Wrestlezone Tournament Finals: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin

Discussion in 'General WrestleZone Tournament' started by klunderbunker, Jun 19, 2010.

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Who Wins The Wrestlezone Tournament?

  1. The Undertaker

  2. Steve Austin

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This match has standard rules and no time limit. All matches from this point forward take place in a single night which is one week after the previous round, so keep this in mind as you vote: this is their third match in one night.

    Location: University of Phoenix Stadium, Phoenix, Arizona

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    The Undertaker

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    Vs.

    Steve Austin

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    Voting is open for 7 days after a two day discussion period.

    Note: There have been measures put in place to avoid any alt issues. If you attempt to make one and are caught, you will be banned on the spot.
     
    #1
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  2. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    This is a veritable squash match, in my mind. Steve Austin by about a mile and a half.

    Non-kayfabe, Austin dominates in all possible categories. Steve was a better worker, better on the mic, a better draw, more mainstream, and more historically important. What is Undertaker's advantage? That he's larger?

    Kayfabe, Austin is going to be in better shape. This match takes palce the same night as Flair-Austin and Taker-HBK. HBK has shown us these last two years that, while he can't beat Undertaker, he can put it on Undertaker and leave Undertaker a battered man. Austin will have been in there with a crafty man in Flair who will be looking to win by grabbing tights, putting the feet on the ropes; basically, Flair will dish out less damage. So Undertaker already enters the ring at a disadvantage. In the ring, history shows us that when Steve Austin is around, he's the champion, and the Undertaker is a second banana. In fact, Austin won one of his WWF/E Championships from Undertaker, but Undertaker never beat Steve Austin for one. THey also feuded for Austin's World Title, and Undertaker lost. Undertaker has one notable win that I can find, beating Austin for number one contendership near the end of Austin's run.

    Bottom line, prime vs. prime, Austin beat Taker more then once. With the added advantage of being the fresher wrestler? No contest. Austin in a romp.
     
    #2
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  3. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Stone Cold will probably win this, but my vote will still go to The Undertaker. ‘Taker is the reason why I started watching wrestling and has been my favorite of all time since then. He has had damn good matches throughout his career and has accomplished a lot. He has kept me entertained and intrigued ever since I started watching wrestling and that’s why I’m voting for him.

    Don’t get me wrong though. I love Austin too and he’s in my top 5 favorite wrestler. He has accomplished a lot as well, has had many memorable matches and promos, and he revolutionized the business. However, I’m voting by who I prefer and in this case it’s The Undertaker.

    You really can’t go wrong by voting for either of them because they both deserve to win here, unfortunately, there can only be and should only be one winner.
     
    #3
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  4. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    I don't give a shit who has sold more stuff. I don't care who has done more for the business. I don't even care who's been in the Company/Business longer. What I'm boiling this down to.. is this is the third match in the same night. The man who is going to win, is the man who has proven he has the ability to last. The Undertaker is currently leading in my opinion, to get my vote. (and likely can't be swayed - but people can try)

    My man reason for this is because Steve Austin's only "tournament" that he had any type of success in - was the King of the Ring in 1996. At which point he faced an overrated Johnny B. Badd, and an aging vet in Jake 'The Snake' Roberts - who also got roughed up and received broken ribs by Vader earlier in the night. Even with those opinions and facts being said - Austin still had a tough time in that single night, two round, tournament.

    On the downside to Austin in tournaments.. when he faced talent worth facing, he lost. While he defeated Kurt Angle - even after having time to rest and a break, he lost to Chris Jericho. (yes, you can factor in interference - but you can't explain why it took him so long to end up losing. He jumped Jericho moments after Jericho had his first match, and he couldn't put a very tired Jericho away, before interference finally came in to level things off.)

    The Undertaker, through voting and numbers - ran through Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin had 15 votes difference over Ric Flair, which is not dominance to me as well a ton of controversy regarding Jericho. (Same as Taker had w/ Cena albeit.)

