Why is This...?

wwetv21

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i dont know if you guys see this or not. but when ever some one from wwe goes to tna, the superstar looks so boring and dosent really try to make highlights.

Rob Van Dam, he used to be so sick in wwe, his moves were incredible and you wouldnt see any body even try doing his moves beacause they cant, (justin gabreil has been doing so much of rvd's moves, he must of been a fan of dam's)

now in tna rvd looks like crap!!!!! he does only some moves that look cool. when ever i watch him in a tna ring, it looks like hes getting bored, and dosent try.

same with jeff hardy, jeff is still young, he used to be 1 of my favs but now even in immortal, he looks like he dosent need to try.

same with alot of ppl that jump shiped from wwe to tna.

my question is

do you see what i see, and what do you think causes it.
 
Yes, I've seen this before. But I believe the reason for this is because TNA just doesn't know how to use them properly. Instead of having them be in quality storylines or worth while feuds, they put them to doing mediocre shit that quite frankly, only TNA fans care about. Talent throughout TNA is always constantly being misused where they have them feud in pointless feuds or feuds that no one gives two shits about.

On the other hand, it could just be that the said superstars aren't really worth anything. For example, as much as some people beg otherwise, Jeff Hardy is a horrible wrestler. He sucks very much on the mic; he's let his body go; and worst of all, he sucks in the ring. It's funny hopw there are so many people that are always complimenting how good Jeff Hardy is in the ring because he does all sorts of *flashy high-flying* moves. Well, just because he can do that does not make him a good wrestler because all he is doing is advertising himself as a Spot Monkey.

Like I said, it's either of the two. It could either be because of how poorly TNA uses them, or it could be because they just suck. Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter as I really don't care about these guys anymore.
 
LOL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Both RVD and Jeff Hardy have both used well. RVD was TNA World Champion has barely lost any matches and has had some Really Good matches since he's been in TNA, I have no idea how he could have been used better. Jeff is currently the TNA World Champion and has has also put on some Very Good matches since he returned to TNA. I think that he's playing a pretty good heel and I think his promos since turning Heel are 100x better than his Face Promos. They have both been used pretty well by TNA.
 
With RVD and Jeff Hardy, the case can be made for age. Yes, I know, they aren't old by professional wrestling standards. I'm not trying to imply that. But they aren't kids in their 20's anymore. You get older, your body slows down, and it starts a lot earlier than professional wrestlers retire. You aren't going to see them do the high-agility moves that they used to; as bad as a missed spot is, getting half a rotation on a full rotation move looks even worse. Stuff like that makes you look old.

Guys that come over from the WWE have the benefit of being able to coast on star power. That's how TNA's going to use them; they aren't paying for the talent to bury them under Rob Terry. So long as they have that star cachet, they're going to be used that way. Performing dangerous moves always comes with the risk serious injury; why would you risk something like a cracked vertebrae or an MCL tear when you can fill what your role is with something else?

I'm not on the "TNA is currently going bankrupt" bandwagon (I don't think they're profitable, which is a very different statement), but I don't think any wrestler is crazy enough to think that if they were to miss a year due to injury, that TNA is absolutely-positively going to be as or more popular than they are now, and that their spot will still be guaranteed. Wrestling for the WWE, they're still going to be there in a year. There's a possibility TNA might not be.

People will undoubtedly read into this as thinking that I expect TNA to fail within a year. I don't. I think they'll be in the same place as they are right now, performing steadily but without a plan to increase viewership. But remember how quick the end came for WCW and ECW; even the wrestlers working for the companies were surprised at how suddenly it came. TNA simply isn't at the level where you can be assured of your job and your spot should you miss time, and hence, I can't hold it against any wrestlers for not pulling out the risks if they don't have to.
 
Both of these guys are doing awesome. They have both held the World title since hey cam to TNA, you can't do much better than that. I personally have liked both of they're work in TNA. RVD had a good thing with Tommy Dreamer and now he and Rhino are going at it. As for Jeff he's the World Champ now and the whole Immortal angle and he new 1995 Raven-esque gimmick is working great. You are just looking at they're old high spots on youtube but what yo forget is that they didn't do that stuff every night it was only once in awhile that they did a really huge spot which made them memorable. They are high flyers but that doesn't mean that every night they will fly off a ladder through three tables on to four guys.
 
