Joe doesn't have anything to complain about in TNA
Usually, when a wrestler decides to jump to another promotion, he's unhappy about something at his current job. He could be upset at the lack of a push, misuse of his character, or he could be tired of waiting for his big break. But why should Joe be unhappy in TNA? Samoa Joe is a Tag Team Champion, and he does form a pretty entertaining duo with Magnus. Joe is currently at the top of TNA's tag team division, the team of Maguns and Joe do have some real potential, and Joe does receive his fair share of TV time. Joe is currently a champion in TNA. This is a sure thing, but an uncertain future awaits him in WWE.
While I wouldn't call Samoa Joe's current place in TNA garbage, I wouldn't call it a sure thing either. He can certainly do better, and WWE could be the place for that. Regardless, the point is that while his spot in TNA may not be total shit right now, it's also not the top of the mountain. There are potentially bigger checks and bigger opportunities in the WWE, which is why I think it would benefit him to make the jump.
Samoa Joe isn't a recognizable name or face
A jump to WWE would benefit guys like Sting and Jeff Hardy, because they are well known names in the world of professional wrestling. They have a great amount of name value, and the fans would instantly react to them with huge ovations, but the same thing can't be said about Joe. Sure, die hard indy wrestling fans will recognize Joe, but the masses won't know who this guy is.
But the masses can learn. Daniel Bryan was an unknown to these people too, but that hasn't stopped him from building a fan base. No, Joe is not Sting or Hardy, so no, he does not come over with the fanfare built in. However, that's not to say a jump would not benefit him.
You've got to analyze the potential. In TNA, Joe's potential has been slowing wasted away. He's gone from top guy, from top title contender down to enhancement talent and mid-range heel. He's a champ on tv right now, sure. How long before that was he putting over Crimson? Or Matt Morgan? How long before that was he involved in a silly and pointless reveal with Tazz? How much longer before TNA puts Joe in a similar position? Would WWE use him the same way? Does it matter if he's getting a bigger paycheck?
Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are ROH legends, who eventually reached the mountain top in WWE. Joe was a legend in ROH, but........
He's also a thirty-three year old man. CM Punk was also considered an ROH God and an indy legend. He eventually made it to the top, but it took him six years to reach the level of a consistent main event guy. Punk is thirty-three now, he's in his prime, and WWE can still get a lot of him. Daniel Bryan's character has caught fire recently, but it's taken him two years to get to this level, and Bryan is only thirty, so he still has plenty of time left. Also, when it comes to the popularity of former ROH guys, Joe has a low spot on the totem pole. He's behind Punk and Bryan, so Joe wouldn't have any bragging rights for being the most popular indy guy in WWE, and this would be another strike against him.
WWE would have to take time to build Joe, and years go by fast in pro wrestling, and he'll be nearing forty before you know it.
Those fans know and love Steve Austin though, right? So when last year Austin was talking up Samoa Joe and how the WWE should swoop in to pick him up, you don't think many fans went on to check out who this guy is? Or in the rise of Bryan and Punk, you don't think people have ended up finding out about Samoa Joe through YouTube'd ROH matches?
And 40 is far from the death knell on a career in wrestling. Also, what you fail to point out is that when Punk and Bryan wound up in the WWE, they were young. Both were sent to hone their skills (at OVW and FCW respectively). Joe doesn't need that as much. Joe's been on TV for years. Joe knows how to develop a gimmick and knows how to work the mic and knows how to put on a TV match that's more in line with the WWE/TNA style than the ROH style. This is why guys like Bryan and Punk started out so low.
So he'd start out in the pecking order behind Punk and Bryan. Does that still mean he can't play the "indy leagues" card? Wouldn't that be a good place to build a heel rep from? I believe you underestimate the ways WWE could use Joe. I also believe you underestimate what a few good years in the WWE can do for a wrestler's career and legacy. Even if WWE only got 6-7 years out of him, it's more than likely that more wrestling fans will know and love Samoa Joe than if he just stays in TNA his whole career.
Joe has been known to have a backstage attitude before, and Vince McMahon will not put up with any BS
Despite his attitude problems, TNA hasn't kicked Joe to the curb. They've stuck with him, and Joe still has a spot on their roster. Do you remember this?
http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/147998
Would Joe have a job, if he did something like this in WWE? It's a tough question to answer, because WWE
might show some leniency, but Joe would have a better chance of getting the boot. And what happens, if Vince wants Joe to lose some weight? What happens if Joe refuses? He'll receive his walking papers, or Vince would job him out to anyone with a pair of tights, and Joe would look like a fool. If you want to work in Vince's world, you MUST play by his rules all the way. You must give him 100% of your cooperation. There is no middle ground. Here's a quote from former WWE Champion, Brock Lesnar:
http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/mmaufcnews/article10018747.shtml
Joe could put himself in a pressure filled situation, and sometimes, the grass isn't greener on the other side.
