Women in WWE: Problems & Solutions

Uncle Sam

Rear Naked Bloke
I know absolute bugger all about feminism. I would describe myself as a feminist. I am straight, I am white, I am male (and, evidently, I am holier than thou). A number of my favourite storylines - and therefore matches - over the last few years have involved female wrestlers. Several of my favourite wrestlers are now therefore female. This opened my eyes to something about which, if I'm honest with myself, I knew all along: women are underrepresented in professional wrestling; women, when present, are represented poorly in professional wrestling. It's probably one of the best times in history to be a woman in wrestling - but it could be so much better.

The first thing that stands out - the word "diva" is an insult. It literally is an insult. Why have the female wrestlers for years had to be referred to almost exclusively as divas? The male wrestlers get to be known as "superstars" instead of the equivalent (presumably "douchebags" or "********s").

It's encouraging that the females have been given their own show. It's not encouraging that it's called Total Divas (there's that word again) and is an unconvincing "reality" show built on pointless arguments - but what, one supposes, is professional wrestling if not an unconvincing reality show built on pointless arguments? Perhaps John Cena, Daniel Bryan and Tyson Kidd should have their own spin-off called Total Knobs.

Nearly as bad as the diva issue is that big bastard butterfly belt that the female champion has to carry. The butterfly belt has to go. Either that or you've got to replace the men's title with a giant penis trophy or something just as ridiculously gendered and gaudy.

On to someone who's had to carry that belt: AJ Lee. AJ Lee is an absolutely fantastic wrestler - she's got a great look, a defined character, is incredibly charismatic and is responsible for numerous fantastic matches. Trish Stratus, despite literally being considered WWE's greatest female wrestler of all-time, was mediocre at best. Lita, despite being revered almost as much as Trish, was mediocre at best. Currently, there are a good amount of excellent female wrestlers in WWE's employ but they are by and large exclusive to NXT. The majority of the women on the main roster are, many feel, entirely untalented. Eva Marie, for instance, doesn't have a grasp of the very fundamentals of pro wrestling.

Moving on from the in-ring talent, Renee Young is, if I'm not mistaken, the WWE's first female commentator and she is fantastic. Her less talented male colleagues have been repeatedly used on mainstream broadcasts while she's been left to kill it on NXT. Recently we had a thread on this site in which the original poster denigrated her - and, in fact, all women - for having too high pitched a voice.

Women aren't treated as equals in kayfabe terms either. Chyna was deemed good enough to wrestle midcarders - e.g. Chris Jericho and Jeff Jarrett - because she was exceptionally tall and muscular. Typically, women are treated as significantly weaker, significantly more cowardly and, maybe as a consequence, significantly more conniving than the men. A good way to get a cheer has often been to grab this weak, cowardly, conniving person and, say, powerbomb them through a table.

It's less a problem now that we're in the midst of the PG era but women in wrestling have been used as sex objects very, very often. Although we might not have as many pillow fights, mud fights or bra and panties matches as we used to, we still have entrances where two women squish their arses together, storylines wherein the competitors bizarrely develop a sexual attraction to one another and ring attires which emphasise the wrestlers' cleavage.

There are a myriad more problems, e.g. the lack of screentime for women, the overuse of lesbian storylines - but those are the ones that are most prominent in my mind. What I'd like to address now is potential solutions to those problems.

This in mind, someone I'd like to discuss is Candice LeRae. Candice LeRae is Joey Ryan's tag team partner. Joey Ryan is a man. Together they are The World's Cutest Tag Team. They don't exclusively wrestle other intergender teams. Most famously, they've wrestled The Young Bucks in PWG in a "Guerrila Warfare" match (i.e. a street fight). In that match, and in all matches, Candice wasn't able to absorb less punishment than any of the other wrestlers. She wasn't less courageous than any of the other wrestlers. She wasn't less dangerous than any of the other wrestlers. Joey Ryan is her tag team partner, not her bodyguard.

But hang on - a woman... wrestling a man? Surely you jest! How far-fetched!

Well, in the words of Joey Ryan:

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Intergender wrestling isn't really the solution, I don't think. At the very least, it'd be a very, very hard sell to those who produce WWE's current shows. In principle, I'm absolutely not opposed to it. My solution on this front, however, would be a) stop making women into victims and b) build them into more legitimate competitors.

For this, my example is actually from TNA. Gail Kim versus Taryn Terrell was a great feud, which included a ladder match and a last woman standing match. OK, it was called a last knockout standing match, and "knockout" is a pretty daft term too, but you can't have everything. The feud, without making a song and dance about it, proved that women aren't delicate flowers who must be protected from doing things which men do as a matter of routine.

