World Wrestling Entertainment Without Hulk Hogan

[Ferbian]

Could WWE have gone mainstream without Hogan? Hulk Hogan is arguably the on-screen guy that took WWF/E to the world wide media company that it is today. Hogan is arguably the most over guy in the history of wrestling. He is one of the biggest draws as well.

I remember watching a video of Vince and Hulk Hogan arguing on SmackDown in 2003 (At least I think it was 2003). Hogan says he made the WWE what it is today. Vince told Hulk Hogan he could've given the Hogan gimmick to anybody.

So let's assume that Hulk Hogan never existed on Terry Bollea. If Hulk Hogan was truly given to someone else. Or much less Hulk Hogan was never given to anybody. Would it have worked?

I'm assuming that due to Ric Flair's massive popularity during the 80's as well. That WWF/E could easily have brought themselves to a mainstream point if they had gotten their hands on Ric Flair as well. But could it have worked in the same masses?

Was Terry Bollea and the Hulk Hogan gimmick really the only thing that could've brought WWE to the mainstream? Or could it be done some other way?

I always (mostly due to the fact that I never liked really liked Hulk Hogan) believed that Vince could've accomplished things with or without Hulk. As well as with someone else. Ric Flair perhaps. Or any other given talent that could've run with the ball and had the popularity to do so.

I believe any given person could potentially run with the same gimmick. Or if booked right with another gimmick could bring a company to new heights. Seeing as Vince has made WWE's top faces work with (basically) 3 different gimmicks. The American Hero. The American average man / Texas Redneck and the "Marine".

What do you think? Could WWE have worked without the Hulk Hogan gimmick? With the gimmick on someone else? or with a completely 3rd person with a completely different gimmick?

 

[Reddannihilation]

Nope. Hulk Hogan made wrestling what it is today. No one compares to the Hulkster and no one could've taken his place. Hulk Hogan was a one of a kind human being. When you think about how many guys there have been in wrestling history who had massive fan followings and who made people cheer not a single one could've done what Hulk Hogan did, people point to Steve Austin as being the only other person to reach the height Hulk Hogan did but even then it only worked because Hogan had done it previously. Without Hulk Hogan the WWF probably would've gone under or at the very least wouldn't be anywhere near as huge as it became, we wouldn't have had any of the 80's WWF events, the 90's with WWF and WCW wouldn't have worked either, it all comes back to Hogan.

So to answer your questions;

Could WWE have worked without the Hulk Hogan gimmick?


Not a chance.

With the gimmick on someone else?
Highly unlikely as Hogan was legitmately the total package, he had the perfect look, the mic. skills and his move-set, whilst limited, was something the crowd loved to see. No one else could compare, not even Savage.

or with a completely 3rd person with a completely different gimmick?

At best I could've seen Randy Savage taking his spot, but even then I doubt "ooooh yeaahhh" would've caught on as well as Hulkamania.

 

[dotty_84]

Nice thread Ferb.

I've thought about this lately after watching lots or Youtube stuff on NWO, Ultimate Warrior etc.

And Hogan throws this around alot. I'll disagree with Hogan yes he made it what it is although i believe at some stage in time The Wrestling boom was bound to happen. We all say Hogan this and that, aren't we forgetting about Andre for me without Andre Hogan wouldn't have half these bragging rights. 93 thousand came for both of them mainly though to see if someone smaller could topple this Giant. Hogan in ring isn't anything special i think Vince is right passing this gimmick to someone (bare in mind there'd be a select few and not just any wrestler could pull it off) else it would work.

Hogan brags about this so much. It's like he did wrestling a favour when in truth it really only did him a favour without that gimmick he'd be talked about like the Ultimate Warrior in my eyes. Simply it's this one gimmick that was bound to come along that made the wrestling boom it was a question of when it was to happen. Hogan right place right time.

 

[Stevepwwe]

As much as I don't like Hulk Hogan, he is a big part of what wrestling is today and there is nobody else who could have used the gimmick the same way. Just like there could have been no replacement for Ric Flair, Steve Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker, etc. It takes more than just being given a gimmick to succeed, it's all about who plays it and how they are individually.

 

[Tully]

I'm gonna say 'Yes, the WWE could've gone mainstream without HH'. But only if the rest of history stayed the same: I.E. SCSA, the Rock, HBK, and others still rising to the occasion to create the awesome Attitude Era, which was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania.

I was an NWA fan and watched the rise of the 4-Horsemen and thankfully completely missed out on the Hogan Era of the old WWF (since only the NWA was broadcast in upper-state SC in the mid 80s). I honestly don't understand why he became so huge. From what I've read and seen on video, he was like a big red&yellow version of Cena, sans crappy rap-hop music and stupid spinning title belt. Every match appeared to be the same: Hulk starts out slow, starts getting whupped, Hulks Up, dumb Leg Drop, 1-2-3-ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

He never could hold a candle to the mic work,charisma, and ring abilities of Flair.

And he owes much to Andre, the Sheik, and the other big heels of his day that helped him have some easy storylines. But there's no doubt he gave the WWE a huge jump into mainstream in the 80s. I just think that jump was bound to occur anyway with the aforementioned talent on the horizon.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Hogan brags about this so much. It's like he did wrestling a favour when in truth it really only did him a favour without that gimmick he'd be talked about like the Ultimate Warrior in my eyes.

