Why hate Roman for his push?

[d_henderson1810]

I have never got the mentality of wrestling fans when it comes to a guy getting pushed, and them hating on them.

Why boo John Cena, why boo Roman? Did either of them actively campaign to be the top guy?

Yet people like "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels are loved, when they did everything to put themselves over, refused to lose to certain opponents and actively "buried people" onscreen and off.

Yet for all the hate Cena got for twelve years, and all the things he was accused of, one charge even the most vehement Cena haters never made was that he put himself up as being the top guy, or that he actually suggested burying Miz and others.

All Cena or Roman did was take an opportunity presented to them. What are they supposed to do, say "Thanks Vince, for wanting to me be the top guy, the figurehead, offering me the chance to have numerous title reigns, and headlining multiple Wrestlemanias, but I don't feel I deserve it. So the answer's "No" ". Tell me if anyone was offered the "top spot" that they would turn it down. Who was offered that, and refused, preferring a mid-card or lower card role instead. No-one, and none of you would refuse it either.

So why boo them or hate on them. I know you say that you boo Roman, it isn't him you are booing, but Vince for pushing him as the guy (AKA the guy YOU don't like (you probably want some indy skinny-armed shortass from ROH as WWE Champion instead). The problem with this defense is then why do some people say that they want Roman to get injured, retire or die? That isn't directing hatred towards Vince, but a guy simply exercising an opportunity that any of you would want, or that you want for your short, scrawny,indy faves to have.

You are hypocrites for booing Cena and Roman, when they are just playing a part GIVEN to them, yet respect Austin, Nash, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Undertaker, Brock etc, who have done everything to actively make themselves stars, by stopping others from becoming stars in the process, and demanding certain finishes to matches, or that they are made to look good. Cena or Roman, from my understanding, haven't ever sought to do that.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

That's the sad thing about today's smart fans, they think they are kings and the wwe should revolve around what they think. The problem with that thinking is that they thinks as wrestling fans, not business guys like Vince and HHH.

Cena and reigns got push because of how much money they made for the company, not because of their popularity. But try telling that to those who boo them. For them, the business stuff goes way over their head and think that wwe would be more successful if the guy they like was on top instead of reigns because they think as wrestling fans and not business man.

The other problem is the wrestling media, smart fans believe everything reported on the internet. If guys like Meltzer write a opinion about how WWE should booked reigns, they will believe it line hook and sinker and will continue to push the narrative because smart fans are the most maniable wrestling fans in the world. Most of them are puppet that are going to believe whatever the wrestling media tell them and then react the way they want them to.

If guys like flair, Hogan, warrior, taker or Nash should have started in today's environment instead of their era's, none of them would be the legends they are today because all of them would be booed out of the building by smart fans for being guys that the company got behind. That's the problem with fans theses days, they think they know more that the guys that worked in the business for years and the wrestling media is feeding on that. The fact that nothing is secret anymore doesn't help matter and that's why a guy like reigns, who would have been a megastar in another era, is falling with those fans today.

In the end, I'm sure that you will get all the same excuses about reigns and cena on this subject that we always get but we need as fans to understand that wwe isn't a wrestling company and never was, it's a business and that's why reigns is in this position and that's why cena got that spot before him, because they are making money for them. The minute somebody bring in more money then reigns for the company, wwe will stop pushing reigns and push that guy in his place.

 

[Mantis]

Why pretend to not know why he's booed? Are you new to the internet?

I personally don't hate him, but I'm sure you've seen all the reasons:

-He kept the Shield gimmick, which is seen by some as lazy and uncreative.
-Skipped the midcard title scene and jumped straight to the main event (unlike most top stars)
-Uses a spear, an overused finisher.
-His Superman punch gesture is easy to make fun of for obvious reasons
-While on the subject of the Superman punch, he sometimes does it 5 or more times, which people say causes the move to lose its impact
-Still has the "can't wrestle" label slapped on him even though he's pretty solid now.
-He can come across as smug in interviews/appearances outside of WWE TV
-Still not a great promo, although at least they're not trying to make him funny or corny like Rock/Cena anymore

Most of those reasons don't even have anything to do with his push. I don't even think he's been pushed as hard as many claim. Sure he's always main eventing Wrestlemania, but they never gave him the definitive long title reign that other top guys have gotten. His title reigns have been relatively short and forgettable and he hasn't held a top title since his suspension two years ago.

I do think he's fully earned his spot now as a featured star, but it's pretty hard to argue that his initial push wasn't obviously contrived. Guys like Austin, HBK, and The Rock (eventually) got over organically. Even Cena got cheered as he ascended to the main event picture. Roman was still pretty green when he got the go ahead for WM31, and getting "approval" from guys like Rock and Daniel Bryan along the way made it feel even more forced.

People are stubborn and will continue to boo him no matter what, and that doesn't bother me. I find wrestling more enjoyable by simply watching what I like, skipping what I don't like, and not worrying about getting the mentality of people who have different opinions.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

People hated Shawn Michaels and it showed in the ratings slump. People hated Stone Cold Steve Austin and boycotted the program because it was no longer family friendly. It does no good to pretend the list of names you gave didn't have their detractors. Roman Reigns and John Cena are not special cases here. Fans are going to boo things they do not like. Whether or not you agree with it is your prerogative, but don't go on a rant assuming others mentioned here were accepted by the entire fandom.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I feel much of the antagonism towards Reigns is really misplaced frustration towards Vince McMahon. Reigns is only pushed because Vince McMahon wants it, he only feuds with whomever Vince McMahon chooses, his matches end the way Vince McMahon decides, etc.. Basically, when it's anything concerning Roman Reigns and his role within WWE, it always comes down to being Vince McMahon's decision. However, since Roman Reigns is the one that people see each week out there doing his thing and, as a result, he's the one who winds up taking all the pent up hell and frustration many fans feel.

A good deal of the hate Reigns gets isn't justified, in my opinion, but, also in my opinion, that doesn't mean that he's cut out for the role Vince McMahon has been trying to desperately hard to have him fill for the better part of 4 years. When you get right down to it, Vince has really made things far more difficult for Reigns than they had to be by not only pushing him before he was genuinely ready for the spot but by continuously doubling down on his position time after time when it was obvious that many a fan simply wasn't buying into what he was trying to sell with Roman.

At first, Vince tries to make Roman the witty, charismatic, heroic babyface and it fell flatter that a New Day pancake, yet Vince would keep trying and trying despite the lukewarm reception. He had Reigns out there trying to be all cutesy like John Cena was back through much of the 2000s and even went so far as personally writing Reigns' promos for him, which included taking catchphrases from Looney Toons characters.

Then, he decides to switch it up and have Reigns as sort of this alpha male babyface who dominates but fans are already long since frustrated by this time due to Vince continuing to double down on what he wants and Reigns just not adapting to the role.

So now, Vince has tried to have Reigns play the guy that's been screwed over by the system with him chasing after Lesnar, using the botch to their match ending at the Greatest Royal Rumble, in the hopes that fans will have sympathy for him. This is the most idiotic of his attempts because no one is going to remotely suspend disbelief for a moment to accept Roman Reigns as someone that the "system" is trying to screw over; I mean...c'mon...Roman Reigns is EXACTLY the type of star that Vince McMahon designed his "system" and set it up for. MAYBE something like this would work if he hadn't spent the last 4 years trying to force Reigns onto fans by creating moment after moment for him at big event after big event.

