Wrestlemania 9 Ending

[Big Sexy]

The opinion of most is that the ending to Wrestlemania 9 was awful and probably the worst ending to a Mania ever. It is thought that Hogan was just an ego maniac trying to steal the spotlight and the ending did nothing but bury Yokozuna and Bret Hart. I am hear to tell you that while it may not have been the best ending, it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

1993 was a transition period for the WWE. Management knew Hulk Hogan was on his way out and the WWE was left without a legitimate top guy. Bret Hart may have been the champion going into Mania 9 but he won the title at a house show and hadn't defended the title against any big names. He was the world champion but not really an established top guy that the WWE could ride with.

The only way that a new set of main eventers could be established would be for Hogan to help create them because at the time he was the only guy in the company capable of doing that. Yokozuna was establishing himself as a dominant heel but defeating a 1 time World Champion who held the title for 6 months with no major defenses wasn't going to make him the unbeatable monster that the company wanted him to be. Bret Hart had the potential to be a top guy but he needed to defeat someone that would get him over as a legitimate top guy.

Cue the Mania 9 ending. Yokozuna with a little help from Mr Fuji defeats Bret Hart for the title. Hulk Hogan comes to check on Bret and the cocky champion's manager issues a challenge to the Hulkster for an impromptu title match. A very tired and worn down Yoko is then caught off guard early and Hogan comes away with a quick victory. This did not bury Yoko. He had just been through a grueling match and then the greatest champion in WWE history came out fresh and got a quick, kind of fluke victory over him. This also allowed the fans to go home happy which up until the Attitude Era was the case at every single Wrestlemania. It wasn't until Mania 16 that a heel would be victorious to close Wrestlemania.

A couple moths later in a one on one match with both men fresh Yokozuna defeated Hulk Hogan. He kicked out of a leg drop and got the victory in a one on one match up against the greatest WWE superstar of all time. Hogan left the WWE after this and Yokozuna basically became the guy who ended Hulkamania. If that isn't getting someone over as a top, domiannt heel then I don't know what is. Just beating Bret at Mania would not have had nearly the same effect.

This not only helped Yoko but also Bret Hart. As the story goes, Hogan did not want to lose the title to Bret because he didn't want to be pinned cleanly by another face. The only other way to get Bret over as a top guy would be to have him pin a seemingly unpinnable superstar. At Wrestlemania 10 Bret did just that. Yokozuna had been WWE Champion for nearly a year, he was known as the guy who ended Hulkamania, and he had never been pinned before. Bret pinning him in the main event at Mania was the big win he needed to truly establish himself as "the man."

I know this was a lot of rambling but basically what I'm getting at is that while the Mania 9 ending may have seemed awful it really wasn't that bad and it did exactly what it was supposed to do in the long run. If the ending doesn't happen that way then the fans go home pissed, Yoko doesn't become as dominant as a heel because he may not have ended Hulkamania a few months later, and Bret isn't able to get that huge victory to truly establish himself at the top.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I guess you made a major point here.. I must admitt that I never saw this side of the coin! But then, they could have booked this differently: Yoko going over Bret at Wrestlemania and then going over against the Hulkster in a different event. That would have made more sense than this shitty end..

Sorry for some grammar or spelling mistakes, I am not form the U.S or the UK

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

The opinion of most is that the ending to Wrestlemania 9 was awful and probably the worst ending to a Mania ever. It is thought that Hogan was just an ego maniac trying to steal the spotlight and the ending did nothing but bury Yokozuna and Bret Hart. I am hear to tell you that while it may not have been the best ending, it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

1993 was a transition period for the WWE. Management knew Hulk Hogan was on his way out and the WWE was left without a legitimate top guy. Bret Hart may have been the champion going into Mania 9 but he won the title at a house show and hadn't defended the title against any big names. He was the world champion but not really an established top guy that the WWE could ride with.

The only way that a new set of main eventers could be established would be for Hogan to help create them because at the time he was the only guy in the company capable of doing that. Yokozuna was establishing himself as a dominant heel but defeating a 1 time World Champion who held the title for 6 months with no major defenses wasn't going to make him the unbeatable monster that the company wanted him to be. Bret Hart had the potential to be a top guy but he needed to defeat someone that would get him over as a legitimate top guy.

Cue the Mania 9 ending. Yokozuna with a little help from Mr Fuji defeats Bret Hart for the title. Hulk Hogan comes to check on Bret and the cocky champion's manager issues a challenge to the Hulkster for an impromptu title match. A very tired and worn down Yoko is then caught off guard early and Hogan comes away with a quick victory. This did not bury Yoko. He had just been through a grueling match and then the greatest champion in WWE history came out fresh and got a quick, kind of fluke victory over him. This also allowed the fans to go home happy which up until the Attitude Era was the case at every single Wrestlemania. It wasn't until Mania 16 that a heel would be victorious to close Wrestlemania.

