Winner's Bracket Debate #16: DirtyJose -vs- Mitch Hennessey

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2012' started by D-Man, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Would jumping to the WWE benefit or hurt Samoa Joe?


    This is a second round, winner's bracket debate in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

    DirtyJose won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

    After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals.

    There is no maximum amount of posts for debaters in this round. Debaters can create unlimited replies until the allotted time of the debate runs out.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 5pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Sunday at 11am EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck to the participants.
     
    #1
  2. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    I will make the choice of which side I will present, and I choose to argue that jumping to the WWE would benefit Samoa Joe.
     
    #2
  3. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    I choose to go first.
     
    #3
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  4. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Signing with WWE would hurt Samoa Joe, and here are the reasons why I feel this way:

    Joe doesn't have anything to complain about in TNA

    Usually, when a wrestler decides to jump to another promotion, he's unhappy about something at his current job. He could be upset at the lack of a push, misuse of his character, or he could be tired of waiting for his big break. But why should Joe be unhappy in TNA? Samoa Joe is a Tag Team Champion, and he does form a pretty entertaining duo with Magnus. Joe is currently at the top of TNA's tag team division, the team of Maguns and Joe do have some real potential, and Joe does receive his fair share of TV time. Joe is currently a champion in TNA. This is a sure thing, but an uncertain future awaits him in WWE.

    Samoa Joe isn't a recognizable name or face

    A jump to WWE would benefit guys like Sting and Jeff Hardy, because they are well known names in the world of professional wrestling. They have a great amount of name value, and the fans would instantly react to them with huge ovations, but the same thing can't be said about Joe. Sure, die hard indy wrestling fans will recognize Joe, but the masses won't know who this guy is.

    Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are ROH legends, who eventually reached the mountain top in WWE. Joe was a legend in ROH, but........

    He's also a thirty-three year old man. CM Punk was also considered an ROH God and an indy legend. He eventually made it to the top, but it took him six years to reach the level of a consistent main event guy. Punk is thirty-three now, he's in his prime, and WWE can still get a lot of him. Daniel Bryan's character has caught fire recently, but it's taken him two years to get to this level, and Bryan is only thirty, so he still has plenty of time left. Also, when it comes to the popularity of former ROH guys, Joe has a low spot on the totem pole. He's behind Punk and Bryan, so Joe wouldn't have any bragging rights for being the most popular indy guy in WWE, and this would be another strike against him.

    WWE would have to take time to build Joe, and years go by fast in pro wrestling, and he'll be nearing forty before you know it.

    Joe has been known to have a backstage attitude before, and Vince McMahon will not put up with any BS

    Despite his attitude problems, TNA hasn't kicked Joe to the curb. They've stuck with him, and Joe still has a spot on their roster. Do you remember this?

    http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/147998

    Would Joe have a job, if he did something like this in WWE? It's a tough question to answer, because WWE might show some leniency, but Joe would have a better chance of getting the boot. And what happens, if Vince wants Joe to lose some weight? What happens if Joe refuses? He'll receive his walking papers, or Vince would job him out to anyone with a pair of tights, and Joe would look like a fool. If you want to work in Vince's world, you MUST play by his rules all the way. You must give him 100% of your cooperation. There is no middle ground. Here's a quote from former WWE Champion, Brock Lesnar:

    http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/mmaufcnews/article10018747.shtml

    Joe could put himself in a pressure filled situation, and sometimes, the grass isn't greener on the other side.

    Joe is taking a big risk, if he makes a jump to WWE. He's one of the more recognizable and popular TNA veterans, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Joe will have to worry about starting from scratch, if he joins WWE, and in his case, the risk doesn't outweigh the reward. Joe has established himself in TNA, but he'll have to stat all over again if he goes to WWE, and at thirty-three, that could be a huge problem for him. Bottom line, Joe is taking an unnecessary risk, if he jumps ship to WWE.
     
