Why Triple H Should Have Won At Wrestlemania 25

[PlayTheGame]

First off I'd like to say that I saw the show and was very disappointed in its overall quality. Nothing really stood out to me, save the HBK/Taker match. Now, onto what I want to discuss- the main event, HHH vs Orton for the WWE Championship. First off, it wasn't as a bad as most people are saying. Yes, the crowd was dead, but the match itself wasn't as bad as alot of people are saying it is. Main event-worthy at WM25 in theory? No. Main event-worthy in that crap heap that the WWE called WM25? I'd say so.

When HHH won (and he did NOT win cleanly despite what all of his naysayers might say) I knew some people would probably take issue with it, and that's fine. Everything he does/wins is criticized and put under the IWC microscope so it can be scrutinized and picked apart and labeled as him just getting what he wants "cuz he's Bangin' duh bosz's daughta". Whatever, I'm not getting into the invalidity of that statement, what I'm about to address is why HHH SHOULD have won at WM25. Let me go through a few reasons in no particular order:

1) Triple H is the face. Orton is the heel. It's Wrestlemania. This one is pretty self-explanatory. The face almost always wins at WM, especially when its a really personal feud (which it was), or when its a title match (which it was), or when its the main event (which it was). The face went over the heel. It's just always happened at WM (for the most part). Dont believe me? Ask Hogan. Or just watch the first 10 Wrestlemanias. Now, some might say "but HHH sucks at being the face". Whatever, thats just opinion. The fact is, he was the face, and the face went over.

2) Triple H was 5-7 at Wrestlemania. Yeah, that's right. So dont give me that utter BS that "Oh, Hunter just wanted another WM moment." Seriously, shut up. Now I know he has a storied past of "burying people" (and that's debatable and controversial anyway), but that's not the case at Wrestlemania. 2 of those 5 WM wins came in pretty worthless matches too in the beginning of his career. His only big win at WM came at WM18 when he beat Jericho for the WWE Undisputed Championship. He also beat Booker T for the WHW Title back at WM19, but that's definitely not even memorable. And neither of those two did he "bury". They recovered just fine. From WM20-22;24, HHH lost to Benoit, Michaels, Batista, Cena (twice), & Orton for the title, putting them all over in the process. Four WM's in the past few years he's lost or failed to win the championship, meaning that his last WM win came back at WM19 in 2003. He waited for 6 years to finally get a WM win. And he beat Orton of all people. He didn't "bury" him either. He didn't win cleanly, and Orton, being the company's top heel, will definitely recover. Use common sense people.

3) Orton went over HHH last year. He did (and Cena as well). Did anyone complain about Orton then? No. It was a pleasant surprise, as everyone counted him out. Well, this year HHH went over Orton. What's so wrong about that? Orton/HHH at Mania is now 1-1. Perfectly even. And, if anything, the WWE gave us a nice surpise with HHH winning, as everyone (especially the IWC) was predicting that Orton would win. Kudos, WWE.

4) The feud is not over anyway. Everyone's crying that Orton didn't win the title. Get over it- the feud's not even close to being over. In fact, I would put money on Orton getting the title in the near future. Just because HHH went over Orton at WM doesn't mean that Orton will never win the title from him, or that all of his credibility is destroyed (which seems to be what everyone thinks). Hell, that's what Backlash is for. It's probably better that HHH won so Orton will want another shot (and will get one), except the stakes will probably be higher this time and the environment more dangerous (HITC, anyone?). Just sit back and enjoy what the WWE will do with this hot feud.

HHH went over Orton at WM25 and had every right to. *Sigh* Let the HHH bashing begin.

 

[DD84]

I understand everything you said, it makes sense, but I don't agree. HHH virtually never lose to Orton one-on-one. Orton never beat HHH one-on-one for a World Title, except No Mercy when HHH fought 3 times that night. They also killed all momentum Orton had, it was a waste of time. Orton was robbed. This was supposed to be Orton's signature win, the win people remembered him for, like Batista over HHH at Mania 21 or Eddie over Brock at No Mercy. Now his signature win is still the Royal Rumble win, to me.

1) Triple H is the face. Orton is the heel. It's Wrestlemania. This one is pretty self-explanatory. The face almost always wins at WM, especially when its a really personal feud (which it was), or when its a title match (which it was), or when its the main event (which it was). The face went over the heel. It's just always happened at WM (for the most part). Dont believe me? Ask Hogan. Or just watch the first 10 Wrestlemanias. Now, some might say "but HHH sucks at being the face". Whatever, thats just opinion. The fact is, he was the face, and the face went over.

