WWE Region, Cairo Subregion, Second Round: (4) Kurt Angle vs. (13) Ed Lewis

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round match in the WWE Region, Cairo Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WWE Rules. It will be held at Cairo International Stadium in Cairo, Egypt.

#4. Kurt Angle

Vs.

#13. Ed Lewis

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Bernkastel]

Kurt Angle was a wrestling machine. But so was Ed Lewis. According to ballyhoo and lore, this was a man that wrestled a 5 hour match and then when out for a night on the town, dancing and drinking, while his opponent went to the hospital. There’s no denying the talent of Kurt Angle, but his credentials mean little in the face of the Strangler. Angle wasn’t even the first Olympic gold medalist in pro wrestling. Meet Henri Deglane; the 1924 greco roman gold medalist. When Strangler dropped the AWA world championship to him he was basically screwed out of the title via DQ [and he’d later avenge the loss.] It wasn’t a double cross. It was a straight up screw job like Bret Hart’s, because rival promoters were pissed at him for double crossing the former champion Ed Don George. George was another Olympic athlete, who missed the bronze medal by a very narrow margin. On short notice Strangler had instructed the young champion to lay down for him, because he felt that he could headline better than George could, and he complied knowing he could not defeat the older Lewis in a shoot. So they chose to work the fix and had a great match in process.

Angle through his career beat all the top guys. Impressive, but so did Kane, Taker, and Jericho. Angle was never the top guy of the WWE at any time. He had to move to a much smaller promotion in order to achieve that. Strangler ruled pro wrestling for over a decade. And was responsible for establishing the way pro wrestling ultimately works today. He founded the first wrestling cards with his wrestling troupe. He pioneered modern day psychology methods, and worked brilliantly as both a face and a heel. He was probably wrestling’s first true “bad guy.” Angle didn’t even use half the methods Strangler used 70 years prior to work crowds. His idea of psychology is to hit a dozen suplexes in a row, the Angle slam, and then strap on the ankle lock out of nowhere. Not only could Strangler have easily countered Angle’s every move, but he was much smarter. He wrestled barefoot because he knew that it was harder for an opponent to hook his feet and ankles that way. Even modern MMA fighters do this because it’s true. Rusev wrestles barefoot, and it makes him look all that more legitimate. That was another way Strangler worked audiences by appearance alone.

So here’s the rundown…

Drawing power – It’s the Strangler. He was wrestling’s biggest draw for a decade and he had lots of competition. Kurt Angle was never WWE’s biggest star and had just as much competition for the top spot. In fact even when Londos finally surpassed Lewis in the 30’s as wrestling’s top star, Lewis still remained a close second. He was able to bring instant credibility to the NWA in the 50’s just by being associated with them. Strangler started probably the biggest wrestling revolution, and the most important wrestling boom in history.

Accolades - Kurt Angle is a 12 time world champion. 6 in the WWE where he was never once the top dog, and 6 in TNA where he was top dog but the promotion never grew under his star power. Strangler is a 10 time world champion in an era where there were many “world champions.” But every time Strangler held a world title the fans immediately recognized it as the top title in the world, even if it didn’t have roots back to Gotch. Lewis was seen as that important by fans at the time; and as a result Lewis remained champion for a combined 10+ years. Has TNA’s world title ever been seen on the same level as WWE’s just because Angle held it? Nope.

Longevity – Strangler spent 3 decades as one of the most recognized pro wrestlers on the planet. Kurt Angle has spent the past decade being a major player in a much smaller promotion. Not close. Point for Lewis.

Charisma – Kurt Angle can talk. He can act. But so could Strangler Lewis. In fact Strangler was one of the most masterful, gifted manipulative speakers in all of wrestling history, right up there with Flair and Rocky. When he spoke people listened. The tales he spun to fans, the media, the papers, the Athletic Commission made him far more popular than just his natural ability to draw fans. In fact you could say that was the reason he continued to draw fans for so long. He was that polarizing of a speaker and actor. By the time radio took off, Lewis had figured out how to use the new medium into making himself a household name with popularity on par with Jack Dempsey and Babe Ruth. He later used television to help transform Thesz into one of the biggest stars ever as his manager.

Consistency – Strangler rarely ever lost matches. And when he did it was always super important; even when he was old and fat. There were times he didn’t even lose championships without having to be screwed out of them. Kurt spent just as much time not being a top star as he did being a top star. At one point he saw such low points as being Sharmell’s stalker and getting his head shaved. The most embarrassing moments for Lewis came when he’d get into the ring at 300+ pounds, blinded by trachoma, and still pretended he was 20 years younger and healthier. And even then fans still saw Strangler as the real deal and best ever, because he had worked them into believing he was still the real deal and best ever. Point Lewis.