I dont watch Tna much and ill honestly say im not the biggest of tna fans...but with the Two stars you have mentioned RVD and Jeff many factors rule into them not looking so good..one is age..there getting older now and cant do what they use to do anymore...two there body has taken so many bumps from the dare devils stunts that again they cant do alot of what they use to do...three there drug use...there stoners and know they can get away with in tna rather than wwe...now as far as other WWE to TNA stars i say this observation is wrong....Kurt Angle still puts on great matches....The Pope i feel is much better in TNA than WWE... Mr. Kennedy/Anderson still puts on good matches...I think its honestly RVD and Jeffs fault they put on shitty matches not TNA
 
It's simply a matter of perception. When they are in the WWE, they have the best hype and promotion company in the world behind them. You simply can't compare talking and performing in front of 15,000 fans with pyro exploding on live television to what goes on in the Impact Zone. It's extremely difficult to make anyone look like a world famous superstar in front of 800 people yelling smark chants.
 
Its simple, they look like they're half assing it because that's all they need to do. As long as you are a former WWE Superstar you'll get pushed to the moon in TNA. They dont need to try hard or look good because they know the dumbasses at TNA will give them main event level roles for being former WWE star. It's simple.
 
You got to look at it like this. Hardy and RVD are pushing past their prime in Wrestling. both of them are trying to climb up to where only afew have. Hogan and Flair's level. Only afew people can say they belong there like HBK, The Undertaker and Kevin Nash.

The problem is with Jeff is WWE let him go cause he was using drugs. WWE gave him time to get off them and to stay a big star in WWE. he FAILED so CM Punk was brought in to play the part of the firing of Jeff Hardy. We was suspended from WWE for a year which would be over now since it started when CM Punk won at Summerslam then beat Jeff that friday to be his last match in WWE for awhile. Honestly do you think Vince is gonna hire him back now if TNA lets him go YET again?

Look at Christian. he was TNA world champ. he came back to WWE and where is he now? lost in the midcard when he isn't injured.

The reason they don't look so good is that TNA does not know how to use most of their talent properly because half of the roster is WWE former stars. They are use to so much more. This is why guys like AJ, Kaz, Beer Money are so good compared. the company uses them properly.

RVD has never been the same since he left WWE. Yes TNA is more laxed in their house shows but they draw such a less of a crowd. The last time WWE was in Chicago they sold out the arena, last time TNA was in Chicago they covered some sections and made sure the cameras didn't look at the closed off sections.

Kurt Angle had to come up with his idea of being the best cause he did not want the title just handed to him, so Vince Russo wrote it where Kurt was going to wrestle the top 10 and in the end, he didn't even get to do that. TNA dropped the ball on that big time.

TNA rather put over a no talent like Tommy Dreamer then work harder on RVD and Jeff Hardy. I personally think Hardy is overrated, I always have but he is not bad as a heel and if they just got rid of dreamer they could do so much more.
 
You got to look at it like this. Hardy and RVD are pushing past their prime in Wrestling. both of them are trying to climb up to where only afew have. Hogan and Flair's level. Only afew people can say they belong there like HBK, The Undertaker and Kevin Nash.

The problem is with Jeff is WWE let him go cause he was using drugs. WWE gave him time to get off them and to stay a big star in WWE. he FAILED so CM Punk was brought in to play the part of the firing of Jeff Hardy. We was suspended from WWE for a year which would be over now since it started when CM Punk won at Summerslam then beat Jeff that friday to be his last match in WWE for awhile. Honestly do you think Vince is gonna hire him back now if TNA lets him go YET again?

Look at Christian. he was TNA world champ. he came back to WWE and where is he now? lost in the midcard when he isn't injured.