Again, Reigns is ultimately only doing his best with what he's been given. You have to remember that ultimately nothing Reigns does or says on our TV screens, laptops, phones, tablets or however we watch WWE programming happens without Vince McMahon's approval. Instead of even trying to do something with Reigns that feels the least bit organic, Vince McMahon has a very specific image and ideal in mind for Reigns and he simply will not give up on creating this ultimate, alpha male babyface that he wants Reigns to be no matter how many times he's going to continue failing. Vince constantly creates one shitstorm after another for Reigns and Reigns is the one who catches every single turd right smack in the face.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Why pretend to not know why he's booed? Are you new to the internet?

I personally don't hate him, but I'm sure you've seen all the reasons:

-He kept the Shield gimmick, which is seen by some as lazy and uncreative.
-Skipped the midcard title scene and jumped straight to the main event (unlike most top stars)
-Uses a spear, an overused finisher.
-His Superman punch gesture is easy to make fun of for obvious reasons
-While on the subject of the Superman punch, he sometimes does it 5 or more times, which people say causes the move to lose its impact
-Still has the "can't wrestle" label slapped on him even though he's pretty solid now.
-He can come across as smug in interviews/appearances outside of WWE TV
-Still not a great promo, although at least they're not trying to make him funny or corny like Rock/Cena anymore

Most of those reasons don't even have anything to do with his push. I don't even think he's been pushed as hard as many claim. Sure he's always main eventing Wrestlemania, but they never gave him the definitive long title reign that other top guys have gotten. His title reigns have been relatively short and forgettable and he hasn't held a top title since his suspension two years ago.

I do think he's fully earned his spot now as a featured star, but it's pretty hard to argue that his initial push wasn't obviously contrived. Guys like Austin, HBK, and The Rock (eventually) got over organically. Even Cena got cheered as he ascended to the main event picture. Roman was still pretty green when he got the go ahead for WM31, and getting "approval" from guys like Rock and Daniel Bryan along the way made it feel even more forced.

People are stubborn and will continue to boo him no matter what, and that doesn't bother me. I find wrestling more enjoyable by simply watching what I like, skipping what I don't like, and not worrying about getting the mentality of people who have different opinions.

-I doubt if Roman came out wearing a pink t-shirt, or different colors, that he would be any more popular. Seth Rollins used to wear dark colors until a couple of years ago.

-I'm sure that Roman has been U.S. Champion or IC Champion at one stage. Besides, he wouldn't be the first to get pushed that way.

Shinsuke Nakamura got a WWE Title shot two months into being on the main roster, before he had even been in the midcard. Didn't stop his popularity.

-His Superman punch loses impact. But 90% of moves lose their impacts on PPVs when the opponent keeps kicking out of the finisher multiple times in matches.

Yet when someone kicks out of a Stunner, a Tombstone or a Pedigree, people think it is a classic match, and makes the person taking it look strong.

-He does the spear, an overused finisher. But you didn't mind when Edge used it, or Goldberg, or the number of other people who use it.

I bet if someone from NXT, ROH or Japan used the spear, you'd cream your pants and wouldn't think it is overused. But because a guy who has bigger muscles than you does it, you bag it.

-Getting over organically is bullshit. You cheered Austin because you saw yourselves in him. You cheer Daniel Bryan because you relate to him. You're not cheering them as much as cheering yourselves, because people on here delude themselves that they are more important than the wrestlers, Vince McMahon and everyone else involved in WWE. You so-called fans cheer those who appeal to your narcissistic tendencies.

You boo Roman for the same reason you boo Cena. Because they are Vince's choice. You don't want to give Vince any credit or acknowledge that he knows what he is doing. Because you could all do it so much better, couldn't you? Your arrogance and absolute sense of self-importance is breathtaking, and WWE is better off without fans like you and others, and instead have people who actually love the product and enjoy it, not bitch about it all the time.

If Daniel Bryan got the Roman push, you would turn on him too, because he isn't being held down, or got over because of the fans, but because Vince would have chosen him.

You won't cheer Roman because that would be admitting that maybe Vince McMahon knows what he is doing, and so then you can't comfort your insecurity by thinking you know better than him.

 

[ShinChan]

-I doubt if Roman came out wearing a pink t-shirt, or different colors, that he would be any more popular. Seth Rollins used to wear dark colors until a couple of years ago.

Except that it's not the colour thing. How about the same exact entrance theme? Or even exact way coming out of the crowd?

-I'm sure that Roman has been U.S. Champion or IC Champion at one stage.

Yes. Sure. After already being a 3 time World Champion. And he lost the World Championship after the suspension. And then he was already in a United States Championship feud by the time Summerslam came.

Besides, he wouldn't be the first to get pushed that way.

If someone was pushed the wrong way earlier, it doesn't justify the next pushes the same wrong way. One wrong doesn't make another wrong right.

Shinsuke Nakamura got a WWE Title shot two months into being on the main roster, before he had even been in the midcard. Didn't stop his popularity.

Except that he was feuding with Dolph Ziggler & Baron Corbin after he was called up to the main roster. That is mid card. I guess.

-His Superman punch loses impact. But 90% of moves lose their impacts on PPVs when the opponent keeps kicking out of the finisher multiple times in matches.

It loses impact when he uses it constantly multiple times in a single match. His superman punch has almost become what German Suplex is for Brock Lesnar.

Yet when someone kicks out of a Stunner, a Tombstone or a Pedigree, people think it is a classic match, and makes the person taking it look strong.

These are finishers. And no one calls a match a great or classic because of a finisher kick out.

-He does the spear, an overused finisher. But you didn't mind when Edge used it, or Goldberg, or the number of other people who use it.

Except the fact that it wasn't as used as it's when Goldberg or Edge used it.

I bet if someone from NXT, ROH or Japan used the spear, you'd cream your pants and wouldn't think it is overused.

Except the overuse of super kicks by Young Bucks is quite criticised. They are in ROH and Japan, right?

But because a guy who has bigger muscles than you does it, you bag it.

How do you know the physique of the one who's just posting his views?

-Getting over organically is bullshit.

Nope.

You cheered Austin because you saw yourselves in him.

How do you know why that guy cheered Austin? Or even if he cheered him or not?

You cheer Daniel Bryan because you relate to him.

Or maybe WWE told a story good enough to make me invest into a wrestler like Daniel Bryan? By the way, again, how do you know that he cheered Bryan? And why?

You're not cheering them as much as cheering yourselves, because people on here delude themselves that they are more important than the wrestlers, Vince McMahon and everyone else involved in WWE.

How do you know so? You & Me haven't even met 1% of this huge world. How can you say so?

You so-called fans cheer those who appeal to your narcissistic tendencies.

Or maybe we cheer because we are given reasons to?

You boo Roman for the same reason you boo Cena.

Roman Reigns' character hasn't gotten that stale yet. Heck, I don't know what his character is supposed to be.

Because they are Vince's choice.

As if the others getting pushed aren't his choices? Braun Strowman is well received. Vince likes him, no?

You don't want to give Vince any credit or acknowledge that he knows what he is doing. Because you could all do it so much better, couldn't you?

