WrestleMania I Main Event

[The Brain]

In my last thread we discussed the mixed tag match from WrestleMania VI. I was surprised that most people that posted agreed that was the right match for that show. I think we may see more opposing points of view in this thread. Let’s talk about the main event from WrestleMania I.

As we all know the main event was Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff. I’ve seen this match discussed many times. It’s usually been mixed in WrestleMania review threads or rebooking threads. Let’s give it a thread of its own. A lot of people weren’t crazy about an actor coming in and wrestling in the main event. They think the main event should have been Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper one on one. For a long time I felt the same way, but years ago I changed my mind and came to realize Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff was the right choice for WrestleMania I.

WrestleMania was unlike any show the WWF had ever produced. They were about a year into their national expansion and were trying to build a much bigger audience. For as popular as Hulk Hogan was, and for as hated as Roddy Piper was, had the two just wrestled each other one on one the event wouldn’t have stood out too much from any other show. Mr. T brought a lot of intrigue to the match and a lot of mainstream attention. That was the real goal. The WWF could have come up with the greatest wrestling storyline ever but that wasn’t going to bring in new fans. Mr. T (along with Cyndi Lauper) brought in new fans. It was up to the WWF performers to capitalize on that and put on an entertaining show to keep those new fans coming back. I have seen some suggest making Mr. T Hogan’s corner man would have been enough, but I think it was the intrigue of seeing the popular Hollywood tough guy actually getting in the ring to wrestle is what sold the show. And by the way, the match was pretty damn good too.

I know most wrestling fans don’t appreciate outsiders coming into the business and taking a big spot on a big show. They hate it even more when that outsider holds his own in the ring and beats a regular wrestler. They feel it makes the wrestlers look weak and hurts the business. In 1985 the celebrity involvement at WrestleMania was necessary to take the WWF to the next level in the entertainment business. The only thing that bothers me a bit looking back is the WWF title was not defended at the first WrestleMania. While a title match would have been nice I think sacrificing it was worth the payoff.

What do you think? Was the tag team match the right choice for WrestleMania I or do you think a singles match would have been better?

 

[EastCoastFan]

The whole point of WrestleMania was to create a media sensation, a mega-card that transcended the pro wrestling audience and attracted nationwide mainstream press coverage for the WWF. Mr. T was not a wrestler, but he was more recognized and more popular with the world than Hulk Hogan was at that time. Hogan vs. Piper probably would have been a better match, but WrestleMania 1 would not have been as successful without him.

 

[Pedigree1]

I believe the whole idea behind Mania 1 was to indeed create a media buzz. Something that had never been done before so Vince needed all the star power he could muster! Bringing in Mister T (Clubber Lang kicks ass BTW) was brilliant! True Mr T couldnt wrestle worth a lick but he did look tough and thats all that mattered at the time.

IMO really WM1 without Mr T would not have been successful

 

[sdelfin]

Though Mr. T held his own in the ring, in that he didn't get killed, he was clearly the weak link in the match and there is nothing wrong with that. He was there to be Hogan's back up, not to beat anyone. Unfortunately, they like to have the celebs beat the wrestlers these days.

I'm sure there are minor ways you could rework the WM1 main event and have it work, but having it as a type of tag match was the way to go. Hogan vs. Piper was used effectively to build toward Wrestlemania. In 1985, Wrestlemania was an experiment. It was a gamble, but WWF's core business was house shows. And Saturday Night's Main Event was starting shortly after. The way they did it, no one ended up looking bad and there was plenty left for house shows and upcoming TV shows.

 

[thebarber]

considering Piper clearly told Vince he refused to job to Hogan one on one at Wrestlemania, Vince had to come up with something win win. A tag match was the perfect scenarion, though Hogan and Mr T I think should have been Hogan and Snuka. Jimmy Snuka had at the time been involved in one of the most famous moments in WWE history on Pipers Pit, that feud never really got the finish it deserved. I understand Vince wanted mainstream publicity and put all of his eggs into one basket, but it would have made more sense for Snuka to have wrestled. I have also read that Hogan refused to team with Snuka as he felt he would take his limelight, Snuka was massively over in 1984-1985 after turning face.
It is hard to think any different match would have been better, Hogan vs Piper 1-1 could have worked, but Piper stated if he puts Hogan over there on the biggest card ever, where does he go from there??

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Vince had to attract fans other than wrestling fans and bringing in Mr. T did exactly that. T at that time was a huge star and bringing him in worked like a charm. T and Lauper got people from outside of wrestling EXTREMELY interested in it.