A couple moths later in a one on one match with both men fresh Yokozuna defeated Hulk Hogan. He kicked out of a leg drop and got the victory in a one on one match up against the greatest WWE superstar of all time. Hogan left the WWE after this and Yokozuna basically became the guy who ended Hulkamania. If that isn't getting someone over as a top, domiannt heel then I don't know what is. Just beating Bret at Mania would not have had nearly the same effect.

This not only helped Yoko but also Bret Hart. As the story goes, Hogan did not want to lose the title to Bret because he didn't want to be pinned cleanly by another face. The only other way to get Bret over as a top guy would be to have him pin a seemingly unpinnable superstar. At Wrestlemania 10 Bret did just that. Yokozuna had been WWE Champion for nearly a year, he was known as the guy who ended Hulkamania, and he had never been pinned before. Bret pinning him in the main event at Mania was the big win he needed to truly establish himself as "the man."

I know this was a lot of rambling but basically what I'm getting at is that while the Mania 9 ending may have seemed awful it really wasn't that bad and it did exactly what it was supposed to do in the long run. If the ending doesn't happen that way then the fans go home pissed, Yoko doesn't become as dominant as a heel because he may not have ended Hulkamania a few months later, and Bret isn't able to get that huge victory to truly establish himself at the top.

This is the umpteenth thread that has been posted on this site about this matter, however I like the perspective you have on it, thank god that someone here doesn't think like a stupid self professed expert on the subject like so many haters do...in fact I mentioned this event in rather long detail in a previous post, I am going to actually quote myself from said post sir and give you my insight in case you haven't checked out what I wrote in regards to this matter, the original post can be found at this link Worst WrestleMania Endings - http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=181122:

I often wondered if this was really Vince McMahon's call or Hogan's call.

That point can be argued rather well, I don't doubt that there was definitely discussion behind the scenes and I am sure even with Hogan's fading star power at that point compared to the Hulkamania fever pitch, that he was still able to get some leeway in story lines. My reason for leaning towards Vince being the true decision maker on this one, is the fact that immediately after Hogan's departure, Lex Luger walked into the Hulk Hogan archetype, and I think that should not be disregarded, because we have to be honest here, Lex Luger for all intents and purposes was a surrogate Hulk Hogan in the summer of 1993. It was in my view that Vince just found himself trapped in that All-American hero mindset.

One could argue it might have been Vince's call since he still had a hard-on for Hogan at the time. Also Hogan did say it was not his decision to win the title at the end.

Continuing off what I said, Vince I am sure has had to compromise with big name stars in the past, and I know that Hogan being the magnitude of star that he is definitely had to use his star power from time to time, WM IX may very well be an example of that, but with the forthcoming addition of Lex Luger to the baby face side of the roster, the idea of Vince being all about Hogan getting one last title run would make sense I think.

On the other hand, it was not a very smart business move. Since Hogan was pretty much a part time guy anyways having The Champion not appear in majority of your shows for 3 months is not wise in an economical point of view. Also in his DVD Bret Hart looked like he blamed Hogan for what happened at WMXI.

It's easy for people now, even including staunch Hogan supporters like myself to lambaste Hogan for getting that last title reign in. Trust me, as Hogan was being phased out of the WWF, I was a HUGE Bret Hart booster, nothing was more magical than one Saturday morning in October when Mean Gene introduced Bret Hart as the new WWF World Champion, little did I know that Coliseum Video had thankfully recorded the whole match, which if you own the 50 Top Superstars DVD, that match is included in its entirety. It's seriously a match that should have been on the Hitman's first DVD release, why it wasn't I'll never know.

Anyway, looking at it today, it's easy as I said to just criticize this booking move, but despite Hogan's decreased presence he still had a little bit of magic and the fans were still nuts to see him. I can't explain it, but that's just what makes Hogan who he is, love him or hate him. The main thing is, I personally feel that like past champions of the WWF, Bruno Sammartino and Bob Backlund for instance, Vince needed to have Hogan definitively lose the title and put over a monstrous heel in the process. The last time Hogan was a WWF Champion prior to WM IX, he was stripped of the title after controversially beating the Undertaker for it. For those that say Hogan buried Yokozuna at the event, you have to think of it like this, Yokozuna had already exhausted himself in the storyline by wrestling an entire match against Bret Hart which in kayfabe he cheated to do anyway, then to boot a fresh Hogan capitalized on a botched interference attempt by Fuji when he hit Yokozuna in the face with the ceremonial salt. Hogan then used Yoko's combined state of weakness and botched interference to pin him to take the title.