    Steve Austin is not worth placing bets on - through kayfabe terms in a single night tournament, unless he's leaps and bounds ahead of the talent he's facing. The Undertaker is neither overrated, or aged. Austin should lose - but likely won't due to t-shirts and attitude.
     
    #4
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  5. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    I have a hard time seeing this argument. Steve Austin will have faced Ric Flair and Chris Jericho, neither guy is exactly known for doing tons and tons of damage, unless Flair was in some type of gimmick match. Undertaker, meanwhile, will have faced Shawn Michaels, who has shown that in a straight match he can take Taker to the brink, even though he can't put him away, and before that, in his first match, he will have taken on John Cena, a man who is virtually impossible to take down and can dish out a LOT of damage due to his power and high impact offense, not to mention it's the first match, so Cena would have been fresh, and Cena goes all out, all the time, as does Shawn Michaels.

    In a straight wrestling match, Jericho and Flair are both more likely to try to steal wins by grabbing tights and putting their feet on the ropes/grabbing the ropes during the Figure Four, especially when they would know that they wanted to ensure that they had energy left for matches after Austin. For these reasons, Undertaker will have taken FAR more damage then Austin coming into this point.

    Further, I have a question for you: You cite Steve Austin as "having trouble in tournaments", because the King of the RIng you have deemed weak, and he lost to Jericho after interference, but what success has Undertaker ever had in a tournament format? This is a serious question. According to his Wikipedia page, all I can find is him losing inthe quarterfinals of a USWA tournament to Jerry Lawler, but that was before he became the Undertaker. So, while Steve may have had "failures" in you eyes and "weak successes", it's more than the Undertaker has.

    All kayfabe signs point towards Steve Austin beating a highly damaged Undertaker.
     
    #5
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  6. Big Nick Dudley

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    Steve Austin and The Undertaker had one of the best rivalries of the late 90's, and Steve Austin usually came out on top. Taker never had much luck against Austin, especially on PPV. So, in terms of win/loss record over the course of their rivalry (which under normal circumstances, I wouldn't take into consideration..but this is a fantasy tournament), Austin wins, hands down.

    The Undertaker has had a more lengthy career, no question. He has been a larger-than-life figure for almost 20 years. But never has Taker had his own era. Never was he the most popular guy in the entire industry. Steve Austin was the top draw in wrestling during it's most profitable time. Steve Austin may have had a shorter main event-level career, but for roughly 4 years, he was the biggest name in the industry. Taker always played second fiddle to Austin during any one of their feuds.

    Some will point to Austin having little success in "tournament" type settings. Well, how about Taker having NO success in ANY tournament. Austin's KOTR tournament victory might not have been pretty, or all that impressive, but it's still more than Taker has done in any tournament. Austin and Taker both competed in the tournament for the WWF championship at Survivor Series 1999, and both men were eliminated in the Semi's. From what I can recall, that is the only tournament The Undertaker (not Mark Calaway) competed in during his career in the WWF/E. So Austin wins here too, despite win/loss record in such settings (by just having more experience, if nothing else).

    I think going completely kayfabe, with these two, is nearly impossible. Both are tough guys who would engage in a terrific battle, an epic encounter. Both guys are extremely resilient, with a will to win that is almost unmatched. So the only way for me to look at this is by judging based upon past encounters, and Austin wins. Austin has more clean wins over Taker in one-on-one matches, so that's my reference point. I just can't see any reason to vote for Taker over Austin.
     
    #6
  7. spinningtorturerack

    spinningtorturerack halfnelsonfullnelsonwilli enelson

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    I feel ashamed to admit it, but Austin has the endurance credentials:

    King of the 96
    Royal Rumble 97, 98, 01

    However he did lose the three stages of hell match against triple H in 01, but that is far more brutal and intense than what might be offered here.

    The only thing I can say is keep in mind how much of an unstoppable force Undertaker was in his prime, and he can be just as hardcore as Steve if he wants to be.
     
    #7
  8. Checkmate

    Checkmate .you.lose.