Do you live in a fairytale where Hogan wasn't a massive star prior to joining the WWF? How would he be anything like the Warrior? Hogan isn't a deranged lunatic, Hogan made wrestling simple fact. You said in your post that the boom was bound to happen, how exactly would it have happened without the guy who made it happen? You think Andre the Giant could've been Hulk Andre? Hogan's success did not come solely from the WWF, people seem to forget how big he was in the AWA and how his appearance in Rocky 3 got his face out there to the public.

Simply it's this one gimmick that was bound to come along that made the wrestling boom it was a question of when it was to happen. Hogan right place right time.

Name one person Hogan's gimmick woul've worked on? Seriously, one.

I'm gonna say 'Yes, the WWE could've gone mainstream without HH'. But only if the rest of history stayed the same: I.E. SCSA, the Rock, HBK, and others still rising to the occasion to create the awesome Attitude Era, which was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania.

Except none of that would've stayed the same, because without Hogan wrestling doesn't become mainstream and those characters never come to be. Not to mention that Hogan had a lot to do with the Attitude Era, you know that little thing called the nWo.

He never could hold a candle to the mic work,charisma, and ring abilities of Flair.

Doesn't the fact that Hogan became so much more popular than Flair sort of question that, Hogan's promo's were excellent that's why so many people liked him, because he was an over the top charismatic indvidual who could make the crowd love him and hate him whenever he wanted.

And he owes much to Andre, the Sheik, and the other big heels of his day that helped him have some easy storylines.

Easy storylines? What? I do actually agree that Hogan needed solid heels to feud with, but how is that "easy"? Andre was one of the most popular wrestlers of his time, getting people to boo him and cheer Hogan was not an easy task.

But there's no doubt he gave the WWE a huge jump into mainstream in the 80s. I just think that jump was bound to occur anyway with the aforementioned talent on the horizon.

And again those talents wouldn't exist in their exact form because Hogan was needed to pave the way every person you named wouldn't have gotten to where they did without Hogan.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

What do you think? Could WWE have worked without the Hulk Hogan gimmick?
No, Hogan was 100% spot on when he said he made wrestling what it is today. Its a possibility that obviously WWE may still have been around, but with that character, it took them straight to the top...Also I have been thinking, if there not had been Hulk Hogan in WWF, then thre wouldn't have been a Hollywood Hogan in WCW and WCW wouldn't have been the threat it was in the Monday Night Wars...

With the gimmick on someone else?
The only wrestler I can think off, who I think had a similar character was Ultimate Warrior..Back then WWE was based on like action-figure type characters, and he was like the closest thing I think they had to Hogan...although not better..

Altough Ric Flair was a true great, he never lifted pro wrestling to the mainstream, WWE tried to approach him in 88 I think, but he stayed in NWA-WCW anyway...

 

[Jackal960]

I would definitely say no WWE wouldn't be as successful without him. Yes he was the John Cena with red and yellow, but don't forget there wasn't a John Cena, Rock, SCSA before him. He was one of a kind. He brought the E to WWE. So it was something fresh, something heroic, something that all the kids loved to watch. If it wasn't Hogan, there wouldn't be an Attitude Era, there wouldn't be millions following professional wrestling, i even doubt if most of the stars today would even decide to become a professional wrestler. If there was anyone better than him that guy would have been given a shot, we wouldn't wait for Hogan, someone else would be successful in being an American Hero before him. Yes i hate when he acts like he did wrestling a favour, and i know its the other way around, but it shouldn't shadow his success at that time. He did something that none succeed before him.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I disagree that WWE wouldn't have made it national without Hogan... I think they had several guys who could have made national impact... It would have taken longer however as they didn't have the Rocky III tie in of Mr. T/Hogan to kick start Wrestlemania off... but Rock 'N Wrestling mainly worked cos of other guys... Piper, Orndorrf, Orton, Albano... That angle could still have worked with Orndorrf, Andre or Snuka being the face... All Vince needed was a Hollywood tie in to make the concept of the first Mania and the WWF work...

Ricky Steamboat could easily have been their top guy off of the the Karate Kid... WM I Ricky Steamboat and Ralph Macchio with Mr. Miagi v the guy who played Kreese and Slaughter or Piper ? Steamboat and Chuck Norris? Could have caught the same wave as Hogan and Mr. T did... Vince could have had Stallone/Rambo and Slaughter v The Sheik and Volkoff and still made it work....

Hogan was a big part of his success, but not the whole success of the WWF alone...

 

[CH David]

Of course WWE could have worked without it. But I don't think the WWE is as successful without it. Look at Wrestlemania III. Without the Immortal One slamming Andre, what makes the PPV larger than life? Don't give me the Savage vs. Steamboat match either, because as much as I love it, it didn't catapult like Andre vs. Hogan did. Other people could have taken the gimmick, but I highly doubt anyone could have ran with it as hard as Terry Bollea did. He was big in the AWA, and Vince gave him the platform to go out to the masses.

I'd also like to think that without Hulk Hogan, there are no Monday Night Wars. Seriously, the Outsiders were popular, but once Hogan joined them and the nWo was created, WCW took the fuck off. His heel turn is looked at as one of the best ever because for years he was the babyfaced hero who loved the fans. Without Hulk Hogan, the Golden Era isn't what it was, and there likely wouldn't be a Monday Night Wars to the magnitude that we saw. Nobody had his charisma. Hogan made the old WWF as big as it was, and changed wrestling twice, with the Golden Era, and his formation of the nWo.