The reason they don't look so good is that TNA does not know how to use most of their talent properly because half of the roster is WWE former stars. They are use to so much more. This is why guys like AJ, Kaz, Beer Money are so good compared. the company uses them properly.

RVD has never been the same since he left WWE. Yes TNA is more laxed in their house shows but they draw such a less of a crowd. The last time WWE was in Chicago they sold out the arena, last time TNA was in Chicago they covered some sections and made sure the cameras didn't look at the closed off sections.

Kurt Angle had to come up with his idea of being the best cause he did not want the title just handed to him, so Vince Russo wrote it where Kurt was going to wrestle the top 10 and in the end, he didn't even get to do that. TNA dropped the ball on that big time.

TNA rather put over a no talent like Tommy Dreamer then work harder on RVD and Jeff Hardy. I personally think Hardy is overrated, I always have but he is not bad as a heel and if they just got rid of dreamer they could do so much more.
Christians only been injured 1 time in his long career so bad example. But the wrestlers go to TNA and slack off big time. They did the brutal WWE schedule for so long that they stop caring once they go to TNA and obviously that's what shows on TNA programming. It also doesn't help that TNA has worse writers than even WWE, and TNA doesn't have any major names worth anything. Their biggest names in sting and angle, maybe even Anderson, and Hardy all came from other companies.
 
its because these guys are past there prime and arnt as big of a draw anymore. I mean come on who isnt tired of Jeff hardy interfering on his opponents match on every impact causing a MEANINGLESS DQ? He doesnt even wrestle on IMPACT Anymore and sorry im off topic I know this bloq is about RVD and my answer to that is hes overrated hes got older and his mic skill sucks. you cant take him serious when hes pissed off. I dont even remember the last time he even his the 5 star frog splash.

one more thing i have a problem with TNA and i am a TNA fan and not trying to bash here. my problem is with Eric B.. he makes wrestling so lame, boring and predictable who doesnt see Jeff hardy beating Morgan again uncleanly? and at the next PPV its going to be HArdy VS RVD because on impact RVD wanted a shot. he did the same thing when he was GM of raw it was so freaking boring TNA please get rid of ERic B. If i was in charge i would have Morgan Beat Hardy and causing every member of fourtune to compete against and keep the FUED ALIVE morgan come on ITS MORGANS TIME ALREADY LET HIM BEAT HARDY and become the champ! HARDY made punk a STAR as he said by defeating HIM so now Let MORGAN defeat HARDY at the PPV
 
i agrre mega star. and now that hogan and e are he the x- division has sucked, that was one of the great thing that wwe could never have.
 
Jeff Hardy and RVD sux! Jeff hardy is very boring on the mic, and cant wrestle, has no muscle. Rvd is more entertaining, and more athletic, but still is not better than a mid carder. I love complete entertainers like hbk, and Ric Flair.
 
Rvd is more entertaining, and more athletic, but still is not better than a mid carder. I love complete entertainers like hbk, and Ric Flair.

Dude have u even seen rvd in wwe? rvd WAS and IS better than more than half the roster in wwe and tna. if you think people like justin gabreil are sick, or john morrison, and john cena are better than rvd, you must have been watchin wrestlin for only 5 years.
 
The reason it seems like that is because their moves were done in front of 7-10 thousand people instead of 1500 people. When you have 7,000 people scream and yell for a a 5 star frog splash it seems more impact full and better then the 1500 or so in the Impact Zone. Also if you want to talk about someone being more entertaining than you need to look at guys like


Christian
The Pope
Matt Morgan


These guys have turned themselves into big time players in TNA. It just sucks Christian can't catch a break in WWE.
 
I think there are several reasons why the impressions of the OP may have some validity to them.

For one thing, the production values of iMPACT are so astronomically below that of WWE, that by default the product being shown has to look more lacklustre. When someone like Jeff Hardy is performing in the WWE, he has the money, the production value, the machine behind him to augment his arsenal and make him look even better. When he performs in the iMPACT zone, it looks like it's been recorded by a fan holding a camcorder. Backstage segments, even more so. By default, he ends up looking worse, even if he truly isn't.