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    While I can see some reasons to vote for Taker, I largely agree with this right here. In terms of kayfabe, tournament or not, Austin should, could, and would beat Taker.

    However, for the sake of argument, I would have to give Taker a chance. In a tournament setting such as this, where the damage that both have taken thus far is a critical factor (yet very subjective), how one analyzes the prior matchups could be the deciding way to vote. Taker has gone through HBK and John Cena, while Austin has been through Jericho and Flair. All four of their opponents are very capable of dishing out damage that would likely carry over to this matchup, and both Austin and Taker are capable of withstanding a ton of abuse before being put down.

    I see Austin coming into this round with a disadvantage. That is my opinion, sure, but he is coming off rounds where two guys have (likely) repeatedly put his legs through stressful submission moves. Austin has bad legs anyway, and this can't go in his favor. Sure, I don't think Jericho did as much damage to Austin as Cena did to Taker, but I would think Austin/Flair took a toll on Austin's legs, and that should be a factor here.

    On the flip side, Taker should be gassed. We know what Michaels (on the verge of retirement) was capable of putting Taker through, and though Taker was able to win, he really fought a battle. Cena is a Hogan-esque figure that takes forever to put away, and while he doesn't really pick apart a body part, he surely took a toll on Taker's energy.

    So, I've got Taker coming in gassed and Austin coming in with battered legs. Even with a near empty tank, Taker is a pain in the ass to put down. Michaels took him to the "limit" two years in a row, but ultimately failed anyway. Austin, while he does and has had Taker's number, isn't exactly fresh here, but I don't see Taker using anything that would capitalize off of Austin's injuries. This match would likely be a war, with both beating the crap out of each other.

    In the end, I think I'd go with Austin winning. Even with Taker coming in with a slight edge, Austin is one of the guys that has consistently found ways to keep Taker down for 3. I think that is the most important thing to look at when voting in this matchup. If Taker were coming in fresh against this Austin, then yes, Taker would win, but I'm looking at the Taker that has just beaten Michaels at WM 26, only weaker. Austin, even in a weakened state, can beat that Taker, and he will here, at least in my eyes.

    My vote goes to Stone Cold Steve Austin.
     
    #8
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  9. Vash21

    Vash21 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Based on their opponents so far, I would have to give the edge to Austin, I agree that both Jericho and Flair are not heavy hitting guys. Both cheat to win, and don't do a ton of damage.

    Unless...

    Either one has managed to get their submission moves on Austin, the guy just doesn't quit and if Flair had managed to lock on the figure four for any decent length of time, then Austin could be hobbled giving the advantage to Taker.

    I am going to go off the assumption that they didn't, Austin should go into the match with Taker relatively fresh.

    Taker on the other hand had to go through Shawn, an while Shawn is not the biggest guy he puts everything into his matches and Taker has to be worn down after that. Takers other match against Cena is a non issue, Taker shouldn't have broken a sweat crushing the five knuckle shuffle loser. IMO Cena is the most overrated champion ever in the history of the WWE.

    Austin and Taker would be a slugfest. It would be brutal and I think quite bloody.

    Austin wins this one. He is IMO the best brawler the WWE has ever seen. Taker has always had a psychological advantage over most of his opponents which has always been one of his strengths. Austin wouldn't be affected by this.

    Austin wins in what would be a brutal classic.
     
    #9
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  10. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    What, so Cena and HBK wouldn't seek to save energy? They'd be all like "let's wear ourselves out!"? Jericho and Flair are smarter, yes, but Cena and HBK aren't idiots so I doubt they'd neglect to also save energy, rendering this whole argument null and void. If anything, The Undertaker is one of those supernatural characters (think Warrior, prime-Kane, even Goldberg) who don't get affected by human characteristics such as tiredness etc.
     
    #10
  11. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    Incorrect. Cena is known for going all out all the time, no matter the circumstances. He doesn't back away from fights, he doesn't hold back. That's his whole schtick. And Shawn Michaels is the same type of wrestler, far more known for just throwing everything he has at you in an effort to win. Flair and Jericho are NOTORIOUS cheaters who look for the easy way out. This is impossible to argue, based on their characters. ANd the Undertaker character is very much subject to getting tired.
     