Fast forward two months later, in a legit rematch, Yokozuna squashes Hulk Hogan and despite that match having controversy, it really is the way a heel does business and it led to a nine month World Title reign, something not seen with a heel since Superstar Billy Graham. In the meantime, Bret Hart would win the King Of The Ring and then the Royal Rumble (with Lex Luger who did not pan out as a suitable replacement to Hogan) and get his revenge on Yokozuna. Think about it like this people, despite how great it would have been for a lot of us hardcore fans to see Bret beat Hogan for the belt, it would have meant he'd either have to wait to get his payback on Yokozuna or that day would never have come, who really knows. Bottom line when Vince failed to package Luger as the new Hogan, I think he knew that he had a great heel champion in Yokozuna and he decided to capitalize on it, and what better way than to market the behemoth as the guy who crushed Hulkamania in the WWF once and for all, which they indeed did for quite sometime.Take for instance this cover from the OFFICIAL WWF Magazine, dated August 1994.

NOTE: To those thinking that Yokozuna was buried at WM IX, I'd beg to differ, in fact if anything Hogan was the one who looked the worst out of this by winning the belt from a tired competitor at WM IX, in the storyline, I think Yokozuna more than made it up to himself in the long run against the Hulkster, again look at the above image.


I hate saying it like this, because the books these wrestlers write and their DVDs entertain the hell out of me...BUT I feel these things are merely an extension of some blurry and ambiguous new form of kayfabe. There might be some instances of reality that these people talk about but considering the nature of their professions (that being in the entertainment business) I think a great amount of hyperbole and embellishment is often exploited with these "backstage accounts".

Exactly, all I am presenting is a basic argument to what I think was really going on with the debacle of Hulk Hogan, Yokozuna, Bret Hart, and Lex Luger or to put it more effectively the Spring-Summer 1993 WWF World Title picture. While I disagree with many aspects of the WrestleMania IX ending, in my opinion despite the short changing of Yokozuna in his first reign that night, it was indeed in my view the stepping stone to an even better run once he got it back, and even if Yokozuna was not my favorite champion, all was well that ended well, when Bret Hart FINALLY took it back at the next WrestleMania, I was a very happy 12 year old back in 1994 when the Pink and Black attack took out Yokozuna, it was a damn good match too. Along with WM XII, XIII and VIII (Probably Bret's most underrated WM match) it had such a feel good element to it.

So basically, before any of these idiots go out and call me some Hogan mark, I lived through this era of the WWF and if anyone has an authority to speak on it, it's people like me and those who are my age and older. I'm willing to wager that most marks that bitch about this period in WM's history were probably not even born yet or were so young that they were still crapping their diapers and sucking on their mom's boob.

So there was my take on it, I also had to laugh at the whole tirade of some posters saying that the WrestleMania IX ending buried Bret Hart and Yoko and I disagreed greatly and gave better examples of what could be possible considerations for things being buried in wrestling:

- Ricky Steamboat's 1991 WWF Stint where he was treated like a newcomer and not a former WWF IC Champion, and a former NWA World Champion (the latter can be understood since Vince obviously wouldn't want to give credibility to a competitor)

- The ill-fated nWo reunion in WWF circa 2002. I've a good feeling Vince knew this wouldn't work so in my opinion, I can't prove it, just a suspicion and I am not stating it as fact unlike the OP has but Vince thought just the same to show the nWo as a shell of what it once was.

- The WWE Cruiserweight Division circa 2008, as if I thought Oklahoma and Madusa feuding for the strap couldn't be any worse, they gave the thing to Hornswoggle.

- Then of course the United States and IC Titles, titles that greats like Magnum TA, Sting, Randy Savage and Curt Hennig defined are now joke props that are no longer a proper plot device to showcase great talents in the ring. Hell they are barely even defended at WrestleMania, in fact the US Title match took a backseat to that stumpy troll Snooki.

All of the above are a far better case for what a true wrestling burial is. Granted even if I myself would have liked to seen a better ending to WM IX, nothing changes the fact that both Yokozuna and Bret Hart were very well redeemed in the long run. The WrestleMania IX ending served as a platform for Hulk Hogan's WWF invincibility to be crushed and crushed it was. People that think otherwise need to keep it kayfabe, period.

And again, this is coming from a guy who's got a Bret Hart avatar for his profile, I'm every bit a fan of Bret Hart as I am Hulk Hogan, and I'm just calling it like I see it.

The IC Title might get a resurgence because of Cody Rhodes , but we will wait and see, until I start seeing that title be a regular feature again of WrestleMania, I will consider that title a buried one...period.

But that's the long and short of it all OP, thanks for being a voice of reason on this tired subject which usually involves discussion that's motivated soley on the hatred of Hulk Hogan.

Again, good posting and hopefully you'll have fans with more credibility replying to you, however be weary of the ocean of Hogan haters that will crash like a tidal wave on this topic.

I'll gladly defend the topic with you though.