Samoa has been a bit outspoken before, but hardly to the level where he has a reputation for it. So the TNA production crew screws the pooch; good thing the WWE production crew is a much more professional and well-organized beast.
Besides the one given example, Joe has remained a rather professional worker during his long tenure in TNA. In an interview from this year, Joe had this to say when questioned about TNA's "up and down" booking habits:
"As far as the past few years, there have been rocky points at times. At the same time, I defy anybody to find a wrestling career that was picture-perfect all the way through. It's a marathon, not a race, and I'm willing to complete it," Joe said. He added that he would be wasting his time complaining "instead of doing things on my end to try and fix it."
To me, that sounds like someone willing to work through difficulty who is more likely to focus on what he can do to improve his place rather than bitch to Twitter and the dirtsheets.
Samoa Joe is very loyal to TNA. Going to WWE could give his career a tremendous boost, but Joe would have to take a big gamble for this to happen. The risk might not payoff, and Joe already has rich history in TNA. He's a former TNA World Heavyweight Champion, a four-time X-Division Champion, and a two time TNA World Tag Team Champion. He's also a former winner of the Super X Cup, and he's the only champion to retain his title in the King OF The Mountain match. Joe has piled up a good amount of accolades in TNA, and as far as storylines go, he's always near some very meaningful materiel (attacking the Bound For Glory Series participants, being apart of the "They" stroyline in 2010, feuding with Sting in 2008, etc.). Joe has worked hard to build up a legacy in TNA. Going to WWE could do wonders for his career, but the risk really isn't worth it, when you look at the bigger picture, because Joe would walk into an uncertain future.
His future in TNA is likewise uncertain. He's a tag champ now, sure. How much longer before he's fed to newer guys again? When guys like Storm and Roode are being tapped as the new generation, how long can guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles stick around waiting for another shot at the top? Staying in TNA is likewise a risk; a risk that he'll wind up as a mid-card "has-been" player utilized mainly for putting over newer talent? Is that an admirable position? Sure. Again, they can't all be top guys. But to make the jump to the WWE, with the bigger paychecks and the bigger shows, the risk isn't as big as you would think.
True. The WWE will provide more exposure, but how much exposure will Joe see? The main event is reserved for the bigger names (Punk, Orton, Cena, etc.), and WWE's mid-card is pretty crowded, so where could he fit in? Also, TNA has given Joe's character a good amount of spotlight in the past.
TNA has been hot and cold for Samoa. He spent much of 2010 not on screen, gone for weeks at a time. As for where Joe would fit in WWE, I'd look to Smackdown first. Mark Henry has lost most all of his steam as a top monster heel. Cody Rhodes isn't quite ready to be the top heel. Christian is still on the shelf with injury. Guys like Sheamus, Bryan, and Orton could all use a fresh face to work with, and Joe would fit in there perfectly. Smackdown needs star power, with Raw getting Rock and Brock. Samoa Joe is the kind of thing they need.
In 2011 Joe went on a rampage during the Bound For Glory series, as he attacked members of a tournament that would decide TNA's #1 contender for a WHC match at Bound For Glory. Say what will about the conclusion of the "They" storyline in 2010, but this was a huge angle in TNA, that involved Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, and Jeff Hardy. Joe was betrayed by Jeff Jarrett (his tag team partner) at Bound For Glory 2010, so he did play a part in TNA's major storyline that year. And in 2009 Joe was built up as the unstoppable monster, who could annihilate the entire roster during the Nation Of Violence stroyline, and he eventually joined the Main Event Mafia. He was a hitman for the Mafia during the feud with the Frontline, at Victory Road 2009 Joe faced Sting, and Joe was interested into another major storyline. Also, Joe main evented Bound For Glory 2008 against Sting as the TNA World Heavyweight Champion.
Joe main evented TNA's flagship pay per view in 2008. Could you picture him in the main event of Wrestlemania? I know I can't. Hell, Zack Ryder probably has a better of chance of making into a Wresltemania main event one day.
The grander stage in WWE is an alluring temptation for any wrestler, but Joe is running the risk of taking some huge steps backwards, if he joins WWE, especially when you consider his previous high profiled spots in TNA.
I think the risk of making the jump is better than the risk of stagnation in TNA. He's had a few hands in some storylines, true. But he's just as often gone for weeks at a time. He's watching guys newer to TNA get rushed up the cards off the backs of guys like him and Styles. He looks over at Bryan and Punk and sees what these guys are doing and wants a bit of that. Does it matter if Joe get top billing in the WWE? He's still making more money, and getting more exposure, and that is what makes a wrestling career. A few years in the WWE and now EVERYBODY knows who he is, not just old ROH fans and TNA viewers.
