Worse Champion: Honky Tonk Man or Tommy Rich?

[It's...Baylariat!]

This is a question that just came to me. Now, the Honky Tonk Man was only Intercontinental Champion, but he was during a time where that belt was as important as the World Heavyweight Title is today. And he held the title for over a year. A year. He faced Macho Man Randy Savage, Jake Roberts, Ricky Steamboat, and other worthy foes and he STILL managed to keep his belt warm for the Ultimate Warrior.

Now, Tommy Rich. You may ask if Tommy Rich ever won a title. Well, not only did he win a title, he won THE title in his day. The NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship. In the early 80's. Against Harley Race. Tell me that doesn't look awesome on paper. Well, the back story makes this a great case for being a terrible champion. Rich didn't belong near the NWA Title. Sure he was young and charismatic, but not worthy of a title shot against Harley Race. But Race wasn't playing ball with Georgia promoters and promoter Jim Barnett had the referee give a fast count to Race and have the title change hands to Rich. But the NWA wouldn't stand for that and had Race win the belt back from Rich 4 days later. Now, Rich was a great young star, feuding in Georgia and Memphis. His feuds with Ole Anderson and Buzz Sawyer made him a legit star in the early 80's. But he was too young to win the NWA Title and many consider him to be the worst NWA champion of all time. Even worse than Ron Killings? Christian Cage? Really?

Anyway the question beckons...who's the worst champion? Honky Tonk Man or Tommy Rich?

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh it's Rich by far. Honky was really a great champion. He drew a ton of money for one reason: everyone was hoping to see him lose because the luck couldn't last forever. In other words, you would pay to see the heel lose. That's the definition of a character over as a heel. That's perfect and the sign of a great champion.

Depending on who you ask, the Rich title reign might have been a way to get the fans excited or a screwjob by the local promoter. I've heard stories saying both are true. I leave Rich off the list of NWA champions for the most part. If I was grading their reigns, it would be an A for Honky and an N/A for Rich. Four days isn't a legit reign at all.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Oh it's Rich by far. Honky was really a great champion. He drew a ton of money for one reason: everyone was hoping to see him lose because the luck couldn't last forever. In other words, you would pay to see the heel lose. That's the definition of a character over as a heel. That's perfect and the sign of a great champion.

Depending on who you ask, the Rich title reign might have been a way to get the fans excited or a screwjob by the local promoter. I've heard stories saying both are true. I leave Rich off the list of NWA champions for the most part. If I was grading their reigns, it would be an A for Honky and an N/A for Rich. Four days isn't a legit reign at all.

That's the difference. Honky Tonk Man was a guy who you hated and wanted to see lose. He even headlined a few house shows back in the day with Macho Man and Jake the Snake Roberts. But he was only the IC champion. Despite how his reign came about and how long it lasted, not many can say they won the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship from Harley Race. Rich can. I think the stories on how Rich was champion can both be true. Sure they wanted the belt off of Race for conflicting reasons, but many promoters thought Rich would be a great draw. He was not. Hence why he was made to drop the belt back to Race. The thing is... Lawler, Hogan, Savage, and Hansen were never NWA World Heavyweight Champions. Tommy Rich was.

But Honky was a better champion for drawing money and actually having a lengthy reign. Rich didn't even get the chance to prove he could draw money with the belt.

 

[PEP3]

This is the old addage of comparing apples to oranges. Not only are we dealing with the NWA World Heavyweight Title and the Intercontinental Championship, we're also talking about a four day reign and 14 months, one that remains, to this day, the longest IC reign in history.

Rumors about the Georgia promoters screwing Harley Race and giving the belt to Tommy Rich don't hold much water with me. Historically speaking, various regional performers throughout history have up-ended the NWA World champion only to have their title reign stricken from the records and the belt placed back on the original champ as soon as he returned to NWA's home territories. There are examples of this in Japan and Puerto Rico, not to mention right here in the U.S., so it does not make sense that the NWA would somehow allow Rich to have the belt for four days and not do the same if he weren't intended to get the title.

At the time, throughout Georgia and several other adjacent territories, Tommy Rich was a white-hot young performer showing tremendous talent and promise for the future. He was the equivalent of a younger Dusty Rhodes, who himself had unseated Race a couple times for very short title reigns in the late-70s. It's entirely possible the NWA would give Rich a brief reign, a good-faith showing of what might come in the future, just to see how their affiliated territories would respond. My suspicion is they immediately balked at having to put their own local champions into matches against a relative newcomer; it wouldn't draw as much as having their own local hero facing the proven talent and mega-heel of "Handsome" Harley Race. So NWA backpeddled quickly.