Also, when some of these guys were in the WWE, the WWE made them big stars. Sure, they deserve some of the credit themselves, but the WWE made guys like Jeff Hardy the stars that they are today. People end up with very elevated expectations of what these guys can truly bring to the table. And when taken out of the WWE world and left to prove their worth on their own merits, not all of them are able to do it. They are simply unable to live up to the high standards that their time in the WWE has produced.

I would imagine some of the lacklustre results come from the stars themselves. Let's face it, the vast majority of guys who leave WWE and go to TNA do not do so by choice. Sure, there are a few exceptions, such as Kurt Angle or Jeff Hardy, but for the most part, the former WWE guys are there because they've been future endeavoured against their wishes. All TNA markdom aside, it has to feel like a demotion, going from the grandest stage of them all, to the iMPACT zone in Orlando. It's like a guy who gets released by his team in the NFL, ending up in the CFL and being expected to perform at the same level with the same enthusiasm as they used to have; it's probably not going to happen. Think about it, if you take a wrestler who was a superstar in WWE, demote him to TNA against his true wishes, and have him perform in a less enthusiastic manner, with the same expectations but lower production values, and I think it's pretty clear what you are going to get for the most part. A lacklustre result.
 
Along with the great points of age and atmosphere, I think it's also just boredom. Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam have been to the top of the mountain, and they're in that odd stage between youthful exuberance and the old age 2nd wind. Hardy and RVD are both former WWE champions, they've been the pinnacle of the top company, and now they're stuck in mediocre feuds that offer them nothing. With guys like Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan, I think they both need the paycheck, and still feel like they can go and have the energy within them.

The odd stage I've seen some superstars go through. When The Undertaker finished with the Ministry and before he came back as a biker, he was mentoring the Big Show but he looked so bored at times. He was fighting injuries and they had literally nothing for him to do except win the Tag Team Titles. Shawn Michaels kinda skipped that section of his career when he took off after WM 14 and came back after WM 19. He got to rest and avoid the burnout, which allowed to be at peace without being on top. I think HHH is going through now, which is why he's not rushing to come back.

I think the lax schedule of TNA combined with the lack of atmosphere doesn't help the complacency that sets in. There's no workout schedule, no handlers, no real pressure to stay in shape, no motivation to work harder to get the fans behind you or learn new moves or work on new storylines. I think Team 3D broke up because of it, and why Angle, Sting and Nash aren't hot to come back, and why Mr. Anderson may not be back until 2011. No way they'd be on hiatus in the WWE except for serious injuries.
 
I think there are several reasons why the impressions of the OP may have some validity to them... if you take a wrestler who was a superstar in WWE, demote him to TNA against his true wishes, and have him perform in a less enthusiastic manner, with the same expectations but lower production values, and I think it's pretty clear what you are going to get for the most part. A lacklustre result.

An excellent assessment of the situation. Going from WWE to TNA, the only time you'll look better is if you drastically lift your game, to the point where it makes up for the lesser production values and drastically smaller crowd. As you said, when you've gone from the big league to the minors, it's more likely to be the other way around.

Obviously the odd guy has come in and thrived from the outset; Anderson is clearly loving the fact that he can finally cut promos without heavy restrictions, and is better than ever. Angle is clearly a happier, more motivated worker without the massive burden of WWE's grueling road schedule and unspoken size/weight expectations. But these guys are the exception to the rule.

FWIW, I think RVD looks about as good as he did towards the end of his WWE run. He has had to slow down; if he'd tried to keep wrestling like he did in his ECW TV title matches he'd be a cripple by now. He really needs to improve his ring psychology at this point in his career, as he cant "go" like he used to and for his matches to still be as interesting, they need to tell a story. But this isn't a new problem; he was slowing down by the time he left the WWE and it hasnt gotten drastically worse in TNA.

my problem is with Eric B.. he makes wrestling so lame, boring and predictable who doesnt see Jeff hardy beating Morgan again uncleanly? and at the next PPV its going to be HArdy VS RVD because on impact RVD wanted a shot. he did the same thing when he was GM of raw it was so freaking boring TNA please get rid of ERic B.