So, not every Mania that has to happen. Remember when Austin beat Rock at Mania 17, that was a great PPV.

3) Orton went over HHH last year. He did (and Cena as well). Did anyone complain about Orton then? No. It was a pleasant surprise, as everyone counted him out. Well, this year HHH went over Orton. What's so wrong about that? Orton/HHH at Mania is now 1-1. Perfectly even. And, if anything, the WWE gave us a nice surpise with HHH winning, as everyone (especially the IWC) was predicting that Orton would win. Kudos, WWE.

Yeah, but he really didn't beat HHH. He beat Cena. He pinned Cena, he didn't pin HHH. He technically beat HHH, but he didn't pin him.

 

[jellmoo]

HHH had to win purely because of the angle that they booked for these two. They could not have one of their top faces have his family beaten, his wife savaged and violated, his dignity stripped go out there and lose. It would have made for a terrible story, simply because they booked this as a good vs evil match. They made it impossible for Hunter to take a loss out there without the entire story being torn apart.

It has nothing to do with the passing of torches, or the right time for Orton to go over, or even HHH holding Orton down. The WWE went with an angle that completely pigeonholed them. As soon as Orton hit Steph with the RKO, one of 2 things would happen: Hunter goes over, or there is a MASSIVE screwjob.

Given that they don't seem to have wanted to play the screwjob card, the finish was the only one that made sense. HHH goes over on the guy that attacked his wife, but at the same time Orton took it to Trips to the point that a ref bump robbed him, and Hunter used a weapon. This in no way killed Orton's momentum.

Vince and company did the smart thing and booked the show for the casual fans and not the smarks.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I understand everything you said, it makes sense, but I don't agree. HHH virtually never lose to Orton one-on-one. Orton never beat HHH one-on-one for a World Title, except No Mercy when HHH fought 3 times that night. They also killed all momentum Orton had, it was a waste of time. Orton was robbed. This was supposed to be Orton's signature win, the win people remembered him for, like Batista over HHH at Mania 21 or Eddie over Brock at No Mercy. Now his signature win is still the Royal Rumble win, to me.



So, not every Mania that has to happen. Remember when Austin beat Rock at Mania 17, that was a great PPV.



Yeah, but he really didn't beat HHH. He beat Cena. He pinned Cena, he didn't pin HHH. He technically beat HHH, but he didn't pin him.

No no no no no. Orton has not lost his momentum. This is what I dont understand. How can you say that? He's the WWE's top heel. Period. He lost on the biggest pro-face stage of them all, Wrestlemania, a place in which he went over and beat both HHH & Cena last year. Orton's credibility, momentum, whatever you wanna call it was really not harmed by an UNCLEAN loss. Triple H hit him in the head with a sledgehammer. Everyone saw it. Orton comes out tonight, cuts a promo whining like a good heel would and points out how he lost unfairly, gets another title shot in the near future, and gets back to tearing it up on Raw on a weekly basis. Completely unharmed. Plus, contrary to popular thought, Orton didnt need this win. Batista was just actually becoming something by WM21 and HHH was the first big guy he really got over. As for the Eddie thing, I don't think he even deserved to go over Brock, so I won't comment on it. Orton is already a legitmized superstar. He wouldnt be the top heel already if he wasnt. Everyones talking about him as if he's a fledging rookie. He's a 7 year veteran. He's gone over the likes of Foley, Benoit (for a world title), Taker, HBK, and more. He's had quite a few signature wins already. This victory wasnt absolutely necessary- the feud isnt even close to being over anyway, which probably means Orton will go over EVENTUALLY. If anything, the wait would make it all the more sweeter.

Oh, and your example about Austin beating the Rock as WM17... Austin was hugely over at the time- he was getting cheers no matter what, he might as well have been the face. So, that's actually a pretty bad example.

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't have a problem with HHH beating Orton. That was never my problem.

The problem I have is HOW he beat Orton. It was completely and utterly emotionless from the crowd, and just slam dunked the fact that the Triple H/Orton storyline was terrible and uninteresting. People didn't care about that match. The problem is that the match sucked, and there was no build to a finish. It was just "wham" and 70,000 in the audience as well as millions watching around the world going..."Is....is that it? Is 'Mania really over?"

 

[PlayTheGame]

I don't have a problem with HHH beating Orton. That was never my problem.