    #4
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  5. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    WWE + SAMOA JOE = GOOD BUSINESS FOR JOE

    What does this mean? It means that a jump to the WWE is good for Joe almost anyway you cut it. At best, he could go there and find his best spot ever as a cap on a long career. At worst, he'd still be getting far more exposure than he ever has and likely getting bigger paychecks than ever before. Would Joe be a top guy? That doesn't really matter. He'd still be doing better than he has been doing in TNA.

    The Grandest Stage

    The playing field may be more diverse than it has been in years, but WWE is still at the top of the industry, and it's not even close. Whether he's brought in to tangle with someone like Punk or he's brought in for a run in the middle, Joe will be getting more exposure than he's ever had before. He'll be working more shows, bigger shows, and be seen by more people. These are nothing but good things for his career and legacy.

    The Bigger Honeypot

    Jokes are often made of the deep pockets that the Carters provide for TNA. Those coffers can't be as deep, however, as those of Mr. McMahon. WWE is top dollar. Working more shows and for bigger crowds, Joe would stand to make more money than he is now. A few years in the WWE for a good price could easily set him up for a good long while, and in the least would be a better pay than what he's been making. It's common knowledge that WWE performers make a cut of a big PPV show, and with the forecast looking like Wrestlemania just made some huge numbers, I think it's safe to say Joe could be a part of that windfall if he took a step back over the line.

    The Legacy of Samoa Joe

    From a kayfabe point of view, Samoa Joe stands to gain by joining the WWE. He has old friends and peers with which to build storylines from. The gimmick is able to start fresh, ditching the previous years of face/tweener/heel switches and baggage from his lengthy TNA runs in favor of beginning anew and refined. And from a real world point of view, Samoa Joe becomes a hot topic by making the jump. TNA snaps up most anything WWE throws out hoping it'll bring some fans over to watch the show; in this case, Samoa Joe wouldn't be headed to WWE because he was busted on a drug test or because his girlfriend has rubbed some people the wrong way but because it's the next logical step in most any professional wrestler's career. This wouldn't be WWE picking up after TNA; this would be one of the biggest plays in the cold war between TNA and WWE. At the center of it all, Joe would be in a position to profit from all of the attention the IWC will lavish upon him for making the move.

    Samoa Joe should cross the line to the WWE

    WWE is at the top of the world of professional wrestling. WWE is mainstream pop culture. It is a brand recognized the world over. Their production team is second to none. I can see no reason why Samoa Joe wouldn't stand to benefit by making the switch to the big leagues. If they called him up tomorrow and made him and offer, he'd be a fool to decline.
     
    #5
  6. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Samoa Joe is very loyal to TNA. Going to WWE could give his career a tremendous boost, but Joe would have to take a big gamble for this to happen. The risk might not payoff, and Joe already has rich history in TNA. He's a former TNA World Heavyweight Champion, a four-time X-Division Champion, and a two time TNA World Tag Team Champion. He's also a former winner of the Super X Cup, and he's the only champion to retain his title in the King OF The Mountain match. Joe has piled up a good amount of accolades in TNA, and as far as storylines go, he's always near some very meaningful materiel (attacking the Bound For Glory Series participants, being apart of the "They" stroyline in 2010, feuding with Sting in 2008, etc.). Joe has worked hard to build up a legacy in TNA. Going to WWE could do wonders for his career, but the risk really isn't worth it, when you look at the bigger picture, because Joe would walk into an uncertain future.

    And what's wrong with his current status in TNA? Joe is a Tag Team Champion, and pay per view time is pretty much a sure fire guarantee for him. Joe might have to start all over again, and he is taking an unnecessary risk, if he goes to TNA, because he doesn't have anything to complain about now.

    True. The WWE will provide more exposure, but how much exposure will Joe see? The main event is reserved for the bigger names (Punk, Orton, Cena, etc.), and WWE's mid-card is pretty crowded, so where could he fit in? Also, TNA has given Joe's character a good amount of spotlight in the past.