 

[Big Sexy]

I guess you made a major point here.. I must admitt that I never saw this side of the coin! But then, they could have booked this differently: Yoko going over Bret at Wrestlemania and then going over against the Hulkster in a different event. That would have made more sense than this shitty end..

The only problem with that is Wrestlemania would have ended with a heel reigning supreme and a crowd that doesn't go home happy. Wrestlemania was the biggest event of the year and at this point in the WWE every single Wrestlemania ended with a big name face standing tall. Whether it be Hogan, Savage, or Warrior it was always a feel good moment for the fans. It wasn't until Wrestlemania 16 in the year 2000 that a Mania ended with a heel being victorious. They could have had Hogan come out and just beat up on Yoko at the end of Mania and not have him win the title but I'm not sure it would have had the same effect. Plus you have the fact that Yoko ended Hulkamania at KOTR and took the world title from Hogan and that was a bigger moment then him just retaining against him would have been.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I thought Hogan was supposed to win at WM 9, then set up a match with Hart. Hart was supposed to beat Hulk, thus further establishing him as a legit champion, getting the rid of the lingering feeling that Hart only had the title because big guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, etc either were gone or only wrestling sporadically at that point. Didn't Hogan balk at the idea, feeling Hart wasn't worthy ?

In fact, hasn't Hart spoken of this in past interviews, didn't Hogan write about the incident in his autobiography ??

Essentially, I always thought WM 9 was the set up to really entrench Hart as the company's champ, Vince convinced he needed to smaller, more athletic wrestler who could perform all types of matches, ala Flair in NWA.

Thing is, Vince was convinced that type of wrestler, not the big, lumbering, muscle heads of the 80's, was the answer, he just thought HBK was a more creative and entertaining character to build on, more so than Hart

 

[Big Sexy]

I thought Hogan was supposed to win at WM 9, then set up a match with Hart. Hart was supposed to beat Hulk, thus further establishing him as a legit champion, getting the rid of the lingering feeling that Hart only had the title because big guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, etc either were gone or only wrestling sporadically at that point. Didn't Hogan balk at the idea, feeling Hart wasn't worthy ?

That's what was supposed to happen but Hogan said he didn't want to lose to another face clean so the idea was scrapped. That's another reason why the Mania 9 ending worked. With Hogan having the belt they had options. Because he didn't want to lose the belt to Hart they could have Yoko end Hulkamania and build him up as an unstoppable heel. Then they could put Hart over him and fully entrench him as the face of the company and that's what they did at Mania 10.

 

[Dagger Dias]

The reasons behind why they did the Wrestlemania 9 ending the way they did does not change the fact that it was an awful ending. If they wanted to establish a new face, then putting the belt on Hogan through controversial means was not the way to go about it. Look at Wrestlemania 6. Warrior defeated Hogan and it helped him big time, regardless of if he blew it later on or not. If they wanted to create an unbeatable monster for Bret to overcome, then they should have just has Yokozuna defeat Hogan at Wrestlemania 9. For me it isn't so much about Bret losing, it's HOW he lost, and the fact that Hogan won again when he was on his way out anyhow. Hogan should have not been so full of himself and let either Bret or Yokozuna defeat him at Wrestlemania 9 because not only would that have been a better ending, but it would have helped WWE in a huge way to create new stars during a time when they needed to.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

The reasons behind why they did the Wrestlemania 9 ending the way they did does not change the fact that it was an awful ending. If they wanted to establish a new face, then putting the belt on Hogan through controversial means was not the way to go about it. Look at Wrestlemania 6. Warrior defeated Hogan and it helped him big time, regardless of if he blew it later on or not. If they wanted to create an unbeatable monster for Bret to overcome, then they should have just has Yokozuna defeat Hogan at Wrestlemania 9. For me it isn't so much about Bret losing, it's HOW he lost, and the fact that Hogan won again when he was on his way out anyhow. Hogan should have not been so full of himself and let either Bret or Yokozuna defeat him at Wrestlemania 9 because not only would that have been a better ending, but it would have helped WWE in a huge way to create new stars during a time when they needed to.

I hear ya man, but the fact is it was Vince's call, considering Hogan was on his way out anyway from all accounts, Hogan had no leg to stand on, at the end of the day it's about more than Hogan just being about himself in my opinion, Vince obviously still chose to pull the trigger. Which is unfortunate in some ways.

 

[Big Sexy]

The reasons behind why they did the Wrestlemania 9 ending the way they did does not change the fact that it was an awful ending. If they wanted to establish a new face, then putting the belt on Hogan through controversial means was not the way to go about it. Look at Wrestlemania 6. Warrior defeated Hogan and it helped him big time, regardless of if he blew it later on or not. If they wanted to create an unbeatable monster for Bret to overcome, then they should have just has Yokozuna defeat Hogan at Wrestlemania 9. For me it isn't so much about Bret losing, it's HOW he lost, and the fact that Hogan won again when he was on his way out anyhow. Hogan should have not been so full of himself and let either Bret or Yokozuna defeat him at Wrestlemania 9 because not only would that have been a better ending, but it would have helped WWE in a huge way to create new stars during a time when they needed to.