    #11
  12. Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra

    Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra Kinda Sorta Old School

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    My vote will go to Austin, he's always been one of my favorites and watching him as a kid really got me hooked on wrestling. Now I do like the Undertaker, but he seems to bore me more than wow me, great wrestler, just not my cup of tea. My vote is for Austin.
     
    #12
  13. Captain America

    Captain America Pre-Show Stalwart

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    No argument can be made for Undertaker to go over Steve in a kayfabe tournament. Steve Austin has defeated Undertaker several times over the years. Undertaker has never had a good win-loss ratio against Steve Austin. You mention Steves trouble with tournaments, but the man was a former KOTR winner. The only evidence you have for him having trouble with tournaments is his match against Jericho for the Undisputed title, but that match occurred when Steve was past his prime and only ended after very heavy interference. What other evidence do you have for this claim?

    Also what evidence is there that Taker doesn't have trouble with tournaments? He certainly has a much worse record in tournaments than Steve ever did. Taker lost in the 2nd round of the KOTR tournament in 91'. He lost in the 2nd round of the KOTR in 95'. He lost in the semi-finals of the Deadly Games tournament at Survivor Series in 98'. Taker has never been successful in tournaments. Also just to reiterate what has already been said, Undertaker has had the much tougher road to the finals in this tournament. Steve would certainly have less ring-wear and would be the better conditioned of the two. Kayfabe wise there really isn't an argument to be made for the Undertaker.
     
    #13
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  14. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    I can argue that Austin has a penchant for losing to tired out wrestlers, such as Chris Jericho. If he loses to Jericho who just got beaten on by the Great One, what chance has he got against a guy who dishes out MORE punishment than Jericho? Austin fans can't argue against interference, the only reason interference was so prevalent in that era was because of the style and attitude Austin pioneered. He made his bed so he should lie in it.
     
    #14
  15. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    "We should give the Undertaker an advantage...because I say so."

    That's basically what your argument boils down to. There is no interference in the matches, it's already been discussed in prior matches. And kayfabe is kayfabe, so, even if we were to agree that it was Steve Austin's fault that people interfered in the matches, who cares? It doesn't matter WHY there was interference, it just matters that there WAS interference. Under kayfabe, it shows that Undertaker needs help. Man to man, the Undertaker has faced off with Steve Austin several times. And far more often than not, Steve Austin has walked out the winner.

    Further, Captain America has just shown that while Steve Austin has won one of the biggest tournaments in wrestling, the King of the Ring, the Undertaker has not had any success in tournaments, including going out in the quarterfinals of two King of the Ring tournaments and the semifinals of the Deadliest Game tournament at Survivor Series 1998.

    Look, if the best thing you can bring out is "gosh, we could get other people out there to help the UNdertaker win" and "Well, John Cena and Shawn Michaels are going to break character and start trying to conserve energy", you may be fighting a losing battle.
     
    #15
  16. Big Nick Dudley

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    Actually, we can argue against interference. See...I'm doing it right now. I would like for you to give me an example, before Wrestlemania 17, of someone interfering in a match to help Steve Austin. It didn't happen. If it did happen, it was more than likely part of a larger screwjob aimed at Austin himself. Austin had no friends. Austin didn't like anyone, and no one liked Austin. Austin didn't help people, and people didn't help Austin. I am curious how he became responsible for constant interference?

    Austin has a problem losing to tired wrestlers? You mean, when he is tired as well, and there is outside interference? That part of your argument makes zero sense. In a tournament setting, everyone gets tired. With that being said, both men would be exhausted. Maybe one more than the other, who knows. All I know is Taker has had very little success in his career in, A. Tournaments, and B. Matches against Steve Austin.
     
    #16
  17. Adam08

    Adam08 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Even though Steve Austin should win this match I am going to vote in personal preference and vote for Undertaker. You cant go wrong if you vote either Austin or Taker but Austin should win imo because he has the number on Undertaker and he also has tournament experince and won one in which Undertaker not Mark Calloway hasn't won one.