Vince is well credited for many things. Roman Reigns' one is in a negative way.

Your arrogance and absolute sense of self-importance is breathtaking, and WWE is better off without fans like you and others, and instead have people who actually love the product and enjoy it, not bitch about it all the time.

Except the fact that you don't know every fan. And are basing it off your superiority complex.

If Daniel Bryan got the Roman push, you would turn on him too, because he isn't being held down, or got over because of the fans, but because Vince would have chosen him.

Did Vince just choose two guys over so many years? Or did others get well received as well? When Bryan won at Wrestlemania 30, did Vince not say yes for it? He did, right?

You won't cheer Roman because that would be admitting that maybe Vince McMahon knows what he is doing, and so then you can't comfort your insecurity by thinking you know better than him.

I'll tell you why I won't cheer him. Because I have no reason to. Merchandise sales won't make me cheer him. His performance will. His actions will. Why should I cheer a guy who is a World Champion and is then suspended for a month? Why should I cheer a guy who has been defeated and instead of accepting it, he has been complaining about it? Why should I cheer a person who behaves like a villain? Daniel Bryan lost to Rusev. He accepted it. He was given ovation after the match. Heck, Lorcan/Burch didn't get good reaction when they entered the match and then accepted their defeat and were well received. Why should I support a guy who's just complaining and not doing anything? He lost to Brock Lesnar fair and square at Wrestlemania. Why did he get another title match at Greatest Royal Rumble? So, he can lose and get another title chance so that he can complain? Why should I cheer him?

 

[Hyorinmaru]

1) No one wants to see him in the position Vince seems intent on cramming him into.

2) He's lost to Lesnar clean numerous times in title matches and people are supposed to be behind him when he wants another shot? He's coming off as a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

3) He's what we see every week. Is it fair when we know it's all Vince but it's the way it is

 

[Hurt2k1]

Well one thing that kinda got me was this past Raw when Reigns came to Rollins aid while Ziggler and McIntyre were beating Rollins up but storyline purposes other to infuse Reigns into a white hot storyline and try to get some fan support for him I really dont see why he needs to get involved at all this would have been better for someone else to make the save ie... Ambrose or anyone else for that matter

 

[radec]

Here we go again. Time to for numbnuts to be like "stop hating Roman" "you're just jealous" YADA YADA YADA. Listen, Roman being the top guy isn't that big of a problem. Though i would rather have all 3 members of the Shield be the faces of the company. In the same vein as with Austin and Rock. The problem with Roman will always WWE wanting fans to accept this guy to suddenly be a main eventer, shoving him constantly down fans throats when they rejected, awful dialogue he's being given and no character development or change with him. And it doesn't help when employees of the company tell fans to go fuck themselves for thinking differently of Roman. Fans don't actually hate Roman (though they might whenever he says something stupid in an interview, he ain't helping himself there either), they hate what Vince sees in a modern day main eventer, which worked back then, but won't work now. They don't wanna spend another decade watching a boring babyface with no character development constantly winning matches while commentators are talking about how much of an underdog he is. It'd be better if he was this badass that takes what he wants. Much like Goldberg or Shinsuke Nakamura back in New Japan and NXT. But no, they act like if he's some underdog that the machine is against, when we know that's not true. Also, they need to stop having popular babyfaces that fans actually want to see (AJ Styles, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan) praise Roman, have him save them (and not have Roman do the same) and/or tag with him. Roman is gonna be overshadowed by them or he's gonna get them booed with him. Bottom line, WWE should have waited with Roman and build him up as a badass Samoan who rarely talks and doesn't chase, rather than just a babyface who's kinda more special than others and goes for the chase.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I think fans that hate roman or even those that defend why fans reject reigns are missing the point completely. WWE couldn'T care less about the smart fans, like they said multiple times, they cheered who they want and they boo who they want at less they are reacting to something. They also so know that this section of the fan base who stop watching because a) they love bitching about what WWE is doing wrong in their eyes and b) will want to support their favorite guys. So they already got their money one way or another.

The point with the Reigns push was to create a new superhero type character for the younger audience because kids compared to the adult male audience, don'T care about all the backstage stuff and why this guy is getting push. All they want is a to see a over the top live size superhero type character like Reigns or a underdog guy like bryan fighting the odds. It doesn'T take a lot to entertain them and they are the one that buy the most merchandise on a regular based. A family with 3 kids can spend up between 200$ and 300$ worth of merchandise easily on a show and that's what WWE is looking for. That's also why Reigns is the number 1 merch seller in the company even through the hardcore wrestling fans hates his guts.

WWE is and always will be a business first and a wrestling company second. They look at their product not as a wrestling company but as a business, that's why Vince as been so successful over the years and that's why niche Product like NXT, NXT UK and 205 Live exist, because WWE can afford Losing money on these ventures just to please the hardcore fanbase. WWE is family entertainment, if you want to watch a wrestling company don't watch WWE, go watch New japan or ROH or Even Impact wrestling because these company produce wrestling. WWE Produce Entertainment and that's why Cena got push the way he did and that's why Reigns got push the way he did or any other guy that were top guy before them.

Because in the end, their something about theses guys that the casual fans will be attracted by. They are larger then life character and for a casual fans, that's pretty much all they need. The Smart fans won't leave no matter what but they won't buy anything as well so Vince does what he always done and that's focusing on families and casual fans and it seem to be working pretty well since they are making way more money then they ever will. So we can have this debate about Reigns all we want, but the fact of the matter is, no matter what we thing or how we react to him, he's still a draw for the company so they will continue to push him on top of the card.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I have never got the mentality of wrestling fans when it comes to a guy getting pushed, and them hating on them.

Why boo John Cena, why boo Roman? Did either of them actively campaign to be the top guy?

Yet people like "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels are loved, when they did everything to put themselves over, refused to lose to certain opponents and actively "buried people" onscreen and off.

Yet for all the hate Cena got for twelve years, and all the things he was accused of, one charge even the most vehement Cena haters never made was that he put himself up as being the top guy, or that he actually suggested burying Miz and others.

All Cena or Roman did was take an opportunity presented to them. What are they supposed to do, say "Thanks Vince, for wanting to me be the top guy, the figurehead, offering me the chance to have numerous title reigns, and headlining multiple Wrestlemanias, but I don't feel I deserve it. So the answer's "No" ". Tell me if anyone was offered the "top spot" that they would turn it down. Who was offered that, and refused, preferring a mid-card or lower card role instead. No-one, and none of you would refuse it either.

So why boo them or hate on them. I know you say that you boo Roman, it isn't him you are booing, but Vince for pushing him as the guy (AKA the guy YOU don't like (you probably want some indy skinny-armed shortass from ROH as WWE Champion instead). The problem with this defense is then why do some people say that they want Roman to get injured, retire or die? That isn't directing hatred towards Vince, but a guy simply exercising an opportunity that any of you would want, or that you want for your short, scrawny,indy faves to have.

You are hypocrites for booing Cena and Roman, when they are just playing a part GIVEN to them, yet respect Austin, Nash, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Undertaker, Brock etc, who have done everything to actively make themselves stars, by stopping others from becoming stars in the process, and demanding certain finishes to matches, or that they are made to look good. Cena or Roman, from my understanding, haven't ever sought to do that.

