Wrestling "Retirements"

[Mighty NorCal]

This is mostly connected to the idiocy of all the people acting like is HBK looses at WM26, he is like, so totally gone forever.

A bit of education for you. NO ONE ever really "retires". Wrestlers ALWAYS come back, always, until they cannot physically do it anymore, or until no one has interest in them anymore. FUCK did we not just see Jimmy fucking Snuka looking like the Crypt Keeper last year at WM 25?

Wrestlers never really retire. They just become non active. get over it.

Question being, should they do this? Is it "annoying" as one poster put it? Should they retire, and stay gone?

Personally, I think it is NONE of our right to tell someone they should just go away. Fuck they already gave up a spot on the regular schedule, if they still have a means to make a living, fuck it.

Have any of you ever seen "The Wrestler" ??? a lot of these guys have NOTHING else, other than wrestling. A lot of them started this stuff in their late teens, or early 20s. No school, no nothing, besides this. I think its incredibly selfish, and downright bratty to tell those people to say"oh stay away" when the reason they CANT is becuase they spent their whole fucking adult life making the sacrifice for all of us fans.

You will hear people from ALL walks of live entertainment saying that preforming in front of a live crowd is like the ultimate drug. Should we begrudge these people who did all of this for us that time? I say absolutely not.

Wrestlers dont EVER actually retire. When HBK loses, he will be back. I, for one, will be happy to see him.

 

[Sparky]

That's what I said in the HBK thread. He will return look at Lita, JBL ect.

to answer your question, No they shouldn't stay gone. as you said, Some wrestlers only have wrestling, but they need time away either to recover from injury's or to spend time with the family. I think as long as there is no Send off (like Ric flairs) then they should be able to return anytime they want. but if they hype it up and sell a PPV by actually saying that it's *insert wrestlers name here* last match ever then they shouldn't return. look at all the people that woul of brought tickets simply for the fact that they return five years from now.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Yes, we know that wrestlers do DO this, we're not saying Shawn shouldn't because no one else has. The point is that wrestlers SHOULDN'T. It is so pointless, and stupid. Now of course, when Shawn loses, the inner-mark inside me will be begging for his return as soon as is possible. However, it annoys me when a wrestler does that, especially in a situation where he's lost his career at a BIG moment - and can you imagine a bigger moment than against The Undertaker at WM?

When I think of Flair now, most people have a bad thought about him because he stayed in the business longer than he was technically good enough to. I don't mind any of that, it bothers me that after the send-off he got, he returned. Seriously, what's the point? Is it so wrong to want stipulations upheld? If you retire someone, they retire. Otherwise what's the point in the match stipulation?

 

[Dagger Dias]

Great point NorCal. It usually doesn't bother me when a wrestler "retires" only to come back. If they want to keep doing something they love to do, then we as fans should respect that and let them keep performing until they are physically or mentally unable to. I did watch "The Wrestler" and it did make a good point about how wrestling truly is all some of these guys have. I completely agree that Shawn will most likely be back, regardless of how he does against Taker at Wrestlemania. That's just a stipulation thrown in by WWE to make more people interested in buying the PPV. In reality, if Shawn wants to come back.... he's going to come back. Us fans will be really happy when that happens, I know I will because he's one of my favorite wrestlers.

However, the one situation that these "retirements" does bug me, is Flair. They hyped it up for months that his career was over as soon as he lost a match, and then he got that huge send-off after losing at Wrestlemania 24. They should not have done the send-off OR the "career threatening match" if Flair was going to come out of "retirement". That tarnishes what was supposed to be a special moment to honor a legend. This issue does have two sides to it, Flair loves to wrestle and we should respect his decision if that's what he wants, but at the same time it does annoy several fans because they were given the impression that this "retirement" was real and actually going to last. In this particular scenario neither side is wrong, both are right for different reasons. My personal opinion is that wrestlers "retiring" isn't a big deal unless they get huge send-offs or a "final match" hyped up as being just that. That should only happen if they really are going into what will be their final match.

 

[HBK-aholic]

No they shouldn't stay gone. as you said, Some wrestlers only have wrestling, but they need time away either to recover from injury's or to spend time with the family. I think as long as there is no Send off (like Ric flairs) then they should be able to return anytime they want. but if they hype it up and sell a PPV by actually saying that it's *insert wrestlers name here* last match ever then they shouldn't return. look at all the people that woul of brought tickets simply for the fact that they return five years from now.

