WWE Favors Big Men -- Bit Dated, No?

[The Crock]

I honestly think the whole idea that WWE only caters to bigger guys is a little dated, is it not? The top guys in the WWE, their world champions (CM Punk, Daniel Bryan), are both cruiserweights, as are many other members of the roster (Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, Christian, Rey Mysterio, Kofi Kingston, etc.), so why do so many people in the IWC have this perception that little guys are overlooked? Yes, Vince loves his musclebound body builder types, but it's clear that he doesn't push them to the top of the card over all others. If he really favored big men as much as people on the Internet believe, then wouldn't Mason Ryan and Ezekiel Jackson be top guys? Sure, he may try to push big men -- but if it doesn't work out, he won't force it.

So, my question is, do you think the WWE HONESTLY favors big men? If so, why? This isn't a question of Vince McMahon's personal preference, but of the WWE product as a whole.

For years now, even since the 90's, little men have had success, but in the last decade it's become the absolute norm for a little man to be at the top of the card. I mean, Benoit, Guerrero, Michaels, Jericho -- these guys are "little" by wrestling standards, but they were all at the top of the mountain. To put it simply, I think WWE favors anybody who can entertain. Whether it be John Cena or CM Punk; if they're good at their job, they can have success in the WWE. This isn't the 1980's, this isn't the era of Hogan and Warrior. The little man has become the standard.

What do you guys think? Does the WWE (think about the product) favor big men or not?

 

[Defekt]

You can't really differentiate between the WWE's tastes and Vince's tastes. He runs the company and makes all the decisions. I think Vince favors big guys, as there is a long history of big guys coming in and getting huge pushes. But as you said, if the crowd doesn't respond, they don't force it.

The WWE has alot of smaller guys in top positions because those guys consistently put on good matches, and got over with the crowd.

But alot of the roster is still traditional big guys (Kane, Sheamus, Cena, Randy Orton, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc).

Believe me, if CM Punk was 6'6, weighed 270, and had the same mic and ring skills, it wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get to the top of the company. The Great Khali doesn't speak English and can barely walk, yet still got a massive push.

 

[The Crock]

But alot of the roster is still traditional big guys (Kane, Sheamus, Cena, Randy Orton, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc).

Believe me, if CM Punk was 6'6, weighed 270, and had the same mic and ring skills, it wouldn't have taken him 5 years to get to the top of the company. The Great Khali doesn't speak English and can barely walk, yet still got a massive push.

Yes, but those big men are all very talented and good at what they do. I also wouldn't really label Kane or Mark Henry as "traditional." They're anomalies. How many people have you seen that stand at around 7 feet tall and over 300 pounds, or in Big Show's case, 400 pounds? There NEEDS to be traditional big guys, but the roster isn't completely made up of them and the product isn't dominated by them.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, if CM Punk was 6'6" and 270 pounds, he would have definitely made his way up quicker... Then again, how many guys in the WWE do you see at that size? Khali, again, is an anomaly. He's the type of guy that you can push just based on look and uniqueness. After his main push, I don't recall him ever being at the top of the card again. He didn't have huge success and the WWE didn't push it. He's good in a specialized role, but I think he deserved that push, just based on pure physical stature.

 

[bk555]

I dont know about this but i guess you are right. The days of Hogan, Ultimate, Warrior, and Lesnar being on top are over. My one problem is that guys like Punk and Bryan dont have the believability that Hogan and Warrior had. When you looked at Warrior or even Stone Cold you thought "He can really kick someones ass" I rarely ever think that with Punk and Bryan. This idea of marketability is incredibily important in the wrestling industry and the bottomline is built guys get over more than guys who are agile and high flying or athletic. CM Punk took so damn long for people to realize his talents. And the big guys like Cena, Lesnar, and Rock were given opportunities right away based on size. I can immediately think of a guy like Bill Goldberg who had very little in ring experience and very little talent at that matter. Goldberg was given the opportunity of a lifetime and subesquently ran with it until people realized he sucked.

 

[FanSince85]

I really wouldn't call Cena a traditional big man. If that's the case the WWF/E loved the big man. Here are 3 "big men" and you can use those stats and compare to the other guys who weighed about the same.