    But I am voting for person choice and going with The Undertaker.
     
    #17
  18. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    Both these guys have beaten each other in the past and I know what Austin meant to wrestling during the 90s. I know Austin was the bigger draw, I know Austin sold more merchendise, I know Austin became something of a media darling.

    However, I'm voting for The Undertaker simply because I've always enjoyed him overall more than I have Austin. For me, Austin's promos were ultimately what made him, that and his feud with McMahon. However, I thought most of his matches were average at best. I think Taker is better in the ring, had a more diverse number of opponents and he's simply withstood the test of time. Taker has been consistently big in the WWE for 20 years.

    I can't blame anyone for voting for Austin. After all, he was and remains the face of the IWC's beloved Attitude Era but, I'm still voting Taker. Even though I normally don't vote based on who I like better, I think that's really the only way I can go in this match.
     
    #18
  19. Captain America

    Captain America Pre-Show Stalwart

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    So just to re-cap everyone's arguments

    Arguments for Steve
    Steve should go over, because he's beaten Undertaker cleanly several times in the past. Has a better record in tournaments, and was the top guy in the company at the height of its popularity.

    Arguments for Taker

    Undertaker should go over, because some people like him more (which is going against the tournament rules by not voting based upon kayfabe reasons). Undertaker should go over, because a past-his prime Austin lost to Jericho after very heavy interference.

    I mean look at these arguments and tell me which one sounds more better? The choice is clear if you ask me. Vote Austin.
     
    #19
  20. Teddy Irving

    Teddy Irving Pre-Show Stalwart

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    He became responsible for constant interference because he always got on peoples bad sides so that they would interfere and cost him the match, or make his win seem more impressive. Just because nobody really interfered for him doesn't mean he was the main reason interferences were so big in the attitude era. That being said it seems interference can't happen in this tournament anyway so it doesnt really matter all that much.

    He would have been less tired as he had a break after beating angle and jericho had to wrestle right after beating the rock because austin came out and jumped him. Your stats on taker however are correct i will need to see who i am going to vote for.
     
    #20
  21. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Actually, no, it’s not against the tournament rules. People can vote by whatever criteria they want and KB (you know, the guy that’s running the tournament) said himself that it’s up to the voters to vote whichever way they want. Read this thread if you don't believe me: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=108615

    So people don’t think you have to vote for Austin just because he drew high ratings, sold a ton of t-shirts, and revolutionized the biz. If you feel that The Undertaker is the more entertaining one or the better wrestler, then vote for him.

    Like I said in my first post, both are great wrestlers, I just happened to think The Undertaker is the better one and more entertaining one so he receives my vote.
     
    #21
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  22. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    Everything Austin accomplished was due to t-shirts. It really has amazed me how many people have posted something similar to that illogical phrase throughout this tournament. I guess when Austin came to the WWF he was already the most marketable wrestler on the planet. Oh he wasn't? Hmm. So he had to build up his gimmick just like everyone else to get to that point. Everyone gets over and is booked as such for a reason. With Austin it has been well-documented how much effort he put into building his character/storylines with creative instead of just taking what they gave him. To me this suggests he actually deserves more praise for the overwhelming success of his gimmick than most who reach that point. Maybe the t-shirt sales helped keep him as dominate at the top but he built up the character that created the fanbase that bought the t-shirts through much of his own hard work. The undertaker has a classic gimmick that he pulls off amazingly but did he create most of it? Should we dismiss the Undertaker's accomplishments because he is an integral part of running the locker room (which probably effected how they booked his character)? It is just silly to attempt to trivialize everything Austin ever did in the name of t-shirts because every successful wrestler has their "t-shirts factor" and it is nowhere near as impactful as Austin's. So if you want to vote for Taker because you preferred him that is fine (he was a better in-ring performer but it ends there for me) but do not try and sell the misguided idea that Austin did not "deserve" his success.
     