As part of making women look like legitimate competitors, I'd only hire legitimate competitors. If you can't wrestle, you definitely don't get to go into the ring. If you're bad at wrestling, you definitely wouldn't get onto my show - not when there's a plethora of extremely talented female wrestlers out there. For example, all four of NXT's most prominent female wrestlers - Becky Lynch, Charlotte, Bayley and Sasha Banks - are very talented. What's more, NXT has a Women's Championship. Triple H refers to NXT's female talent as women.

I wouldn't refer to the female talent as women - I'd refer to them as superstars. I know, "superstar" is a ridiculously masculine word - to the point that it's impossible to say it out loud without picturing a gigantic, throbbing phallus - but I'm just stubborn like that.

Get rid of the butterfly belt. That's one of the areas in which we've actually moved backwards in the last five or so years. Bring the old belt back; it was fine.

Bring Renee Young up to Raw. Claiming Jerry Lawler, JBL and/or Michael Cole are shit isn't a controversial opinion, so replacing one of them with a good commentator shouldn't rock the boat too much. In the future, use her as an example and don't limit women to holding a microphone and looking scared while a man yells.

There's a long way to go, it looks like we might get there, but it's going to be a slow journey.
 
About being called a "diva", I don't think that's a derogatory or insulting term... If anything, it's a complimentary one. According to wikipedia:
A diva (/ ˈd iː v ə/ ; Italian: [ˈdiːva] ) is a celebrated female singer; a woman of outstanding talent in the world of opera, and by extension in theatre, cinema and popular music.
The word entered the English language in the late 19th century. It is derived from the Italian noun diva, a female deity. The plural of the word in English is "divas"; in
Italian, dive [ˈdiːve] . The basic sense of the term is goddess, the feminine of the Latin word divus (Italian divo), someone deified after death, or Latin deus, a god.

Also, the male for Diva is Divo, not Douchebag or ********. Its meaning:
divo m ( plural divi) (Feminine: diva)
1. star (performer)
2. (poetic) god


Get rid of the butterfly belt. Bring the old belt back; it was fine.
I disagree. The old belt was a generic wrestling championship with gold plates and black strap. The current one is smart, beautiful and glamorous- just like the divas. Moreover, since there is nothing wrong with the term "Diva", there's no harm in keeping the name engraved on the title as well.

Bring Renee Young up to Raw.
I disagree again :shrug: We all had high hopes from Renee Young initially, but she hasn't been marvellous at commentary. People have pointed out that she says "oh!" a lot, and most often, the other guy has to start the topic before she starts talking. It will be tough for her to do commentary for 3 hours.

Well, in the words of Joey Ryan:
The rebound off the ropes isn't too hard to believe, given Newton's third law of motion, and the spring-type nature of the ring ropes. But if Emma starts to whoop Cesaro's candy ass from South Carolina to Switzerland, it might be a tad bit tough to digest.
 
Am I missing something?
Is some one forcing these chicks to be wrestlers?!
I'm sorry, but they LOVE being Divas... they do not find it offensive so neither should you.
The reason they are under represented is because normal women don't want to live that lifestyle, and quite frankly, most of them just aren't that good.
My Two Cents.

titty novice eh??
You are quite the feminist...;)
 
Candace LeRae has been killing it in PWG and other feds for over a decade, amazing to believe. Her world title singles match against Adam Cole earlier this year nearly blew the roof off the venue, and her stellar tag matches with Joey Ryan have further solidified the idea that men and women can compete on an equal platform. Sam's caution is valid, though: by no means should intergender wrestling be the norm, but it can be a special attraction between carefully matched opponents. Generally an increased focus on frequent quality female wrestling matches, such as Gail Kim and Taryn Terrell's feud, will attract interest.

The WWE Divas division certainly needs improving, though its current state has far more focus on (extremely variable) in-ring action than previous years. The name "Diva" is not inappropriate in and of itself, just that the connotation of the word has associations with frivolous self-centered bitchy behavior. I have my doubts that a simple word change will instantly raise the division's credibility. It has to come more from the substance of the matches. The butterfly belt, while ludicrous, sufficiently functions as a shiny prize for which the performers compete. To its credit, the design looks as if it was refined over a longer period than say, Brock's belt.

Renee ain't ready yet, but her commentary will improve as she develops her announcer persona. As it currently stands, she could be at the table with Tom Phillips and Byron Saxton as the trifecta of insubstantial white noise. Like the four horsewomen tearing it up in NXT right now, her impact will be greater when the stage is open for her to shine and she is prepared to capitalize.
 
About being called a "diva"

I feel this is being a tad dishonest, particularly when it comes to Total Divas. If I were to say about a woman that she was a diva, in any context, I would never expect the person I was talking to to come back with, "Yes, she is such a goddess! Unless you meant she's a celebrated female opera singer, in which case I also agree." Today, the term's primarily used as a pejorative to mean - give me a second while I Google something suitably dictionary-sounding - "a woman regarded as temperamental or haughty." Given the way women are represented by WWE - as catty, jealous, manipulative, disloyal and overly dramatic - the way they want it to be taken is pretty obvious. Add to that what the name Total Divas actually implies.