I don't know what else to say that many have already did. I am sure you have your reasons in bringing this topic up over but there's nothing more to add in this topic that hasn't been discussed in your previous threads.

 

[JoeMallard]

Roman Reigns, the 6'3, 265 pound underdog... hahaha!

 

[Psykohurricane55]

All I have to say is that they really luck out the last 2 weeks with reigns as the crowd for the last 2 weeks of raw as mostly cheered for reigns and pretty reacted to him the way wwe wants them to react to him. He's the definition of what a tweener is suppose to be. You can believe the narrative of the hardcore fan base and the wrestling media's if you want, but if the crowd reaction he receive the last few weeks are any indication, not everybody hates him like what we've been hearing for years now and the reigns experience is more of a success then we think.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I feel much of the antagonism towards Reigns is really misplaced frustration towards Vince McMahon. Reigns is only pushed because Vince McMahon wants it, he only feuds with whomever Vince McMahon chooses, his matches end the way Vince McMahon decides, etc.. Basically, when it's anything concerning Roman Reigns and his role within WWE, it always comes down to being Vince McMahon's decision. However, since Roman Reigns is the one that people see each week out there doing his thing and, as a result, he's the one who winds up taking all the pent up hell and frustration many fans feel.

A good deal of the hate Reigns gets isn't justified, in my opinion, but, also in my opinion, that doesn't mean that he's cut out for the role Vince McMahon has been trying to desperately hard to have him fill for the better part of 4 years. When you get right down to it, Vince has really made things far more difficult for Reigns than they had to be by not only pushing him before he was genuinely ready for the spot but by continuously doubling down on his position time after time when it was obvious that many a fan simply wasn't buying into what he was trying to sell with Roman.

At first, Vince tries to make Roman the witty, charismatic, heroic babyface and it fell flatter that a New Day pancake, yet Vince would keep trying and trying despite the lukewarm reception. He had Reigns out there trying to be all cutesy like John Cena was back through much of the 2000s and even went so far as personally writing Reigns' promos for him, which included taking catchphrases from Looney Toons characters.

Then, he decides to switch it up and have Reigns as sort of this alpha male babyface who dominates but fans are already long since frustrated by this time due to Vince continuing to double down on what he wants and Reigns just not adapting to the role.

So now, Vince has tried to have Reigns play the guy that's been screwed over by the system with him chasing after Lesnar, using the botch to their match ending at the Greatest Royal Rumble, in the hopes that fans will have sympathy for him. This is the most idiotic of his attempts because no one is going to remotely suspend disbelief for a moment to accept Roman Reigns as someone that the "system" is trying to screw over; I mean...c'mon...Roman Reigns is EXACTLY the type of star that Vince McMahon designed his "system" and set it up for. MAYBE something like this would work if he hadn't spent the last 4 years trying to force Reigns onto fans by creating moment after moment for him at big event after big event.

Again, Reigns is ultimately only doing his best with what he's been given. You have to remember that ultimately nothing Reigns does or says on our TV screens, laptops, phones, tablets or however we watch WWE programming happens without Vince McMahon's approval. Instead of even trying to do something with Reigns that feels the least bit organic, Vince McMahon has a very specific image and ideal in mind for Reigns and he simply will not give up on creating this ultimate, alpha male babyface that he wants Reigns to be no matter how many times he's going to continue failing. Vince constantly creates one shitstorm after another for Reigns and Reigns is the one who catches every single turd right smack in the face.

You just proved what is wrong with today's wrestling fan. All the fans want is an "underdog", someone who they can feel sympathy with, and feel sorry for. The fans want someone like themselves they can look up to, someone who always loses.

You hate the "system" and think you are "screwed" by the system. You hate WWE management, because they remind you of how you don't get a fair go at work. Austin was loved because he beat up his boss. That is why today's society is decaying. Because instead of trying to get smarter, work harder or do better, people are entitled brats, and they bring that to their wrestling fandom. Wrestling fans think THEY are the stars and run the show, with their chants that have nothing to do with what is going on in the ring, and their demands that THEIR guy be the one who main events every month.

You all don't like Roman because he is Vince's choice. Just like you all razzed Cena because he is Vince's choice. You refuse to accept that Vince McMahon knows what he is doing, and might know what sells tickets better than some scrubbers who sit behind their computer and want their insecurities taken away.

If Daniel Bryan had been pushed from day one, you would not cheer him, because management picked him. Name me one superstar, ONE, who Vince pushed that the fans subsequently got on board with? Can't name any, I think I have proven my point.

If Seth got the Roman push, you would hate him too. If A.J. Styles became the "guy", all the goodwill with the "smark" wrestling fans will dry up. Why? Because wrestling fans are like fans of any franchise or product. They think they know what is best. Fans don't care what sells, or what makes the most money, they just want their indy darlings catered to.

If Roman wasn't pushed anymore, and was in the midcard, you would all suddenly not hate on him anymore. Imagine that. No, you will then turn on Vince's next choice. The fans refused to accept Lex Luger back at WMX as the "guy", they have turned down Cena, and now Roman.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Except that it's not the colour thing. How about the same exact entrance theme? Or even exact way coming out of the crowd?


Yes. Sure. After already being a 3 time World Champion. And he lost the World Championship after the suspension. And then he was already in a United States Championship feud by the time Summerslam came.


If someone was pushed the wrong way earlier, it doesn't justify the next pushes the same wrong way. One wrong doesn't make another wrong right.



Except that he was feuding with Dolph Ziggler & Baron Corbin after he was called up to the main roster. That is mid card. I guess.


It loses impact when he uses it constantly multiple times in a single match. His superman punch has almost become what German Suplex is for Brock Lesnar.


These are finishers. And no one calls a match a great or classic because of a finisher kick out.


Except the fact that it wasn't as used as it's when Goldberg or Edge used it.


Except the overuse of super kicks by Young Bucks is quite criticised. They are in ROH and Japan, right?


How do you know the physique of the one who's just posting his views?


Nope.


How do you know why that guy cheered Austin? Or even if he cheered him or not?


Or maybe WWE told a story good enough to make me invest into a wrestler like Daniel Bryan? By the way, again, how do you know that he cheered Bryan? And why?


How do you know so? You & Me haven't even met 1% of this huge world. How can you say so?


Or maybe we cheer because we are given reasons to?


Roman Reigns' character hasn't gotten that stale yet. Heck, I don't know what his character is supposed to be.


As if the others getting pushed aren't his choices? Braun Strowman is well received. Vince likes him, no?


Vince is well credited for many things. Roman Reigns' one is in a negative way.


Except the fact that you don't know every fan. And are basing it off your superiority complex.


Did Vince just choose two guys over so many years? Or did others get well received as well? When Bryan won at Wrestlemania 30, did Vince not say yes for it? He did, right?


I'll tell you why I won't cheer him. Because I have no reason to. Merchandise sales won't make me cheer him. His performance will. His actions will. Why should I cheer a guy who is a World Champion and is then suspended for a month? Why should I cheer a guy who has been defeated and instead of accepting it, he has been complaining about it? Why should I cheer a person who behaves like a villain? Daniel Bryan lost to Rusev. He accepted it. He was given ovation after the match. Heck, Lorcan/Burch didn't get good reaction when they entered the match and then accepted their defeat and were well received. Why should I support a guy who's just complaining and not doing anything? He lost to Brock Lesnar fair and square at Wrestlemania. Why did he get another title match at Greatest Royal Rumble? So, he can lose and get another title chance so that he can complain? Why should I cheer him?