 

[jsanders78]

I'm gonna say 'Yes, the WWE could've gone mainstream without HH'. But only if the rest of history stayed the same: I.E. SCSA, the Rock, HBK, and others still rising to the occasion to create the awesome Attitude Era, which was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania.

The Attitude Era had EVERYTHING to do with Hulk Hogan. Without the nWo and the Hogan heel turn, the A.E. likely never would have happened. The A.E. was WWE/F's response to the nWo - with it we could still be looking at the likes of Doink the Clown, Crush, Tatanka, and Bastion Booger - just to name a few.

Hogan credits himself with the success of pro wrestling - and to an extent he is right. Wrestling has always had it's up and down times, and Hogan was the main guy for the 2 most successful periods. But the problem I have is that it wasn't Hogan's idea, he just did what he was told. To that end, I would argue that pro wrestling would not be what it is today without the likes of Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff.

 

[CH David]

I'm gonna say 'Yes, the WWE could've gone mainstream without HH'. But only if the rest of history stayed the same: I.E. SCSA, the Rock, HBK, and others still rising to the occasion to create the awesome Attitude Era, which was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania.

The rest of the history wouldn't stay the same. Without Hulk Hogan, there may not have been an Attitude Era. Remember that the Attitude Era got jump started because WCW got as big as it did. How did that happen? Hulk freaking Hogan turned heel and helped form the nWo. Fucking DUH!!!!!

I was an NWA fan and watched the rise of the 4-Horsemen and thankfully completely missed out on the Hogan Era of the old WWF (since only the NWA was broadcast in upper-state SC in the mid 80s). I honestly don't understand why he became so huge. From what I've read and seen on video, he was like a big red&yellow version of Cena, sans crappy rap-hop music and stupid spinning title belt. Every match appeared to be the same: Hulk starts out slow, starts getting whupped, Hulks Up, dumb Leg Drop, 1-2-3-ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

See, this is one of those that is very irritating. Dude, the NWA was the more wrestling oriented product than the old WWF. However, here is one thing that you are misunderstanding. Hogan became huge because he could hold the crowd in the palm of his hand. His promos alone made people want to watch. He was the American Hero. He had a great message, was given the platform, and soared like a fucking eagle. Parents loved him, and he was the reason the Golden Age got as big as it did.

He never could hold a candle to the mic work,charisma, and ring abilities of Flair.

Couldn't...hold a Holy shit that is funny. Sure, Flair has Hogan licked in ring abilities, when he was in the WWF. Hogan could go in the ring quite well, look at his stuff from Japan. But mic work and charisma, can be subjective. Hogan had a message, and people followed it. He didn't have to have anything elaborate at all to get his point across. Charisma? Hogan was the most charismatic star at his peak. Flair is right up there, but god damn to say he could never hold a candle is just fucking WRONG! You are dumb for saying that, and I hope you realize it.

And he owes much to Andre, the Sheik, and the other big heels of his day that helped him have some easy storylines. But there's no doubt he gave the WWE a huge jump into mainstream in the 80s. I just think that jump was bound to occur anyway with the aforementioned talent on the horizon.

The jump wouldn't happen with some schmuck. Hogan was popular in the AWA, Vince brought him in again, and he took the fuck off. The WWF soared to new heights not seen before. Who could have taken over that spot? We all saw what happened when he left for WCW. It was a horrid time financially, low ratings and all that jazz. Sure, his slam on Andre was the catapult into the stratosphere, but he gained momentum before that, and he kept it going after. So please, tell me who the fuck could have taken that spot and made it as big as Terry Bollea did. I'd love to see your answer.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I'm gonna say 'Yes, the WWE could've gone mainstream without HH'. But only if the rest of history stayed the same: I.E. SCSA, the Rock, HBK, and others still rising to the occasion to create the awesome Attitude Era, which was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania.

You see if there was no Hulk Hogan it would be very debatable if wrestling would have become what it had in the Attitude Era and what it is now. For all we know, if there was no Hulk Hogan, pro wrestling could have easily gone the way of Roller Derby. Then again, who knows? There was a plethora of other great stars in the eighties. You had Ric Flair, Rick Steamboat, Randy Savage, The Junkyard Dog, Sgt. Slaughter, and The Road Warriors to name just a few. If there was no Hogan amongst those names who knows maybe with ONE other guy to take on Hogan's role things could have been the same. I am not sure, there's no real way to answer a hypothetical like that since we just can't jump into a time machine and change the course of history we'll never really know. So the best way to answer this is to go with what we do know. To go and say that the Attitude was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania is PREPOSTEROUS. Actually, completely preposterous. Hogan's contributions to the WWF laid down the foundation for the WWF's future successes. Not to mention that his heel turn in WCW had a GREAT influence on wrestling as a whole, now I don't want to take away credit from Hall and Nash because I thought they were integral to the success of the nWo as well and therefore WCW overall. But Hulk Hogan's shocking heel turn was a catalyst in ensuring that things would work out with the nWo storyline. You don't have to be a Hogan fan nor is anyone begging you to be one but a truly objective and unbiased wrestling fan should realize and give the proper credit to Hulk Hogan being a major reason why the WWF/E has endured for so long in professional wrestling.

