Worst Shoot Promo

[TUFFY54]

While they have gone by the wayside today, ten years ago many people thought a "shoot" promo was the best way to get someone over. For those of you not familar with it, a shoot promo is when someone talks about something the fans haven't seen happen on the wrestling show. Personal lives, backstage politics, and other companys are usually the main target. I have never really been a fan of shoot promos. I believe that if the on camera storylines aren't enough to get someone over you need to hire new writers. You don't need to bring things up that most fans have no clue about. Overall, these types of promos tend to hurt the business because most fans either don't understand them, or they make pro wrestling look fake. Who do you think gave the worst, most damaging, shoot promo in wrestling history? Here is my pick:

Vince Russo Unfortunalty, I can't narrow it down to a single promo, because he hurt the business every time he opened his mouth.

-Having Jarrett lay down for Hogan and telling the fans it's because Hogan wont drop the belt.
-Saying that Goldberg wont wrestle tonight because he wants to use creative controll to not get pinned.
-Telling the fans that WCW brought him in to fix storylines because the company sucked.

These are just a few of Russo's worst moments. You probably noticed a theme here. Russo doesn't think you can have a storyline without letting all the fans know that its a storyline. Ideally, fans should have no idea about writers and storylines. They should think that everything that happens in wrestling is a result of either things that happend in the ring, people not liking each other, or someone wanting a title. The fact that someone is writting a wrestling show should never occur to them. Every time Russo cut a WCW promo, he basically told everyone that wrestling was totally fake, and that the real matches were held in the pre show booking office. If there is a worse thing someone can say on a wrestling show, I certainly haven't heard it.

 

[dman1373]

yeah i agree completely, you can say stuff about back stage politics, people in real life, the competition, and even backstage problems, but you never tell the people about what happends in those ropes are fake, or that its a predetermined outcome. Its just so fucking stupid.

I personally didn't watch the wcw ppv's at that time because I was young and only had enough money for one ppv a month. I would just flip over every once and a while to wcw as I wasn't the biggest fan. So I didn't watch any of this at the time, so I latter came back and watched it and man I might have stopped watching back then, if I saw this.

 

[UltimateHitman]

You are pretty good at nailing things down, gotta hand it to you. Don't think there was anything I could argue against in this post, much like the TNA thread. Only thing I can think of would be that in a very rare, unique situation it could add a little spice to the product, but certainly not in the way Russo did it (just as you pointed out).
I think Bischoff was pretty bad about this too, especially in the WCW days. When he would come out and challenge Vince, or give away spoilers, he might have thought it was captivating and "bad ass", but honestly it just made him look bitter.
Not to say Vince hasn't done similar things. When he gets a burr up his ass about something, the Nuggets situation for example, he likes to poke fun and cut a promo about it. I think a well placed subtle jab or two would suffice, not beating the point to death.
That being said, I'd have to go with you on the Russo stance. I honestly can't believe the guy's still writing. And he has had some of the most horrible shoots and ideas (Oklahoma) that I think I've ever seen this side of the Gobbledy Gooker.

 

[TUFFY54]

You are pretty good at nailing things down, gotta hand it to you. Don't think there was anything I could argue against in this post, much like the TNA thread. Only thing I can think of would be that in a very rare, unique situation it could add a little spice to the product, but certainly not in the way Russo did it (just as you pointed out).
I think Bischoff was pretty bad about this too, especially in the WCW days. When he would come out and challenge Vince, or give away spoilers, he might have thought it was captivating and "bad ass", but honestly it just made him look bitter.
Not to say Vince hasn't done similar things. When he gets a burr up his ass about something, the Nuggets situation for example, he likes to poke fun and cut a promo about it. I think a well placed subtle jab or two would suffice, not beating the point to death.
That being said, I'd have to go with you on the Russo stance. I honestly can't believe the guy's still writing. And he has had some of the most horrible shoots and ideas (Oklahoma) that I think I've ever seen this side of the Gobbledy Gooker.

I forgot about Oklahoma! That had to be one of the most distasteful things ever done is wrestling. It's kind of funny that Jim Ross is now a millionare Hall of Famer, who is considered to be one of the best play by play men in in the history of wrestling. While Ed Ferrara (Oklahoma) is remembered as the asshole who played Oklahoma.

 

[Hitman-HBK United Inc.]

I know this is an old school forum, but I'd even go as recent as Jarrett and Nash's promos back in the summer. I may hate Jarrett, but I've always thought Nash was pretty good on the mic, but it was basically watching Abe Vigoda & Ernest Borgnine discussing the chemichals of there medication!

But if we're talking years back, I'd say anything in WCW from 1999 'til when it ended.

 

[Pestilence]

I would say Ted Hart (I know this is an old school forum, sorry) gave the worst shoot promo. It was almost hard to watch, due to his constant bashing of Punk, the unnecessary rhyming, and all of his bitching and moaning. It came across more like a worked promo than a shoot, which I find offensive to the fans and the business.