    In 2011 Joe went on a rampage during the Bound For Glory series, as he attacked members of a tournament that would decide TNA's #1 contender for a WHC match at Bound For Glory. Say what will about the conclusion of the "They" storyline in 2010, but this was a huge angle in TNA, that involved Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, and Jeff Hardy. Joe was betrayed by Jeff Jarrett (his tag team partner) at Bound For Glory 2010, so he did play a part in TNA's major storyline that year. And in 2009 Joe was built up as the unstoppable monster, who could annihilate the entire roster during the Nation Of Violence stroyline, and he eventually joined the Main Event Mafia. He was a hitman for the Mafia during the feud with the Frontline, at Victory Road 2009 Joe faced Sting, and Joe was interested into another major storyline. Also, Joe main evented Bound For Glory 2008 against Sting as the TNA World Heavyweight Champion.

    Joe main evented TNA's flagship pay per view in 2008. Could you picture him in the main event of Wrestlemania? I know I can't. Hell, Zack Ryder probably has a better of chance of making into a Wresltemania main event one day.

    The grander stage in WWE is an alluring temptation for any wrestler, but Joe is running the risk of taking some huge steps backwards, if he joins WWE, especially when you consider his previous high profiled spots in TNA.

    The bigger paycheck can always be a temptation, but Joe doesn't have any problems with his current financial situation. Joe doesn't have any problems with his paychecks from TNA, and here's a little paraphrased piece from a recent interview with AllWrestling.com that explains his money deal with TNA:

    You can fast forward to 7:25 to hear this part of the interview.

    http://allwrestling.com/shownotes.aspx?ID=320

    The promise of a bigger payday sounds nice, but Joe is loyal to TNA, so bigger paychecks wouldn't be enough to lure him away.

    Besides internet and ROH fans, who would really care about a Joe/Punk or Joe Bryan match? There are only a handful of people, who remember Joe's highly praised trilogy of matches with Punk in ROH, and most people don't know about their five star match from World Title Classic in 2004, so how could the crowd make a connection with their matches from the past?. And who else would be able to identify the importance of a pre match handshake? Everyone won't recognize the code of honor, and the majority of the audience will just see this an ordinary handshake.

    WWE could enhance Joe's legacy, but Joe still has some unfinished business in TNA, and he isn't ready to walk away. Here's another excerpt from the interview I just posted:

    You can fast forward to 16:30 to hear this portion of the interview.

    Joe could possibly bring in some new fans, and the thought of seeing a Joe/Punk match in WWE would send the IWC into a frenzy, but would WWE put him in a high profiled storyline? CM Punk just defended his WWE Championship at Wrestlemania. Chris Jericho is a well known name in professional wrestling, he has a lot more name value than Joe, and Joe doesn't have any true star power. In order to build a big time feud, WWE would have to put a lot of effort and time into Joe's character, and when it comes to Joe's age, time isn't on his side.


    Joe might be fool, if he declines an offer from WWE. After all, most football players dream of making it to the NFL, most basketball players dream of making it to the NBA, and most baseball players dream of making it to the MLB. And if you're a wrestler, your main goal is landing a spot on WWE's roster, because if you can make it WWE, you've made it to the big leagues. But Joe doesn't fit into that mold. He's not tempted by the bigger stage, the bigger paychecks, or the flashy production values. He's loyal to TNA, and finishing his career as a TNA wrestler is a very realistic possibility.

    If we were talking about Kurt Angle or Sting in this situation, then I wouldn't have a problem with them joining TNA. Sting has built up a legendary reputation over the years, and Kurt Angle is one of the more high profiled veterans in pro wrestling, so they're not taking a big risk, if they make they jump. The have the cushion of their rich reputations to fall back on, but Joe doesn't have that same luxury.
     
    #6
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  7. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    While I wouldn't call Samoa Joe's current place in TNA garbage, I wouldn't call it a sure thing either. He can certainly do better, and WWE could be the place for that. Regardless, the point is that while his spot in TNA may not be total shit right now, it's also not the top of the mountain. There are potentially bigger checks and bigger opportunities in the WWE, which is why I think it would benefit him to make the jump.