Ricky Steamboat 5'10 - 235
Mr Perfect around 6'3 - 235-240 or so
John Cena is probably 6' - 240
Hell Jake Roberts was 6'5 or so and weighed as much as the rest and I wouldn't call him a big man either.

The real big men were people like Big John Studd, Andre, Taker, Kane, Show, Sid, Nash, Vader, and guys like that. Or are you defining "big" as being in shape or tall?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Unfortunately these conversation tend to devolve in to semantics over what defines a "big guy" (height, weight, muscle mass, muscle definition) and what defines the "top guys" (champion, draw, crowd response, publicity).

The WWE landscape has certainly changed somewhat over the past 30 years but I don't think it is all that different. Size and look are still the most important element to success but they are not the only elements of success and one can succeed without having size and look.

If I had to rank the most important characteristics to succeed in WWE I would go with the following:

1. Look
2. Size
3. Charisma
4. Mic Skiils
5. Character/Gimmick
6. Ring Ability
7. Legacy
(Maybe ranking these characteristics could be it's own thread like a power ranking and we could tabulate the results. Can anyone think of other characteristics that I missed (like banging the Chairman's daughter)?)

Not everyone has the top two but if you can separate yourself with other characteristics (like Daniel Bryan and Christian have) you can still be successful. Maybe not just the "top guy".

 

[DeathClutch]

WWE still holds the old school mentality that bigger is better which isn't the case, WCW's cruiserweight division highlighted that fact, in WWE Shawn Michaels was somewhat of a rarity when he was given the opportunity probably based on his fan base and that Bret was taken time off, Nash and Hall went to WCW and Taker was pretty much set for a feud with Mankind so Shawn was giving the ball to run with it, facing Bulldog, Vader, Mankind and Sid, all bigger and badder guys than him, it's a good storyline.

Nowadays WWE should follow suit of MMA or UFC and allow EVERYONE to flurish at their own devices, and if that means the Evan Bourne is getting a bigger reaction than XYZ heavyweight then run with Evan and the Cruiserweight belt and if that out shines the WWE championship for a time being than so what? it's still making money.

WWE cut their nose off to spite their face at times.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

In my lifetime along(I'm 21) I witnessed one of the instances of true skill break through looks. No one thought that Shawn Michaels could hold that belt and he be believable but he did it. Even after it happened the creative staff wasn't convinced. A big reason that DX came about was so he could have a numbers advantage over big men like The Undertaker. Like you said though the "little guys" are getting more of a push in today's wrestling.

I think one of the reasons that that perception still exists is because they have a guy like Khali who is pretty poor on the ring and barely speak English yet he continue to get a fairly big push because of his size.

Then you have guys who have gotten their push and failed but still stuck around because of their look. Look at Chris Masters a short while ago. By most standards he was fairly poor in the ring and his mic skills weren't great but he still stuck around in a fairly big role until towards the end when the steroid and wellness violations became more numerous.

Even Sheamus, who is ok in the ring and can cut passable promos, won the strap from Cena in like 3 months

Its good to have monster types and to have some guys with a good physique, it helps making suspending disbelief easier when you see guys like that winning matches, but its good to see the smaller guys get their push

 

[DrMantisToboggan]

It's not that he will force the big guys down your throat if they aren't getting over but he will definitely give a huge bodybuilder type an initial push before he will a guy like Punk or Bryan, in most cases of course.

 

[CrunKSinatrA]

WWE definitely favors big men. The main reason I believe that cruiserweights like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are the heavyweight champions is because of the Balco investigations from a few years ago and the fallout from the Benoit tragedy.

In the 90s, when the 1st steroid scandal hit, Vince steered away from the Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior types. Even the British Bulldog left the WWE during the fallout. This in turn paved the way for Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to move into the main event picture.

Once the dust had settled, Vince went back to big men. No one can convince me otherwise that HHH was not juicing during his peak. I heard this story that the WWE was trying to force Scott Steiner to take a steroid drug test, but Scott Steiner refused unless HHH and he would go take the test together. Poppa Pump even offered to pay for a limo. Needless to say, Steiner did not have to take the test.

