WWE - Best for Business?!

[OldSchoolWrestlingFan]

In a previous thread there was some very heated debate about the state of WWE & the quality of booking/matches they are giving. Some vehemently defended WWE, while others (including myself) discussed the disgust with the product & a fondness for lesser known Talent/Agencies.

One post made it very clear & helped me realize something that I've never really thought about - WWE isn't a wrestling program, it's a TV show (entertainment or a soap opera in a ring) that involves wrestlers & matches & the reason many of us "Old School" fans are disappointed is because we grew up on Wrestling Programs where matches had to carry the product - Product (movies, shirts, etc) didn't match the matches/wrestlers.

At the end of one of the posts somebody said thst Vince will continue to do what's best for business - if that's cater to kids, push merchandise, whatever it is - but my question is.......HOW IS GIVING POOR MATCHES/STORY LINES BEST FOR BUSINESS? Nobody can answer that question!

Let me get a few things out of the way for you WWE MARKS - YES, I DO CHANGE THE CHANNEL & DONT WATCH - I will flip back from time to time to see if anything interesting happens (Hahahahahaha, yeah right) but overall I have disconnected from the WWE product & am leaning toward smaller agencies like Lucha Underground. I also can hear some of your Marks - what about the ZIGGLER Matches, What about the Bryan Matches.....Sure WWE gives a good match from time to time but that doesn't mean the product OVERALL is good! (Having better names/talent doesn't automatically mean better product)

Again my question is......HOW IS GIVING FANS POOR MATCHES BEST FOR BUSINESS?! And you might be asking me Why do you like Lucha Underground.....here's why!
[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/2osh6NI1drU[/YOUTUBE]

Soooooooo WWE puts on the best matches huh?! OOPS!

 

[OYDK]

At the end of one of the posts somebody said thst Vince will continue to do what's best for business - if that's cater to kids, push merchandise, whatever it is - but my question is.......HOW IS GIVING POOR MATCHES/STORY LINES BEST FOR BUSINESS? Nobody can answer that question!

You act as if WWE is putting on the worst garbage in history. You're an old school wrestling fan, right? What the hell is the difference between WWE now and WWE 30 years ago? The difference is the matches back than were plain HORRENDOUS, so don't give me that crap about matches being poor today. Off the top of my head I can name about 20 WWE wrestlers that can put on a quality match with almost anyone. Just because a story line or match is poor to you, doesn't mean it's poor to everybody, get that through your head.

Let me get a few things out of the way for you WWE MARKS - YES, I DO CHANGE THE CHANNEL & DONT WATCH - I will flip back from time to time to see if anything interesting happens (Hahahahahaha, yeah right) but overall I have disconnected from the WWE product & am leaning toward smaller agencies like Lucha Underground. I also can hear some of your Marks - what about the ZIGGLER Matches, What about the Bryan Matches.....Sure WWE gives a good match from time to time but that doesn't mean the product OVERALL is good! (Having better names/talent doesn't automatically mean better product)

Good for you. Now all you have to do is stop posting about WWE on this site, and stick to the products you like. It's not hard unless you just secretly love agitating people.

One post made it very clear & helped me realize something that I've never really thought about - WWE isn't a wrestling program, it's a TV show (entertainment or a soap opera in a ring) that involves wrestlers & matches & the reason many of us "Old School" fans are disappointed is because we grew up on Wrestling Programs where matches had to carry the product - Product (movies, shirts, etc) didn't match the matches/wrestlers.

Well, there's your answer isn't it? As much as you may hate it, WWE is no longer a "wrestling" program, it's an entertainment program. That means that they rely a hell of a lot more on the entertainment aspect than the wrestling, which means we get to hear "old school wrestling fans" such as yourself bitch about it every single day. This is "best for business" because through it's use of entertainment WWE can cater to the general population instead of just strictly, wrestling fans, which brings in a ton of more revenue from the casual audience and sponsors. As a fan, you may hate it, but if it makes money, it's best for business.

Soooooooo WWE puts on the best matches huh?! OOPS!