    But the masses can learn. Daniel Bryan was an unknown to these people too, but that hasn't stopped him from building a fan base. No, Joe is not Sting or Hardy, so no, he does not come over with the fanfare built in. However, that's not to say a jump would not benefit him.

    You've got to analyze the potential. In TNA, Joe's potential has been slowing wasted away. He's gone from top guy, from top title contender down to enhancement talent and mid-range heel. He's a champ on tv right now, sure. How long before that was he putting over Crimson? Or Matt Morgan? How long before that was he involved in a silly and pointless reveal with Tazz? How much longer before TNA puts Joe in a similar position? Would WWE use him the same way? Does it matter if he's getting a bigger paycheck?

    Those fans know and love Steve Austin though, right? So when last year Austin was talking up Samoa Joe and how the WWE should swoop in to pick him up, you don't think many fans went on to check out who this guy is? Or in the rise of Bryan and Punk, you don't think people have ended up finding out about Samoa Joe through YouTube'd ROH matches?

    And 40 is far from the death knell on a career in wrestling. Also, what you fail to point out is that when Punk and Bryan wound up in the WWE, they were young. Both were sent to hone their skills (at OVW and FCW respectively). Joe doesn't need that as much. Joe's been on TV for years. Joe knows how to develop a gimmick and knows how to work the mic and knows how to put on a TV match that's more in line with the WWE/TNA style than the ROH style. This is why guys like Bryan and Punk started out so low.

    So he'd start out in the pecking order behind Punk and Bryan. Does that still mean he can't play the "indy leagues" card? Wouldn't that be a good place to build a heel rep from? I believe you underestimate the ways WWE could use Joe. I also believe you underestimate what a few good years in the WWE can do for a wrestler's career and legacy. Even if WWE only got 6-7 years out of him, it's more than likely that more wrestling fans will know and love Samoa Joe than if he just stays in TNA his whole career.

    Samoa has been a bit outspoken before, but hardly to the level where he has a reputation for it. So the TNA production crew screws the pooch; good thing the WWE production crew is a much more professional and well-organized beast.

    Besides the one given example, Joe has remained a rather professional worker during his long tenure in TNA. In an interview from this year, Joe had this to say when questioned about TNA's "up and down" booking habits:

    To me, that sounds like someone willing to work through difficulty who is more likely to focus on what he can do to improve his place rather than bitch to Twitter and the dirtsheets.

    His future in TNA is likewise uncertain. He's a tag champ now, sure. How much longer before he's fed to newer guys again? When guys like Storm and Roode are being tapped as the new generation, how long can guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles stick around waiting for another shot at the top? Staying in TNA is likewise a risk; a risk that he'll wind up as a mid-card "has-been" player utilized mainly for putting over newer talent? Is that an admirable position? Sure. Again, they can't all be top guys. But to make the jump to the WWE, with the bigger paychecks and the bigger shows, the risk isn't as big as you would think.

    TNA has been hot and cold for Samoa. He spent much of 2010 not on screen, gone for weeks at a time. As for where Joe would fit in WWE, I'd look to Smackdown first. Mark Henry has lost most all of his steam as a top monster heel. Cody Rhodes isn't quite ready to be the top heel. Christian is still on the shelf with injury. Guys like Sheamus, Bryan, and Orton could all use a fresh face to work with, and Joe would fit in there perfectly. Smackdown needs star power, with Raw getting Rock and Brock. Samoa Joe is the kind of thing they need.

    I think the risk of making the jump is better than the risk of stagnation in TNA. He's had a few hands in some storylines, true. But he's just as often gone for weeks at a time. He's watching guys newer to TNA get rushed up the cards off the backs of guys like him and Styles. He looks over at Bryan and Punk and sees what these guys are doing and wants a bit of that. Does it matter if Joe get top billing in the WWE? He's still making more money, and getting more exposure, and that is what makes a wrestling career. A few years in the WWE and now EVERYBODY knows who he is, not just old ROH fans and TNA viewers.