The problem I have is HOW he beat Orton. It was completely and utterly emotionless from the crowd, and just slam dunked the fact that the Triple H/Orton storyline was terrible and uninteresting. People didn't care about that match. The problem is that the match sucked, and there was no build to a finish. It was just "wham" and 70,000 in the audience as well as millions watching around the world going..."Is....is that it? Is 'Mania really over?"

I agree with that in a way, as I never touted the match itself (or the build) to be anything that special. However, I wouldnt blame these two guys and the match they put on for all of it- the match layout and the overall quality of most of the matches/segments that night was pretty bad- especially for a Wrestlemania. But yeah, the finish was a bit lackluster in their match though.

 

[DD84]

No no no no no. Orton has not lost his momentum. This is what I dont understand. How can you say that? He's the WWE's top heel. Period. He lost on the biggest pro-face stage of them all, Wrestlemania, a place in which he went over and beat both HHH & Cena last year. Orton's credibility, momentum, whatever you wanna call it was really not harmed by an UNCLEAN loss. Triple H hit him in the head with a sledgehammer. Everyone saw it. Orton comes out tonight, cuts a promo whining like a good heel would and points out how he lost unfairly, gets another title shot in the near future, and gets back to tearing it up on Raw on a weekly basis. Completely unharmed. Plus, contrary to popular thought, Orton didnt need this win. Batista was just actually becoming something by WM21 and HHH was the first big guy he really got over. As for the Eddie thing, I don't think he even deserved to go over Brock, so I won't comment on it. Orton is already a legitmized superstar. He wouldnt be the top heel already if he wasnt. Everyones talking about him as if he's a fledging rookie. He's a 7 year veteran. He's gone over the likes of Foley, Benoit (for a world title), Taker, HBK, and more. He's had quite a few signature wins already. This victory wasnt absolutely necessary- the feud isnt even close to being over anyway, which probably means Orton will go over EVENTUALLY. If anything, the wait would make it all the more sweeter.

Oh, and your example about Austin beating the Rock as WM17... Austin was hugely over at the time- he was getting cheers no matter what, he might as well have been the face. So, that's actually a pretty bad example.

It killed his momentum because of how weak he looked like. He looked pathetic, it was awful. You can say whatever you want, HHH shouldn't have left champ. He has left as champ before at Mania, in fact for all the negatives I say about him, the thing that most impressed me about him is the fact he let guys beat him at Mania. It isn't like its someone who isn't proven, it is a star. He never, ever lets Orton beat him. Orton needed that win, it would have been his signature win, which every wrestler has. He has one, but this one could have been better, think about he destroys the McMahons so badly, they have to admit the truth that HHH is in the family, so he can fight him and still got beaten a Mania. And of course the feud isn't over, but shouldn't the feud end with the face on top, not the heel. That is probably why Jeff lost to Matt yesterday. And yes he has beaten those guys you mention but still has yet to beat HHH in a PPV one-on-one, when Hunter didn't fight more than once.

Also on Eddie, it isn't about whether he deserved it or not, it is his signature win, as Dave B. On Austin vs. Rock it was about a heel winning, like Orton did on WM24. Orton is really over with the crowd he would have gotten pop like Austin, not as much but still a good pop.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

1) Triple H is the face. Orton is the heel. It's Wrestlemania. This one is pretty self-explanatory. The face almost always wins at WM, especially when its a really personal feud (which it was), or when its a title match (which it was), or when its the main event (which it was). The face went over the heel. It's just always happened at WM (for the most part). Dont believe me? Ask Hogan. Or just watch the first 10 Wrestlemanias. Now, some might say "but HHH sucks at being the face". Whatever, thats just opinion. The fact is, he was the face, and the face went over.

I don't know about you but those "RKO" chants were pretty loud. I also didn't hear any reaction when Triple H won. Triple H may have been the intended Face but clearly Orton was just as popular that night.

2) Triple H was 5-7 at Wrestlemania. Yeah, that's right. So dont give me that utter BS that "Oh, Hunter just wanted another WM moment." Seriously, shut up. Now I know he has a storied past of "burying people" (and that's debatable and controversial anyway), but that's not the case at Wrestlemania. 2 of those 5 WM wins came in pretty worthless matches too in the beginning of his career. His only big win at WM came at WM18 when he beat Jericho for the WWE Undisputed Championship. He also beat Booker T for the WHW Title back at WM19, but that's definitely not even memorable. And neither of those two did he "bury". They recovered just fine. From WM20-22;24, HHH lost to Benoit, Michaels, Batista, Cena (twice), & Orton for the title, putting them all over in the process. Four WM's in the past few years he's lost or failed to win the championship, meaning that his last WM win came back at WM19 in 2003. He waited for 6 years to finally get a WM win. And he beat Orton of all people. He didn't "bury" him either. He didn't win cleanly, and Orton, being the company's top heel, will definitely recover. Use common sense people.