I find it hard to believe you're "old school" when you act like such a child.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I agree that some of the booking decisions over the past half year or so haven't exactly blown my skirt up. I'm of the opinion that in terms of the mind set of many modern fans, Vince McMahon is out of touch and becomes more so with each passing year. I think that Vince is very much into a "sports entertainment" frame of mind right now, and has been for the last 6 months or so, more than he has been over the past few years and it generally shows on television. When fans see what's going on in NXT in terms of overall booking and storytelling, they know they're not seeing that sort of consistent quality on the main roster with Vince McMahon ultimately making the final creative calls. It becomes all the more obvious to more & more fans as they subscribe to the WWE Network or watch from a friend's/relative's house or use said person's account to see for themselves. I think it's being shown in terms of ratings as Raw's numbers have been pretty weak, comparatively speaking, with the same time period in recent years. During the first 6 months of the year, Raw has, for many years, drawn in the mid 4 to low 5 million range in terms of live viewership, though it's down to right at about 4 million now.

From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem like it'd be difficult to bring that sort of consistency to the main roster. I know NXT is only an hour show and there's still some doubt as to whether it can be pulled off with as much success if it moves to 2 hours, which I think will probably happen if NXT is able to become its own successful touring brand. If that happens and they're still able to keep the winning formula that's currently being used, there won't be anymore excuses to use as a crutch as to why a lot of people are preferring NXT to the main roster right now.

While the product, as a whole, isn't spectacular, I feel it's a lot better than it was during WrestleMania season, which is ironic considering that WWE's usually firing on all cylinders during the first third of the year.

Seth Rollins as WWE World Heavyweight Champion is refreshing and we know he has the ability, I personally wish he didn't come off so much like a whiny bitch sometimes. At the same time, it's nice to have the World Champion back on television rather than popping up ever 3 or 4 months.

The overall mid-card title scene has more interest going for it now than it has in quite a long time with Cena as United States Champion and if Bryan is still able to compete via altering his in-ring style to some degree, he could potentially elevate the Intercontinental Championship to a level that hasn't been seen in over a decade. We know John Cena isn't going to be treated as a chump and if Bryan can get over this bump in the road, he could do a lot for the title and vice versa.

Diva matches and the division as a whole looks to be slowly improving as the ladies have generally been given a good deal more time to wrestle and the storylines aren't coming off like something in a bad teen movie. It's not perfect and there's still work to do and AJ Lee retiring is a significant blow, but they SEEM to be headed in the right direction.

The tag team scene is pretty weak right now, though I honestly think it could be brought up to snuff with a few minor tweaks to the likes of New Day & The Ascension while scrapping the Los Matadores gimmick. I also believe that Harper & Rowan should be reunited, they were a great big man team and I seriously think those few minor tweaks could really strengthen things.

Fans are responding really well so far to the fresh faces of The Lucha Dragons a Neville. If Vince is looking for the next Rey Mysterio, I think Kalisto's it but teaming with Sin Cara is a good spot right now. Neville's athleticism is damn near superhuman and if he can connect with fans as a character to match up with his matches, he could go really far.

 

[OldSchoolWrestlingFan]

Hahahaha - I love reading posts/replies from you hardcore WWE marks. All of you are the exact same - you regurgitate the same answers & replies that you've spewed a million time before & take no time to truly consider what the post is saying or how your response makes you appear.

I love how you continue to defend this multi-billion dollar company (I guess that is till true even though their stocks & profits continue to fall even though you Marks says the WWE is just as good - - OOPS) as if you have some personal investment. Just because you dress like Cena, with your Replica $400 belt, buy every game & have "action figures" on your wall/shelf doesn't mean you have anything to do with WWE - Hahaha!

I love setting back and watching the idiocy unfold!

P.S. It's Great being a Heel - Why?! because we get to have all of the fun (Quote from Paul Orndorf)

 

[Fillet Club]

Let me get a few things out of the way for you WWE MARKS - YES, I DO CHANGE THE CHANNEL & DONT WATCH - I will flip back from time to time to see if anything interesting happens (Hahahahahaha, yeah right)

Well then the question is why on earth are you watching it in the first place? If the product is that bad, then just stop watching it altogether. And then maybe you can stop posting your bilge within the WWE section on this forum.