    That Joe is loyal to TNA has nothing to do with the argument of whether the WWE would be a better place for him right now. All I get out of this is that Joe is a good worker to have, loyal to a fault. This flies in the face of your previous argument that Joe would run afoul of McMahon with some sort of outburst. At least we agree that Joe stands to make more money in the WWE, thus being a benefit to him if he made the jump.

    You underestimate the power of WWE's production team. I can picture in my head the potential for an amazing promo video to buildup such a match. People may not know about their past now, but they will once WWE makes it a point to inform them of it.

    Note that he prefaces that with that he wished TNA would see what Steve Austin sees. He's loyal to TNA, but even here he expresses that TNA isn't using him the best way they could. And anyway, the point is that WWE would be better for him than TNA is, not whether or not he'd actually make the jump.

    Joe isn't any older than most of the other guys in the WWE, so I don't see why you keep bringing that up. Would some work be required to fit him into the WWE Universe? Yes. But Joe doesn't need the polish work of a stint in development systems like FCW. Let him start out on Smackdown, ripping through the lower end workers. Once guys like Punk start to cool off, and once Joe has some momentum, throw them together.

    And once again, the point isn't that Joe needs a ride on the very top to make a jump to the WWE a success. Even if he's only around a few years, his stock rises being there. After leaving, he can demand more from any future employer, including TNA.

    That's his choice to make. But we aren't here to argue what Joe would and wouldn't do; we're here to argue what Joe maybe should do, and whether that would be better or worse for him.

    But where did Angle form his legacy? In the WWE. Where did Sting? In WCW. Neither of these two "made it" by sticking with TNA; TNA is just where they've gone to die. TNA does not put people onto that level. WWE does. If anything, if Joe wants to be remembered and widely known and respected as one of the best of his generation, he needs to make the jump to the WWE.

    SOURCES:

    Austin pushes Joe on Twitter: http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/194981

    Joe on TNA booking: http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/TNA_News_1/article_57937.shtml
     
    #7
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  8. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Climbing to the top of the mountain in WWE won't be an easy task for Joe. Punk, Cena, and Orton are already hold the top tier positions. All of these men held World Championships in 2011, and Joe can't be brought in as a high profiled new comer. It just won't work, because he doesn't have the resumé to back it up. Plus, he's going to have to take a backseat to WWE's newer stars, who are set to receive big pushes. Alberto Del Rio has already found his way back into the WHC picture, Cody Rhodes has been one of WWE's more high profiled stars over the past few years, and Wade Barrett is set to receive a big push upon his return. Joe will have to wait in line behind a lot of people, but he's already a Tag Team Champion in TNA, so why he should he risk championship status for an uncertain future?

    I can see where you're coming from here, but you have to remember, Joe is behind Punk and Bryan, when it comes to the popularity of former ROH guys. Sure, a select portion of the audience will be able to identify him, but Punk and Bryan will be remembered as the more popular ROH stars of the past.

    True. There's no guarantee Joe will stay in his current role as a champion, and he could fall back down the ladder again, and he could become stuck in a ridiculous storyline. But history has shown us TNA IS willing to take chances on him. They are willing to put him near big storylines, they are willing to put championship gold around his waist, and his character has received meaningful material before. But we have no idea what WWE might do with Joe's character. Joe is taking a big risk, and I don't think the bigger paycheck would be worth it

    Austin's praise of Joe probably inspired some people to look up some videos of Joe's matches, but that doesn't guarantee a fan following. More people will probably know who Joe is, but that doesn't mean they're going to become fans of the guy. They know, who he is. That's all.

    Forty might not be a death sentence for a pro wrestling career, but WWE is pushing the youth movement pretty hard, and Joe might not be able to find a meaningful spot on WWE's roster.
     
    #8
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  9. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Wow... Mitch BARELY squeezed in that last post.

    This debate is officially closed. Good job by both participants.

    The judges can begin doing their thing.
     
    #9
  10. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Sorry, DirtyJose but that last post of yours has been deleted. The cutoff time in this debate was an hour ago.
     
    #10
  11. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Clarity: Jose earns the point for me. He had a set of core points which he stuck to and repeated in new ways. he also thought through several ways of working on Samoa Joe's WWE career (promo videos, where he could fit in the card etc...)