Then the steroid scandal from the Barry Bonds/Balco investigations hit. I do remember non-heavyweights like Edge and Rey Mysterio were on the Balco list, and that the list did not differentiate from steroid abusers and prescription steroid patients. But Rey definitely had a little extra "help" at the gym and I believe Batista was also on the list amongst other big names.

I would not say that the WWE was severely affected by the Balco investigations, but the Benoit tragedy definitely brought the spotlight back on the WWE. In the wake of the tragedy, having steroid fueled gorillas wrestle for the WWE title is not good PR.

Now, we get to see Daniel Bryan and CM Punk put on wrestling clinics against each other. But once enough time has past, you better believe Punk and Bryan are only keeping the belt warm for when Mason Ryan learns to work the stick or brings Paul Heyman on as a hype man.

 

[Police Penis Sucking Goat Fucker]

WWE doesn't really know what real wrestlers are. It shouldn't matter with size it should matter about how you perform in the ring. I never understood WWE no sense guide book to how to become a superstar. Most of these juice heads Vince loves are slow and boring to watch. Look at Eddie Guerrero before he became WWE champion and look at him when he became champ you will notice a huge size difference. That’s why Vince ends up killing most of his wrestlers because the smaller guys know that they will never get the proper push that they deserve because of their body when they can out wrestle any of these big guys. So they start juicing up to get bigger Vince McMahon gets away with murder all the time. Personally I think these big juice heads look disgusting. I don't know why anyone would ever want to look like Batista, Ultimate Warrior, or Scott Steiner to me there bodies just look terrible there all bulky and veiny.

I'd much rather watch guys like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, and Samoa Joe. Two good examples of why looks shouldn't matter are Bam Bam Bigelow and Low Ki. Two of the best wrestlers ever to be in the business. Bam Bam was huge and could move so quickly and fly in the ring. Low Ki may look like a little guy but he is one of the strongest wrestlers today and he has a lot of heart which is another important quality WWE doesn't care about. People put down CM Punk for looking too small saying he can't kick anyone’s ass but everyone forgets about his extensive martial arts back round. It's not the size that wins the fight it's if you know how to fight that wins the fight.

Nobody wants to see Mason Ryan Ezekiel Jackson David Ottunga people want real wrestlers. In ROH most of the best wrestlers aren’t these huge guys but there in amazing shape and real athletes unlike most of the WWE locker room. WWE has never really followed a very important rule that we were all taught when we were young and a rule we should all follow and that's Don't judge a book by its cover. In WWE the two most important qualities to be a legend you need to have gross juice head body or sleep with the boss’s daughter, wrestling ability isn’t that important.

 

[Nada]

Ofcourse its dated, reason being that in the 70s and 80s a physique of a big man with muscles was rather unique.

Today however more people go to gyms, we are more used to people looking that in everyday life and there is more knowledge how to achieve it. Thus it is no longer special or unique. When your entire roster look like models, Orton, Cena, Ziggler, Ryder, Ary, Miz it becomes less special when everyone looks the same.

The key to wrestling roster is diversity, offering something for everyone. Orton only looks special if he is near a guy like Brodus or Husky Harris. Having a varied roster is how you get the big ratings where each wrestler is meant to target a different audience.

 

[anthonymclaughlin]

In fighting sports weight classes are their for a reason, Floyd Mayweather is not going to beat Vitali Klitschko regardless of skill or ability the weight and reach difference would make for an unfair and dangerous fight. This is not to say that a big man will always beat a small man or would put on a more entertaining match, but most people would look at a guy like taker v and a guy d-bryan and put their lifesaving's on taker, it's just what comes naturally to us.

 

[Daniel]

WWE favours big men because the fans, on the whole, favour big men. The fans cheer for the guys who show impressive feats of strength, or even wrestlers who are simply huge. Therefore, they're more likely to but into them. Vince McMahon's personal preference doesn't really come into it. Simply put, it's hard to blame WWE for pushing the Lesnars and the Great Khalis when the evidence is there - big guys draw.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Not only is it a bit dated but it isn't exactly entirely accurate.

I only started posting online about 3 years ago and when I heard phrases like "Vince only likes big guys" or "WWE only pushes guys with big muscles", I noticed that the comments seemed to be directed more towards Batista than anyone else at the time. The phrase "WWE favors big men" doesn't really make all that much sense when you look at the overall history of the company.