There's never a discussion with you is there? Your opinion is the only one that's valid to you. Whenever good counterpoints are raised you respond with nothing but insults and childish bollocks. Grow up, stop watching WWE "becuz itz teh wurzt" and make a positive contribution for once.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I think the wrestling aspect is as good as ever. At least on the men's side. Certain eras may have had more violence and daredevil crap on the rare occasion but if you don't wax nostalgic on those moments, I can easily say this roster is the best in ring as ever. There is a nice variety of styles and strengths coming from behind the curtain. The guys seem to have amazing cardio.

Sure, maybe the booking feels off now and again but I guess I don't pay enough attention to really care. In real sports teams and people both win and lose. Some of my favorite teams lose more often than they win (hello Bills, Sabers, and Cubs).

I think where WWE is failing and the OP is ashamed to admit is in the creative department. The storylines, writing, and promos are not all that enjoyable. I didn't bother to watch Mania. Reigns was a flop on the mic. Bray Wyatt is a chore to listen to. Sting's story choppy. Not seeing UT at all was mind boggling. Orton's return was nonsense.

But this is all OK. I understand WWE does not cater to me and they have thousands of other fans that will give them more money than I ever will. They should cater to those people. It is better for business than catering to me.

Edit - never mind, the OP is just a troll without anything relevant to say. Sad.

 

[Navi]

Hahahaha - I love reading posts/replies from you hardcore WWE marks. All of you are the exact same - you regurgitate the same answers & replies that you've spewed a million time before & take no time to truly consider what the post is saying or how your response makes you appear.

I love how you continue to defend this multi-billion dollar company (I guess that is till true even though their stocks & profits continue to fall even though you Marks says the WWE is just as good - - OOPS) as if you have some personal investment. Just because you dress like Cena, with your Replica $400 belt, buy every game & have "action figures" on your wall/shelf doesn't mean you have anything to do with WWE - Hahaha!

I love setting back and watching the idiocy unfold!

P.S. It's Great being a Heel - Why?! because we get to have all of the fun (Quote from Paul Orndorf)

And all of you "Oldschoolwrestlingfans" are the freaking same. "We hate the product today and the fans that watch it". Well you know what, fuck off back to the 80's and take your drivel with you.

Like the other poster said, if you don't like the product then don't watch it. That what adults do. You seem to have a problem more with the fans of the product than the product itself, which is insane, because what do you care what other's like and dislike.

The WWE is making a shitload of cash, and what they are putting out there sells to the masses. Is it good all the time, of course not, but was it ever good all the time. No there have been shit matches and wrestlers since the beginning. Time to take off your rose coloured glasses.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I started watching Wrestling around 1996/1997 and I watched it because I saw drama, suspense, and a story unfolding.

Now all I see Wrestling is a product where it's talent, stories, image everything right now needs to be aligned by the corporate direction. Really that's how I see the WWE.

Of course I am not saying this is not what is best for business heck I am sure a unified corporate strategy is ideally the way to appease stockholders and stakeholders alike. But Wrestling as a program that provided spontaneous drama, that seems long gone.

I mean the WWE seems to be catering an audience in which I am not involved and that's fine. I can still watch an occasional PPV or show if I see but the days of me following it religiously isn't there anymore.

 

[cornerdon26]

I have to agree with much of the original post. I got back into pro wrestling in 2011 just watching PPV's, then started watching RAW and Smackdown and now I have started watching other companies.

RAW is an awful long time, and late at night here in the UK, I now typically find it online the next day and watch sections which might appeal to me. This is typically a Heyman promo, a Wyatt promo and 1 or 2 matches. For 3 hours of programming that is awful.

I watch NXT and Lucha Underground on a weekly basis, along with all WWE PPV's. What personally concerns me is the match quality on weekly episodes of NXT and Lucha make most of the WWE PPV matchs look rubbish.