I was an NWA fan and watched the rise of the 4-Horsemen and thankfully completely missed out on the Hogan Era of the old WWF (since only the NWA was broadcast in upper-state SC in the mid 80s). I honestly don't understand why he became so huge.From what I've read and seen on video, he was like a big red&yellow version of Cena, sans crappy rap-hop music and stupid spinning title belt. Every match appeared to be the same: Hulk starts out slow, starts getting whupped, Hulks Up, dumb Leg Drop, 1-2-3-ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. He never could hold a candle to the mic work,charisma, and ring abilities of Flair.

The NWA is great wrestling, I have always enjoyed their product and I have a library full of NWA archived footage and I throughly enjoyed the work of the Road Warriors, Arn Anderson, and of course Ric Flair not to mention countless others. It was a great alternative to the WWF, but as history as shown it doesn't have the same influence that the World Wrestling Federation has had. Even though my passion has waned for the product, World Wrestling Entertainment still thrives even in a time where their numbers are nowhere near where they were in the Attitude Era and Hogan years. Yes the Hogan matches were formulaic, no doubt about that, but you gotta remember the WWF did travel from city to city and if people who went to see the WWF live and in person didn't get to see an up close and personal version of what they saw on TV from Hogan, I'd be pretty sure to say that you'd have a lot of disappointed ticket buyers. Bottom line is, no matter how redundant you might have thought Hulk Hogan's act was, people bought it. He offered something that the mass of wrestling fans had never seen before and that's why he became huge. Even if Hogan's matches weren't of the same caliber of your prototypical in ring technician it still takes a lot of hard work to be able to perform in a wrestling ring. Yes, even I'll concede that I like a lot more of Flair's matches compared to Hogan, but at the same time Hogan is still one of my favorites and I respect the athleticism he had. And trust me he had it, if he didn't he would have gone the way of individuals like Ted Arcidi and Bill Kazimier who were merely just power lifters and not wrestlers. Hogan had wrestling ability, even if he never used it as much in his matches compared to Flair. So unless you've ever worked a match in your life you have no grounds to speak on how someone can work a match.

And he owes much to Andre, the Sheik, and the other big heels of his day that helped him have some easy storylines. But there's no doubt he gave the WWE a huge jump into mainstream in the 80s. I just think that jump was bound to occur anyway with the aforementioned talent on the horizon.

You know man, I understand if Hulk Hogan is not your cup of tea as a wrestler, I am not going to change your mind on that or even try to. But I think you better recognize one thing, it's easy to criticize someone's abilities in being able to sell a storyline. But it still takes two people to perform, there's only so much carrying that one man can do. If your twisted logic on how a wrestling match is supposed to work was actually true then that means you or I at any point without any inkling of training in the artform of pro wrestling could take Hogan's place and get the same results. Think about that for a second. A lot of people that bash the big stars like Hogan and Cena fail to realize that dumb luck doesn't last forever. If these two guys were an example of "right place, at the right time" then both would have disappeared long ago. Again, so very easy to criticize the ability of those that are doing something for a living that you probably have never tried.

Think that over a bit, if it sounds like I'm personally attacking you, I'm not. I am just trying to make a point. It seems that you are very open to just endlessly criticizing and I just think there's a need to challenge such a close minded viewpoint like you have presented in your post.

 

[Judah's Lion]

i'm not the biggest Hogan fan ever, but i do like people as a whole. that said, i'm gonna try not to bash anybody in this post.

Hogan, though possibly a bit of an ego-maniac, is pretty accurate in what he says. he didn't act alone in his success and so some props have to go to McMahon, Piper, Andre, Warrior, Shiek, etc. but Hogan changed wrestling.

not many can say that. then he changed wrestling again. nobody in the history of the business can say that.

Hogan at the birth of Wrestlemania changed the world of wrestling and sports entertainment. no questions. and his character was larger than life. he is the most requested person for the Make-a-Wish foundation. that's something pretty unique.

and then when he turned on the fans and formed the nWo, that was the most epic turn in the history of the business as well. nobody ever expected that! and thus, the Monday Night Wars and the Attitude Era were born. this is typically everybody's favorite age of wrestling as a fan and it was in large part due to Hogan.

the gimmick could not have worked with anybody else. who else had the total package? Hogan had the size, the look, the charisma, the [admittedly limited] moveset, the mic skills, etc. Piper didn't. Savage didn't. Warrior didn't. Andre didn't. Steamboat didn't. Flair didn't. all these guys had parts of the whole that Hogan had, but Hogan had the entire package. nobody else did.

or did they? one day, Hogan left the WWF. hoping to re-capture what they had in Hogan, the American Hero, Lex Luger entered the scene. on July 4, 1993, he body slammed the 500 pound Yokozuna and formed the Lex Express, touring the nation as the greatest American Hero of all time. and nobody cared. Lex had the look, the size, the ring skills, decent mic work, decent charisma. but nobody cared.

why? because it was a cheap rip off of Hogan and his slam of Andre at Mania 3. Hogan began it all. he is the most recognizable person in the history of the sport. people that have never watched a wrestling match in their life know who Hogan is and know why he is famous. i'll give you a hint. it's not because of "Thunder in Paradise" or "Suburban Commando". it's not for "Hogan Knows Best". it's because he changed the world of wrestling and sports entertainment. again, he didn't work alone. but he is the face of that change.