Wait a minute, you do realise that Bischoffs GM persona on Raw was only a character, and that the actual Eric Bischoff had no power to make any decisions whatsoever, right?

I mean, fair enough if you dont like Bischoff, but surely its a bit rich to blame him for "predictable decisions" that his character was scripted to make, and which he himself had nothing to do with?
 
From what ive seen and heard about tna they have some familarities with wcw but those similarities are the bad ones. The main example is poor management. Storylines are created but they are badly managed and the wrestlers usually make their own script up eg pope. Also they are way more easygoing. Now for jeff hardy and rvd , being 'valuable' assests to tna they don't have as tough restrictions on taking drugs and since magement is laid back , RVD and hardy i imagine probably do not feel the need to perform as good as they did in wwe because they can smoke plenty of pot and have a good time and still get paid or they work their asses off for the best match they can achieve in front of 500 people and still get paid the same amount , guess which one they pick
 
From what ive seen and heard about tna they have some familarities with wcw but those similarities are the bad ones. The main example is poor management. Storylines are created but they are badly managed and the wrestlers usually make their own script up eg pope...

No offense, but you don't seem to be very well versed on wrestling as an industry. It has only been in the last five to ten years that the WWE have increasingly started rigidly scripting promos. Up until then, wrestlers were usually sent out to do a promo with a general guideline of what to say, and a time limit, but other than that they were allowed to put everything in their own words. Nowadays, only the established guys are allowed to do that, and even they have to stick much more closely to the "script" than they used to. Most of the roster have to follow an exact script, line-for-line.

The result is a more sterile product; most of the wrestlers nowdays sound like the same character (which is enivitable when their promos are written by the same people). In fact, if they'd had todays system in place for the last 30 years, there would be no Pipers, or Rocks, or Austins, or Flairs. Mic skills of that calibre develop organically when workers are allowed time and space to develop their characters. You dont script those kinds of promos.

I criticise TNA for alot of things, but unscripted promos is one area where they have my full support.
 
It's simply a matter of perception. When they are in the WWE, they have the best hype and promotion company in the world behind them. You simply can't compare talking and performing in front of 15,000 fans with pyro exploding on live television to what goes on in the Impact Zone. It's extremely difficult to make anyone look like a world famous superstar in front of 800 people yelling smark chants.

I think this is right. The stage they are performing on can have an effect. Look at Booker T. Almost immediately after joining TNA he became "just one of the crowd" and looked mediocre, while in WWE he looked like a star. TNA had no idea how to book him to make him look something special. It takes an incredibly talented wrestler to look good without the support of the writers. By making Booker a background member of the MEM, he lost alot of the aura of being a former world champion and just became another guy. Kurt Angle is an example of how talent and good booking can keep you can a star in TNA. He looks just as big a name as he did in the WWE, but not many other guys achieve this, Christian Cage is another example of how it can work

RVD has got lazy, simple as. He is older, richer and works a lighter schedule in front of a smaller number of fans so he doesnt go out and destroy his body as he used to, he is booked as a big star anyway. Jeff has got fat and lazy, but I think his role now in Immortal will keep him working hard again and will raise his star once again.

So there are several reasons why ex WWE stars look nothing special in TNA. It can be be a combination of perception, lazyness, age and bad booking
 
With reference to RVD, I've got absolutely no idea what your talking about. RVD is perhaps the most amazingly athletic 40 year old wrester I have ever seen. I'm sorry but the next time I see a guy do a split legged moonsault, I'll change my mind. If it weren't for the fact that RVD cannot help but sound stoned and so it's is very difficult for him to cut a believable and serious promo I would think he almost deserved that spur-of-the-moment title reign over AJ, but that would be going too far.

In jeff hardy's case, well his character permitts that he appear very lacsidasical about everything because it serves little or no interest to himself. If jeffy hardy was then suddenyl avid about everything like a ric flair style character it wouldn't fit him. That is his current in and out-ring style. But if you can watch his match with kurt angle and still say keep the same opinion then there is something else swaying your ideas of what is going on.