A 1 on 1 match would not have worked as well as the tag match because they would have missed out on all of the Rock and Wrestling connection stuff.

considering Piper clearly told Vince he refused to job to Hogan one on one at Wrestlemania, Vince had to come up with something win win. A tag match was the perfect scenarion, though Hogan and Mr T I think should have been Hogan and Snuka. Jimmy Snuka had at the time been involved in one of the most famous moments in WWE history on Pipers Pit, that feud never really got the finish it deserved. I understand Vince wanted mainstream publicity and put all of his eggs into one basket, but it would have made more sense for Snuka to have wrestled. I have also read that Hogan refused to team with Snuka as he felt he would take his limelight, Snuka was massively over in 1984-1985 after turning face.
It is hard to think any different match would have been better, Hogan vs Piper 1-1 could have worked, but Piper stated if he puts Hogan over there on the biggest card ever, where does he go from there??

Piper never refused to job to Hogan at WM1. Vince didn't want his top babyface or heel losing and obviously T couldn't lose so that left Orndorff. Vince was the only one calling the shots at WM1.

Now Piper saying he wouldn't job to T is believable because Piper HATED him.

 

[thebarber]

Piper never refused to job to Hogan at WM1. Vince didn't want his top babyface or heel losing and obviously T couldn't lose so that left Orndorff. Vince was the only one calling the shots at WM1.

Now Piper saying he wouldn't job to T is believable because Piper HATED him.

Read Piper's book, he freely admits he refused to do a job for Hogan in singles competition, I will take his word for it. Cheers

 

[The Butcher]

thebarber is right. Piper also addresses his unwillingness to job to Hogan in the Born to Controversy documentary. He wasn't a big fan of being pinned by anyone back in those days, although he did put Snuka over clean.

As for the WrestleMania main event, it had to be what it was. As I alluded to, Piper and Snuka did indeed have their post-coconut shot feud, and by the time WrestleMania rolled around it had cooled. A title match on its own wasn't special; MSG had been holding WWF title matches for decades. And, as had been pointed out, Hogan and Piper had the singles match to sell 'Mania. The WrestleMania main event had to be something special.

It was a must that WWF go beyond the tried-and-true. Blood feuds and title matches were all well and good for the initiated, but like TheBrain pointed out in the OP, WWF was expanding. So, in came the celebs. Mr. T and Cyndi Lauper led the charge of course, but let's not forget about Muhammad Ali, Liberace, and Billy Martin taking part as well. It's arguably the most star power a single WrestleMania has ever had, as at the time Mr. T and Lauper were two of the biggest acts in TV and music respectively, Ali hadn't been wracked by Parkinson's, Billy Martin was the manager of the Yankees, and Liberace was renowned as much for his flamboyance as for his music. Those names might not resonate much in 2013, but in '85 all of them had Q scores bigger than the biggest professional wrestler.

Bringing in the celebrities and making WrestleMania an extravaganza were what made it work to the tune of 27 sequels with another on the way. Vince K. McMahon deserves all the credit he's given for making WrestleMania happen. While some today might bemoan the fact that WWE brings in actors and other celebrities for 'Mania and has celebrities in their Hall of Fame, the fact of the matter is that the foundation of WWE's WrestleMania-era has a good amount of Hollywood poured into its cement.

Plus it was a fun match.

 

[GameOver]

I'm mixed on the match, on one hand it certainly created buzz for the media and the people who otherwise would not have watched but the match sucked and that was 90% because of Mr T's involvement, the other celebrities involved in were good. Mr T looked really out of place

Should've been Piper vs Hogan the Brawl to End it All, with Orndorf and Orton in there respective corners and have Orndorf turn on Hogan then creating a post Mania fued and buzz but still selling Mania and Hogan still would've won obviously. Piper vs Hogan was selling well, there was no need to throw T in there, and then the following year Piper made a mockery of him again and legit snapped in the ring during that match.

 

[HBsam31]

I think this match can be summed up in the fact that the WWF was trying to create a buzz. Sure Hogan vs Piper would have been the better match, but without Mr. T's involvement it wouldn't have had the casual fan interest. Like it has been said Mr T and Lauper brought in the national attention and it was up to the WWF stars to perform and show everyone watching what they can do. Obviously the event was a success, and I think the match needed to be the way it was to make all that success happen.

 

[lowandmighty]

This was the first wrestling match I ever saw. I came home from school one day and my brother was watching it. It made a fan out of me and I didn't know who anyone in the match was to begin with so I had no idea Mr T was really just an actor, although I did know this kind of wrestling was predetermined, so with that in mind it would have made no difference to me who was on the show or whether it was a title match or not.

The thing that got me hooked was the way it ended. I walked in and I'm standing there looking at my brother completely enthralled about mid way through the match so I just stood there still one strapping trying to be cool looking at the match.

Hulk Hogan was being double teamed and I was like "wait a minute, thats not fair, the ref isn't even looking what is he ******ed or something" and it was one of the rare times I ever saw my father who was also there for some reason and he looked at me and said supportingly "its not fair is it" and then Hulk Hogan moved out of the way of the flying arm cast shot causing the bad guys to beat themselves and it was just as though justice had prevailed just like in a movie or something.