-Roman doesn't come out through the crowd Shield style anymore, so he has changed his entrance.

-You say that Shinsuke was feuding with Ziggler and Corbin, thus starting in the midcard. But after those feuds, he beat Cena on SD Live and fought the WWE Champion on the second biggest show of the year, less than four months after debuting on the main roster. But then, Shinsuke is a skinny guy who comes from Japan, so you won't bag him because he isn't muscle-bound, does a cool dance and to criticize him would make you be a racist in the eyes of a mod like Dagger Dias.

-You talk about overused moves in matches. Yet people mark when Brock hits German suplex after German suplex, like the 27 he hit on John Cena at "Summerslam" when he came back. I didn't here you complaining then.

-What do you mean no-one ever considers a match great when it has multiple finisher kick-outs. Many a Wrestlemania main event (such as HBK-Taker both times) had multiple finishers being hit, only for the opponent to kick out, and the frustration from the wrestler that they can't put their opponent away. It doesn't destroy the impact, it builds tension, as you don't know which time the finisher will finally get the pinfall.

People like Austin never had anyone kick out of the Stunner because he politicked to not have anyone kick out of it. He even buried the Rock with it.


I have never heard the Young Bucks' kicks being criticised. So either you are wrong, or the Young Bucks are so irrelevant that no-one mentions them here. The Young Bucks are just trying to rip off the Hardy Boys, Rock 'N Roll Express and the Rockers anyway.

"Or maybe we cheer because we are given reason to".

What? So you cheer because you are COMPELLED to? What, you don't have a choice.

No, you cheer or boo what you CHOOSE to. You boo Roman because you REFUSE to accept him as the guy, or else you have to admit that Vince McMahon sometimes gets it right, and none of you smarks can ever admit that. You are always right, and Vince McMahon is always wrong in you and your mates' universe, and any stars that became big YOU made famous, and it had nothing to do with Vince creating them.

Look, stop blaming Roman, Vince and others for your dissatisfaction with wrestling. Take ownership, and admit that YOU don't like it, because WWE doesn't put what YOU like at the centre of their universe. Be mature and accept responsibility that you are the one with the problem, and it might be time to find other interests that you enjoy more, rather than keep banging your head against a brick wall that Vince will do something different to what has actually made him money for the last three and a half decades. Wrestling isn't for you anymore, face it. Time to move on.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

You just proved what is wrong with today's wrestling fan. All the fans want is an "underdog", someone who they can feel sympathy with, and feel sorry for. The fans want someone like themselves they can look up to, someone who always loses.

As usual, you're trying to twist what someone says, me in this case, to make it suit your ends while always trying to generalize every wrestling fan, and wrestlers themselves, into categories to make it seem like you have some legitimate point. What fans want is someone they can invest in organically, there are more than just alpha males and underdogs in wrestling by the way, but they're not getting that and haven't been getting that. Reigns isn't remotely as bad as some try to make him out, but he's also not remotely as good as you try to make him out either, not in the role he's been constantly pushed towards. Vince wants Reigns over in a very specific way and very specific role; he's tried everything and what he's tried now is to cast Reigns as some sort of underdog fighting from underneath and it's stupid, it's just plain ol' fucking stupid. Trying to sell Roman Reigns as an underdog is like trying to sell the 60s Batman TV series as high drama.

You hate the "system" and think you are "screwed" by the system. You hate WWE management, because they remind you of how you don't get a fair go at work. Austin was loved because he beat up his boss. That is why today's society is decaying. Because instead of trying to get smarter, work harder or do better, people are entitled brats, and they bring that to their wrestling fandom. Wrestling fans think THEY are the stars and run the show, with their chants that have nothing to do with what is going on in the ring, and their demands that THEIR guy be the one who main events every month.

Man, you really, really, really need to stop trying to generalize everyone. It doesn't put any strength into your arguments or position, it just makes you come off like someone desperate to get his points accepted. I don't hate WWE management, I don't hate the "system" and I don't buy into the commentary of this being what's wrong with society. If I think WWE management screws up and that Vince's "system" is outdated in some cases, what's wrong with voicing that opinion. I do agree with the notion that there are too many fans who want to be stars of the show, but what about fans who simply would like Vince McMahon to actually pay attention to what and who they're interested in? Do you think fans wouldn't be interested in Finn Balor here, or Seth Rollins? What about Drew McIntyre or....I dunno….the most over babyface on the Raw roster, AKA Braun Strowman? Maybe consider a Kevin Owens face turn and give him the push? It's something to think about. For four years now, Vince has tried time after time after time to force fans to accept Reigns because it's what HE wants and there is no, logical, justifiable reason why they shouldn't voice that opinion. If something isn't working, if it's not getting over with fans the way that he wants it to, then why not actually try fixing it by making needed changes? Why not turn Reigns heel? Why not turn him into a vicious tweener with no friends or allies? Why not at least give those things a try? They can't possibly cause any damage to Reigns and maybe it could work; I don't know that it'd work, of course, but it's something to try. You've heard the old saying about insanity being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? It's what Vince has subjected Reigns to over the years.

You all don't like Roman because he is Vince's choice. Just like you all razzed Cena because he is Vince's choice. You refuse to accept that Vince McMahon knows what he is doing, and might know what sells tickets better than some scrubbers who sit behind their computer and want their insecurities taken away.

If Daniel Bryan had been pushed from day one, you would not cheer him, because management picked him. Name me one superstar, ONE, who Vince pushed that the fans subsequently got on board with? Can't name any, I think I have proven my point.

If Seth got the Roman push, you would hate him too. If A.J. Styles became the "guy", all the goodwill with the "smark" wrestling fans will dry up. Why? Because wrestling fans are like fans of any franchise or product. They think they know what is best. Fans don't care what sells, or what makes the most money, they just want their indy darlings catered to.

If Roman wasn't pushed anymore, and was in the midcard, you would all suddenly not hate on him anymore. Imagine that. No, you will then turn on Vince's next choice. The fans refused to accept Lex Luger back at WMX as the "guy", they have turned down Cena, and now Roman.

Do you know why so many fans would accept AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan in the spot over Roman Reigns? Because not only do they like them, but they like them because they have actual reasons to. They have actual personalities, they have actual personas that tell a story whereas Roman Reigns' entire schtick is walking around, surveying everything like he owns it and calling himself "the Big Dog." That's it. Jack up the intensity and throw in a heel turn, and there may be something to invest in. Now I'll agree that, unfortunately, there are some fans that are just too damn stupid to just dislike someone just because Vince is into him; they do it out of some misguided principle or they think it makes them edgy as they strike back at the corporate machine. It's idiotic but it doesn't make up all fans who're just not digging Roman Reigns' never-ending push. I do think some of the hate towards him might disappear if he was pushed down to the mid-card because MAYBE, just MAYBE it's where he belongs. If given a choice between that and Vince repeating the same mistakes time and time again, I'll gladly give mid-card Roman a try.