I disagree. The old belt was a generic wrestling championship with gold plates and black strap. The current one is smart, beautiful and glamorous- just like the divas.

I quite like this interpretation. Mine has always been that it looks like an oversized Polly Pocket accessory. The lengths that have been gone to in order to make it look feminine are ridiculous. As an example of an alternative, and of a belt that looks "smart, beautiful and glamorous," I turn again to NXT:

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Leaving aside Renee Young because arguing over commentators can be six of one and half a dozen of the other and would likely just end up in me producing a laundry list of annoying tendencies that the main show team has and that Renee does not:

The rebound off the ropes isn't too hard to believe, given Newton's third law of motion, and the spring-type nature of the ring ropes. But if Emma starts to whoop Cesaro's candy ass from South Carolina to Switzerland, it might be a tad bit tough to digest.

The weight difference between Cesaro and Emma is approximately forty kilograms (and Cesaro is a big lad who's almost entirely muscle). The weight difference between Cesaro and The Big Show is about ninety kilograms. The weight difference between Daniel Bryan and Batista is roughly thirty-five kilograms.
 
The treatment is definitely getting better. There was a stage where they weren't even trying to convince you that women could be wrestlers. Merely puppies as some would say. At least now there is an element of that and, as you suggested, that could be because of HHH and Stephanie. He generally seems to be a breath of fresh air in contrast to Vince who maybe needs to change a little.

I don't really object to the word "Diva". It's just a word for branding and I can't think of many other options. The belt is awful, sure. I'm not crazy about Renee Young as a commentator and I don't think she is any better than the others on NXT but bringing her up to Smackdown would be a great move regardless.

The inter-gender thing is just far too difficult to pull off. There is no way the WWE would risk it and it can easily get blown out of proportion. WE know it is all in the name of entertainment but you can turn around and say it is promoting domestic violence. It's far too real if that makes sense.

Changing how an entire division is viewed is a difficult job but they are on the right track. NXT definitely highlights women wrestling as something that can produce high quality TV rather than filler. The Bella's feud was given a lot of time and while it was rather poor it took effort. I mean, they COULD have been fighting over the affection of a man. If there is a group of women, who can all wrestle, competing over the belt then the division will be taken more seriously.

Indeed, these women can be role models and bring in a completely different demographic to wrestling. It's become a cliché but when I watch wrestling; I watch it for wrestling. There is a whole load of porn on the internet that can service anything else. Treating them like competitors and making it more serious will undoubtedly help. Wrestlers who happen to be women rather than women who have decided to become wrestlers is the key point. Sure some of the women can have gimmicks or different personalities but not to a ridiculous extent and certainly not all of them.
 
Here's the problem, guys. Two words: SPORTS. ENTERTAINMENT.

If you watched the Stone Cold podcast the other night, Vince essentially stated that he does not like the term "professional wrestling" and that "Professional wrestling is what my dad did." Vince considers the WWE to be "sports entertainment." Therefore, he is quite alright with his employees being "entertainers," even at the expense of, well, NOT BEING ABLE TO WRESTLE. Eva Marie, Summer Rae, Rosa Mendes, and I'm sure a few others have barely any training inside of a traditional wrestling ring. But they're all very attractive women, so we put them in something that shows some skin and voila - they are now "sports entertainment."

Obviously Vince knows who can wrestle and who cannot. So, why does he hire people that cannot? Because he thinks he is in the business of entertainment, not professional wrestling. Otherwise, the aforementioned women would be fired and Charlotte, Sasha, Bailey, and Becky would be wrestling in their stead. It's the same reason that we have a man in a bunny suit wrestling - "entertainment," presumably. It's the same reason Great Khali was allowed to stick around for as long as he did, even though the guy could barely walk - "entertainment," presumably. It's the same reason there are multiple little people dressed as bulls or gators or, well, whatever costume we want to slap on them this week - "entertainment," presumably.

Clearly, Vince's definition of "entertainment" is a little different than yours or mine. But if you're asking why they're called "divas" or why they're dressed provocatively or why nearly every single female wrestler's gimmick is that she is crazy, conniving, bitchy, and *possibly* a lesbian, well... Vincent Kennedy McMahon thinks that he is "entertaining" you. And until he realizes that his niche is professional wrestling and gets over this notion that he is competing with the NFL or any random Monday night sitcom on cable television, then you're going to have "divas" and not "female superstars."
 