There's one gigantic problem with your entire post. Hogan wasn't going to be the champion going into Mania 9 no matter what. That had been his return date set in stone and there was really no logical way to have him get the title before that. That's a big reason why they did what they did. They could have had Hogan win the title on RAW or something after Mania but that would not have had nearly the affect that it did with him getting the belt at Mania. You can call Hogan egotistical all you want but at the time he was still by far the most popular superstar in the WWE and the guy who the fans wanted to see win. It's easy to look back now and shit on him winning the title but if you asked the fans at that time I guarantee the majority of them were happy with him leaving that night as champion.

 

[TUFFY54]

I've got a question: when the hell did we all become bookers instead of fans. Watch WrestleMania 9, you'll notice that everyone cheered and went crazy when Hogan won the title. As a little Hulkamaniac, I went crazy when he won the belt out of nowhere. Lets not forget that Hogan was still the most popular wrestler of all time at Mania 9. I guess you guys were right. Bret Hart was a total flop as a wrestler and never accomplished anything in the business because Hogan beat Yoko after his match. Give me a break with that shit.

If Stone Cold had come out and stunned Miz to win the belt at Mania 27, would you all say he was an selfish piece of shit trying to ruin the business?

Here's the facts about Mania 9:

-Hogan was the biggest star in the company.

-The fans at the show went home happy.

-Millions of Hogan fans watching on PPV were happy to see him beat the evil Yokozuna.

-Yoko and Bret turned out just fine.

Whats the problem?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Anyone actually going back and watching early 1993 or is this all nostalgia (better or worse) skewed memories?

I'm watching 1993 Raw. Hogan isn't that prominent. Yoko is being built up amazingly as indestructable, and Hart is being built up as a hero.

I understand that Hogan was the top draw. Typically I am all for putting the belt on your top draw. HOWEVER, Hogan wasn't a big part of the shows. Hogan's not at every show. So basically you shit on the guys who ARE at every show, so why would people tune in to see the "B talent" on Raw?

I really appreciate all the efforts to defend this, because usually I'm defending the WWE making decisions soley on drawing power (smart business). However, this was a case of them stunting the growth of their future. You could say that Yoko ended up fine but it took a long time to build him back up, same for Bret. I think that they took 1 step foreward, then 2 steps back. Having Bret beat Yoko would have been 1 step back, but then 2 steps foreward.

 

[GameOver]

did you see the last Mania - Miz vs Cena? WrestleMania 9 was far from the worse ending to a Mania. get a grip. It was done for a reason, obviously they at that point (besides Hogan vs Warrior) they never had 2 faces going at it for a World Title in a PPV, IC title yes but not the World Title. Probably also Hogan didn't want face Bret Hart and be shown up. It also setup a short fued between Hogan and Yokozuna which gave Yokozuna a huge rub and eventually put over Bret even more, being the man that finally beat the unbeatable

really the whole Mania 9 was a poor Mania, but that certainly wasn't the worst match ending imo

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

The opinion of most is that the ending to Wrestlemania 9 was awful and probably the worst ending to a Mania ever. It is thought that Hogan was just an ego maniac trying to steal the spotlight and the ending did nothing but bury Yokozuna and Bret Hart. I am hear to tell you that while it may not have been the best ending, it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

1993 was a transition period for the WWE. Management knew Hulk Hogan was on his way out and the WWE was left without a legitimate top guy. Bret Hart may have been the champion going into Mania 9 but he won the title at a house show and hadn't defended the title against any big names. He was the world champion but not really an established top guy that the WWE could ride with.

The only way that a new set of main eventers could be established would be for Hogan to help create them because at the time he was the only guy in the company capable of doing that. Yokozuna was establishing himself as a dominant heel but defeating a 1 time World Champion who held the title for 6 months with no major defenses wasn't going to make him the unbeatable monster that the company wanted him to be. Bret Hart had the potential to be a top guy but he needed to defeat someone that would get him over as a legitimate top guy.

Cue the Mania 9 ending. Yokozuna with a little help from Mr Fuji defeats Bret Hart for the title. Hulk Hogan comes to check on Bret and the cocky champion's manager issues a challenge to the Hulkster for an impromptu title match. A very tired and worn down Yoko is then caught off guard early and Hogan comes away with a quick victory. This did not bury Yoko. He had just been through a grueling match and then the greatest champion in WWE history came out fresh and got a quick, kind of fluke victory over him. This also allowed the fans to go home happy which up until the Attitude Era was the case at every single Wrestlemania. It wasn't until Mania 16 that a heel would be victorious to close Wrestlemania.