Overall legacy – Strangler was one of the most important influences on modern pro wrestling. He started booking cards with Billy Sandow and Toots Mondt. Established early forms of what would eventually become full-fledged promotions with his troupe. Created the first story lines in wrestling and was responsible for pulling fans into the story and keeping the heat going. He used many of the same psychological techniques that modern wrestlers use to work fans today. The athletic commission controlled pro wrestling back then, and not only could he manipulate them for his and the fans benefit, but he was able to work great matches with the silly rules and regulations they imposed. Like rolling pin falls. Kurt Angle was just one of the big stars of the 90’s. Never the biggest; and certainly not for several decades like Lewis.

In ring ability – If you believe that Ed Lewis could not be compared to modern pro wrestlers because you believe he worked in an era where matches were legitimate then you are a buffoon. First off matches were only billed as shoots. They were still mostly works. Fans and critics knew that matches had been fixed before, and Strangler worked hard to reestablish that sense of “legitimacy” with the fans and detractors. Hell, “smart mark” books like Fall Guys were already being published by the 1930’s. Lewis used the same types of methods that Kurt Angle would have used to work audiences in the 90’s, but he did them better. Much better.

Strangler’s headlock sleeper was seen as the first “true” KO move in wrestling. If he had you in it, his opponent lost almost immediately [there were no tap outs back then.] As the years went on he began to put others over because many got skilled enough to counter this “ultimate move” to the point where he’d have to use it 5 or 6 times to put someone away or gain one fall. This is exactly how Cena put Lesnar over as damn near unbeatable at NOC where it took 4 AA’s to wear him down for a possible 3 count. Strangler was able to make non wrestlers and rookies into wrestling gods by having them go over him. Even later in life when he was blind.

For the TL;DR version of this argument ----> Strangler was a better wrestler than Angle. Strangler was a better showman and performer than Angle. Strangler didn’t need steroids to make himself appear strong as fuck. He just was. Angle wrestled with a broken freakin’ neck, but Strangler wrestled with a broken freakin’ cornea. Strangler was a better talker and worker than Angle. Strangler was more consistent as a top star and had more longevity. Strangler was a more popular star, and a much more successful champion. Strangler put countless wrestlers over despite only losing 30 times in his entire career. Strangler was far more important to the history of what would eventually become sports entertainment than Angle. Strangler only lost in kayfabe when he wanted to lose, so there’s no way in fuck he’d allow himself to be defeated in the second round in a tournament to crown the “greatest pro wrestler ever.”

Strangler deserves to win here. Vote with your head. Not with your heart. Let’s make this tournament different and mix things up a bit.

Vote Lewis.

 

[Tastycles]

Angle was and to a lesser extent still is a wonderful competitor, but the fact remains that for all of his in ring quality, he just doesn't feel like he belongs on the top shelf of wrestlers. It's hard to put my finger on why - he has titles, big wins and so forth, but I think a lot of it stems to that match he had with Big Show when the Big Show was dressed as Hulk Hogan. Show squashed him whilst taking the piss, and that simply would never happen to the very biggest wrestlers. Lewis was unquestionably the biggest wrestler of his time, and pretty much the first person I'd consider a pro wrestler in the modern mould. For me, Lewis wins.

 

[nightmare]

Has Ed Lewis ever hunted and captured a giant? I dont think so.

Kurt Angle wins.

 

[Bernkastel]

Actually he did. This man...

Munn beat the Strangler once, because Lewis allowed it in a moneymaking ploy. Making Munn look like Wrestling Jesus in the process. After Munn failed he never allowed it again and easily won all their future bouts. Angle's record against Big Show since you tried to make a point about Angle "hunting" giants is 31 - 48.

In addition to being easily better than Angle in every conceivable way, Lewis taught many students. Among them include Lou Thesz, Danny Hodge, and Gene Lebell - the guy who taught Chuck freakin' Norris.

Don't be stupid. Vote Lewis.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Munn may have been much taller than Lewis (8 inches) but he was also significantly lighter (35 pounds).

Big Show and Kurt Angle had five televised bouts and while Show edges these 3-2, the 'rubber' match was a DQ and the one time there was a belt on the line... Angle took it from Show.

How wrestling progressed is fascinating but to vote for a guy who has much of his reputation through fear and intimidation both inside and outside the ring is just wrong. Lewis got to were he was by being part of the Gold Rush Trio who bullied to a level even VKM couldn't. A prime example of this was forcing Jim Landos out of the North East only to bring him back for one reason... he couldn't draw there without him. I'm sure his tough guy rep was justified... but the fact that legitimately beating him would be the equivalent of career suicide didn't hurt either.

Kurt Angle has a who's who of legends he has beaten when it matters. He has beaten the Rock, Austin, Big Show, Brock Lesnar and Sting for recognized World Championships. He was the first WCW World Champion post Invasion and he is the only guy to ever make Hulkamania tap! In fact just check who all has slapped the ring for Kurt...

[YOUTUBE]87CxBxGsckQ[/YOUTUBE]​

And Kurt did all this without any possible screwjob scenarios or having the sway of a Lewis, Hogan, Austin or Cena.


Paint it anyway you like: I'll take the guy who carried on the progression that ran through the likes of Gotch, Lewis, Thesz, Gorgeous George, Hulk Hogan and SCSA because sports do evolve and no amount of politicking and TNA bashing will ever remove the fact that Kurt Angle is the perfect example of everything that makes a great 21st Century wrestler.