 

[czar76]

The problem with a shoot is it is never clear if it is really a shoot. There's an old saying when it comes to wrestling, "believe half of what u see and none of what u hear". I think that holds true to most "shoots" in wrestling. The odds that someone is going to be allowed to come out and say what they want is pretty slim. I've been watching wrestling for many years and there are ways to tell(maybe) if it's real or not.
First if the person talking disapears off t.v. for a while then u might have a real shoot. Or if it clear that the script sucks they may go a different direction but for the most part I think most shoots are "worked Shoots". Someone is told to go out and talk about something that may or may not be real.

The worst example of this to me was Tank Abbott during the last days of wcw. One week he had a match with sid for the title, tank lost. The next week he comes out and tells everyone that he was told to tap to sid so that's what he did. We all knew in a real fight Sid had no chance but it wasn't a real fight and everyone knew it. Why insult the fans by reminding them that it isn't real?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I actually think the worst Shoot was Bret Hart back when he turned on the American fans... Looking back at the documentary, he was telling his true feelings yet he seemed to be edging his bets with the promo... he used political stuff like Health Care rather than getting to the nub of his problems...

 

[iamcountrymusic]

Shooting during any promo doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Outside of the ring is different. If you're wanting someone to believe a storyline, why would you ruin that by telling the fans its fake. Regardless if we know it is or not, you don't see actors on other shows breaking the 4th wall.

But I definitely have to say any of the shoots involving Hogan past and present. He says In the Self Destruction of The Ultimate Warrior that breaking kayfabe is the biggest no no in the wrestling business and its something that you just don't do. And when he said that I was floored by how hypocritical that was. He would shoot in WCW and now wants TNA to shoot.
The time he referred to was when Warrior wore one of his Warrior hats in the ring. It seemed to me Warrior wasn't breaking kayfabe or shooting, he was showing "The Little Warriors at home" his support and appreciation of them.
An exception of an instance of Hogan shooting was when he said to Russo "that's why this company is going in the shitter.". It was the truth and didn't expose the business as much as Reaction or even Impact does.

There's times where shooting in promos doesn't make the storyline lose its believability, such as Roddy Piper saying he was "shooting" about Chris Jericho showing no respect to the Legends during the feud at Wrestlemania 25. Most of the viewers probably didn't know what he meant.

Shooting that exposes the business shouldn't be a storyline AND ESPECIALLY not a new direction for any company because it just doesn't make sense. The cast of Glee doesn't break kayfabe, John Stamos didn't break kayfabe on Full House and wrestlers shouldn't in promos.
Outside the ring and in real life yes. In character or on tv no.

 

[MancMark]

I'm thinking Russo after JJ had laid down for Hogan. Real or not, it was hard to have any good feeling towards a man who was for the better part a self obsessed idiot. Sympathy for the devil? Not a fucking chance.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I actually think the worst Shoot was Bret Hart back when he turned on the American fans... Looking back at the documentary, he was telling his true feelings yet he seemed to be edging his bets with the promo... he used political stuff like Health Care rather than getting to the nub of his problems...

I see what you're getting at, and I'm not saying this simply as a Bret fan, but I think he meant more about shooting about different people specifically and personally, and/or about the business. The whole thing w/Bret "shooting" on America, was that it had to do w/the storyline and it was actually great at getting heat. I'm sure the Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff could have legitimately felt that Iran and/or Russia were superior to the USA, but it was also an integral part of their characters. Hell, I actually even found myself agreeing w/half of what Hart said to be honest. lol
But when your character is supposed to be an anti-American, you're going to take things like that, personal opinion or not, especially if it's things that the general population think or debate frequently amongst the different cultures, and utilize them to your advantage.
It's kind of like going to a town and the heel bashes the residents and city they're in. I'm sure some of the guys cutting those promos feel that way towards certain aspects of the city, or that city's sports teams, etc. etc. and utilize that in order to elicit a reaction.

I did think of an instance where I thought it actually worked, and that was the Matt/Edge/Lita thing. There was a professionalism, forced or not, between the two during that time where the audience, who knew what had happened, were actually almost rabidly involved in that storyline. And those two did end up having some pretty good matches during that period, as well as Lita garnering legitimately huge heat for what she did.

That being said, I still think Russo takes the award for worst shoot promo ever. Now the hard thing would be picking one of his out of the many that was the worst because I think they all stunk pretty equally.

P.S. Thumbs up to iamcountrymusic for mentioning that part about Hogan being hypocritical. I had forgotten about that, but basically thought the same thing when I saw/heard it. It's like hearing Kevin Nash call somebody a lazy worker or saying they don't care about the business.

One more side note: Another instance I thought a shoot-type scenario worked was when DX "invaded" the Norfolk Scope. Just something about that segment was pulled off in a way that made it work.

So Russo takes the Gold, Bischoff the silver, and Hogan rounds out the last spot with the Bronze. Ironic they are the ones in charge of TNA at the present time...