 

[Tully]

Except none of that would've stayed the same, because without Hogan wrestling doesn't become mainstream and those characters never come to be. Not to mention that Hogan had a lot to do with the Attitude Era, you know that little thing called the nWo.

I disagree. Wrestling was 'becoming mainstream' in the south in the NWA due to Ted Turner's elevation of the 4 Horseman on TBS every Sat. nite. NO, it was NOT the size of the WWF (so don't bother rebutting that 'cause I'm not arguing it). But down here in the south, where the WWF was still very limited in appearances, wrestling was starting to become mainstream without any assistance from the Hulkster whatsoever. People in the Northeast have no idea how little most of us in the Southeast knew of the WWF during the 80s and during Hulk's reign. I literally never saw the guy nor the Hart Foundation etc yet we all knew and watched the Horsemen. We were primed for the Attitude Era and the NWO long before either became a reality.

Doesn't the fact that Hogan became so much more popular than Flair sort of question that, Hogan's promo's were excellent that's why so many people liked him, because he was an over the top charismatic indvidual who could make the crowd love him and hate him whenever he wanted.

Hogan only became more popular than Flair because Flair was in NWA and had a smaller TV audience than the giant-Northeast Arenas Hogan was packing in. It's like the entire Big 10 vs SEC argument in football: Just because Michigan shoves 100,000+ people in their stadium each week doesn't mean they produce a superior product to SEC schools who are only putting 80,000+ people in stadiums.

Easy storylines? What? I do actually agree that Hogan needed solid heels to feud with, but how is that "easy"? Andre was one of the most popular wrestlers of his time, getting people to boo him and cheer Hogan was not an easy task.

Perhaps not Andre but you or I could've waved the American flag and been great Faces vs the evil terrorist Iron Sheik or commie Nikolai Volkoff. Pitting an American Face vs Arabs or Commies wasn't exactly a difficult thing to pull off.

And again those talents wouldn't exist in their exact form because Hogan was needed to pave the way every person you named wouldn't have gotten to where they did without Hogan.

Both HBK and Scott Hall had made good names for themselves in the now-defunct AWA, along with the Road Warriors, as had the Horsemen & Dusty Rhodes in the NWA without any assistance whatsoever from HH.

Believe it or not, there actually were people wrestling sucessfully and making names for themselves in federations other than the WWF at the time. I know that's hard to fathom today but there actually were other promotions and wrestlers besides the WWF in the 1980s.

 

[Tully]

The rest of the history wouldn't stay the same. Without Hulk Hogan, there may not have been an Attitude Era. Remember that the Attitude Era got jump started because WCW got as big as it did. How did that happen? Hulk freaking Hogan turned heel and helped form the nWo. Fucking DUH!!!!!



See, this is one of those that is very irritating. Dude, the NWA was the more wrestling oriented product than the old WWF. However, here is one thing that you are misunderstanding. Hogan became huge because he could hold the crowd in the palm of his hand. His promos alone made people want to watch. He was the American Hero. He had a great message, was given the platform, and soared like a fucking eagle. Parents loved him, and he was the reason the Golden Age got as big as it did.






Couldn't...hold a Holy shit that is funny. Sure, Flair has Hogan licked in ring abilities, when he was in the WWF. Hogan could go in the ring quite well, look at his stuff from Japan. But mic work and charisma, can be subjective. Hogan had a message, and people followed it. He didn't have to have anything elaborate at all to get his point across. Charisma? Hogan was the most charismatic star at his peak. Flair is right up there, but god damn to say he could never hold a candle is just fucking WRONG! You are dumb for saying that, and I hope you realize it.



The jump wouldn't happen with some schmuck. Hogan was popular in the AWA, Vince brought him in again, and he took the fuck off. The WWF soared to new heights not seen before. Who could have taken over that spot? We all saw what happened when he left for WCW. It was a horrid time financially, low ratings and all that jazz. Sure, his slam on Andre was the catapult into the stratosphere, but he gained momentum before that, and he kept it going after. So please, tell me who the fuck could have taken that spot and made it as big as Terry Bollea did. I'd love to see your answer.

Sorry my NWA experience "irritates you" but please remember: Very few people in the South ever got to watch HH. For me personally, HH did exactly 'Jack' and "Shit" in making me a wrestling fan. For me, the NWA experience that irritates you is all I had...and I loved every minute of it. Believe it or not, millions of southern wrestling fans became so WITHOUT EVER SEEING A HH LEG DROP!!!

Which is my 'evidence' (such as it were) for my entire opinion here: That WWE would've gone mainstream with/without HH. Myself and others were still marking out and watching wrestling with no Red & Yellow Exposure whatsoever.


Remember the topic here is:

"Could the WWE gone mainstream without HH?"

Yes, it could and yes it would've. You've offered nothing to prove otherwise besides your obvious marked affection for HH. I get it: You were a little Hulkster who doesn't want your childhood hero offended. Well, it's not offense - HH obviously was fantastic at what he did.

But that's not the topic.