A couple moths later in a one on one match with both men fresh Yokozuna defeated Hulk Hogan. He kicked out of a leg drop and got the victory in a one on one match up against the greatest WWE superstar of all time. Hogan left the WWE after this and Yokozuna basically became the guy who ended Hulkamania. If that isn't getting someone over as a top, domiannt heel then I don't know what is. Just beating Bret at Mania would not have had nearly the same effect.

This not only helped Yoko but also Bret Hart. As the story goes, Hogan did not want to lose the title to Bret because he didn't want to be pinned cleanly by another face. The only other way to get Bret over as a top guy would be to have him pin a seemingly unpinnable superstar. At Wrestlemania 10 Bret did just that. Yokozuna had been WWE Champion for nearly a year, he was known as the guy who ended Hulkamania, and he had never been pinned before. Bret pinning him in the main event at Mania was the big win he needed to truly establish himself as "the man."

I know this was a lot of rambling but basically what I'm getting at is that while the Mania 9 ending may have seemed awful it really wasn't that bad and it did exactly what it was supposed to do in the long run. If the ending doesn't happen that way then the fans go home pissed, Yoko doesn't become as dominant as a heel because he may not have ended Hulkamania a few months later, and Bret isn't able to get that huge victory to truly establish himself at the top.

Didn't yoko have to cheat to beat hulk hogan... some cameraman had a camera go off in hogan's face causing him to be blinded and giving yoko the advantage... That was something I never got at the time, they had that happen and then it was forgotten about almost immediately (though now it's obvious why since hogan actually left then, changing the course of wrestling history forever).

Anyways, at the time I was actually excited for the ending because I was pissed that Bret lost and glad that Yoko didn't get away with it in the end. So from a kids point of view it was cool, though I still wanted Bret to walk away in the end as victorious because Hogan had already started to get tiring for many reasons, including a shitty feud with Sid, a lack of a match with Flair, and an OBVIOUS lack of steroids made him a less dominant figure by that time (it was just weird to look at, at the time).

I'm not sure what could have been done differently because ultimately it did work out pretty well with Bret getting vindication a year later (though not as convincing as it could have been, was not a fan of the slipping off the rope with roddy piper possibly hitting it ending). I did like that Bret had yoko beat and he had to cheat to win, it did help set up bret, but then switching attention to hogan yoko kind of killed that. Bret did come back but it did take another year, but it led to an amazing feud with his brother Owen as well.

So i've been rambling, and am kind of delirious right now so i apologize... guess my point is, at the time I marked out at the end of WM9 and it's still one of my favs, though in hindsight, I do think things could have been better, maybe if hulk didn't just have a shitty program with beefcake against Money Inc and instead JUST came back and wasn't seen for a while I'd have appreciated it much more.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Didn't yoko have to cheat to beat hulk hogan... some cameraman had a camera go off in hogan's face causing him to be blinded and giving yoko the advantage... That was something I never got at the time, they had that happen and then it was forgotten about almost immediately (though now it's obvious why since hogan actually left then, changing the course of wrestling history forever).

Anyways, at the time I was actually excited for the ending because I was pissed that Bret lost and glad that Yoko didn't get away with it in the end. So from a kids point of view it was cool, though I still wanted Bret to walk away in the end as victorious because Hogan had already started to get tiring for many reasons, including a shitty feud with Sid, a lack of a match with Flair, and an OBVIOUS lack of steroids made him a less dominant figure by that time (it was just weird to look at, at the time).

I'm not sure what could have been done differently because ultimately it did work out pretty well with Bret getting vindication a year later (though not as convincing as it could have been, was not a fan of the slipping off the rope with roddy piper possibly hitting it ending). I did like that Bret had yoko beat and he had to cheat to win, it did help set up bret, but then switching attention to hogan yoko kind of killed that. Bret did come back but it did take another year, but it led to an amazing feud with his brother Owen as well.

So i've been rambling, and am kind of delirious right now so i apologize... guess my point is, at the time I marked out at the end of WM9 and it's still one of my favs, though in hindsight, I do think things could have been better, maybe if hulk didn't just have a shitty program with beefcake against Money Inc and instead JUST came back and wasn't seen for a while I'd have appreciated it much more.

The WWF was a real depressing product during that time period by comparison to its glory years of the 80s. Granted, I was loving every minute of the WWF at that time as a kid, but look at it like this. The Ultimate Warrior came back to the WWF in 1992 after his departure from the company in the summer of 1991 (since Hogan was going on hiatus, I guess Vince felt desperate and gave Warrior a second chance) only to leave again! That screwed up a LOT of stuff, I had heard weak rumors that Warrior was going to be set up into a program with Bret Hart for the World Title but it never happened as we know. Also, Vince had the feds on his ass for YEARS, just because his steroid trial was in 1994 and that's when most of the attention of course was on this situation it still took years for this case to be built and of course Vince damn well knew the feds were on to him. Therefore I can only imagine things for him personally were getting to be stressful had some effect on the product. So therefore who they were going to have be the standard bearer with Hogan's inactive status and Warrior's erratic reliability it's obviously screwed up the dynamic of the company, and despite Hogan's lack of prominence his absence definitely affected the product and therefore when he came back it meant a lot to the fans at the time.