This problem is far more nuanced than it has any place being in on a wrestling forum; but that said, there's a fuckton of problems, that if you're going to fix, means that you fix all of wrestling. Sam isn't wrong, at all, but he is missing a few things. I'll try to tackle some of them now:

1. Fix that "lesbian pollen" allergy

For those that don't watch OSW Review (and what the hell are you doing if you aren't?) "lesbian pollen" essentially refers to the concept of women teasing lesbian tendencies in order to inflict mand games, Maggle on their opponent. It's an old trope that frankly, has run its course. Creative portrays this is a clever way to develop a character, and it isn't. Really, all it serves as is titillation for the audience (mostly men), showing us that women can only have an advantage by using their sexuality. It places women right square in the middle of the male gaze. Which, in all reality, teaches us that women are to be defined by their sexuality.

Or, I can try putting it this way; could you imagine a storyline where John Cena and Seth Rollin play mand games on one another by making romantic passes at one another? No, right?

Then why is it ok for AJ Lee and Paige to spend six months doing it to each other?

(Before anyone tries to be that guy; Yes, I'm aware Goldust used to do the exact same things to his opponents. That strictly falls under the depiction of homosexuality in the WWE, and that's a different thread, for a different time. Suffice to say, though, WWE isn't exactly a shining beacon of portraying homosexuality on television, either.)

2. Women need to stop being bitches, man.

Allow me to explain to you the list of characters that WWE's divas have been portraying for the last fifteen years.

A. A mental
B. A bitch
C. A fun loving girl (Code to the audience: ****) who just likes to have fun.

That's it. That's the list. Seriously, if you can come up with someone who didn't play this role, I'd love to see it.

Molly Holly? The prude (read: she won't have sex, so she must be the heel) bitch

Kelly Kelly? The exhibitionist (read: She does have a lot of sex, so she's the babyface, lads) who also just likes to have fun.

It should be no surprise that the chants of "She's a crack ****e" still persist long past their expiration date (which, by the way, that expiration date should have been exactly two days.) When you present your women as nothing but any of the above three, that's what will happen.

Now, you could argue that the men suffer this, too. And consequentially, to fix that, you have to fix he process for everyone, not just the women. But there have been plenty of different men characters out there. And I'm pretty sure I summed up the whole divas division in that sentence?

3. Fire Kevin Dunn

Dunn has had his run ins with different women before, and is a known misogynist. Don't believe me? Take Alex Greenfield,s word for it.

Case in point, one of the big rubs on KD: he’s a misogynist influence on the product. I can tell you this is absolutely true and I learned it almost from jump street. One of the long term stories I’m most proud of from my time at WWE was being the principal producer on the Trish Stratus/Mickie James “Single White Female” story. There’s no humble in the brag when I say we grabbed the audience by the throat by a couple weeks into the angle and our quarter-hour ratings bore that out.

The first time we were given a crossover segment because the story was getting over, KD fought it tooth and nail. He fought us every week. Show was heavy? KD wanted to cut Trish/Mickie. “Temple of Trish” segment? KD argued that we needed more action and people would get bored. Lesbian kiss? “Trish has gotta like it!” Every single element, he wanted both protagonist and villain to be sexier and stupider.

Perhaps the following scene will be more instructive. You are on the WWE corporate jet. Imagine every rock star plane in any movie: four captain’s chairs facing each other in the front. Behind them, two benches facing each other across the aisle on which are crammed the writers. The captains? Vince, KD, Michael Hayes, HHH (Steph was on maternity leave, of Hayes would have been on the bench). We’re flying back from TV after taping one of the early WWECW shows. Kelly Kelly has just been introduced as the domestic [violence] partner of Mike Knox.

Hayes: She just feels cold, you know? She’s not connecting.
Vince: Mm. She needs to find her sensuality.

KD hops up and down in seat with s......ing laughter in that “Hey, boss, pay attention to me” way. Vince turns to him.

KD: She NEEEEDS to find some TITS!

KD continues to snicker, eyes on Vince, begging for approval. Vince snorts. Conversation continues.

This kind of thing? The tendency to present women as only softcore objects? Those conversations came every single day, and KD was the WORST about pissing on any serious woman’s program.

Ugh. I’m now on pg. 3 of the word doc I’m typing this in, so I’ll wrap it up. [Yaaaaay!] In my opinion based on my personal experience, Kevin Dunn is a detriment to WWE programming from both a creative and a production perspective. It is fair to credit him with being a part of something we all enjoy, but at the end of the day the product would be better if he weren’t involved in it. When that day comes, WWE will be a better place to work for both talent and crew.

In addition to that, Dunn is the guy that controls the camera shots. Meaning, all of those ass shots? That's him. All of those shots down their cleavage? Big Ol' KD, right there.

Which means, those need to go. All shots like that do is literally marginalize the women to their body parts. And if you want to see true progression, then we need to learn to see the women by their wrestling, and skill. Not just their body parts.