If not HH, WWF would've found someone else to play the All American Hero role that the country was so happily finding in HH. You're acting as if it was some sort of miracle that people took to HH's 'All American Hero' role but realistically, the nation's sports-ent fans were looking for someone just like this after the debacle of Vietnam, Richard Nixon, the Carter Malaise, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. ANYONE to make people feel good about America again. HH got the gift role of wrestling history. VKM deserves every $$ he earned from signing and elevating HH but if not HH, HBK could've easily slipped into HH's gift role. EASILY. He was as gifted on the mic and noone would argue against his ring work. Yes, that means there would've been a delay in the rise of WWE (due to HBK's age at the time) but that still adheres to my belief that "Yes, without HH, the WWE would've gone mainstream anyway"

 

[Tully]

I am not sure, there's no real way to answer a hypothetical like that since we just can't jump into a time machine and change the course of history we'll never really know. So the best way to answer this is to go with what we do know.

Actually, this entire topic is a hypothetical. "Would the WWE have gone mainstream without HH?" To answer an obvious fictional hypothetical requires one to jump into the fictional time machine and try to see if history's course can be changed.

Honestly and no disrespect intended...I seem to be the only one doing that here. The rest of you keep answering and insulting me for daring to consider a world without HH but that's EXACTLY WHAT THE QUESTION IS ASKING FOR.

For the record, I agree that HH was a great wrestler in the 80s who indeed was instrumental in the rise of the WWE.

But again, the topic is to consider the WWE WITHOUT him, not to point out how good he was.

To go and say that the Attitude was a roaring success that had nothing to do with Hulkamania is PREPOSTEROUS. Actually, completely preposterous.

and yet, for me and most of my friends, it's 100% truth. We grew up watching NWA, not WWF. We weren't Hulkamaniacs. We didn't take our vitamins nor did we pray. Most of us marked out for the Horsemen and the various awesome heels of the NWA, later WCW.

Yet we still became ticket-paying, TV-watching fans anyway.

The rest of your post, you go on to describe Hulk's talents and skills, and you do a noteworthy job of that.

But I don't argue that HH wasn't talented: He clearly was. I just think there were a few others (Flair, HBK, Bret Hart, and likely others in the WWF that I was unable to watch due to territorial infringement at the time) that likely would've been able to elevate the WWE to the mainstream.

Which is the question here. The question is NOT "Was Hulk Hogan talented?". He obviously was. I just think he was gifted with good booking, great heels, and awesome timing. His first failed WWE run (yeah, I looked it up on Wiki, since I didn't get to watch it ) didn't appear to be much of a success, which belies that his later run was all about him. It wasn't.

You don't have to be a Hogan fan nor is anyone begging you to be one but a truly objective and unbiased wrestling fan should realize and give the proper credit to Hulk Hogan being a major reason why the WWF/E has endured for so long in professional wrestling.

It's not that I'm "not a fan" (I'm not). It's that "I wasn't exposed to Hulkamania at all yet me and millions of others still became wrestling fans of other promotions."

Giving proper credit to Hogan is again NOT the topic here. The topic is a discussion of an alternate universe where HH doesn't exist.

So unless you've ever worked a match in your life you have no grounds to speak on how someone can work a match.

Weak sauce.

I've never hit a tee shot at The Masters but when Tiger bombs one into the woods, I'll still call it a poorly-hit ball. And be correct.

I've never attempted a free throw in the NBA, but when Shaq inevitably misses, I can still call his form "fucking awful". And be correct.

I've never been President but know that Obama's healthcare plan sucks ass. And I'm right.

You know man, I understand if Hulk Hogan is not your cup of tea as a wrestler, I am not going to change your mind on that or even try to. But I think you better recognize one thing, it's easy to criticize someone's abilities in being able to sell a storyline. But it still takes two people to perform, there's only so much carrying that one man can do. If your twisted logic on how a wrestling match is supposed to work was actually true then that means you or I at any point without any inkling of training in the artform of pro wrestling could take Hogan's place and get the same results. Think about that for a second. A lot of people that bash the big stars like Hogan and Cena fail to realize that dumb luck doesn't last forever. If these two guys were an example of "right place, at the right time" then both would have disappeared long ago. Again, so very easy to criticize the ability of those that are doing something for a living that you probably have never tried.

Think that over a bit, if it sounds like I'm personally attacking you, I'm not. I am just trying to make a point. It seems that you are very open to just endlessly criticizing and I just think there's a need to challenge such a close minded viewpoint like you have presented in your post.

None of your post came across as personal criticism. But none of it seemed to be about the topic either. Most of it seemed to be a defense of Hulk Hogan, which isn't the topic.

The topic (again) is "Could WWE have gone mainstream without Hogan?".

I believe it could have. I've seen absolutely nothing in any rebuttal yet to make me think otherwise.

To everyone responding: I get it. Hulk Hogan was a big star who helped the rise of the WWE. I don't argue that.

But that's not the topic. The topic is to consider a Wrestling World where Hulk Hogan doesn't exist (or at least, didn't get the push he rec'd in 1983) and the effects of that on the WWE.

I'd be happy to discuss that but any replies of how much I suck for daring to think differently from the rest of the herd and how lame I am for not worshiping the train wreck that is today's HH will be politely ignored. Thanks.