Despite internet propoganda to the contrary, wrestlers that've had the physiques coupled with the size of Batista, Triple H, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior and a few others haven't just poured out of the sky like rain. All of these wrestlers have gotten major pushes in the past, so that's enough for some to conclude that Vince only cares about bigger guys. However, the theory falters when you take into account the fact that all of these wrestlers have also drawn lots of money for Vince. I've never been a big fan of Batista and I couldn't stand Ultimate Warrior, but my dislike of them doesn't negate the fact that both of them were hugely over with the crowds and were big draws. They were over and drew money because a lot more fans were digging what they were doing & what they were about than there were fans who weren't.

I think talent and the simple ability to draw is mostly what Vince looks for. After all, big guys like Mason Ryan, Ezekiel Jackson & Great Khali are all impressive physical specimens that've gotten solid to massive pushes in the past. Come to find out, they shouldn't have been pushed because they simply didn't have the talent. Sometimes, guys will get pushed that probably shouldn't. It's always happened in wrestling and will always happen at some point. The reason why the likes of Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Undertaker & Sheamus have all gotten pushes or are currently getting pushes is because they've been talented individuals that've made good on opportunities given to them. At some point, a wrestler has to sink or swim on his own merits. A push can only put a wrestler into position, then they have to use their abilities to get over with fans. Making a wrestler into a star isn't some sort of proven science. If it was, then every company would be able to create one mega star after another with no problems whatsoever. Just doesn't work that way.

As I've said in other posts, look at stars that've gotten or are currently signifigant pushes: Pedro Morales, Bob Backlund, Macho Man Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase(Sr.), Curt Hennig, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Kofi Kingston, Dolph Ziggler, Zack Ryder, Edge, Christian, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, The Miz, Rey Mysterio, John Morrison, and the list goes on. Most of these wrestlers I just listed are revered legends or current stars that've all gotten substantial pushes in their careers. None of these guys could really be viewed as "big guys" in their primes. Legitimately, most of these wrestlers weigh in the 210-230 pound range and, again, most of them are around the 6 foot mark in terms of height. A few like Edge & Orton are a bit taller, but they're not the physical beasts like Warrior or Batista or Hogan or Lesnar.

If a wrestler is talented and happens to be a big guy, there's nothing wrong with that at all in my eyes. Just because a wrestler is big and/or muscular doesn't mean he can't be talented, just as a guy that's 5'8 and weighs 170 pounds that can do all the flips & fancy flops all over the ring doesn't mean he is talented.

 

[Shotaro]

I think that Vince McMahon favors big guys. WWE pretty much bends to VKM's whim, however recently every champion would be in the heavyweight bracket (admittedly on the light end of it but still over 200lbs is a heavyweight.)

The difference is the build. VKM seems to want his top guys to be ripped. I don't think he's into big builds as much as good physiques. The only exceptions are the monsters like Big Show, Mark Henry and Kane.

 

[PlayTheGame]

Not only is it a bit dated but it isn't exactly entirely accurate.

I only started posting online about 3 years ago and when I heard phrases like "Vince only likes big guys" or "WWE only pushes guys with big muscles", I noticed that the comments seemed to be directed more towards Batista than anyone else at the time. The phrase "WWE favors big men" doesn't really make all that much sense when you look at the overall history of the company.

Despite internet propoganda to the contrary, wrestlers that've had the physiques coupled with the size of Batista, Triple H, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior and a few others haven't just poured out of the sky like rain. All of these wrestlers have gotten major pushes in the past, so that's enough for some to conclude that Vince only cares about bigger guys. However, the theory falters when you take into account the fact that all of these wrestlers have also drawn lots of money for Vince. I've never been a big fan of Batista and I couldn't stand Ultimate Warrior, but my dislike of them doesn't negate the fact that both of them were hugely over with the crowds and were big draws. They were over and drew money because a lot more fans were digging what they were doing & what they were about than there were fans who weren't.