    Punctuality: Mitch was fairly consistent with his timings. Jose's were a bit all over the place.

    Informative: Mitch brought more with audio and print versions of interviews/news stories, and as such, he'll be taking home the point.

    Persuasion: Tough call on this front. There were some good arguments on both side, and this was a debate where I did not feel strongly about the subject so I was open to absorbing as much information on this one. Overall though, I thought DirtyJose was the man able to pull out the more convincing debate. His points were clear and he counteracted Mitch's at the same time. For me these are Jose's points.

    FunKay Scores It: Jose: 3, Mitch: 2
     
    #11
  12. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity - Both openers stuck out in a very nice way. I was almost sure that Mitch was going to get this, but it seemed to me he got a little skiddish throughout. Jose was on point with his arguments all the way through. Very excellent from the both of you though.

    Point - DirtyJosé

    Punctuality - Jose was late, and Mitch was generally within the 24 hour mark. If he were on time this was Jose's.

    Point - R.J. MacReady

    Informative - Both brought in nice info. Mitch seemed to bring in more links, and nice audio for his side, so he gets this point.

    Point - R.J. MacReady

    Persuasion - I'm siding with Jose on this one. The WWE gives Joe much more opportunity to be seen by a wider audience than he does in TNA, and being on the roster for even a couple years could easily boost his stock. Mitch put up a hell of a fight, but in the end Jose got me.

    Points - DirtyJosé

    CH David scores this DirtyJosé 3, R.J. MacReady 2.
     
    #12
  13. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Clarity: While both guys did a nice job in their opening posts, DirtyJosé had posts that were easier on my eyes. I've got to give him this point.

    Point - DirtyJosé

    Punctuality: Pretty much what everyone else said.

    Point - Mitch

    Informative: Both guys were almost dead-even in this category but I really feel that Mitch went the extra step. He used all types of media; from quotes to videos to Twitter messages by other wrestlers.

    Point - Mitch

    Persuasion: I'm not judging this ONLY on who convinced me.
    Both guys brought a lot of great info and made their points clear. But although this is a forum and it's hard to see emotion, I think one of the two competitors brought more of their heart into this one.

    Furthermore, the most important factor was how one debater's replies were structured in a way that (I feel) made them look very weak. They would completely agree with their competitor's points and then add their own. Guys, you need to convince the judges of two things in these debates; that your debate is the right side and the other's debate is wrong. By agreeing with their points and then adding your own, you really make me feel like there is no competition. Why would you debate them if all of their points are 100% right? If that were true, and since this thing has two sides, that makes you wrong. My Persuasion points go to...

    Points - DirtyJosé

    D-Man scores this:

    DirtyJosé 3
    Mitch 2

    Good job by both parties.
     
    #13
  14. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Clarity of debate -I can't really say anything negative about both of the opening post's. They were both well structured and organized. I'm going to give the point to Mitch simply because I liked that he included interviews and quoted something in his opening post. Both were great, but I liked Mitch's style just a little bit more.

    Punctuality - Same as everyone else. Mitch gets the point.

    Informative - Both men brought in great information here and I'm so glad they did everything I was looking for. Both brought in just enough info, but I thought Mitch made better use of it so I'm going to give him the point.

    Persuasion - Ultimately, Dirty was able to convince me that it would actually be beneficial for Joe to jump ship to WWE. Even if it's for a few years it could really help Joe's career and boost it in the process. I also do want to echo what D-Man said about agreeing with each other. It's okay to acknowledge someone might be right about something, but I saw it too much for my liking here.

    Mitch: 3 points, DirtyJose: 2 points.
     
    #14
  15. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Congratulations to DirtyJosé who edges Mitch by a close score of 11-9. He will move onto Winner's semi-final bracket #22 to face Stormtrooper while Mitch moves down to Loser's bracket #20 to face the winner of Aweome_Miz and Mr. Steve.

    A very nice debate by both of you.
     
    #15
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