 

[thomas1027]

are you people crazy??? hogan surely didnt make wrestling. vince made wrestling what it is today. hogan did nothing but act like a little child. he had 2 moves, maybe 3. hogan can never be as big as stone cold. he made wrestling into something noone else will be able to. hogan was and always will be a comlete joke. he needs the spotlight because without it, he is a wash up. all you people need to get your head straight. orton is not even at his peak with his character right now and is bigger than hogan will ever be. orton is huge right now. they should bring hogan back just so orton can punt him,then things would be straight

 

[thenextbigthing]

orton is not even at his peak with his character right now and is bigger than hogan will ever be. orton is huge right now. they should bring hogan back just so orton can punt him,then things would be straight

Someone should bring Orton in so he could punt YOU in the head. Orton bigger than Hogan? I can't even begin to explain your stupidity or the outlandish mediocrity of that jumbled mess of words you call a post above.

Moving on.

To answer the question.

Yes, I believe that WWE could have gone mainstream without Hulk Hogan. The way it went mainstream would have been completely different, the product we see today would be completely different, but it still could have happened.

If anything I think Hogan was a better business partner for Vince than anything during his run. Hogan and Vince collaborated on everything from Heels and Faces to wrestlers having Entrance Music at the time. During Hogan's first run, the product was on the rise. All the public needed to latch on to the product was the Super Hero. If it wasn't Hogan, it could have been somebody else.

Now, this does not mean I am taking anything away from Hulk Hogan. I respect the history he has, the accomplishments he has attained and the legacy he has created during the rise of professional wrestling into a pop culture phenomena.

BUT... if we are hopping in the hypothetical time machine, I believe Vince could have put the hero gimmick on anybody. Hell, Roddy Piper, Bruno Sammartino, Big John Studd, Jim Duggan, any of those guys could have been given the proper mouth piece, pushed to the moon with the same catch phrases as Hogan and would have been slamming Andre at the Pontiac Silverdome in front of thousands of fans.

 

[dotty_84]

I'm not going to go on about anything after the boom as without Hogan yes it would have been completely different. Does this mean wrestling wouldn't be as good though it could have been better.

This is about the initial boom of wrestling.

Vince McMahon knows what he to do to get this world wide huge that was crossing with mainstream media and wrestling Hogan was in Rocky yes it helped but honestly if Hogan as a person not exist people think Wrestling would just be popular with it's own national brands and nothing major worldwide influenced? bollocks!

You want names for a replacement someone who could talk decent look decent. You give him the gimmick you book him right and pinultimately fuck him in a match with this unatural beast you've got a winner.

As long as you can string a coherent sentence and look good Vince would have done the rest. Hogan was known for being in Rocky yeah i seen that film all i knew was that he was a wrestler. Nothing special.

Vince has known people his connection i'm pretty sure he could have got lots of people interested in crossing their media into his wrestling. You my back, i'll scratch yours. it was always win win.

I'm not denying he had a big part and yeah no NWO no Attitude... possibly but with the eventual uprising of media sharing and how much easier it was to watch what you want WCW and WWF would have clashed at some point who knows maybe we'd be in an attitude era as we speak without Hogan.

It wasn't all Hogan he had his part though.

 

[CH David]

Sorry my NWA experience "irritates you" but please remember: Very few people in the South ever got to watch HH. For me personally, HH did exactly 'Jack' and "Shit" in making me a wrestling fan. For me, the NWA experience that irritates you is all I had...and I loved every minute of it. Believe it or not, millions of southern wrestling fans became so WITHOUT EVER SEEING A HH LEG DROP!!!

My main irritation was you saying Hogan's matches were all the same like Cena. I didn't clear that up, but oh well. You make it like Flair's matches were different all the time, they weren't. He gets beat up, possibly bleeds, uses heel tactics to gain the advantage. Hogan got the early advantage, got beat up, and made his come back. Every one has a formula.

Also my response to you is mainly regarding that the Attitude Era would have gone off without a hitch without Hulk Hogan. It is all bullshit. The reason there was a Golden Era of wrestling, Hulk Hogan. The reason for the Monday Night Wars, and in turn an Attitude Era, Hulk Hogan. Wrestling would be main stream, but not as big as Hogan made it, and there wouldn't be a need for an Attitude Era as no one could pull off being face for so many years and then turn heel.

Remember the topic here is:

"Could the WWE gone mainstream without HH?"

Yes, it could and yes it would've. You've offered nothing to prove otherwise besides your obvious marked affection for HH. I get it: You were a little Hulkster who doesn't want your childhood hero offended. Well, it's not offense - HH obviously was fantastic at what he did.

Actually, I wasn't, and am not a huge mark for Hogan. I didn't start watching until around '98 or '99. I wasn't a little Hulkster, so thank you for assuming, and being a dumbass in addition to being wrong. I just happen to respect the impact that he had, which was taking the WWE, to a higher level than just main stream. He made it fucking global. Without him slamming Andre, there is no WWE popularity all over the world.

If not HH, WWF would've found someone else to play the All American Hero role that the country was so happily finding in HH. You're acting as if it was some sort of miracle that people took to HH's 'All American Hero' role but realistically, the nation's sports-ent fans were looking for someone just like this after the debacle of Vietnam, Richard Nixon, the Carter Malaise, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. ANYONE to make people feel good about America again. HH got the gift role of wrestling history. VKM deserves every $$ he earned from signing and elevating HH but if not HH, HBK could've easily slipped into HH's gift role. EASILY. He was as gifted on the mic and noone would argue against his ring work. Yes, that means there would've been a delay in the rise of WWE (due to HBK's age at the time) but that still adheres to my belief that "Yes, without HH, the WWE would've gone mainstream anyway"

We can argue semantics all day. WWE would have been taken into households as the '80s rolled on. But it wasn't a global market without Hogan. You can act like Hogan was just right place, right time and ran with it, but he needed to keep it up, and he did.