    #22
  23. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    My vote is gonna go to Steve Austin, mostly due to the fact that I prefer him over Undertaker.

    These guys would be a tough opponent to each other, and yes Steve has gone over more often in clean manners against The Undertaker during Steve's prime and what I would consider to be a part of Undertaker's prime as well.

    I think this match will be very back and forth, and there would probably be quite a few finishers involved, but to take consideration into the whole tournament kind of thing that this is based on, I think that Undertaker might very well be more drained due to the fact that he fought John Cena and Shawn Michaels, one who rarely ever looses high profile matches, and another one who has taken Undertaker to the line at back to back Wrestlemania's (even though he lost).

    On the other side we have Stone Cold, who's been up against Jericho, someone who only has defeated Stone Cold through interference victories, and while he may very well have taken him to the limit with some submission moves, there's no saying he actually got it on him.

    And then there's Ric Flair, which I think would have been just as much of a draining match for Stone Cold, it would've been a tough match to say the least, but I still think that Austin would have decent energy remaining for the match.

    As I said, I think this match will be very back and forth, but I ultimately see Stone Cold coming out on top, mostly for personal preferences, but as well because I think Stone Cold could defeat Undertaker here.
     
    #23
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  24. Born To Fly

    Born To Fly Occasional Pre-Show

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    Austin
    ------
    Pros - Can survive in a long match...knows how to fight multiple opponents in one night...has proven he can beat the Undertaker...can pull the Stunner out of anywhere and make it look credible

    Cons - Not sure if can withstand multiple power finishers in a match...is bound to lose a match to Undertaker at one point


    Undertaker
    ----------
    Pros - Good power move set...Could take the fight to the outside, where he would excel...Bound to beat Stone Cold after so many losses...Ice in his veins during big matches

    Cons - Had a tough string of opponents to get to the final...has fallen susceptible to the Stunner time and time again


    Verdict
    -------
    In a tough match like this, it's difficult to pick a winner. I see many near falls, but in the end, Stone Cold only uses the Stunner and I think Undertaker would catch him with a chokeslam or Tombstone Piledriver to end it. WINNER - UNDERTAKER.
     
    #24
  25. pun2003hh

    pun2003hh BUILDING KICK!!! EXPLOSIONS!!!

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    Voting Stone Cold here. Let me break down the reasoning.

    Historical Contributions: The most important voting criteria in my opinion, and as important as both of these men are to the industry, the fact that Austin brought the industry to the mainstream and its most successful boom period outweighs the fact that the Undertaker has been the backbone of the industry for the last 15-20 years. Austin by far is the biggest star in the history of the business. Point - Austin.

    Kayfabe - Again, while I think it would be a great match, if we are looking at the evidence we have from the past, there is NO indication at all that Taker would beat Austin. They have faced each other numerous times in the past, with Austin winning clean almost every time. The two times that it didn't happen that way, Taker needed help from the McMahons to win the first time, and it took Kane and the Undertaker to pin Austin simultaneously the second time to win.

    The endurance argument is a joke. Yes, the King of the Ring tournament wasn't exactly a tough road, but it still is a tournament win, one more then the Undertaker has to my recollection. Plus, lets not forget that Austin is a THREE time Royal Rumble winner. Not one, not two, but three times! And he won those from the #5, #24, and #27 spots, not to mention he was the runner up in 99 when he entered #1, despite getting beat down by the Corporation. Taker has won a Royal Rumble, but he did enter that year at #30.

    Again, looking at the evidence we have, there is no sensible reason to not put Austin over Undertaker in a kayfabe sense. Point - Austin.

    Personal Preference - When it comes right down to it, I enjoy the Undertaker's body of work, but all around, in the ring, on the mic, I prefer Austin. I believe he is the most entertaining performer in the history of the business. Point - Austin.

    In my eyes, the only reason to vote for the deadman in this match is personal preference. Because in the argument of who was affected the industry more or who would win in a kayfabe sense, there should be no argument. Stone Cold Steve Austin wins hands down.
     
    #25

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