You haven't proven any sort of point, you haven't established any sort of argument. You're making the same allegations and generalizations towards fans who don't share your like of Roman Reigns because you're butt hurt over it. Within a couple of months, you'll make another thread just like this one asking why others don't think Reigns is the mountain of caramel complexioned lusciousness and greatness that you do. A number of posters will give you their reasons, some of which are genuinely credible and have weight to them, you'll get mad, start generalizing and categorizing because it's all you've got. You won't convince anyone you're right, no one will convince you that they're right and the discussion will pick back up a few months down the road.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Do you know why so many fans would accept AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan in the spot over Roman Reigns? Because not only do they like them, but they like them because they have actual reasons to. They have actual personalities, they have actual personas that tell a story whereas Roman Reigns' entire schtick is walking around, surveying everything like he owns it and calling himself "the Big Dog." That's it. Jack up the intensity and throw in a heel turn, and there may be something to invest in. Now I'll agree that, unfortunately, there are some fans that are just too damn stupid to just dislike someone just because Vince is into him; they do it out of some misguided principle or they think it makes them edgy as they strike back at the corporate machine. It's idiotic but it doesn't make up all fans who're just not digging Roman Reigns' never-ending push. I do think some of the hate towards him might disappear if he was pushed down to the mid-card because MAYBE, just MAYBE it's where he belongs. If given a choice between that and Vince repeating the same mistakes time and time again, I'll gladly give mid-card Roman a try.

while i agree with what you're saying, aren't you also generalizing the fact that every fans hate Reigns and that every fans accept aj styles and Bryan for the reason you mention. That's not the case at all. Not every fans hate Reigns just like no everybody like Bryan or Aj Styles. We are in a era we're pretty much everybody like who they want and hate who they want.

Reigns is as over to a certain portion of the crowd as Aj Styles or Daniel Bryan. The days of Babyface and Heel in WWE are gone because the thinking of the fans have change. The smart fans or hardcore fanbase as stop suspending disbelief. Now because of the internet and social media, most of them are would rather criticize the product instead of suspending their disbelief. For the most part, they think that they could do better then Vince, Yet vince as proven over the years that his way work even if those fans don't like it. Just look at somebody like Reigns, a guy the smart fans seems to hate for some reason or another. All you read on the internet and in newsletter or heard on podcast is how reigns isn't over and the whole thing as been a failure because the FANS have rejected it. Yet when WWE release the quarterly reports, guess who in the top 3 money maker for the company? Roman Reigns so put yourself in Vince's shoes for a minute. When you see those numbers, do you feel like the Roman Reigns experiment is a failure or a success. Do you stop pushing your cash cow because fans boo him or do you continue the course and ride the money train. Any good business man will take money and run.

We need to remember that WWE is a business and if they would always listen to the fans like we want them to do, we wouldn'T have gotten NXT or the cruiserweight or even the New NXT uk brand because they're wouldn't have been money to pay for those project. NXT is in the red every year. i'm sure that the 205 live brand is costing them a lot of money as well so is the uk division. That money comes from guys the fact that guys like Reigns is making money for the company. The old way of looking who's is over is done because cheering for somebody doesn't necessarily translate to money for them like it did back in the 90 or 80 or even early 2000. You can be hate and be selling more merchandise then the most over guy in the company. So personally, i don'T base my opinion on fan reaction anymore because i know that it doesn'T mean squat anymore. If fans want to trash on Roman for whatever reason, then let them trash him because in the end, Reigns is pretty much laughing at them when he see his monthly merchandise check on top of is salary.

This thread really mean nothing because fan reaction to a certain individual mean nothing anymore. Reigns might be hated by the smart fans for whatever reason, but as seen the past few weeks, they're still a lot of fans that do love reigns as well, so who's right and who's wrong in this? really nobody, if you don't like Reigns, then don't like reigns. It'S you're choice, same as if you like him. But we as fans, we need to stop doing like the meltzer of the world and generalize the fact that every single fans hates reigns because that'S just no true at all.

 

[ShinChan]

-Roman doesn't come out through the crowd Shield style anymore, so he has changed his entrance.

Yeah. I know very well. I just put up that point because you brought up the colour point.

-You say that Shinsuke was feuding with Ziggler and Corbin, thus starting in the midcard. But after those feuds, he beat Cena on SD Live and fought the WWE Champion on the second biggest show of the year, less than four months after debuting on the main roster.

Who says that he was booked perfectly?

But then, Shinsuke is a skinny guy who comes from Japan, so you won't bag him because he isn't muscle-bound, does a cool dance and to criticize him would make you be a racist in the eyes of a mod like Dagger Dias.

Oh dear. The physique of a wrestler doesn't make me interested or disinterested. Cool dance? I don't like his dance either. Criticism of him won't make me a racist. Discrimination of him using his race, that'll make me racist in eyes of Dagger. Don't worry about my image in someone's eyes. Please.

-You talk about overused moves in matches. Yet people mark when Brock hits German suplex after German suplex, like the 27 he hit on John Cena at "Summerslam" when he came back. I didn't here you complaining then.

Because you don't know me. I have complained more about his german suplexes than anything else since years. I have stopped watching his matches too. Get updated bro.

-What do you mean no-one ever considers a match great when it has multiple finisher kick-outs. Many a Wrestlemania main event (such as HBK-Taker both times) had multiple finishers being hit, only for the opponent to kick out, and the frustration from the wrestler that they can't put their opponent away. It doesn't destroy the impact, it builds tension, as you don't know which time the finisher will finally get the pinfall.

Just a finisher kick-out doesn't make a match great. That's all. What my point is.

People like Austin never had anyone kick out of the Stunner because he politicked to not have anyone kick out of it. He even buried the Rock with it.

Damn. Tell me more. Meltzer would be so jealous of you right now.

I have never heard the Young Bucks' kicks being criticised.

Like I said earlier, Get updated bro! I have criticised them myself. Multiple times. Update bro?

So either you are wrong,

You would love to believe that although it's fantasy. At least here.

or the Young Bucks are so irrelevant that no-one mentions them here.

Oh dear. They are the most successful non-WWE tag team at this moment. Think before you speak.

The Young Bucks are just trying to rip off the Hardy Boys, Rock 'N Roll Express and the Rockers anyway.

Let's assume. You're right. Did you learn the saying that you need brains to copy rightly?

"Or maybe we cheer because we are given reason to".

What? So you cheer because you are COMPELLED to? What, you don't have a choice.

Sweet. I cheer because I am given a reason to cheer. To be compelled is different.

No, you cheer or boo what you CHOOSE to.

Oh dear. You know me so well.

You boo Roman because you REFUSE to accept him as the guy,

I'm really doubtful if Roman Reigns thinks if he's the guy. By the way. I don't boo him because he's not a bad guy. I don't cheer up because he's not a good guy. I just don't react because he's the guy. His words, not mine.

or else you have to admit that Vince McMahon sometimes gets it right,

He does get it right. I already said it in my last post. Do you read what I post? It's not that bad that you don't read before responding.

and none of you smarks can ever admit that.

Oh dear. How do you know me so well?

You are always right,

Stop over rating me. I'm not Roman Reigns.

and Vince McMahon is always wrong in you and your mates' universe, and any stars that became big YOU made famous, and it had nothing to do with Vince creating them.

Well, most the big stars were made famous when I wasn't born or I was just a kid. I didn't do anything. Vince did. Seriously.