The bigger paycheck can always be a temptation, but Joe doesn't have any problems with his current financial situation. Joe doesn't have any problems with his paychecks from TNA, and here's a little paraphrased piece from a recent interview with AllWrestling.com that explains his money deal with TNA:
You can fast forward to 7:25 to hear this part of the interview.
http://allwrestling.com/shownotes.aspx?ID=320
The promise of a bigger payday sounds nice, but Joe is loyal to TNA, so bigger paychecks wouldn't be enough to lure him away.
That Joe is loyal to TNA has nothing to do with the argument of whether the WWE would be a better place for him right now. All I get out of this is that Joe is a good worker to have, loyal to a fault. This flies in the face of your previous argument that Joe would run afoul of McMahon with some sort of outburst. At least we agree that Joe stands to make more money in the WWE, thus being a benefit to him if he made the jump.
Besides internet and ROH fans, who would really care about a Joe/Punk or Joe Bryan match? There are only a handful of people, who remember Joe's highly praised trilogy of matches with Punk in ROH, and most people don't know about their five star match from World Title Classic in 2004, so how could the crowd make a connection with their matches from the past?. And who else would be able to identify the importance of a pre match handshake? Everyone won't recognize the code of honor, and the majority of the audience will just see this an ordinary handshake.
You underestimate the power of WWE's production team. I can picture in my head the potential for an amazing promo video to buildup such a match. People may not know about their past now, but they will once WWE makes it a point to inform them of it.
WWE could enhance Joe's legacy, but Joe still has some unfinished business in TNA, and he isn't ready to walk away. Here's another excerpt from the interview I just posted:
You can fast forward to 16:30 to hear this portion of the interview.
Note that he prefaces that with that he wished TNA would see what Steve Austin sees. He's loyal to TNA, but even here he expresses that TNA isn't using him the best way they could. And anyway, the point is that WWE would be better for him than TNA is, not whether or not he'd actually make the jump.
Joe could possibly bring in some new fans, and the thought of seeing a Joe/Punk match in WWE would send the IWC into a frenzy, but would WWE put him in a high profiled storyline? CM Punk just defended his WWE Championship at Wrestlemania. Chris Jericho is a well known name in professional wrestling, he has a lot more name value than Joe, and Joe doesn't have any true star power. In order to build a big time feud, WWE would have to put a lot of effort and time into Joe's character, and when it comes to Joe's age, time isn't on his side.
Joe isn't any older than most of the other guys in the WWE, so I don't see why you keep bringing that up. Would some work be required to fit him into the WWE Universe? Yes. But Joe doesn't need the polish work of a stint in development systems like FCW. Let him start out on Smackdown, ripping through the lower end workers. Once guys like Punk start to cool off, and once Joe has some momentum, throw them together.
And once again, the point isn't that Joe needs a ride on the very top to make a jump to the WWE a success. Even if he's only around a few years, his stock rises being there. After leaving, he can demand more from any future employer, including TNA.
Joe might be fool, if he declines an offer from WWE. After all, most football players dream of making it to the NFL, most basketball players dream of making it to the NBA, and most baseball players dream of making it to the MLB. And if you're a wrestler, your main goal is landing a spot on WWE's roster, because if you can make it WWE, you've made it to the big leagues. But Joe doesn't fit into that mold. He's not tempted by the bigger stage, the bigger paychecks, or the flashy production values. He's loyal to TNA, and finishing his career as a TNA wrestler is a very realistic possibility.
That's his choice to make. But we aren't here to argue what Joe would and wouldn't do; we're here to argue what Joe maybe should do, and whether that would be better or worse for him.
If we were talking about Kurt Angle or Sting in this situation, then I wouldn't have a problem with them joining TNA. Sting has built up a legendary reputation over the years, and Kurt Angle is one of the more high profiled veterans in pro wrestling, so they're not taking a big risk, if they make they jump. The have the cushion of their rich reputations to fall back on, but Joe doesn't have that same luxury.
But where did Angle form his legacy? In the WWE. Where did Sting? In WCW. Neither of these two "made it" by sticking with TNA; TNA is just where they've gone to die. TNA does not put people onto that level. WWE does. If anything, if Joe wants to be remembered and widely known and respected as one of the best of his generation, he needs to make the jump to the WWE.
SOURCES:
Austin pushes Joe on Twitter:
http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/194981
Joe on TNA booking:
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/TNA_News_1/article_57937.shtml