Great point NorCal. It usually doesn't bother me when a wrestler "retires" only to come back. If they want to keep doing something they love to do, then we as fans should respect that and let them keep performing until they are physically or mentally unable to. I did watch "The Wrestler" and it did make a good point about how wrestling truly is all some of these guys have. I completely agree that Shawn will most likely be back, regardless of how he does against Taker at Wrestlemania. That's just a stipulation thrown in by WWE to make more people interested in buying the PPV. In reality, if Shawn wants to come back.... he's going to come back. Us fans will be really happy when that happens, I know I will because he's one of my favorite wrestlers.

However, the one situation that these "retirements" does bug me, is Flair. They hyped it up for months that his career was over as soon as he lost a match, and then he got that huge send-off after losing at Wrestlemania 24. They should not have done the send-off OR the "career threatening match" if Flair was going to come out of "retirement". That tarnishes what was supposed to be a special moment to honor a legend. This issue does have two sides to it, Flair loves to wrestle and we should respect his decision if that's what he wants, but at the same time it does annoy several fans because they were given the impression that this "retirement" was real and actually going to last. In this particular scenario neither side is wrong, both are right for different reasons. My personal opinion is that wrestlers "retiring" isn't a big deal unless they get huge send-offs or a "final match" hyped up as being just that. That should only happen if they really are going into what will be their final match.

Just a simple point here, if you're not 'done' with wrestling, if you are going to return, if you simply need to nurse your injuries, or spend time with your family, don't have a match where the stipultion is your retirement, or your 'career'. Shawn will be taking time off after WM, as he has done before, in order to rehab himself, and spend time with the family. We've never needed him 'retiring' before, so why now?

I'm all for letting wresters do as they please, but with what happened with Flair, I think that was just disrespetful to McMahon AND the fans. Take time off, do as you please, return when you like, just don't say you're retired!

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Its for the buyrate. They throw that stip in there becuase MARKS continue to belive them for whatever reason. The retirment stip has NEVER actually meant "retire" it just means "go away for a while"

It is amazing on a site were people are supposed to be above being worked, that they can take something like this so literally all the time.

I garuntee you no one in the WWE actually thought Ric Flair was going away forever. They were making money off him. People watched thw HOF induction. People cried when he fought HBK at Mania. People watched his send off the next night. They made PLENTY of money off that angle. That was them maximizing what they could get out of Flair. It had VERY little to do with actually sending him off nicely. For your information, Santa Claus isn't real either.

Come on guys.

 

[jmt225]

The only problem with them coming back so soon is that it takes away the importance of retirement matches. I mean, how am I supposed to feel for a wrestler "retiring" and take "retirement matches" so seriously when deep down I know he'll be back real soon anyway, win or lose?

But, you know what? It's not just a problem in pro wrestling; it's a problem in all of sports. These guys talk about retiring after this season, and end up returning the next or the one after that. It happens all the time.

So, yeah... while I don't like a wrestler claiming they're going to retire and they don't actually do it, it's not just a problem in this sport at least. If we're so hard on pro wrestlers, then we need to lash out at all the professional athletes who do it.

Also, let me say it doesn't ever really bother me when someone does this (pro wrestler or any other athlete), unless they really should be retiring. Ric Flair, for example, should have retired after Wrestlemania 24. Not only was it the perfect send-off, but the guy is washed up now. I don't want to see someone in his condition wrestling. Now, if Shawn Michaels loses at Wrestlemania 26 and returns a year later, it won't bother me at all since most likely he'll be in the same shape he is in now.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Its for the buyrate. They throw that stip in there becuase MARKS continue to belive them for whatever reason. The retirment stip has NEVER actually meant "retire" it just means "go away for a while"

It is amazing on a site were people are supposed to be above being worked, that they can take something like this so literally all the time.

We KNOW this. But that doesn't mean what they've always done is right. I'm not arguing the WWE don't use 'retire' to mean 'go away for a while', I'm arguing that shouldn't be the case. If people get all hyped over WM26 being Shawn's last match, only for him to actually retire at WM27, it just seems pointless. What's the point of Shawn putting his 'career' on the line, and returning a few months later, when this is what he always does after WM?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Ill go ahead and repeat this one more time, real simple like.

IT'S A WORK.

It is HILARIOUS that people can look at the rest of wrestling and understand its fake, but a retirement match is OH SO legit for whatever reason

Are these wrestlers stupid and annoying, or are you guys just marks who get worked by an angle and a match stip? Don't ask ME how you are supposed to keep taking it seriously, you are the one who continues to do so. Its clear a few of us don't. Such as myself.