As far as Yokozuna cheating to get the belt back from Hogan, well that's what heels do. Superstar Billy Graham did that to Bruno Sammartino, The Miz did that to Randy Orton, The Undertaker did that to Hulk Hogan and hell Hulk Hogan did that to The Giant (Big Show). Look at it this way, Yokozuna lost the title in the first place under controversial circumstances, so that whole thing balanced itself out.

It's like TUFFY54 said, we are fans and not bookers, we of course can have issue with things we don't like and that's our right to do so, but considering that we're not a part of the creative process, we really don't know why decisions were made the way they were. It's easy for people to want to blame Hulk Hogan for this whole scenario but at the end of the day it's still Vince's company and I find it very hard to believe that even a star like Hulk Hogan (who was at the tail end of his stint in WWF) was going to just tell Vince what to do. As far as the poster that said it took Yoko sometime to get built back up, no it didn't. It was only two months and he got the title back at King Of The Ring, the same event where Bret won the King Of The Ring, a pretty cool accomplishment in itself at the time. Honestly, people are ignoring one strong possibility in all of this:

Vince did not want to have Bret Hart with the title, he wanted Yokozuna to have it, trust me as I have said before, just because I have given the theories I have for this issue doesn't mean I agree on everything about it. It's just the way things worked out and knowing the who about this situation is not enough. The what, where and why is something we're all oblivious too and I think that's an important thing to take away from this topic.

 

[mancpenguin]

I've got a question: when the hell did we all become bookers instead of fans. Watch WrestleMania 9, you'll notice that everyone cheered and went crazy when Hogan won the title. As a little Hulkamaniac, I went crazy when he won the belt out of nowhere. Lets not forget that Hogan was still the most popular wrestler of all time at Mania 9. I guess you guys were right. Bret Hart was a total flop as a wrestler and never accomplished anything in the business because Hogan beat Yoko after his match. Give me a break with that shit.

If Stone Cold had come out and stunned Miz to win the belt at Mania 27, would you all say he was an selfish piece of shit trying to ruin the business?

Here's the facts about Mania 9:

-Hogan was the biggest star in the company.

-The fans at the show went home happy.

-Millions of Hogan fans watching on PPV were happy to see him beat the evil Yokozuna.

-Yoko and Bret turned out just fine.

Whats the problem?

I still remember the ending of this Wrestlemania. I was at High School (that's how old it is), and we talked about the ending of the show. We didn't understand it then & it's still an awful ending to the Pay Per View.

How could they ended the Pay Per View and keep everyone happy ? Simple - have Yokozuna win the title as he did then try to continue the beat down on Bret Hart. Hogan could have jumped in save Bret from further injury - kicking the new champion out the ring and helping Bret back to his feet. Yokozuna would have been upset his title party was ruined and challenged Hogan to a later match.

A Hogan/Hart match up would have been well worth seeing - A Hogan tapping out to Bret Hart would have been a true passing the torch moment. A flash in the face with an exploding camera isn't !

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Remember though, the original plan was NOT for Bret to walk out of WM10 as the Champion and top guy in WWF... Lex was supposed to ge getting that, but he got drunk and blabbed to fans the night before, hence his burial the following night... That it worked out how it did is more luck than judgement... Had Luger kept schtum then we could have easily seen WCW destroy WWF over the following years... or Luger could have been as big as Hogan...

 

[Big Sexy]

I understand that Hogan was the top draw. Typically I am all for putting the belt on your top draw. HOWEVER, Hogan wasn't a big part of the shows. Hogan's not at every show. So basically you shit on the guys who ARE at every show, so why would people tune in to see the "B talent" on Raw?

I really appreciate all the efforts to defend this, because usually I'm defending the WWE making decisions soley on drawing power (smart business). However, this was a case of them stunting the growth of their future. You could say that Yoko ended up fine but it took a long time to build him back up, same for Bret. I think that they took 1 step foreward, then 2 steps back. Having Bret beat Yoko would have been 1 step back, but then 2 steps foreward.

Hogan wasn't a big part of RAW, in fact he only appeared once or twice to my memory, but you have to remember that RAW had only been around for a few months at this time and the show was nothing like it is today. A lot of the top talent didn't wrestle on a weekly basis and when they did it was usually against a jobber or low mid carder. PPV's were still where all the money was at so why not have your biggest draw ever have one final title defense on ppv before departing the company?

