their biggest star, but a hero as well. He likely would have achieved much more had he not been stabbed to death at just 39 years of age. The man was legit, a retired sumo wrestler when he entered pro wrestling. He trained Antonio Inoki and Giant Baba, amongst others. The only essential chink in his armor here is that he's wrestling in Miami, where he would likely be booked as a heel, as was the custom in his day.

As for Brody, he had a relatively short wrestling career, and most of fame(or infamy) came from his unwillingness to job to other wrestlers, and his inability to remain with any promotion for very long because he was so unprofessional.He had some success in Japan and the NWA, but it didn't near rivaling Rikidozan's.

Brody was bigger and likely stronger then Rikidozan, and his brawling style mayve given Rikidozan difficulties. Ultimately, however, Rikidozan was the bigger star, and would have come out on top after a 20 minute affair with a karate chop and a piledriver to the big man.

As for venue, I'll take the guy who bested Lou Thesz in Japan to beat the default face Brody in Miami. Between Thesz, Freddie Blassie and The Destroyer, Rikidozan would have seen everything Brody had and then some, and would have an answer for it. Seeded far too low, Rikidozan wins this.

 

[Brewski]

I meant to vote for Rikidozan but accidentally clicked Brody. Any way I can switch?

Rikidozan's legacy in japan far outweighs anything brody's ever done.

 

[deem]

This is absolutely the hardest poll open at the moment. So struggling to even work out a feasible way to decide who goes over here.

I mean right, I agree, the location favours Brody. But that's the reason it's tough for me. If this was in Japan there isn't even a question and Rikidozan smashes through.

And if I wasn't trying to be unbiased (I voted Kerry over Hennig ffs) I'd probably take Bruiser. I really love him. Rikidozan is fine but I've only seen clips and his 60m draw with Lou Thesz, which I enjoyed but not as much as I hoped I would. Wanna watch more of his but he didn't leave me rushing back.

Ok so - Rikidozan made a gimmick out of crushing Americans. I'm trying to find his record on American soil and whether he ever journeyed there. His gimmick was very definitely anti-American, calling them lazy compared to their Japanese counterparts etc. Bit of a douchebag from what I've read anyway so maybe heel would be natural outside his country.

Right so first thing I find - embarked on a 13 month trip wrestling through America. Fought 260 times lost three times. Never heard of the guys he lost to - Leo Nomellini, Tom Rice and Ike Aikens. Nomellini holds a 2/3 falls win over Thesz in a title match but never won the strap (one fall was a DQ). Looks like he never returned to America after this?

Yh this is really tough. Rikidozan was undoubtedly the ace, won the lot, was billed kayfabe as the equal of Lou Thesz, but on his terms in his country.

Brody of course has a bad win/loss against all the Japanese greatest. 24 wins, 16 draws and 32 defeats vs Jumbo. 17w 12d 28l vs Baba. 7w 11d 29l vs Inoki. 11w 9d 16l vs Tenryu. Thing is, all these matches were in Japan so it's really hard to take them as what would happen here. Plus while he was bossed over every feud with these huge names, holding 17 wins vs Baba and 24 wins vs Jumbo in Japan is a bigggg deal. A huge huge deal.

I just don't know how to gauge this being in the US. I'm taking Bruiser Brody. His record vs the other Aces in Japan is pretty decent when you consider each at one time was the "Hulk Hogan" of the country. While Rikidozan was the man for his time too, the roster he arrived into was fairly thin with little competition to being top dog.

Yh right or wrong, I think Rikidozan is worse than a lot that Brody feuded with. That, plus the fact that it's an anti-american gimmick on American soil vs an American, is enough for me to think that Brody would advance. I'm like 55% on his side here though, I'm very happy for Rikidozan to go through too.

 

[D-Man]

You have a guy who made himself popular by being a complete and total, unprofessional, tough psycho versus a guy who made himself popular the old fashioned way: by beating better wrestlers and becoming an icon in the business.

Guys, please do some research. Don't vote on who you've heard of versus who you haven't.

Besides creating behind-the-scenes controversy and putting on stiff matches, Brody did nothing for professional wrestling. Rikidozan is an international icon and one of the top wrestlers of all time. This should be a walk in the park for Rikidozan.

 

[supernatural1981]

From what i have read about both these guys i lean towards Rikidozan just for his accomplishments alone.

Brody was a monster in and out of the ring but never did half as much as Rikidozan did

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm going with Brody for 1 simple reason? The fact that this match takes place in Miami, Florida.

The location shouldn't matter in this tournament, and in this match it wouldn't matter regardless.

Rikidozan was Japanese wrestling and basically built it on his own back but he was also booked very differently in America because he was Japanese. In Japan he was the hero, in America he was the no good villain because that's how wrestling was back then.