I'm not acting like anything. I'm just saying he was given the role, and took it to NEW HEIGHTS! His message was to not give up. That's a great lesson to teach. That is why he was so great, it was a simple message, and parents knew it was good for their children. Nobody had the charisma to raise the WWE to where it was, and that is a fact.

So fine, WWE would be allowed in households, go on chugging along throughout the country. But it wouldn't have been launched into the stratosphere like it was, the Monday Night Wars and Attitude Era wouldn't happen without Hogan, and the WWE wouldn't be as popular as it is right now. Those are facts, not opinions. Hogan was the reason for all of it.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

It's hard to imagine the wrestling world without Hulk Hogan. He has made such a huge impact that is still being felt to this day (in TNA) and there are people that still chant his name. It's not because he was the best wrestler there ever was... it's due to him being able to play the role of a professional wrestler better than anyone else. Many people seem to think that having a huge arsenal or array of moves automatically makes you the best professional wrestler. While it can help in making different scenario's in matches, it's not a priority. You need to be able to play your character enough to get the fans drawn in, via the use of wrestling. Terry Bollea seemed to have that natural charisma to be able to go into an arena and get the crowd to give him heat. Whilst he wasn't the main-eventer, people got so worked up into watching him perform they'd give big enough reactions to mimic them.

There are some other people at that time who could have done the same thing as Hulk, such as Ric Flair... but it was the entire gimmick that got people wanting more. Hulk had the build and the look to become the American Hero and take down all the big, bad guys of wrestling... during a time when wrestlers were of bigger builds. Back in the day, Hulk could cut a mean promo (pun intended) and just by one punch, get the entire arena in a frenzy.


In saying all this, going mainstream without Hulk Hogan would have been a lot more difficult and would have taken a lot longer than it did. The WWE would have gone to a different direction to end up in the same place... but they would have gone mainstream nonetheless with Vinnie Mac at the helm. The man is a good business man and will do everything based on making the best business decisions. Back then, that would have involved going mainstream as there would have been a much higher demographic to attend to. There were guys that came through the business who could have been marketed as the company guy, like Ultimate Warrior (due to the fan reaction he got) and could have been taken them to new heights... but no-one could have done it like Hulk did.

 

[HBKevin]

Sorry my NWA experience "irritates you" but please remember: Very few people in the South ever got to watch HH.

I wasn't even alive until 1986, but Hogan wrestled in the South in his early days, and even won the NWA heavyweight title in the South. As for charisma, no one has had a crowd connection like Hulk did in the 80s. I don't just mean the hulking up routine or the post-match ear-cupping and flexing, but all of his mannerisms. Hulk constantly had an eye on the crowd.

When the heels would do something cowardly, like Macho Man pulling Miss Elizabeth in front of him to avoid an attack, Hulk would stop and turn to both sides of the crowd and stare at them in disbelief, and shrug and motion frustratedly towards Savage. He was nothing special in the ring, but I personally don't think there will ever be another wrestler who so completely understands how to work a crowd as a babyface than Hulk Hogan.

 

[The Crock]

I don't think the WWE and wrestling in general would be as big as they are today. Hulk Hogan was the superstar that took wrestling to the next level. Hulk Hogan was very lucky though, and he had many opportunities come to him that no other wrestler had. Rocky III added to the "aura" of Hogan which made him very well known.

The gimmick would have never worked on anyone else. He went by Hulk in the Alabama Territory before he ever got to, what was then known as, the WWWF (World Wide Wrestling Federation, the extra W was later dropped). He went by Hulk because people said he made the Hulk character look small. He then got his first run in the WWWF and Vince McMahon Sr. wanted him to play a tough Irishman so he got Hogan as a last name. Vince Sr. wanted him to dye his hair red but he refused, so the Hulk Hogan we know was born. A series of coincidences and decisions made by Hogan led to the character being what he was, nobody else could have pulled off that gimmick... Nobody.

Then after his second run with the WWF he left and wanted to spend time with his kids. He then got a call from Eric Bischoff and Hogan went to WCW. When Hogan went to WCW the NWO was born and the Monday Night Wars happened.

Without Hulk Hogan wrestling and the WWE would not be what they are today. Hulk Hogan forever changed the history of pro wrestling.

 

[JuviJuiceIsLoose]

Just put it like this. Had Hulk Hogan worked things out with Verne Gagne, Vince McMahon would probably be just an announcer in the AWA.

Vince couldn't have gone national like he wanted to without Hogan. He definitely wouldn't have been able to threaten and muscle cable companies like he did without Hogan.

It's not like Hogan got to the WWF, and Vince put him in Red & Yellow and told him what to say. He pretty much had his whole persona down in the AWA. He was wearing the yellow tights, he was starting to use the catch phrases that made him a superstar.

Without Hogan going to the WWF, guys like Gene Okerlund, Bobby Heenan, Jesse Ventura would have stayed in the AWA.

Most of those guys from the AWA and other territories followed Hogan. Guys like Piper wouldn't have gone to the WWF without him.

Vince definitely deserves a ton of credit for giving Hulk a platform to become a star. But after Rocky III, he was already on his way.