None of it is ever for real. Its fucking pro wrestling.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

We KNOW this. But that doesn't mean what they've always done is right. I'm not arguing the WWE don't use 'retire' to mean 'go away for a while', I'm arguing that shouldn't be the case. If people get all hyped over WM26 being Shawn's last match, only for him to actually retire at WM27, it just seems pointless. What's the point of Shawn putting his 'career' on the line, and returning a few months later, when this is what he always does after WM?

What do you mean they "shouldn't" why becuase YOU get worked by it? Should they not fight anymore either, becuase its just not nice for them to trick us into thinking those menses would hurt each other?

it fucking IS pointless. Everything in Pro Wrestling is, hello

In Shawn's instance, I don't think it will be the same as every year, a couple months, and I don't think he will return to "regular" competition per se, but he certainley won't be going away forever, and this match won't be the reason he reduces his schedule.

 

[HBK-aholic]

What do you mean they "shouldn't" why becuase YOU get worked by it?

Well the point of the forum is kind of to give what WE think...

Should they not fight anymore either, becuase its just not nice for them to trick us into thinking those menses would hurt each other?

bt te undataka myt hurt shawnzzzz

it fucking IS pointless. Everything in Pro Wrestling is, hello

No, nice way to try phrase things, but it's not really true. I mean the point of The Undertaker losing the Elimination Chamber was to set up Shawn's match at WM. Things DO have a point in the atual business. I don't see the point of 'retirement' matches.

In Shawn's instance, I don't think it will be the same as every year, a couple months, and I don't think he will return to "regular" competition per se, but he certainley won't be going away forever, and this match won't be the reason he reduces his schedule.

I just think they should have left a match like this until Shawn atually wants to retire. I mean, if he retires next WM people are just going to think "Yeah, another retirement match of his, I wonder when he'll be bak this time.."

 

[jmt225]

IT'S A WORK.

It is HILARIOUS that people can look at the rest of wrestling and understand its fake, but a retirement match is OH SO legit for whatever reason

Like I said in my post, I really don't care whether or not a wrestler retires, but the fact that wrestlers partake in these matches, and then lose, only to return... that keeps me from taking the match seriously. Why should I care about a retirement match when I know nothing's really on the line? I don't care, and that's the problem. You can say pro wrestling is fake, blah blah blah... but we're still supposed to care what happens on the show, like we do on every other television show we invest our time and money into.

Also, like I also said in my last post... I honestly don't mind a wrestler returning if they're in good shape. But if they're washed up and just looking terrible, then yeah... I'm not going to like that they're back in the ring, ruining their legacy.

Are these wrestlers stupid and annoying, or are you guys just marks who get worked by an angle and a match stip? Don't ask ME how you are supposed to keep taking it seriously, you are the one who continues to do so. Its clear a few of us don't. Such as myself.

You're the one taking it so seriously by getting so offended that some of us actually don't buy into this 'retirement' bullshit, or at least that's how you're acting.

 

[Via Armbar]

The thought never once crossed my mind that Flair would never step in the ring again. I knew he would at one point, maybe not for Vince but he would elsewhere. People can say he has been shit for the past X amount of years, but honestly he still sold the same and he still used the same moveset. Sure he was fat and balding, but no once was I not entertained by fatter balder Flair after his return to the WWE.

Seeing your favorite wrestlers work rate decline is sort of like seeing your favorite athlete lose his edge, or seeing your favorite fighter losing fight after fight. You don't want to say goodbye, but you worry about what they are doing to their legacy. The way I see, the only time I would want my favorite to retired is the day he feels he can't entertain anymore. When he doesn't love what he's doing. When you really love seeing someone perform, theirs an irreplaceable connection there. If they aren't loving what they are doing, that's when the fans know. Then it should be time, but that's only for the performer to decide. No matter how much they lose, no matter how fat they get, you still feel it. You still are captivated by what they are doing.

As far as retirement matches go, it's all for marketability. Why would a wrestler want to openly say "Yeah I can't work for shit anymore, this is it''? They know when they are really going to hang em up, and it won't be for the public to see. There is money to be made by emotional angles like Flair's. It does take away a little bit of the emotional investment you can have in the match, knowing it's not final. Really though this should make people happy, knowing that their favorite still wants to go at it. Don't ever look too much into retirement angles, more than likely they aren't final.

 

[Checkmate]

I get how some people can have a problem. I really do, and I somewhat agree. However, there isn't a clause written anywhere that states a retired man can't find work again. Sure, it defeats the purpose of calling him "retired" but it doesn't change the fact that he WAS retired and chose to go back to work. Things change, such is life, no big deal.