Rikidozan wasn't Japanese, he was Korean. And no, the two aren't remotely the same thing. When he did visit the States he was still often booked to win regardless, unless he went up against a huge regional name like Thesz - whom he defeated several times anyways.

Where a person is booked plays a big part in who would win the match and Rikidozan would not be the Japanese hero in this match up, no way, no how. If this match was in the Tokyo Dome or something then Rikidozan would roll over Brody even if Brody didn't want to, in America, a place where Brody rarely lost if ever and in an area where he was a big name, Brody would most likely win.

Sound argument.... except Brody's prime came when he was wrestling in Japan as a heel; he only found moderate success in the States. He'd actually have less of an advantage working as a face in the States against a heel like Rikidozan, who defeated all but the top babyfaces.

Rikidozan means a lot in pro wrestling, but he doesn't mean much in America. Brody wins.

Yes, he meant so little to America that he won the most prestigious belt that they had, defeating the most popular wrestler in the world at the time, which later led to the creation of the JWA and the explosion of popularity of pro wrestling in Japan.

Don't be foolish; Rikidozan wins this match in spades.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

So... the match is in the States, so Rikidozan (a natural face) and Brody (a natural heel) would automatically reverse roles? Is this being fought in the 50s? I know that this is the WWe Region and Vince has been known to use racial stereotypes in the past but, despite the fact that KB has already stated it's only the WWe Region by name, even he has pushed massive faces from other countries as massive faces in the WWe.

The only variation there would be to Rikidozan act in this match is that he would drop his anti-American act. Asides from that he would play the babyface in peril going over the monster heel... and if Brody should attempt to deviate from the plot, the ref'll disqualify his ass.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

The location shouldn't matter in this tournament, and in this match it wouldn't matter regardless.

Why wouldn't location matter? Location often matters who wins and loses in matches.

Rikidozan wasn't Japanese, he was Korean. And no, the two aren't remotely the same thing. When he did visit the States he was still often booked to win regardless, unless he went up against a huge regional name like Thesz - whom he defeated several times anyways.

It doesn't matter if he was Korean. He didn't build wrestling in Korea, he built wrestling in Japan, he lived in Japan and in Americans eyes when he did wrestle he may as well be Japanese. Nikita Koloff isn't Russian either, what's your point?

Yes he did win a lot in the States (although all his winning was in Hawaii and the West Coast). I'm aware Lou Thesz put him over as Rikidozan put Thesz over as well. Brody isn't as cooperative as Lou Thesz is though. I never said he didn't win I just said he wasn't the hero in the States, which he wasn't. His character in Japan and his character in the States are completely different.

Sound argument.... except Brody's prime came when he was wrestling in Japan as a heel; he only found moderate success in the States. He'd actually have less of an advantage working as a face in the States against a heel like Rikidozan, who defeated all but the top babyfaces.

Brody drew a lot of money in the States. Sure, he was extremely popular in Japan but don't discredit his popularity in the States as he was very popular. One of those places was in Florida, a place the Rikidozan never wrestled. I'm just saying Brody (who was a draw in Florida) beating a foreign villain isn't that much of a stretch, especially when Brody rarely lost to anybody regardless of the circumstances.

Yes, he meant so little to America that he won the most prestigious belt that they had, defeating the most popular wrestler in the world at the time, which later led to the creation of the JWA and the explosion of popularity of pro wrestling in Japan.

Don't be foolish; Rikidozan wins this match in spades.

He won the NWA International title from Thesz, I don't recall that being the most prestigious title in the States. Yes, it was prestigious in Japan, it's part of the triple crown but that title was created as a partnership with JWA.

I understand what you are saying, I understand what Rikidozan did for wrestling but the circumstances of a tournament are completely different. Rikidozan won as much as he did was so they could build wrestling in Japan as before Rikidozan there was pretty much nothing in regards to wrestling there. Under Rikidozan the NWA realized that Japan could be another place for them to do good business in(which they did) so they are going to push Japan's top star to the moon. He was a formidable opponent for Lou Thesz and Thesz had enough respect for him that he would willingly lose to Rikidozan. Personally I think its a shame Brody didn't have such qualities but that's neither here or there.

My argument really comes down to this. Rikidozan didn't wrestle in Florida. Brody was big in Texas as well as Florida so he's naturally gonna get love there which is why I picked him (that location thing I was talking about).

I probably shouldn't have said Rikidozan didn't mean much as that's really unfair to him. What I should have said is he played the foreign villain here who often cheated and won 2 singles titles in the States. He rarely lost in the States, but then again neither did Brody and even though Brody was often booked the heel would still get cheered, sometimes over the promotions top star. Also with this match being close to those Carribean where Brody was unbelievably huge its very plausible for him to beat Rikidozan in such a circumstance.