As far as stunting the growth of Yoko and Hart, I don't see that at all. Yoko was only without the belt for two months and the entire he was built as a guy who was ready to get his revenge and retake the title. At KOTR he did just that and beating Hogan for the title made him 100x more credible then just beating Hart would have.

Hart also took a step forward in all of this. Obviously beating Hogan would have been better but Hogan didn't want that to happen so this was the next best thing. Hart may have been a 1 time world champion before but he was never seen as "the man" because he didn't have that signature victory. Throughout the year he won the KOTR and the Royal Rumble and finally got his revenge on Yoko at Mania 10 and this time Yoko was a much bigger deal and the win did a lot more for Hart.

Remember though, the original plan was NOT for Bret to walk out of WM10 as the Champion and top guy in WWF... Lex was supposed to ge getting that, but he got drunk and blabbed to fans the night before, hence his burial the following night... That it worked out how it did is more luck than judgement... Had Luger kept schtum then we could have easily seen WCW destroy WWF over the following years... or Luger could have been as big as Hogan...

This rumor has been dispelled by many including Luger himself. He was never scheduled to win the title it was going to be Hart the whole time.

 

[RicoLen]

Hogan wasn't a big part of RAW, in fact he only appeared once or twice to my memory, but you have to remember that RAW had only been around for a few months at this time and the show was nothing like it is today. A lot of the top talent didn't wrestle on a weekly basis and when they did it was usually against a jobber or low mid carder. PPV's were still where all the money was at so why not have your biggest draw ever have one final title defense on ppv before departing the company?

Loved what you've said up to this point but what you're talking about here is the way things were done on Prime Time Wrestling. When Raw started it was all about the best talent fighting against the best talent. There were no jobbers on Raw, not for a long time. Prime Time Wrestling was 2 hours and had 3 big matches followed by squashes against jobbers. Raw was 3 matches in 1 hour and they were always against equal talent, if not top draws.

I will never forget the Perfect vs Flair career match on Raw. After that happened I just knew it was a matter of time before Perfect would take the world title... f**king Luger. I wish Hennig had never entered into that feud.


I share your opinion on the rest.

 

[Big Sexy]

Loved what you've said up to this point but what you're talking about here is the way things were done on Prime Time Wrestling. When Raw started it was all about the best talent fighting against the best talent. There were no jobbers on Raw, not for a long time. Prime Time Wrestling was 2 hours and had 3 big matches followed by squashes against jobbers. Raw was 3 matches in 1 hour and they were always against equal talent, if not top draws.

I will never forget the Perfect vs Flair career match on Raw. After that happened I just knew it was a matter of time before Perfect would take the world title... f**king Luger. I wish Hennig had never entered into that feud.

That post is just wrong. Completely. RAW had the occasional big match like Flair vs Perfect but those were few and far between early on. Just look at the matches from the debut episode. Yoko vs Koko, Steiners vs Executioners, HBK vs Max Moon, Taker vs Damian Demento. Where are the equal talent matches? Where is the WWE's supposed top guy (Bret Hart)?

Glen Ruth, Brooklyn Brawler, Mike Sharpe, Bobby Who, Scott Taylor, Barry Hardy, Duane Gill, ect... Those are just some jobbers from the first couple months of episodes. On almost every episode when RAW was starting out there was at least one jobber and almost every match was a mismatch.

Here's the matches from the first RAW after Mania 9. Bam Bam Bigelow def Virgil, Bob Backlund def Kim Chee, Damien Demento def Jim Brunzell, The Steiner Brothers def The Beverly Brothers, Jerry Lawler def Jim Powers.

Second RAW after Mania. The Steiner Brothers def Money Inc. by DQ, Tatanka def Skull Von Krush, Papa Shango def Scott Taylor, Friar Ferguson def Chris Duffy.

Third RAW after Mania. Razor Ramon def Virgil, Giant Gonzales def L.A. Gore, Tatanka def Art Thomas, Money Inc. def The Beverly Brothers, Bam Bam Bigelow def Phil Apollo.

I think you get the point.

Shit, Bret Hart didn't wrestle a match on RAW until its 7th episode and he had only wrestled two matches on the show prior to Wrestlemania 9. Both being against Fatu.

 

[RicoLen]

Hmmm... seems you're right... looks like this is a case of things being better in your memory than in reality. I specifically remember and talking about with my friends at that point in time that there were no jobbers since Raw started, and we all agreed it was true. To be honest though up until a year or so ago I could have sworn up and down that Perfect vs Flair was on the very first Raw too.

I stand corrected. I just can't get over how much my memory has gotten fuzzed over the years. lol

Wait a minute, Max Moon vs HBK was on Raw? Are you SURE? I mean, I'm not calling you out exactly, I've already proved my memory isn't perfect but holy crap I KNOW that was on Prime Time Wrestling... I'd even say that was on the prime time where Perfect turned face. Gah... that's bad. lol