I think talent and the simple ability to draw is mostly what Vince looks for. After all, big guys like Mason Ryan, Ezekiel Jackson & Great Khali are all impressive physical specimens that've gotten solid to massive pushes in the past. Come to find out, they shouldn't have been pushed because they simply didn't have the talent. Sometimes, guys will get pushed that probably shouldn't. It's always happened in wrestling and will always happen at some point. The reason why the likes of Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Undertaker & Sheamus have all gotten pushes or are currently getting pushes is because they've been talented individuals that've made good on opportunities given to them. At some point, a wrestler has to sink or swim on his own merits. A push can only put a wrestler into position, then they have to use their abilities to get over with fans. Making a wrestler into a star isn't some sort of proven science. If it was, then every company would be able to create one mega star after another with no problems whatsoever. Just doesn't work that way.

As I've said in other posts, look at stars that've gotten or are currently signifigant pushes: Pedro Morales, Bob Backlund, Macho Man Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase(Sr.), Curt Hennig, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Kofi Kingston, Dolph Ziggler, Zack Ryder, Edge, Christian, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, The Miz, Rey Mysterio, John Morrison, and the list goes on. Most of these wrestlers I just listed are revered legends or current stars that've all gotten substantial pushes in their careers. None of these guys could really be viewed as "big guys" in their primes. Legitimately, most of these wrestlers weigh in the 210-230 pound range and, again, most of them are around the 6 foot mark in terms of height. A few like Edge & Orton are a bit taller, but they're not the physical beasts like Warrior or Batista or Hogan or Lesnar.

If a wrestler is talented and happens to be a big guy, there's nothing wrong with that at all in my eyes. Just because a wrestler is big and/or muscular doesn't mean he can't be talented, just as a guy that's 5'8 and weighs 170 pounds that can do all the flips & fancy flops all over the ring doesn't mean he is talented.

I think Jack-Hammer hit it right on the head and provided some solid examples as well. I agree with him- I think that sweeping generalization that Vince only wants to push big guys is very inaccurate. But, for the sake of argument, let's say Vince does favor bigger athletes and tries to push them a bit more... it's not like he does it at the expense of the smaller guys, or keeps them down because of it. As previously mentioned, Vince doesn't hesitate to push smaller guys, as long as they have talent (HBK, Jericho, Edge, Mysterio, Punk, etc.). So even if Vince absolutely loves larger athletes, he doesn't let that sentiment cloud his judgment and let it prevent him from simply choosing the right guys to push at any given time.

A very popular argument of people who believe Vince only drools over big guys and wants to push them involves the Great Khali's championship run. I agree, it was a bit too soon, a bit undeserving, and it didn't really go anywhere. In hindsight, it was probably a bad decision. But even though Vince pushed Khali, a 7 foot giant, remember, this is the same guy who also questionably pushed Mysterio, well under 6 feet. In other words, for every "example" of a big guy that Vince has pushed, there's a smaller guy that negates it.

Also, look at it this way. In the 70's, 80's, and some of the 90's, most professional wrestlers were physical beasts. Now, unless you think Vince personally went around to every training gym around the country and actually injected all of them with steroids himself, then you have to realize that it was just the nature of the times back then- pro wreslters did 'roids, got big, and got pushed. Now, in 2012, the wrestling landscape is much different, and a lot of guys don't do 'roids. Now, the landscape consists of some physical beasts, but also a lot of "normal" size guys as well, and now both "sizes" get pushed. So, in other words, you can't just say it was Vince's doing back then- that was just the crop of pro wrestlers in that era, and now that the era is different, guys of all sizes are getting pushed based on talent. Now, if only big guys were still getting pushed in this day and age, then I'd say you have a point. But the fact that guys of all sizes get pushed now proves that Vince adjusted with the times, and his booking was largely a result of the times.

 

[Alastor]

Big men are easier to push than smaller wrestlers, giving rise to this notion that Vince favour big men over anything else. You put Great Khali in the ring and he immediately commands your attention even though his in ring skills leave a lot to be desired. You put a smaller man with the same ability as the Great Khali and it will be a total disaster. Austin isn't a small man either. Neither was the Rock.

If you were a promoter would you not want to work with the easier option of pushing bigger wrestlers with a decent set of skills rather than push a supremely talented cruserweight that has a lower odds of being a success?