 

[Kamala316]

Interesting/good points made so far. Here's my take:

If you grew up during the Monday Night War (not the WWE Network's 'version' of the Monday Night War), you witnessed two companies trying to "one up" each other on a weekly basis, pushing the envelope, and each had to put out a good product in order to get ratings, make money, survive, etc. That time produced a great mix of wrestling, storytelling and entertainment. When WCW (and ECW) went under, WWE became a monopoly; they no longer had "real" competition. That's when the product went to crap, and that was about the time the "entertainment" aspect overshined the wrestling aspect, giving us today's product. As a long time fan, today's product sucks. But like many of you have said, today's WWE is "entertainment", not wrestling. It's a hard pill to swallow, but it's not going to change anytime soon. Even when Vince is gone, and Triple Leech (allegedly) takes the reins, it won't change. Lucha Underground and ROH put on great programs, but they're not the cash cow that WWE is. The main problem with WWE programming is they have their hands in so many baskets, they're completely spread thin, watering the product down. I'm sorry, but I'm not spending $40 to go to a house show, watch a dance off, and see Bo Dallas get pinned 3 times (out of 7 matches). Some of the performers on Raw and Smackdown don't even look/sound like they want to be there (i.e. - Kane, Big Show, Lawler). Even the WWE Network is stale now; it's almost like they came up with ideas for the launch, and didn't think about after the "glow" of something new wore off; it was just "Yay, we have their money now." Now, they're giving away months for free. Ultimately, the best way (if you're not happy with the product) to show WWE they need to step it up is to (like someone else said in this thread) change the channel, don't go to live events, and don't subscribe to the Network, all of which, I no longer do.

 

[FromGlasgow]

the difference between WWE now and WWE 30 years ago? The difference is the matches back than were plain HORRENDOUS,

Was the TV ratings, attendance at live events, PPV buys or merchandise sales also horrendous in the WWE 20-30 years ago? Or is this all just an opinion of an 8 year old who if I could guess has probably never seen wrestling beyond 3 years ago?
I can't understand the incessant hatred some of the iwc seem to have with wrestling several years ago, Nobody is forcing you to watch past wrestling matches so relax.

Same I guess can be said of wrestling today don't like don't watch, I always enjoy watching and never miss it around wrestlemania time the most but for me the one thing that does lack with todays product is deffinently the lack of competition, I think it works best when they have someone to actually compete against, steal talent from creating dream match scenarios as sadly I think Sting may be the last already over main event caliber wrestler to debut with the WWE.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

All of you are the exact same - you regurgitate the same answers & replies that you've spewed a million time before & take no time to truly consider what the post is saying or how your response makes you appear.

Are you sure you do not have us confused with yourself?


Because fools like you continue to profess on and on about promotions that have gone out of or are going out of business.

Meanwhile the WWE sets new records for income on both a company wide basis, but also often for the most gross revenue ever recorded for single events as well.

Not to mention house shows average 6,000+ for random weekly spot shows, while during 2015 they have averaged 6,500+. Not really much worse off than any other house show averages from any other era.


The WWE, and ESPECIALLY raw does not cater to YOU, or YOUR individual tastes, it caters to the entire spectrum of everyone they can reach....Which is why they are the most successful wrestling company in the history of the business, and continue to be so, and grow more and more. Even you yourself said that Bryan and Ziggler put on good matches, on those segments are meant to be "for you"....But the whole show isn't for you. In fact, people like you give WWE the LEAST money, so you are lucky to even get two segments.

You can scream at a brick wall all day long about how much the WWE sucks and you hate it, but by every measurable metric used in the wrestling business, you are simply wrong, and want them to cater to your individual tastes.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Meanwhile the WWE sets new records for income on both a company wide basis, but also often for the most gross revenue ever recorded for single events as well.

You can scream at a brick wall all day long about how much the WWE sucks and you hate it, but by every measurable metric used in the wrestling business, you are simply wrong, and want them to cater to your individual tastes.

A little invested in this topic are you?

I agree with you though that perhaps WWE is making more money than it ever is before. Why not? It's found a corporate strategy that has a Network, strategic merchandising, partnerships with sponsors, their use of social media, and their various WWE "spin off" shows like that new animated show by Seth Green and Total Divas.

Essentially while WWE has strengthened as a corporate brand but, as a consequence, it's quality as a Wrestling Promotion Show has suffered. Since their Wrestling shows has to be aligned by WWE as a brand.

Some examples over the recent years is having to push specific diva's because of their involvement in the total divas show, the PG direction the WWE took like the "no blood" policy it had for a while and guys like MVP not getting a push because of his previous criminal record, or recent bookings like Batista originally winning the WWE World Title because they felt it would give the WWE visibility if he became Champion.

So yeah if they feel this direction they are taking helps WWE as a corporate brand more than WWE as a Wrestling Show and they feel this is better for business then good for them.