Those are just the glaring issues. Maybe I'll come back. Maybe I'll tear the idiots who come in here and argue this a new one. But those are just the most glaring issues
 
Others have said it in more detail, but the fact of the matter is that the Divas are there for a little bit of T&A, no different than an NFL cheerleader. There's a reason that the average WWE career of a Diva is about 3 to 4 years before they move on to something else: there's no long term plan for a Diva. Appear on Raw, be a bitch, ****, or a lesbian, have a bra and panties match, maybe win the title, and then leave.
 
this is a great thread and addresses a lot of the issues i have with WWE when it comes to their treatment of women. Most of those defending the current situation post about how they (as men) feel about these things, but do an experiment, go up to a woman and call her a diva, get slapped. "But it's not offensive it means goddess". It's not about how men feel about these things its about how they make the women, as the ones relating to it, feel.
 
The Paige vs AJ feud really hammered home how out of date WWE is when it comes to presenting women to be honest. Here are two young and talented wrestlers who have a very simple story to tell. It isn't rocket science, all they had to do was have Paige beat AJ for the belt like they did and then have AJ return to try to take it back.

Don't hot shot it either, build it for weeks that AJ might not be able to get the better of Paige as Paige either outsmarts her, pins her in a tag match or just is constantly able to dodge her. Match happens at Summerslam, AJ wins and we get a rematch or two before moving on to AJ facing Nikki Bella who wants the belt to prove to everyone that she isn't just John Cena's girlfriend and that she is talented.

None of that revolves around a pseudo lesbian angle and only tells the story of AJ wanting to defeat the one person who might be better than her and then moves on to Nikki trying to prove herself as a wrestler.

I have a feeling that AJ is leaving soon and if she does than WWE has really missed the boat on marketing her to young females as a serious athlete to look up to. They could have opened up huge revenue streams by doing so and doing it right because AJ is talented enough and relatable enough to have really become the John Cena of the female division.
 
The problem with the WWE and their joke of a "Divas" division is that they have people in it that are more interested in modeling and recording contracts then they are in wrestling. And, that is exacerbated by the fact that the Titan Towers Gang are more interested in T & A, as in Tits and Ass, rather than Talent and Ability. Do you think Jessicka Havok, MsChif, Awesome Kong or Kaori Yoneyama would actually fit in the way the Divas are currently constituted? Hell, Mia Yim was used as a jobber the other night in NXT! And, she would be an instant contender for the Divas strap! Hell, can you picture Cameron with Havok? Cameron would be in traction when that match was over! The Bellas would be begging for oxygen after 4 minutes with Yoneyama and MsChif. And, people wonder why the Divas division is looked down upon?!? Maybe if they has REAL WRESTLERS in the Divas division instead of glorified prostitutes, the division would not be the joke that many people believe it is.
 
...ok I'm just going to throw this out there...

Maybe if they has REAL WRESTLERS in the Divas division instead of glorified prostitutes, the division would not be the joke that many people believe it is.

You, guy who is calling the current crop of women glorified ****s? You're no better than the guy who disagrees with Sam's point. You're actually proving my point, in a lot of ways.

This isn't about who's on the current roster. Sure, there are some pretty bad workers in the women's division, but you can say the same about the men. Are you going to complain about Ryback the same way as the Bellas?

And if you are, are you going to call him a glorified prostitute? I would imagine not, but for whatever reason, it's ok to call the current crop of divas that? I mean, you're not even talking about how they're portrayed on television...if you said that, that would be one thing. But calling the actual women glorified prostitutes... Yeah, that's just some old fashioned woman hating, there.

Enjoy your fedora, broski. You're not giving solutions; if anything, you're part of the problem.
 
I think that WWE has the notion of "Diva" to mean a strong, confident, larger than life woman, as was originally intended by the word's definition. Prima donna is often confused with the term Diva as a Prima donna is someone with a demanding, haughty, self important personality. Somehow, most likely through misuse of the word in the press, people view a Diva as a combination of someone that's strong, confident and with great ability who also has a huge ego, is spoiled and self centered.

However, attempting to correct people in the proper use of Diva won't do any good because it's become far too ingrained in the collective conscience of society. As a result, people will continue to mistake Diva as this spoiled, demanding, haughty, arrogant person, so I think it'd be a good idea to change the name to something else. Call the female wrestlers Goddesses or Amazons, something with more of an edge to it because, as I said, people are going to continue to view a "Diva" as someone that's soft, spoiled and pampered rather than the "smart, sexy & powerful" women WWE wants them to be perceived as. Perception is reality, especially in pro wrestling, and most people, even though it's a mistake, view being a "Diva" as something that's negative.