Look,

Whom?

stop blaming Roman,

Can I blame you or myself for his underwhelming performance?

Vince and others for your dissatisfaction with wrestling.

Well, I'm damn satisfied with wrestling. Seriously. It's so fun.

Take ownership, and admit that YOU don't like it, because WWE doesn't put what YOU like at the centre of their universe.

Oh dear. No. Supreme Court Judge, you're? Nope. I like what I like. I love what I love. I don't like it what I don't like. Regardless of what WWE wants me to do. I can't blindly praise them. Simple. You can. Kudos to you.

Be mature and accept responsibility that you are the one with the problem, and it might be time to find other interests that you enjoy more, rather than keep banging your head against a brick wall that Vince will do something different to what has actually made him money for the last three and a half decades. Wrestling isn't for you anymore, face it. Time to move on.

Honey, I'm happy enjoying wrestling. Try that somewhere else. I hope that you enjoy it as much as you advocate it blindly. Especially Vince. And the ultra-interesting Roman Reigns.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

So people are citing that we now "know" how previous pushes worked and that we "know" how a modern one does...

Get over this fact... you REALLY don't!

You are not privy to the endless focus groups, marketing meetings and huddles that lead a star to get pushed. The nearest you got is someones version of how it happened, in their view in a shoot interview.

There is a reason The Rock is SO clever in what he does with his movies... he tweets/insta's endless pics of those meetings... he is telling you "THIS IS MANUFACTURED GUYS!" they hash out every hit movie, idea that makes it, casting, probably even dialouge and you always see a table full of people... it's not "one guy", Dwayne may be the biggest/most important ingredient but he never says so... he makes sure it ALWAYS looks like a team effort.

Vince is the opposite with pushes if you belie dat... every story heard seems to be that everyone else has ideas and Vince does as he wants cos yes men allow it... no!

He has those meetings, he just doesn't let you or us or the public in on them... he has the same demographic info, same forecasts, bottom lines and creative force Dwayne does... he's just not letting you in on it.

On paper Reigns SHOULD be money...and not just money but MONEY!!! but he isn't. Is that on him? in part, is it on Vince? in part... on us? in part... but the other intangible is the stuff you can't see, the intangible... some have it, some don't and no spreadsheet, marketing plan or push will create it.

Rock got where he is because he had that intangible that we call it... he was a pretty shitty wrestler for much of his career, needed a writer as the Rock and had to battle every fan who hated him... but he had "it" and he won us over... Austin was a great worker, lost it cos of injury but found a second gear and "it" on the mic... Jericho had "it" in the ring but had to really work to reinvent himself to become something special.

Reigns hasn't had to do any of that... it has literally been handed to him on the basis of

a) "The Samoan Connection" - that could be all kinds of murky shit linked to Superfly or just genuine loyalty to a family that has never actually let Vince down as such...

b) He has a "look" that ticks all the demographics that the toy and marketing people want...

c) Vince likes him as a man/his work ethic enough to want to persevere

d) Vince chose him and doesn't want to lose face...

We KNOW he hasn't lived up to his status as a chosen one... we know there are better guys and other former chosen ones like Drew who are kicking his ass as a performer... but when it comes down it it, enough of those boxes are being ticked... he sells shirts to people... some would say stupid ones, but he does... he isn't the worst/laziest worker they have in a big position (coughs Brock/Orton) and he will always have the value from The Shield... he, Rollins and Ambrose can ALWAYS work together either as friends or foes and sell shit...same as Hunter and Shawn can but Shawn and Marty couldn't...

Roman is not the next John Cena, all parties recognise that now... but he is easily the next Orton... he's gonna be there a long, long time... if you're not bored of him already you will be... but as long as he stays loyal, doesn't fuck up and still sells shit... He's gonna be there. Sting ended up pretty much the same in WCW in truth...

 

[Ceen]

I personally don't hate Roman Reigns. I hate the way he is booked as. And I think a lot of people shares this with me.

It's not he needs a heel turn, he needs a turn, a change, some improve. He needs to be wild, to be that Samoan Bad A*s more dominant, which in the matches we see him in that role, I actually like how he wrestles, even knowing he is not AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan. He needs more attitude, he has grown a lot more in the last two years without a World Championship than all the World Championship push. And imagine if he just turned heel and was wild, savage and was booked as his "persona". He would be over in a few months.

I think WWE always has been looking for a new "FACE" to turn and put over Roman, and they still are looking for it. Maybe Seth Rollins, maybe AJ Styles, maybe Finn Balor, maybe Braun Strowman, but they don't wanna do the step. They NEED to to that little step.

And how I would book him:

-Get the mic, go to the ring. Grab it, look at it, drop it. Leave the ring. Then, destroy every single match in the show. Get some people on the faction (AOP, Elias and Sarah Logan, and then maybe The Ascension or the Revival, Jason Jordan and some other women) to destroy the matches. In the last segment, camera shot on the GM office, and we look Kurt knocked out. Roman goes to the ring, grabs the mic and says "This is now my Empire". (Off RAW)

You get a RAW vs The Roman Empire since Wrestlemania book correctly...

 

[d_henderson1810]

As usual, you're trying to twist what someone says, me in this case, to make it suit your ends while always trying to generalize every wrestling fan, and wrestlers themselves, into categories to make it seem like you have some legitimate point. What fans want is someone they can invest in organically, there are more than just alpha males and underdogs in wrestling by the way, but they're not getting that and haven't been getting that. Reigns isn't remotely as bad as some try to make him out, but he's also not remotely as good as you try to make him out either, not in the role he's been constantly pushed towards. Vince wants Reigns over in a very specific way and very specific role; he's tried everything and what he's tried now is to cast Reigns as some sort of underdog fighting from underneath and it's stupid, it's just plain ol' fucking stupid. Trying to sell Roman Reigns as an underdog is like trying to sell the 60s Batman TV series as high drama.



Man, you really, really, really need to stop trying to generalize everyone. It doesn't put any strength into your arguments or position, it just makes you come off like someone desperate to get his points accepted. I don't hate WWE management, I don't hate the "system" and I don't buy into the commentary of this being what's wrong with society. If I think WWE management screws up and that Vince's "system" is outdated in some cases, what's wrong with voicing that opinion. I do agree with the notion that there are too many fans who want to be stars of the show, but what about fans who simply would like Vince McMahon to actually pay attention to what and who they're interested in? Do you think fans wouldn't be interested in Finn Balor here, or Seth Rollins? What about Drew McIntyre or....I dunno….the most over babyface on the Raw roster, AKA Braun Strowman? Maybe consider a Kevin Owens face turn and give him the push? It's something to think about. For four years now, Vince has tried time after time after time to force fans to accept Reigns because it's what HE wants and there is no, logical, justifiable reason why they shouldn't voice that opinion. If something isn't working, if it's not getting over with fans the way that he wants it to, then why not actually try fixing it by making needed changes? Why not turn Reigns heel? Why not turn him into a vicious tweener with no friends or allies? Why not at least give those things a try? They can't possibly cause any damage to Reigns and maybe it could work; I don't know that it'd work, of course, but it's something to try. You've heard the old saying about insanity being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? It's what Vince has subjected Reigns to over the years.