Unless you're Undertaker, Wrestlemania record is irrelevant. Look at HBK. I'm pretty sure HBK has lost more times than won at Wrestlemania yet do people think any less of him? No.

Also, Triple H may be 5-7 at WM but take a look at his Wrestlemania matches since year 2000. Where has he been on the card? That's right, Triple H has main evented (meaning been in a championship match) every Wrestlemania since year 2000 except two. One was at WM17 against Undertaker in a grudge match and the other was WM23, which he missed due to his quad injury (but he was supposed to main event that one also, Shawn was his fill-in).

So why does Triple H need to have a favorable record AND be in every Wrestlemania main event match? WM championship matches are the perfect opportunity to create stars. Triple H did a great job of that in the past, jump-starting Benoit and Batista's careers. So why couldn't he put over Orton as well? Triple H didn't need to go over Orton at WM25. He is already a 13 time champion and probably close to retirement. Orton is still in his prime and it would have been amazing for his career if he won the title at the 25th anniversary. This was the biggest match of Orton's career and he lost. Not only did he lose, he was dominated at the end. That made him look pathetic.

3) Orton went over HHH last year. He did (and Cena as well). Did anyone complain about Orton then? No. It was a pleasant surprise, as everyone counted him out. Well, this year HHH went over Orton. What's so wrong about that? Orton/HHH at Mania is now 1-1. Perfectly even. And, if anything, the WWE gave us a nice surpise with HHH winning, as everyone (especially the IWC) was predicting that Orton would win. Kudos, WWE.

Orton didn't go over Triple H, he went over Cena. And he only did so after stealing Triple H's pin, again making Triple H look like the dominant one out of the two. Triple H has NEVER, EVER put over Orton. No Mercy does not count by the way since Triple H only lost in his 3rd match, which was a heavily gimmicked match to begin with.

And Triple H winning was hardly a "nice surprise" since the crowd obviously didn't give a shit when he won.

4) The feud is not over anyway. Everyone's crying that Orton didn't win the title. Get over it- the feud's not even close to being over. In fact, I would put money on Orton getting the title in the near future. Just because HHH went over Orton at WM doesn't mean that Orton will never win the title from him, or that all of his credibility is destroyed (which seems to be what everyone thinks). Hell, that's what Backlash is for. It's probably better that HHH won so Orton will want another shot (and will get one), except the stakes will probably be higher this time and the environment more dangerous (HITC, anyone?). Just sit back and enjoy what the WWE will do with this hot feud.

See, this is exactly my point. If Orton does beat Triple H in some gimmick match, it's clear that Triple H will not put anyone over unless it's some heavily gimmicked match. Besides, I don't think I need to state the obvious that WM25 > Backlash. Winning at WM25 would have been amazing for Orton's career while it really didn't do anything for Triple H except feed his own ego.

I realize that the feud isn't over but it would have been so much better if the feud ended with this match, not started. The way Triple H won was rather conclusive. He dominated Orton at the end and made him look pathetic.

JR said something really interesting last night before the match started. "All 3 of Orton's reigns have been ended by Triple H". I think that speaks for itself.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I agree that Orton should get a big win over HHH... but it didnt HAVE to happen at Wrestlemania, nor really should it have. And again, I'll just cite all my reasons above as why, especially cuz the Mania match closed out the revenge storyline. With that in the past the feud can now hopefully get more 1 on 1, and maybe Orton will win at Backlash (or another event) and finally get that big win (and the title) over HHH, something that I don't mind happening in general.

 

[DD84]

I agree that Orton should get a big win over HHH... but it didnt HAVE to happen at Wrestlemania, nor really should it have. And again, I'll just cite all my reasons above as why, especially cuz the Mania match closed out the revenge storyline. With that in the past the feud can now hopefully get more 1 on 1, and maybe Orton will win at Backlash (or another event) and finally get that big win (and the title) over HHH, something that I don't mind happening in general.

It should be the other way around. Orton should be champ and make the McMahons feel worse and if HHH really wants to be the 16 by Flair he should have dropped it. Winning the world title at Backlash or at Judgment Day isn't winning at WrestleMania. Also it was bad in the sense, if Orton had won they would have brought out Legacy or Priceless to help him and help their status. Image if Orton won the belt with Priceless right next to him over HHH, it would have been great.