As far as intergender wrestling, no. Just, flat out no. This might seem sexist but, oh well, I just can't take a male wrestler seriously that gets his ass kicked by a female wrestler. I'm a feminist but, let's be honest, what's the general view people are gonna have, male or female, of a man who gets beaten up by a woman? Answer: the guy's a pussy. On top of that, just look at the shit WWE would catch for having a man "beat up" on a woman, even in a pro wrestling match. Remember, political correctness is the new religion and it's just not okay for a guy to hit a woman. Sure, I know that the guy wouldn't really be hitting her, but it'd look like he was. Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter weren't really running down Mexican immigrants, but look at the shit storm WWE caught on account of it. CM Punk & Paul Heyman weren't really mocking Jerry Lawler's heart attack, yet people reacted as if Punk dropped his drawers, popped a squat, and dropped a deuce on the graves of loved ones who died of a heart attack.

I'm all for, however, making women legit competitors on the main roster instead of being these happy go lucky, sweet, cutesy gals running around like dainty little flowers. After all, if you're someone that's been born with the capability of growing, carrying and ultimately squirting something out of your genitals the size of a watermelon, then you're not made of porcelain. I'm also for portraying them in serious roles and in serious feuds without them being portrayed as "crazy" or displaying lesbian tendencies or slapping each other on the ass. It's outdated and is a genuine example, in my eyes, of Vince McMahon being out of touch.

For the most part, if you compare the women's divisions of the WWE main roster and NXT, it's like day and night. There are people in WWE creative that know how to portray the Divas in a more prominent, serious and competitive light because I see them doing it in NXT. The big difference is that Triple H calls the shots in NXT, albeit with Vince's permission really, and Vince has the final say as to what goes on with the main roster. In NXT, women are portrayed as competitors with actual feuds that don't revolve around being "crazy" or having various feminine problems. However, I highly doubt that there'll be a whole lot of changes made to the main roster because Vince ultimately doesn't want it. I think Vince has a pretty outdated view of female wrestlers and possibly even women in general when it comes to physical activity. He's either not interested in actually portraying women in a more positive, edgier and competitive light or he just doesn't really know how to and doesn't want to listen to someone who might be interested in changing their image for whatever reason.
 
As far as intergender wrestling, no. Just, flat out no. This might seem sexist but, oh well, I just can't take a male wrestler seriously that gets his ass kicked by a female wrestler. I'm a feminist but, let's be honest, what's the general view people are gonna have, male or female, of a man who gets beaten up by a woman? Answer: the guy's a pussy. On top of that, just look at the shit WWE would catch for having a man "beat up" on a woman, even in a pro wrestling match. Remember, political correctness is the new religion and it's just not okay for a guy to hit a woman. Sure, I know that the guy wouldn't really be hitting her, but it'd look like he was. Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter weren't really running down Mexican immigrants, but look at the shit storm WWE caught on account of it. CM Punk & Paul Heyman weren't really mocking Jerry Lawler's heart attack, yet people reacted as if Punk dropped his drawers, popped a squat, and dropped a deuce on the graves of loved ones who died of a heart attack.

Hi there!


chyna2_8051.jpg


Legit question here... Did it ever cross your mind recently that Chris Jericho got beat Chyna, on a regular basis? How about Eddy, does that make him a pussy? Better yet, during Mark Henry's run with the Hall of Pain, did it ever bother you that Chyna kicked his ass?

Look, I'm not saying all women should be open to fighting all men. But I find it hilarious when people discredit this idea... When it's been done before, and it worked. To quote the geniuses of our time... Whatever happened to Joanie Laurer?

Look, I'm not going to call you a sexist. I think in your effort to make a statement about political correctness (which has to be the funniest pejorative I've ever heard. Seriously, what are you telling someone when you tell them to stop being politically correct? Stop being more aware of the current climate than I am?), that you discredited something that has already happened. Sure, not all women should be fighting all men. But when the time calls for it (see, Chyna, Candice LeRae, Awesome Kong), can you give me an honest reason why it can't work?
 
You know what's funny? I think part of this subject relates to why NXT is becoming bigger in my heart than the WWE. Notice how the NXT Women's Championship actually looks like a belt that a real Champion would be proud to wear? Charlotte wears the belt like a Champion, she puts on great matches and whoever takes it from her will look better for it. Is Nikki Bella really better in our eyes for holding the Diva's Championship? No, she's still Nikki Bella and thus the Diva's Championship is the most useless kind of property there is, one that works only for the principle of pretending that anyone cares for no fucking reason.

I still mark out to Joshi matches from the '90s. Those women didn't have to worry about putting their male counterparts to shame, they were in a league all their own and they raised the bar for all pro-wrestlers regardless of gender.

The idea seems to be; we would make more money if we sold our female performers on sex appeal and restricted their repertoire of moves so as not to draw too much attention away from the male talent. One of the greatest female performers of all time, Rhonda Singh, was made into a joke named Bertha Faye and was told not to do literally every move that got her over in Japan.

Few things confuse me in this world, but one thing that does is why the WWE even tries anymore. I think that an entire generation is maturing and wants more than just Nikki in short shorts fumbling her way through a deliberately mediocre-at-best wrestling match. I'm not just hating on Nikki (well, I kind of am), the entire main roster of Diva's rarely has more than ten minutes to show what they can do, probably because they're paid to look good while wrestling and not so much to wrestle.
 