I'm probably overthinking it (which I wouldn't doubt) but I think Brody would win. I'm certainly not against Rikidozan winning but I wouldn't consider this a walk in the park by any means. Honestly I was pretty darn close to voting for him but went with Brody.

 

[Bernkastel]

Why wouldn't location matter? Location often matters who wins and loses in matches.

True, but why would it matter in a tournament such as this when we have superstars that never left their home country competing in hypothetical contests? The whole point is to vote the better wrestler over.

It doesn't matter if he was Korean. He didn't build wrestling in Korea, he built wrestling in Japan, he lived in Japan and in Americans eyes when he did wrestle he may as well be Japanese. Nikita Koloff isn't Russian either, what's your point?

I find it utterly amazing that he was able to build such popularity being a non Japanese, with the country being incredibly ethnocentric at the time.

Yes he did win a lot in the States (although all his winning was in Hawaii and the West Coast). I'm aware Lou Thesz put him over as Rikidozan put Thesz over as well. Brody isn't as cooperative as Lou Thesz is though.

Brody isn't anywhere close to Thesz's level, and would have been the type of wrestler Rikidozan would have gone over while working as a heel. When Thesz was a heel, Rikidozan still beat him.

I never said he didn't win I just said he wasn't the hero in the States, which he wasn't. His character in Japan and his character in the States are completely different.

It doesn't matter when he was still booked to either go over or job to the best stars in the region or promotion, and Brody was never either.

Brody drew a lot of money in the States. Sure, he was extremely popular in Japan but don't discredit his popularity in the States as he was very popular.

But not to the level as he was in Japan. That was his prime as a performer.

One of those places was in Florida, a place the Rikidozan never wrestled. I'm just saying Brody (who was a draw in Florida) beating a foreign villain isn't that much of a stretch, especially when Brody rarely lost to anybody regardless of the circumstances.

Brody was a draw in Florida, but not a big one. When Rikidozan was in his prime the big stars in the FCW territory were guys like Thesz and Kiniski who were far bigger than Brody.

Brody rarely lost to wrestlers of his caliber, like Lex Lugar or Abdullah, but lost frequently to bigger stars like Inoki, Hanson, and Tsuruta. With none of those three being on Rikidozan's level as a draw.

He won the NWA International title from Thesz, I don't recall that being the most prestigious title in the States. Yes, it was prestigious in Japan, it's part of the triple crown but that title was created as a partnership with JWA.

Even so, by the time Rikidozan defeated Thesz for the title he had already been a four time world champion. The International title had the same prestige as the world title since Thesz held it in the same regard.

I understand what you are saying, I understand what Rikidozan did for wrestling but the circumstances of a tournament are completely different. Rikidozan won as much as he did was so they could build wrestling in Japan as before Rikidozan there was pretty much nothing in regards to wrestling there.Under Rikidozan the NWA realized that Japan could be another place for them to do good business in(which they did) so they are going to push Japan's top star to the moon. He was a formidable opponent for Lou Thesz and Thesz had enough respect for him that he would willingly lose to Rikidozan. Personally I think its a shame Brody didn't have such qualities but that's neither here or there.

So if you understand then why are you voting for Brody, who was clearly not the superior wrestler regardless of which category you use?

My argument really comes down to this. Rikidozan didn't wrestle in Florida. Brody was big in Texas as well as Florida so he's naturally gonna get love there which is why I picked him (that location thing I was talking about).

Brody was a big star in Florida, but not as big as the stars Florida had when Rikidozan was in his prime. If anything you should be faulting Brody for not being as big of a star as Thesz, Kiniski, or Race rather than faulting Rikidozan for being booked to job to only the top stars in a region.

I probably shouldn't have said Rikidozan didn't mean much as that's really unfair to him.

He meant more to wrestling than Brody.

What I should have said is he played the foreign villain here who often cheated and won 2 singles titles in the States. He rarely lost in the States, but then again neither did Brody and even though Brody was often booked the heel would still get cheered, sometimes over the promotions top star.

Brody would lose to the top stars in Japan, but he only worked against average to mid range stars in the States while Rikidozan defeated the best of the best in Japan, and only jobbed to the best of the best while working internationally. Put Brody up against Thesz or Gagne and he'd also lose, regardless if he was a face or heel.

 

[The Brain]

I went with Rikidozan. I feel his legacy and popularity are enough to get him by the journeyman who's unprofessionalism cost him his life.

 

[HBsam31]

I looked some thing up and after reading the posts I voted for Rikidozan. ONe of the top guys in Japan ever is enough for me. I have seen Brody only sporadically, and after reading here he seems to be very flawed. Seems this one is closer than it should be.