I may not be that interested in WWE anymore but if they feel this is the best decision than I wish them the best.

 

[OYDK]

Was the TV ratings, attendance at live events, PPV buys or merchandise sales also horrendous in the WWE 20-30 years ago? Or is this all just an opinion of an 8 year old who if I could guess has probably never seen wrestling beyond 3 years ago?
I can't understand the incessant hatred some of the iwc seem to have with wrestling several years ago, Nobody is forcing you to watch past wrestling matches so relax.

Give me a fucking break. Take your oversensitive self to a different forum and take off the blinders while you're at it. If you think the wrestling matches in the 80s could match up with the matches today, than you've really lost your mind. The ONLY wrestlers on the WWE roster in the mid-80s who could put on consistently good matches night in and night out were; Snuka, Steamboat, Savage, Santana, Piper, and the British Bulldogs. I bet you still think Hogan/Andre was a 5 star wrestling match ... Also 20 years ago, WWE was producing some its worst financial numbers of all time... These are FACTS, not opinion. Just because I'm stating them doesn't mean I have an incessant hatred for old-school wrestling. All I said, was that the matches back than were relatively awful... and they were. After jumping all over me based off of one tiny remark about wrestling in the 80s, I think you're the one who should relax.

 

[FightOwensFight]

How is it good for business to run the company the way it is being run now? Because the business is successful. What is hard to see about that? It may not be what you want, so you are more than welcome to not watch, but plenty of people are. It is the highest rated show on USA and likely SyFy. NXT is an unequivocal success. The Network is well over 1,000,000 subscribers. The stock is down? So what. The stock went down hard after Wrestlemania, despite record numbers and increased Network subscribers, because it wasn't good enough for the analysts on Wall Street.

You can scream all you want about the product being crap and you can't see what anyone sees in WWE an go on watching Lucha Underground until it folds in 2 years. WWE will still be here, selling out Raw and Smackdown each week, getting good ratings, selling merchandise, expanding the Network, and putting out a consistently good (not great) product.

 

[Woodstuff]

Let me get a few things out of the way for you WWE MARKS - YES, I DO CHANGE THE CHANNEL & DONT WATCH - I will flip back from time to time to see if anything interesting happens (Hahahahahaha, yeah right) but overall I have disconnected from the WWE product & am leaning toward smaller agencies like Lucha Underground. I also can hear some of your Marks - what about the ZIGGLER Matches, What about the Bryan Matches.....Sure WWE gives a good match from time to time but that doesn't mean the product OVERALL is good! (Having better names/talent doesn't automatically mean better product)

It takes a special kind of moron to admit they've disconnected from a product, then go on to say they still go back and check whats happening from time to time. Are you really so lonely that you have to resort to watching (and posting online about) shows you don't like?

I hate Keeping Up With The Kardashians. So when I see it on the Sky planner, I skip past it. Why? Because I know I don't enjoy the product. Where as you see WWE, you probably roll your eyes because of how much the show "sucks", then you watch it anyway. Why not use the time you waste posting this garbage on WZ to do something you enjoy doing? You've said yourself, you've disconnected with WWE, you prefer Lucha Underground.

So go post about why YOU THINK Lucha Underground is better than WWE. That would be 100x more constructive than crying about how some people enjoy a show you don't like.

And as for the comment about how "having better names/talent doesn't automatically mean better product", what would make WWE a better product? Should they call you up every week and get booking tips? How about if you make a list of all your favourite wesslers and send it off to WWE, then thy can make sure they use the right guys and have all your favourites win!

Or maybe they should change the entire show to a 3 hour broadcast of you sucking Harley Race's 200 year old nut sack. Then you'd feel really connected to the show, and could invest emotionally in what you're seeing on screen.

 

[FromGlasgow]

These are FACTS, not opinion.

Your an idiot and thats a FACT, not opinion
If you don't like matches from several years ago thats your choice its a free country, Arrogant and immature to claim it as FACT that all wrestling was horrendous from beyond a couple of years ago. If its all so bad from that era its madness that have they even bothered putting it on the network.
Your argument of the Hogan Andre match was quite random? as that wasn't the only match that happend in the 80's its not even considered the greatest match of that card.