As far as intergender wrestling, no. Just, flat out no. This might seem sexist but, oh well, I just can't take a male wrestler seriously that gets his ass kicked by a female wrestler. I'm a feminist but, let's be honest, what's the general view people are gonna have, male or female, of a man who gets beaten up by a woman? Answer: the guy's a pussy. On top of that, just look at the shit WWE would catch for having a man "beat up" on a woman, even in a pro wrestling match.

I beg to differ on this point.

When Chyna was stepping up and taking on male performers, she was making it work because it wasn't difficult to imagine someone of her stature holding her own in a fight. If a male performer got his ass kicked by Chyna, that would be as detrimental to his reputation as if his ass was kicked by another guy. I'm sure you know the story of Sherri Martel's first meeting with a promoter, how she was hit across the face and asked " Is that all you got?". Sure, if a man hits a woman to feel like a big-shot then he really is a piece of shit. If a woman as tough as Sherri shows up for your wrestling match, you better hit her only for your own good.

I'll admit that for most people, watching a woman beat a man or vice versa makes them uncomfortable. I think there's marketing potential in building a female performer to the point where she's at Chyna level drawing power and putting her in the ring with any given mid-carder. All they have to do is put on a great match and I'm in.
 
I really hope it gets better... but I don't have high hopes. The Divas matches on the main card are usually silly and get cut down to a couple minutes. It's impossible to have a good match in two minutes. About them dressing skimpy, c'mon - it's ring gear - there are lots of talented male wrestlers who are good looking guys out there in nothing but wrestling trunks that have droves of female fans, it's entertainment... people want to see young, good looking people for the most part. Not people you see at the supermarket.

NXT has put on a lot of great lengthy female matches (Sasha Banks is freaking awesome... the Bank Statement finisher? Gold). It'll be interesting when people like Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch go up to the main roster - but at the same time they would probably be ruined and put into typical female storylines and not have their ability in the ring showcased, so part of me doesn't want them to go.

I don't see the actual woman wrestling being showcased seriously on WWE television now that the Total Divas show is apparently drawing a lot of views from women on the E! Network and the point of the show is to be a drama-filled faux "Reality Show"... bad news for fans of good female wrestling matches, but may draw more eyes from non-wrestling fans.
 
I would rather watch talented female wrestlers than attractive female wrestlers if you can combine the 2 thats perfect but I think WWE lately prefers the model look over actual skill but TNA manages to do it with Gail Kim, Velvet Sky, Madison Rayne etc theres a couple in WWE like AJ Lee and Paige but they seem the exception.
 
They've gotten so much better. They have a variety of female characters. Believe it or not, some women, WANT to be the pretty "diva". I feel like the Divas division is pretty true to life in terms of the personalities. I also feel like they have a great mix of eye candy and in ring talent. The Divas division is pretty solid.
 
...ok I'm just going to throw this out there...



You, guy who is calling the current crop of women glorified ****s? You're no better than the guy who disagrees with Sam's point. You're actually proving my point, in a lot of ways.

This isn't about who's on the current roster. Sure, there are some pretty bad workers in the women's division, but you can say the same about the men. Are you going to complain about Ryback the same way as the Bellas?

And if you are, are you going to call him a glorified prostitute? I would imagine not, but for whatever reason, it's ok to call the current crop of divas that? I mean, you're not even talking about how they're portrayed on television...if you said that, that would be one thing. But calling the actual women glorified prostitutes... Yeah, that's just some old fashioned woman hating, there.

Enjoy your fedora, broski. You're not giving solutions; if anything, you're part of the problem.

Because it has been long known that the Divas have almost NEVER been chosen for their wrestling ability. Are you going to stand there and saying that Nikki Bella is an actual wrestler? She can't cut a promo to save her life. She cannot wrestle to save her life. Let me put it in another way: If Nicole Colace looked like the late Rhonda Sing aka Monster Ripper aka Bertha Faye, do you HONESTLY believe she would be in a WWE ring? Never minds it's champion? If you think that Nikki STILL would, I want what you are smoking because it must be some good stuff. I will go one further: The ONLY reason she is in WWE and holds the Divas belt is because she is being boinked by Cena

As for Ryback: he is not there to get a recording contract. He is not there to get a Playboy spread. He is not there to get a modeling or acting gig. He is there to be a WRESTLER. Do you know ANYONE in the Divas locker room, other then AJ Lee, have said that they wished to be a wrestler for their career? I find them in the Indies and Japan. Most have to hold a part-time gig, or be a wrestler part-time in most places. You claim that I am part of the problem. The problem is that YOU cannot deal with the TRUTH. The only solution is to dump the current crop, and bring in women, irregardless of looks, who are there to be WRESTLERS. Why not bring in Sasha Banks, Charlotte, Natalya, and maybe Bayley. Keep AJ, Paige and maybe either Emma or Tamina Snuka. Then, go raid the Indies, Japan and TNA. Start off with Jessicka Havok, then grab Mia Yim, LuFisto, MsChif and Christine von Eerie. Then go across the Pacific, and sign Kana, Kaori Yoneyama, and keep eyes on some of the younger talent.