The situation with The Honky Tonk Man was entirely different. While fans genuinely believed Rich could upset Race for the title, nobody gave HTM a snowball's chance against Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat when they faced for the Intercontinental title. First of all, Steamboat had just come off the Match-of-the-Year against Savage at WrestleMania and was on a tare. HTM was just some Elvis knock-off with no real visible talent. When he rolled Steamboat up for the 1-2-3 on national TV, I remember being utterly stunned! (Yes, I watched it in first-run on a Saturday morning.)

Over the coming months, he defended that belt against any and all comers. Sometimes he managed to Shake, Rattle & Roll his way to fairly legit wins. Most of the time, he was getting himself DQed or cheating to steal the victory. The longer he had the belt, the more people were begging to see him lose. It was brilliant!

In many ways, he amassed the same kind of streak Goldberg did...in reverse. Whereas Goldberg was built up as invincible, with fans waiting to not only see who his next victim would be but when he would face Hogan for the title, the HTM was the exact opposite. He was built to be a marginally talented performer who used everything in his grasp to stay on top. And he did it beautifully!

Where are you going to find a performer willing to make himself so weak for the sake of a storyline? I remember watching Honky Tonk face people like Jim Powers -- a muscular young man with sufficient in-ring skills, but an enhancement talent at best -- and making him look like a million bucks. When he could barely slip past by the skin of his teeth with a guy like that, how could someone like Jake "The Snake" Roberts, "Macho Man" Randy Savage or Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat not take the belt from him? And yet, they couldn't.

It was well over a year after he won the belt that Honky Tonk dropped the IC title to The Ultimate Warrior in something like 48 seconds. It was done and over with, with Honky unable to even think, much less cheat his way to victory (or a DQ loss). One of history's greatest championship-related storylines had come to an end.

Between Rich and Honky Tonk, who's the worse champ? While I don't think it's a fair question at all, the answer is obvious. From a viewer's perspective, the HTM was an incredible champ. The booking made him look weak, but that was the genius of it. I personally enjoyed watching as each week he found new and even more convoluted ways of holding onto the belt.

Too bad they didn't think of that for Rich. He'd have more than those four days in 1981 to remember as champ.

 

[The Con Volt]

But he was too young to win the NWA Title and many consider him to be the worst NWA champion of all time. Even worse than Ron Killings? Christian Cage? Really?

Way to completely contradict your own question. Let me get this straight, you're asking If Honky Tonk or Tommy Rich was a worse champion, yet you're making it clear that you think R-truth and Christian were worse than at least Tommy Rich. Hmm.. doesn't really make any sense to me. But I'll play ball. Im gonna say Honky Tonk due to the Bias I have against his AWFUL character. People do indeed love to see a heel lose after no more than 2 or 3 successful defenses. Any more and you run the chance of actually turning that heel into a face.( A La Hell in a cell, Orton vs. Cena)

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't really think its a fair question overall. Now, some could say that Rich was superior simply because he happened to win a world championship whereas Honky didn't. I don't exactly buy into that type of logic personally since winning a world title doesn't automatically bring greatness to the wrestler holding it.

There's no way I can consider Tommy Rich to be a greater champion than the Honky Tonk Man. I'm not overly wild about the HTM, but I've got to give the man props. He's still the longest reigning IC champ in history, he won the title during a time when it was almost as coveted as the WWF Championship, he helped draw a lot of money as champion and people still talk about his reign today.

Tommy Rich was NWA World Heavyweight Champion for 4 days, which tends to rank as one of the more forgetable reigns in the title's history. Your average wrestling fan probably has no idea Tommy Rich was NWA Champion. There are all sorts of rumors going around that Race was screwed out of the title and all this and that. While I don't necessarily believe them, those rumors cast even more of a shadow over Rich's 4 day run.

Tommy Rich's NWA Championship reign is an interesting little part of wrestling trivia, wheras the Honky Tonk Man's 14 month reign as WWF Intercontinental Champion is among the most memorable and well known runs with any title of the past 25 years.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Way to completely contradict your own question.

I was asking who was a worse champion, Tommy Rich or Honky Tonk Man, and I chimed in and said that Tommy Rich, despite his long reign is still better than Ron Killings and Christian Cage. How does that contradict anything?

Let me get this straight, you're asking If Honky Tonk or Tommy Rich was a worse champion, yet you're making it clear that you think R-truth and Christian were worse than at least Tommy Rich.