 

[Bernkastel]

Munn may have been much taller than Lewis (8 inches) but he was also significantly lighter (35 pounds).

Big Show and Kurt Angle had five televised bouts and while Show edges these 3-2, the 'rubber' match was a DQ and the one time there was a belt on the line... Angle took it from Show.

How wrestling progressed is fascinating but to vote for a guy who has much of his reputation through fear and intimidation both inside and outside the ring is just wrong. Lewis got to were he was by being part of the Gold Rush Trio who bullied to a level even VKM couldn't. A prime example of this was forcing Jim Landos out of the North East only to bring him back for one reason... he couldn't draw there without him. I'm sure his tough guy rep was justified... but the fact that legitimately beating him would be the equivalent of career suicide didn't hurt either.

Kurt Angle has a who's who of legends he has beaten when it matters. He has beaten the Rock, Austin, Big Show, Brock Lesnar and Sting for recognized World Championships. He was the first WCW World Champion post Invasion and he is the only guy to ever make Hulkamania tap! In fact just check who all has slapped the ring for Kurt...

[YOUTUBE]87CxBxGsckQ[/YOUTUBE]​

And Kurt did all this without any possible screwjob scenarios or having the sway of a Lewis, Hogan, Austin or Cena.


Paint it anyway you like: I'll take the guy who carried on the progression that ran through the likes of Gotch, Lewis, Thesz, Gorgeous George, Hulk Hogan and SCSA because sports do evolve and no amount of politicking and TNA bashing will ever remove the fact that Kurt Angle is the perfect example of everything that makes a great 21st Century wrestler.

Couple of things here...

A.) Nobody could draw like Jim Londos could. I seriously doubt Hogan/Austin/Rock could. And certainly not without a massive marketing machine behind them. So that's not a knock on Lewis. In fact it's impressive that despite Londos being the undisputed world champion, and the most popular wrestling star in the world at the time, the fans refused to take him seriously as the "best" until he defeated the Strangler. That's how over and revered Lewis was. Like Hogan. Fans would not have taken Rock or Austin seriously as the "best" unless one of them beat Hogan. And even then fans booed Rock over Hogan.

B.) The documentations of Strangler's politicking and manipulation demonstrate how truly great he was at not only manipulating the fans to respond to him however he wanted them to respond, but other promoters, sports writers, radio hosts, and the Athlete commission as well. That's how you know how damn good he was. And he could back it up when you look at the numbers he drew. This IS pro wrestling after all. Hogan used these methods to keep himself on top for years. And fans don't necessarily treat him like a terrible person. No, we treat him like one of the greatest ever. Lewis was a part of wrestling until he died. Even when he went totally blind he was still apart of the industry.

Kurt Angle does represent evolution. But so do John Cena and CM Punk. Are they better than Hogan and Austin in comparison? No, they aren't. So why would Angle be better than the Strangler just because he worked in modern times? Angle doesn't draw better than Lewis. He wasn't a better worker than Lewis. He wasn't a better businessman than Lewis. He didn't revolutionize the industry or set it on fire like Lewis.

 

[stingray11214]

People have to realize something: Angle got nailed in the Wellness issue. He has had problems with drugs and alcohol his entire career. Had he NOT been haunted by the wellness issue, he would NEVER have left the E on such bad terms. Lewis' legacy is light years stronger than Angle's ever will be. Granted, Angle has that Gold medal and NCAA accomplishments. However, on the professional level, Strangler Lewis is Gulliver to Angle's Liliput. Lewis wins easily.

 

[nightmare]

Actually he did. This man...

Munn beat the Strangler once, because Lewis allowed it in a moneymaking ploy. Making Munn look like Wrestling Jesus in the process. After Munn failed he never allowed it again and easily won all their future bouts. Angle's record against Big Show since you tried to make a point about Angle "hunting" giants is 31 - 48.

In addition to being easily better than Angle in every conceivable way, Lewis taught many students. Among them include Lou Thesz, Danny Hodge, and Gene Lebell - the guy who taught Chuck freakin' Norris.

Don't be stupid. Vote Lewis.

Tranquilizer dart > Sleeper Hold.


Fact.


Kurt Angle gives no fucks & strangles the ankle for a round two victory.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

This is tough for me. Lewis is one of the single most important wrestler's of all time. If you want the details, I suggest scorlling up to Ech's posts or using wikipedia. I don't think Kurt Angle is mone of the most important wrestler's of all time, but I do think he's one of the best...if that makes sense. Angle's the kind of guy who bridges generations. Bruno often remarks that Angle was his favourite wrestler during his wilderness year's away from WWE and I don't doubt that Thesz and Lewis would've shared a similar viewpoint. Angle's great in any generation, anywhere in the world.

So really for me it comes down to a simple question: quality or significance? Last round I posed a similar question for Tanahashi and Inoki and the latter won. I get the feeling that the younger man is who will win, but I'm open to being swayed...