I get why some have beef with the Flair retirement angle. Why have a huge sendoff if he is just going to come back? The answer is simple: to finish the angle. The fans need closure, whether or not he is ever coming back (which we all knew he was someday). Flair's angle stated that if he lost, his in-ring career would end, which it did. It delivered what it promised and stuck as long as Flair could stay out of the ring. As long as the fans are ok with him lacing up the boots again, it isn't really a problem. Flair is only one name on the list of Terry Funks and Mick Foleys that have been retired only to come back time and time again. The only difference is he went out with style. Doesn't that fit Flair's career?

The whole HBK angle is similar, and as stated is only being used to increase the draw to the match. Why pay to watch a match that we've seen already unless the outcome is in question? So, they up the ante a bit. I would have preferred it to be for a Title or something, but if they want Shawn's career on the line, so be it. Creative already knows how this is gonna go, as does Shawn and Taker. They are ok with it, so we should be too.

The real question is if and when Shawn loses, how will he come back? This is where my problem comes in. Some guys "retire" and come back for almost no reason, simply on a whim. Others, like Foley in 2000, were written into a feud or match with somewhat of a reason. As long as Shawn's return is explained, I'm ok with it. Be it as a GM that occasionally competes, in a match that gets him a contract, or as a "One More Match" Hogan-esque deal, if the solution makes sense, it should happen. This only makes sense from a kayfabe perspective.

In essence, losing the match terminates Shawn's current contract and he loses his job. If for some reason he is able to gain a new contract, where is the big problem? This is the way things work. Lose a job? Get a new one. Flair "lost" his job with WWE and was sent out with honors. Then he went to TNA. New job, new contract, new lease on life. Shawn would simply be re-instated so to speak. As long as the farewell suits the return, why complain? Sure, if they fuck it up we'll rip it to shreds, but that hasn't happened yet. Hell, it hasn't even been on paper for a week that the match will happen. For all we know, this will turn into some giant clusterfuck that no one would pay to watch at all. Crazier shit has happened.

 

[Richard]

Since this match is a big match with a stipulation as big as Shawn Michaels career we have to look at history to determine what will happen in the future.

Career vs type matches aren't a new thing for WWE. In 2005 Chris Jericho lost his career to John Cena and Chris Jericho came back and I think is much better off for his 2 year break. I know that the Jericho/Cena match was no where near as big of a match as this will be which is why I hope that if Shawn loses this match that he will retire from in ring action for good. To my knowledge this career vs streak match is only for Shawns wrestling career, right?

If so, we'll see Shawn back in the WWE in a non wrestling role.

 

[Tastycles]

I think it all depends really. If Michaels retires at Mania and then returns at Backlash or whatever it is now, it is highly unlikely that people would welcome the return so readily as if Ric Flair came back tomorrow after two years out. It's obviously a marketing ploy, but I do actually believe that some wrestlers intend on giving up but can't. Retired sportsmen often become total wrecks, and the difference in wrestling is that they can keepgoing without embarrassing themselves. You can't imagine Ali getting in the ring tomorrow, but if Sammartino did, he at least wouldn't be pitied.

Wrestlers can't retire in most cases because it is all they know. Look at Bret Hart, the guy's brother has died in a wrestling accident, the best man at his wedding is paralysed, his brother in law is dead and he's had a stroke all because of wrestlign, and yet he's back, because it is in his blood. It may be a cheap stunt to advertise retirement matches, but I certainly don't judge the old timers for getting back into the ring, as long as they aren't blocking the path of the present and future.

 

[Ferbian]

I think you're quite right NorCal, they don't retire, I mean come on, how many times didn't we see Mick Foley resurface? Ric Flair resurface? oh boy the list could go on for days and quite honestly I would have better things to do than run along the list of people that "retired" only to return for brief appearances or a weeks time or two.

And quite honestly, I don't mind, certainly not all the matches some of them goes out to put forth is the most exciting one you could be watching that night because hell, some of them has actually aged since the last time.

I actually believe I read something along the lines of someone complaining about Hogan and Flair stepping into the ring again, (I apologize if I'm wrong) and quite honestly, yes they won't be able to put on the matches they did in the 90's against eachother, or the 80's seperately, but thats cause they've both aged, but we cannot deny that they won't do theirs to put on a show, and hell, I've never been a big Hulk Hogan fan, but I say, do it, and let them have a little bit of fun with it, take your time to sit down, actually watch the match, and for god sake, honor the fact that they even bother to put on a show for you.

On a last note, I kinda hope Shawn Michaels will return to a firmly exposed role in the E after his little Wrestlemania break, and I'm saying this because something in me wants The Undertaker to win, even thou it means retirement for one of my favourites, but it also means one of the greater things that makes me excited about Wrestlemania more than I would already be, still remains, and that is.. the streak.