 

[The Eighties]

Vince Russo is on a level of his own when it comes to the worked shoot, on a smaller scale I also hate when Triple H puts those smug little shoot comments into some of his stuff when he's part of DX.

Triple H semi shooting on Cena in the build up to Wrestlemania 22 actually worked in favour of the angle, and Jim Cornette's shoots in the build up to the NWA invasion angle were great as he toed the line just right.

The time he referred to was when Warrior wore one of his Warrior hats in the ring. It seemed to me Warrior wasn't breaking kayfabe or shooting, he was showing "The Little Warriors at home" his support and appreciation of them.

That was Lawler who commented about the angle he did with Warrior where he painted a picture of Warrior and ended up smashing it over his head. In the segment where he presented it to Warrior he came out not looking like the Ultimate Warrior, with his hair tied back and a cap on, Lawlers point was that it was just stupid business, Warrior was not meant to look like a regular Joe, he was meant to come out like he had for a decade.

Hogan's comments on Warrior were about his dreadful WCW run, where on the first night he said to Hogan "I'm not here to beat you because everyone has already done that" which as Hogan pointed out was a stupid thing to say when you are trying to sell a PPV match between the two.

 

[pessimism101]

The worst shoot would be the one done by Doug Gilbert in Memphis Wrestling in 1999. The things he mentioned included mentioning that Jerry Lawler was Brian Christopher's father (which was not supposed to be mentioned on air), accusing Randy Hales (a booker) of smoking crack, and accusing Jerry Lawler of raping a 13-year-old girl. Not only were his comments disrespectful and unprofessional, but Memphis wrestling was thrown off the air as a result of it.

There may have been worst shoot promos before and since, but none of them instantly destroyed a company this this one.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The worst shoot would be the one done by Doug Gilbert in Memphis Wrestling in 1999. The things he mentioned included mentioning that Jerry Lawler was Brian Christopher's father (which was not supposed to be mentioned on air), accusing Randy Hales (a booker) of smoking crack, and accusing Jerry Lawler of raping a 13-year-old girl. Not only were his comments disrespectful and unprofessional, but Memphis wrestling was thrown off the air as a result of it.

There may have been worst shoot promos before and since, but none of them instantly destroyed a company this this one.

Yea... it didn't destroy the company. And only one of those things were false. How disturbing is that?

Shoots, for the most part, were worked. Which meant that although there was truth to it, it was known beforehand that it would be talked about. So anything Vince Russo said during the dying days of Nitro was pure shit.

However, people like Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash were the worst. They'd disrespect guys like Flair, Piper, and the Four Horsemen, yet without those guys, there would be NO Nitro. Nash and Steiner, as entertaining as they were for some, didn't draw much money... nor near the money that Flair and the Horsemen could draw.

Ignorance is bliss... and that's why any 'shoot' from Nash or Steiner could be taken and put on the top of this list.

Let's not forget Shane Douglas. Who single handedly destroyed the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship with a ******ed promo inside a bingo hall with his shoot on the NWA Title and how he was bitter because Flair, a 100 times better wrestler, kept him down.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Vince Russo hands down. Towards the end of WCW, Russo was an absolute joke. Why he felt the need to tell the fans about creative control and the backstage goings on in the company is beyond me. Fans watch wrestling as escapist entertainment, we know its scripted and the outcomes pre-determined but Russo just went out to shatter these illusions, probably ruined the shows for younger fans, pissed off the older more knowledgable fans and there was no need for it whatsoever.

It just made him look like a cunt

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The honour should go to Vince Russo for actually thinking that the shoot at Bash at The Beach 2000 was a great idea. The problem with Russo's shooting style was that Russo thought that everyone in the audience was a smark and knew stuff such as the creative control card and all. The fact is even some smarks don't know about this stuff. When Russo started he seemed like a lunatic to most fans. He probably made sense to a grand total of four people in the audience and also changed the main event of the show at the last minute.

The eventual main event of the show with Booker T and Jarrett wrestling for the title was not too bad and Booker winning was a must see event for a WCW fan. But the problem was that it was not advertised and it would not have drawn in those fans who badly wanted to see Booker win the title.

To an extent I understand what Russo was aiming for. He wanted to make it clear that not a single moment of his show could be missed. But you are supposed to do that with riveting booking and not nonsensical surprises. That is something, I guess, Russo does not understand even now.

 

[Next Jericho]

I personally am a fan off a good shoot promo as they are a good glimpse into the backstage off wrestling. But I am not a fan off a shoot promo that just goes to far to insult the fans for example most off Vince Russo's shoots promo's on how he made a guy like Jarrett lie down to Hogan because Hogan won't drop the belt . Now shoots like these are insulting to the fans and wrestlers alike as it just screams wrestling is fake and it is all booked and if somebody is watching this then will not understand this unless they are into backstage politics which most fans are not.