In fact if anything jeff hardy has upped his game. He is having to deal with a real heel gimmick for the first time in his career and is doing well with it. In WWE he didn't have to do anything except ths ame old moves and get cheered. It is far harder to be appreciated in TNA because people always compare everything you do to WWE and the atmosphere is completely different. When you have 20,000 fans screaming at you and a huge arena, it always looks better than 2,000 but that doesn't make it the case. In TNA you have to create your own character development because you write more of your own stuff and that is more difficult than reading a script and memorising the lines, the only thing easier about being in TNA is the schedule, aside from that you have to work twice as hard where every night there are people coming out specifically to bash you and your company. WWE every so often put on a good match over 10 minutes long and it gets critical-acclaim because of the rarity, people EXPECT there to be an amazing TNA main event and where there isn't one its, "TNA dropped the ball big time there, they lost another fan tonight". People are so used to WWE's style of programming that they are like a child in a room with their mother, they are afraid to venture out and do things without refering to her first. WWE is rigid and like a bedtime story, the fact that you know what is coming next relaxes people's mind because everything that will happen is set in stone. TNA is fluid, the layout of matches every night i different, the main reason people criticize TNA's matches is because you actualy watched them... unlike the bland, stagnant "encounters" between two superstars who have met a million times before and you know the match format before the match has started. People actually want to watch a match with rey mysterio when they know he's going to try for the 619 three times, fail the first two times and succeed the last time. In TNA you can't call a match before it has begun and this makes people uncomfortable because everything about TNA is fluid, it can change from impact to impact, you never know whats coming next and good or bad that is something to look forward to.

All the above in underlined italice is a separate TNA v WWE rant, sorry.

Personally I never thought jeff hardy was good enough for the big time. Jeff hardy is lucky enough to have a huge fan following for jumping off high things. But he's never wrestled a good match in his life, or if he has I failed to watch that night, notice I used the word wrestled. So it was easy for WWE to take that at face value and promote him to a big star knowing the fact that people liked him was enough for him to merit being there. Jeff hardy has never put out a good promo, and worse still he injured a man with actual potential recently in Anderson, a man who is really going somewhere and could elevate TNA under the correct circumstances. Jeff Hardy is now getting good reaction for his work under his current gimmick but that is only because it is light years better than the pile of shit he has injected into us for years (and himself). Even in TNA he wrestles like a WWE star, all of his match are a combination of his signiture and finishing moves, he can do nothing else except weak looking punches. To say jeff hardy has lowered himself in TNA is rediculous because he wouldn't look good wherever he was. Hell he couldn't even succeed at a best fucked up shoot video because his was so half-assed. So jeff hardy is mute point, don't mistake big fan favorite for good wrestler, otherwise goldberg would have been one of the all-time greats.

On the whole though, most other people have done great from going to TNA. Mickie james is stepping up her in-ring work now and being used week after week where the only quarrell is the quality of the storyline linking her and tara together. Tara herself has been golden since being in TNA, probably better than in WWE and she isn't even in her prime now. Anderson is leaps and yards better than he was in TNA, partly because he is allowed to converse with the crowd making his character more relatable to people. He is a bit of a modern day austin standing up for what everyone believes to be true. And people like him more for it because anderson is supposed to be a heel, it suits him better, and thyats why being a face works right now. Because anderson would normally be heel, but it makes it look like immortal and fortune are so heel tghan anderson is being forced to represent anyone. They have a beautiful accident in the way anderson's character worked out for them.

Orlando Jordan doesn't do much but he arguably is better than he was in WWE also. I think I'm going to sk8ip the formalities right here and say that you could make a case for every guy that jumped ship from WWE being better in TNA, and if you read my rant in the middle, don't fool yourself into thinking they were better in WWE because of the big flashing lights dazzling you and making you lose your sense of intermediary conclusion drawing. Make sure that the actual man, not story or anything else, the wrestling in the ring and the quality of promos that he does are actually not as good now as before and then you can start to talk reasonably.
 

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