You say I offer no solutions? the OP mentioned a BELT? Like the belt is the problem. Why should the Titan Towers Gang give a damn about women's wrestling when the majority of the "Divas" in the WWE could care less. You want better things in the Divas Division? Want better storylines? Want better exposure for the Divas? Get better female WRESTLERS! Not those who are there to get a break in commercials, the music industry, or skin mags. And the only ones that can force the hands of TPTB are the FANS.
 
Because it has been long known that the Divas have almost NEVER been chosen for their wrestling ability. Are you going to stand there and saying that Nikki Bella is an actual wrestler? She can't cut a promo to save her life. She cannot wrestle to save her life. Let me put it in another way: If Nicole Colace looked like the late Rhonda Sing aka Monster Ripper aka Bertha Faye, do you HONESTLY believe she would be in a WWE ring? Never minds it's champion? If you think that Nikki STILL would, I want what you are smoking because it must be some good stuff. I will go one further: The ONLY reason she is in WWE and holds the Divas belt is because she is being boinked by Cena.

Actually, I want what you're smoking because your ignorance amazes me. Nikki Bella and Brie Bella, for a long time now, have been very solid performers in the ring. But because you're too busy with rose colored glasses, and writing them off, you haven't been able to see it. And if I'm being honest, they're both leaps and bounds above Trish Stratus and Sable ever were, and she's damn sure better than AJ Lee. I'm not going to say they're in league with Mickie, Lita, Victoria, Natalya, or any of them; but far far worse have been in WWE before.

--

As for how to fix the Diva's Division, I don't see too much wrong but a few things really.

1. Get rid of AJ Lee. She's so unbearable it's not even funny. I got tired of seeing her the second week of NXT Season 3, got even more tired of her as GM, and literally flipped over to Family Guy every time she came out as Diva's Champion. I felt a huge sigh of relief when Paige finally took the title off of her, because Paige at least doesn't bore me to death.

2. Make Sara Del Rey the agent for ALL Divas matches. I'm sure she'll lax a bit on some matches like a Paige vs. Natalya, but let's say WWE wants to run a Summer Rae vs. Eva Marie match... with Del Rey as the match agent, it'll be a lot better than it normally would be otherwise.

3. Charlotte is ready. Call her up. Forget about the programs in NXT. They're pre-recorded, who cares? Big E was heel on Raw but face when NXT Champion. Just give her the call up, a real one, and let her work. Put her in a program with someone like Natalya or Paige where she can be equally matched until someone else is ready.

4. Stop with the cluster fuck matches. Nobody's going to care if you randomly throw divas into the match. Give these divas 2 matches (or 1 match/1 Promo) on each Raw, one on Smackdown, and one on Main Event. Treat them like you would the male wrestlers. Otherwise, you'll degrade the Diva's title as much as you did when Madusa was Women's champion.

5. Bring in some female legends. Jacqueline is always willing to play ball, and somehow she's found the fountain of youth. Jazz is a boss, always will be. And I'm sure Kelly Kelly would be willing to come back. Okay she's not a legend, but she's recognition.
 
I don't mind the name Diva, works for me and defines the division with a catchier name that "women's division".

If the belt design is on someone's priority list, they really don't see the problems that matter in the division.

I think the problem stems from the talent on the roster, they are making valets into wrestlers for no reason. They need to shorten the in-ring talent to actual wrestlers and with that focus, start giving them more promo time to develop the storylines.

I would start attaching Diva's and Superstars more as well, allows them to participate in other storylines and can offshoot to ones of their own. Can CJ wrestle? Because she has so much heat from Rusev, so they already have the template for this that deserves more exploitation.

Oh, and no more cheap rollup pins.
 
I would rather watch talented female wrestlers than attractive female wrestlers if you can combine the 2 thats perfect but I think WWE lately prefers the model look over actual skill but TNA manages to do it with Gail Kim, Velvet Sky, Madison Rayne etc theres a couple in WWE like AJ Lee and Paige but they seem the exception.

Still scratching my head why Velvet Sky hasn't wrestled in WWE aside from not being one of their "products"... she's wrestled for years in indies and TNA, has a great attitude for the business and towards fans and has a realism about her - let's not forget - she is hot.
 
Three words. Dirty. Dutch. Mantle

His dedication and understanding of the talent put the Knock Outs division near the top of TNA. If management allowed for the appropriate amount of programming time and let him run with it I am confident we would see an upward swing with the division.
 

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