So if it wasn't a tag match, Hogan couldn't have been double teamed like that and wrestling wouldn't have a fan or any of my friends at the time who I converted into more fans. So they made the right choice having a tag match.

It was a tape so when my brother saw I liked it, I watched the whole tape back with him and was hooked ever since.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

Personally I think Piper vs. Hogan for the WWF title would have been bigger than the mix tag and I think in hindsight WWE would wholeheartedly agree. I understand completely they were aiming for the celebrity aspect for the event which was fine, that's what they wanted to do and I have no problem with it, but Piper vs. Hogan by itself would have and should have been huge.

If they wanted to incorporate Mr. T, they should have never had him attempt to compete. It came off flat and Piper always had some entertaining comments about Mr. T before, during and after the match. He should have been in Hogan's corner, scrapping Jimmy Snuka from the match and having him in a one-on-one match against Mr. Wonderful or even Cowboy Bob Orton. Piper then could have had either Orndorff or Orton in his corner and things would have worked out fine. That mix tag was basically a means to ensure Hogan got his pop, the crowd went home happy and Mr. T got a payday, that was it. Piper didn't necessarily have to beat Hulk for the WWF title, but he should have had a chance to compete for it. I mean, keep in mind, King Kong Bundy faced Hogan a year later in a cage and NOBODY will ever confuse Piper heat for Bundy heat. But be that as it may, the outcome would have been the same just with different people.

 

[Judah's Lion]

i thought Brain would be right and that this discussion would be much more split. but it's looking like everyone agrees. Hogan/Piper 1 on 1 is a better wrestling match, but Mr. T was needed to bring in the biggest audience possible.

not only do i think that a celebrity was needed to make this main event a tag match instead of singles title match, i think Mr. T specifically was the right choice. Hogan and Mr. T had a little bit of history together as both appeared in the movie Rocky III just a few years prior. it made sense to bring him in. plus Mr. T has that kind of look and voice and overall aura that he could legit fight, so it's not like they brought in a slob for the main event of the biggest gamble in wrestling history. a little sloppy in the ring? sure. but listen to the reaction he gets whenever he tags in. the audience was totally buying Mr. T as a legit threat and contender.

it probably wouldn't work today. but for the first Mania main event ever? this just worked. the only way i would have changed it would maybe be a 6 man tag instead of a regular tag match with an extra man in each corner for "moral support". having Snuka/Piper have a moment in the ring at Mania to settle their feud would have been the icing on the cake. but overall, i really liked how this one turned out and definitely think it was the better choice for main event.

 

[gers09]

i think there is only one piece of evidence you need to tell if it is right and is they just announced where WM 30 will be wrestlemaina I was/is the biggest Vince and Linda McMahon took the whole future there company took after that day rested on that night being a success. they have said them self's if the flopped then it would of been the end of them

 

[TheHorndogSays]

I'm not sure Hogan/Piper would have necessarily been a better match. Neither man was truly known for their ring skills. With the exception of Bret/Piper from WM8 (which was all due to Bret IMO)name me one GREAT WRESTLING match put on by either man in their career. Adding Mr. T added intrigue and not to mention the media frenzy McMahon wanted for his show. A Hogan/Piper headliner would have simply made WM1 a "wrasslin show". Adding Mr. T to that mix made it a SPECTACLE.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I think this match can be summed up in the fact that the WWF was trying to create a buzz.

True. Hulk Hogan was just a wrestler until Rocky III; after that, he became a crossover star. Mr. T. was unknown until the movie came out. In many ways, the movie and pro wrestling exercised a reciprocal arrangement; wrestling donated a wrestler to create a presence in the movies, so wasn't it natural that the movies donate an actor to a wrestling extravaganza?

Both Terry Bollea and Lawrence Tureaud gave really good performances in the movie, giving Hogan a whole new dimension while establishing Mr. T as a controversial figure, making the main event at the first Wrestlemania a natural. Adding in two of the biggest villains going, it was a great idea that produced a great result. I was only 6 years old, yet remember it well.

 

[spaldoni]

i thought Brain would be right and that this discussion would be much more split. but it's looking like everyone agrees. Hogan/Piper 1 on 1 is a better wrestling match, but Mr. T was needed to bring in the biggest audience possible.

not only do i think that a celebrity was needed to make this main event a tag match instead of singles title match, i think Mr. T specifically was the right choice. Hogan and Mr. T had a little bit of history together as both appeared in the movie Rocky III just a few years prior. it made sense to bring him in. plus Mr. T has that kind of look and voice and overall aura that he could legit fight, so it's not like they brought in a slob for the main event of the biggest gamble in wrestling history. a little sloppy in the ring? sure. but listen to the reaction he gets whenever he tags in. the audience was totally buying Mr. T as a legit threat and contender.

it probably wouldn't work today. but for the first Mania main event ever? this just worked. the only way i would have changed it would maybe be a 6 man tag instead of a regular tag match with an extra man in each corner for "moral support". having Snuka/Piper have a moment in the ring at Mania to settle their feud would have been the icing on the cake. but overall, i really liked how this one turned out and definitely think it was the better choice for main event.