Yes. Yes I am.

Hmm.. doesn't really make any sense to me.

Fair enough.

But I'll play ball.

Much appreciated.

I'm gonna say Honky Tonk due to the Bias I have against his AWFUL character.

This is one of the reasons I LIKED HTM. It was so corny, it was brilliant. He wasn't anything over the top. Just an Elvis impersonator who was a great heel.

People do indeed love to see a heel lose after no more than 2 or 3 successful defenses.

Actually, fans love to see the heel NEARLY lose and him sneak out a win. That way they can tune in again and see if he does get beat. And when that finally happens, the rafters shake. But 2 or 3 title defenses? Really? That's not a long reign at all.

Any more and you run the chance of actually turning that heel into a face.( A La Hell in a cell, Orton vs. Cena)

The main difference in Old School Wrestling and the wrestling of today is the structure of rivalries. Typically, in the older days, the heel was sneaky, deceiving, and managed to find a way to take the easy way out and sneak attack their rival with help. Now, the heel's supposed to be unstable, bitter, and mad at the world. That's not a heel. That's a nutcase. That's why many wanted to see Orton beat Cena. Cena's simply not been against a legit heel since Edge was injured.

 

[NSL]

Without a doubt, I'd say Tommy Rich. Honky Tonk Man was a comedy champ, but the length of that reign is impressive by anyone's standards. His wins were almost all DQs, count-outs, and other dirty finishes, but they were still entertaining. The way it started and ended was also great.

Tommy Rich was so bad they made him drop one of the biggest belts in history after 4 days. There's really no comparison.

Many consider him to be the worst NWA champion of all time. Even worse than Ron Killings? Christian Cage? Really?

I'll agree "Killings: NWA Champ" doesn't sound right, but in storyline, it was OK. I also happened to be a big fan of Christian as champ...

 

[JJohns]

Without a doubt, I have to say "Wildfire" Tommy Rich was the worse champion. Going based on what another poster said, not many people know that Tommy Rich was even NWA Champion. I'll go out on a limb to say that not many people know who Tommy Rich is. The mark of a great champion is whether or not he will still be remembered. HTM is just that.

 

[The Con Volt]

The main difference in Old School Wrestling and the wrestling of today is the structure of rivalries. Typically, in the older days, the heel was sneaky, deceiving, and managed to find a way to take the easy way out and sneak attack their rival with help. Now, the heel's supposed to be unstable, bitter, and mad at the world. That's not a heel. That's a nutcase.

GOOD POINT. I think we can blame that on Brian Pillman, god rest his soul. Considering one of the top heel moves now a days is to put a faces arm or leg in a chair and crush it. AKA the pillmanizer, or whatever it is they call it. Despite the controversy of "Pillman's got a gun", you have to say, that he is now the archetype of modern heels. HHH did the same thing to Orton that austin did to Pillman. Broke into his house. So I think I've made my point. They WANT heels to be more menacing than the old days, because they think thats the only way they can get any heat, which just ain't so. Guys like Honky, Ravishing, and Big John were able to get heat by being tricksters. Eddie Guerrero's last character would have gotten him MAJOR heat in the 80's, but now, the lyin' cheatin' and stealin' character is cheerable.

 

[WHATWHATWHAT]

Well for the record, I will just say that The Honky Tonk Man was not a bad champ at all. Second, how does someone who holds the longest reign with that title and make it significant even get mentioned in a worse champion category? I am not trying to debate even though this is what makes it a forum. But even though I like him Kane held the title over night. He lost it 24 hours later to Stone Cold in a rematch that If you used the restroom you missed the match.( I was a stone cold fan at the time). Rich held it 4 days thats 3 more than Kane. Honky Tonk Man had people fighting him like he was the heavyweight champ. What do you think is worse.... being the hunted and you don't even hold the heavyweight belt or having the belt for the length of a bus ride from NY to LA? Good question though but I really can't see how Honky tonk man is in a " who is worse champ?" question. Do not take offense in my statements this is my first post. I just wanted to share my opinion with you guys. Feel free to respond and once again just an opinion.

 

[Michael_Page]

Im gonna say Tommy Rich because people still talk about Honkey being the longest reigning IC champ in WWF/E history. There is a chunk of wrestling fans taht doesnt even know who Tommy rich is. Plus if you wanna count the time that he held the NWA title it wasnt even a full week. So it was obvious that the promoters didnt have faith in keeping the title around Tommy 'Wildfire" Rich.