 

[DhA]

OK, you have decent reasons as to why HHH should have gone over (never midn the fact that a face winning is supposed to make the crowd happy, but they soudned like they didn't give a shit). What's your excuse for the King of Kings putting on a dire match?

 

[TwistofRKO]

There's no excuse for Triple H failing to put anyone over completely not named Batista. That's it, or all I've seen. The crowd looked disappointed, so that couldn't have been good.

We've seen Triple H reign for 9 out of the last 12 months.. he's been in the WWF/E for what, 14 years now? I realize that you work to be great to enjoy the spotlight, but that can only last so long. He's entertaining in the ring, but wow, not letting Orton go over him?

The finish did NOT make Orton look good. He RKO'd Trips, that made him look good. He then proceeded to crap himself by reaching for the sledgehammer.

Say what you want about Cena, Edge, Jericho, Hardy, whoever, they have all let someone else go over them. Look at the last two times Triple H lost the belt- The 3rd match of the night at '07 No Mercy- not putting Orton over...'08 Survivor Series he battled with Kozlov and get's speared by a newly inserted Edge. He couldn't drop it to Orton or Hardy to help their careers all the more?

I've always liked Triple H, and I still kind of do, but enough is enough. The ridiculousness has got to end at some point. Did he really have to get the upper hand on Cena, too? If you can't main event without a belt then you shouldn't be main eventing.

 

[DhA]

If you can't main event without a belt then you shouldn't be main eventing.

Well said. His match with Undertaker at X-7 was good, os obviously he CAN do it but the fact that he dosen't is annoying.

 

[OIL]

So, not every Mania that has to happen. Remember when Austin beat Rock at Mania 17, that was a great PPV.

They were both the faces. No clear heel there. Obviously the crowd were behind Austin, but it doesn't matter. Vince will always let the fans leave WrestleMania happy, by letting the face win. For this, HHH had to win. We all wanted Orton to win, but it wasn't going to happen. Even with HHH winning, just a better ending to the match would have done. It was an awful ending, and a terrible end to WrestleMania 25.

 

[Slowdude]

After calming down I can see how HHH winning was a good way to end Wrestlemania. The thing that went wrong was the ending was terrible. Espically when you here the ref yell at HHH while HHH was punching Orton "1 minute left hurry up". Basically 10 seconds later picked Orton up and pedigree'd him and it was over. There weren't any flase finishers or anything. Just pedigree and it was over. That was the most disappointing part

 

[Y 2 Jake]

1) Triple H is the face. Orton is the heel. It's Wrestlemania.

Cena is the face, Edge & Big Show are the heels. It's WrestleMania so the show should end on a high. That high being a title change.

2) Triple H was 5-7 at Wrestlemania.

A WrestleMania record is only important to one wrestler.

3) Orton went over HHH last year.

No. Orton went over Cena. HHH did all the work and Orton got the pin. Triple H also got his revenge three weeks later.

4) The feud is not over anyway.

Winning a title in a silly 6-Man Tag isn't the same as winning a title at WrestleMania.

I'm not saying Triple H should've won. I'm saying that Orton should have gone into the show as champion and lost. It didn't work as it was.

 

[GameOver]

I think the biggest issue was everyone had shot there load on the Taker vs hbk match. after that the crowd was pretty quiet. and the two title matches were both pretty pathetic on top which didn't help.

There's no excuse though for the snoringly slow match that Triple H and Orton wrestled. don't dump all the blame on Hunter Orton was in that match too and he rarely got out of a stroll too. Also the fact that noone else got involved. ie the McMahons/Legacy

they did a finisher each at the start of the match and then went to sleep for the next 15mins

As for last yr yeah it was the same thing. Orton basically did sweet F*all most of the match it was Cena and Triple H doing the bulk of the work and Orton came in to steal the finish. Only differences this yr was Cena wasn't involved and Triple H was slow aswell

Anyway for me i was so hyped up on HBK vs Taker and then it's like everything went silent and they did vignettes for the boring ass love triangle. no inbetween segway, not even a look at HBK leaving the ring????

and even though the Triple Threat World Title was a better match than the WWE title match it was still horrible, mostly cause Big Show is toooooo slow. It shoulda stayed Cena vs Edge that woulda worked.

Then we come to the WWE title match, once again no segway inbetween just Cena one yay Zzzz vignettes repeating what we've seen 1000's of times of the past few months.