I agree with this. During that time you had to have Mr. T there. WrestleMania would not have been the huge success it was without him in the ring. It's not like he was an ordinary actor getting in the ring. Mr. T was a tough guy and was a big mainstream star. He was the perfect person for the part. I also agree that the only thing I might of changed was make it a 6 man tag. The Garden would of erupted at Piper and Snuka exchanging blows. In the end I thought the match worked well and was very entertaining.

 

[8thwotwATG]

I believe that the right buisness decision was made for that time period. Others have stated that T helped to bring in a buyrate on closed circuit and at MSG that most likely wouldn't have occured had it just been a Hogan/Piper matchup. It's true that Mr. T wasn't even close to polished in this match, but the other three participnts were more than capable of carrying the ball, as it were, and an entertaining match was delivered in that main event. T did an adequete job in the ring that day, and the undercard had a couple of all star matches to help make the first wrestlemania a sucess. Andre vs. Studd, and Windham/Rotundo vs. Shiek and Volkoff helped to bolster the card. For what it was at the time, WM I was a huge sucess!!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Snuka wasn't involved in the match as he was still embroiled in the controversy of the death of his girlfriend. I am still surprised Vince had him in the building at all, but he had done a pretty good job of keeping it quiet. The guy who suffered most was probably Bob Orton, who deserved a match on the card rather than the bit part.

As for the match itself, I can see the logic of it, but still think Piper v Hogan would have been a better match with Mr. T in Hogan's corner. At the end of the day T was there to pop the media and that was achieved but his in-ring work was really the only weak point of the show and that Hogan wasn't the most stellar worker either just emphasized it. I'm not blaming him but ultimately he was under too much pressure in that main event spot for a first timer.

One thing that would have been interesting would have been having Mr. T involved in the JYD/Valentine feud rather than with Hogan - it might not have had as much mainstream appeal, but if you went with Piper and Hogan as a singles and had JYD/T vs Valentine and Bundy or Neidhart then you still could have had an entertaining part for T and less pressure on him.

 

[thebarber]

True. Hulk Hogan was just a wrestler until Rocky III; after that, he became a crossover star. Mr. T. was unknown until the movie came out. In many ways, the movie and pro wrestling exercised a reciprocal arrangement; wrestling donated a wrestler to create a presence in the movies, so wasn't it natural that the movies donate an actor to a wrestling extravaganza?

Both Terry Bollea and Lawrence Tureaud gave really good performances in the movie, giving Hogan a whole new dimension while establishing Mr. T as a controversial figure, making the main event at the first Wrestlemania a natural. Adding in two of the biggest villains going, it was a great idea that produced a great result. I was only 6 years old, yet remember it well.

Rocky 3 came out in 1982, so it was 3 years later that Mania happened, he was still well known then for being in The A Team.
Hogan refused to let Snuka be his partner in the match, the guy who Piper was fueding with in 1984...he felt Snuka would "steal his thunder" due to how over he was. In hindsight, Hulk Hogan and Jimmy Snuka vs Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff with Mr T in Hogans corner would have been much better regarding the in ring quality, but as we know the actuial in ring is only a portion of what makes a great storyline and match

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Rocky 3 came out in 1982, so it was 3 years later that Mania happened, he was still well known then for being in The A Team.
Hogan refused to let Snuka be his partner in the match, the guy who Piper was fueding with in 1984...he felt Snuka would "steal his thunder" due to how over he was. In hindsight, Hulk Hogan and Jimmy Snuka vs Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff with Mr T in Hogans corner would have been much better regarding the in ring quality, but as we know the actuial in ring is only a portion of what makes a great storyline and match

It was a Vince call not to have Snuka promoted, all it would have taken was the media to pick up on the investigation Snuka had only just escaped from (her parents later got a civil judgement against him and even the police said they thought he'd done it but could never prove it) and that negative publicity would have taken T and Ali out of the equation, as they wouldn't want to be associated publicly with that. Also there had been a lot of media botches in the build-up with the Dr. D. and "bad" Mr. T. interview, so it was safer to keep Snuka on the periphery than be directly involved, and he was gone quite soon after.

If Hogan had worries about Snuka stealing his thunder then I am sure he didn't argue with Vince but it wasn't until Mania worked that he had the kind of stroke needed to make those kind of demands.

To this day Snuka's HOF ring and that he still gets used onscreen is the biggest hypocrisy WWE has ever made...