Do you know why so many fans would accept AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan in the spot over Roman Reigns? Because not only do they like them, but they like them because they have actual reasons to. They have actual personalities, they have actual personas that tell a story whereas Roman Reigns' entire schtick is walking around, surveying everything like he owns it and calling himself "the Big Dog." That's it. Jack up the intensity and throw in a heel turn, and there may be something to invest in. Now I'll agree that, unfortunately, there are some fans that are just too damn stupid to just dislike someone just because Vince is into him; they do it out of some misguided principle or they think it makes them edgy as they strike back at the corporate machine. It's idiotic but it doesn't make up all fans who're just not digging Roman Reigns' never-ending push. I do think some of the hate towards him might disappear if he was pushed down to the mid-card because MAYBE, just MAYBE it's where he belongs. If given a choice between that and Vince repeating the same mistakes time and time again, I'll gladly give mid-card Roman a try.

You haven't proven any sort of point, you haven't established any sort of argument. You're making the same allegations and generalizations towards fans who don't share your like of Roman Reigns because you're butt hurt over it. Within a couple of months, you'll make another thread just like this one asking why others don't think Reigns is the mountain of caramel complexioned lusciousness and greatness that you do. A number of posters will give you their reasons, some of which are genuinely credible and have weight to them, you'll get mad, start generalizing and categorizing because it's all you've got. You won't convince anyone you're right, no one will convince you that they're right and the discussion will pick back up a few months down the road.

1) Blah! Blah! Blah! I can't even understand the point of your first paragraph.

2) I never said that Roman was good, or the best for the role, and if this was an isolated incident, I might even believe you.

But Roman is looked at as "John Cena 2.0". You people said the EXACT same things about John Cena for 12 years e.g. he can't wrestle (he can), he only has five moves (he has more than that), he should turn heel (maybe, but if it makes storyline sense, or to give him new opponents to fight, not just to cater to fans).

I predicted a few years ago, and it has come to fruition, that one day you people will give Cena his dues instead, when he is retired, and not around every week, and if he were to go into the HoF, you would all cheer him, because no matter how much a wrestler from the past sucks, the fans give the nostalgia pop to them, and also, someone new would come along who you people think sucks more than Cena, and guess what, I was right. Cena is not as hated these days, and the fans have turned their hatred to Vince's next project instead. And you'll do it to the guy who replaces Roman, and the next one, and the next one. Rinse and repeat. Anything to believe that Vince McMahon doesn't have a clue.

Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion on the state of WWE, provided it is actually YOUR opinion, and not just parroting the same things many of the others on here say. As long as you are not just saying things to be popular on this board.

If you gave me unique and different reasons, well-thought out ones that I haven't heard before, then it might give me food for thought. But I have heard Roman haters use the same few arguments on why he sucks (which, surprisingly, never bothered them when Roman was in NXT or a member of the Shield, where he, Seth and Dean were considered "cool"). If Roman sucks now, then how come he didn't in NXT or in the Shield? Has his ringwork and stickwork deteriorated, or is it because Vince made him a big deal?

Braun Strowman over as a babyface? That might have worked, if Braun wasn't booked to lose to Brock after ONE F5, or if he didn't spend Wrestlemania tagging with a child (see, I can criticise WWE decisions as well).

Also, I wouldn't want to see Kevin Owens ever be a "babyface" no matter how popular he is. He is a natural heel, and besides, you want Roman to turn heel, then you will cheer him, so why not keeping cheering KO for being a heel?

Don't you see, if Roman goes heel, you will all cheer him, and he becomes popular (according to your argument) so Vince will then turn him back face. It is self-defeating to turn him for that reason.

"Fans accept A.J. Styles and Daniel Bryan because fans have reasons to like them".

It also helps that Styles fought in Japan, the haven of wrestling fanboy's wet dreams, and Bryan came from the indies. Also helps that neither have a massive physique and haven't been pushed to the moon by Vince. If they had, I tip the fans would think differently about them.

I maintain that DB's injury was a blessing in one way. It meant that his reign as champion ended before it became too stale for fans, or the fans got bored and turned on him. Also, it meant that he dodged Dave Meltzer announcing him as Vince's "boy" and Vince being "high" on him, spelling the death knell to fan popularity. You all said "Yes! Yes!" to Bryan winning the belt at WMXXX, but if he was still champion by WM31, I tip you would have said "No! No!".

You say that you would give mid-card Roman a try. Now, I believe that, if you criticise a decision, you need to offer an alternative or better decision. So, if Roman is mid-card, then who would be "the guy" instead? Your favourite indy darling? The flavour of the month? The hottest thing in NXT? Or someone from ROH or Japan? More importantly, will this person you suggest make money and sell tickets to many people outside of those who post on here?

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Not to play the devil's advocate here, but how long will it take before the fans who hates reigns decide to turn on strowman who's is clearly the new vince's McMahon pet project.

The fact is, right now, Vince seem to be pushing harder on strowman then reigns, first by feeding him reigns during their feud, then maintaining is momentum throughout the rest of the year. Giving the tag belt at mania, then having him win the greatest royal rumble and finally winning the money in the bank briefcase which pretty much guarantees that he's the next universal champ. And he did that all in a shorter length of time then Roman. So he if strowman shows every signs of a Vince pet project so I'm thinking that sooner or later, the fans will turn on him just like they did with cena and reigns.

 

[Navi]

1)

If you gave me unique and different reasons, well-thought out ones that I haven't heard before, then it might give me food for thought. But I have heard Roman haters use the same few arguments on why he sucks (which, surprisingly, never bothered them when Roman was in NXT or a member of the Shield, where he, Seth and Dean were considered "cool"). If Roman sucks now, then how come he didn't in NXT or in the Shield? Has his ringwork and stickwork deteriorated, or is it because Vince made him a big deal?

Well I'll give you my reason for not being on the Reigns bandwagon. If you've heard it before then you can scroll on by.

I liked Reigns when he was in the Shield, I liked the Shield as a whole. They were different, unique and all three brought something to the table. Seth was great in the ring, Ambrose could out-talk most and Reigns was the silent muscle. Put all three together and you had a winning combination.

After the break up Seth was still great in the ring, Dean could still out-talk most and Reigns showed that basically the other two had carried him most of the time. I mean look at their matches, Dean or Seth would start, tag each other in and out, Reigns would come in on the hot tag at the end and finish the match.

Both Seth and Dean went on to develop new persona's and Reigns seemed to be stuck in a rut. Not his fault and it was a huge mistake not to change him up as well. His booking has been pretty bad, very predictable. Sure he's in the main event picture, but what has he done really to be there. I can't remember one single Reigns feud that was really outstanding. Nothing that would put him in the position he's found himself.

I don't care that he's Vince's pick or favourite or whatever. You get respect when you earn it and Reigns has been handed most of what he's received on a silver platter. Yes he's better in the ring, but I find his matches bland and boring. After all this time his mic skills still need improvement. I almost get the impression that he thinks "I have it all why bother even trying". Like JH said his act is to come out, look around and pronounce that he is the top dog. Well in most cases the top dog has to earn his spot. Sorry but I don't think Reigns has yet.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Both Seth and Dean went on to develop new persona's and Reigns seemed to be stuck in a rut. Not his fault and it was a huge mistake not to change him up as well. His booking has been pretty bad, very predictable. Sure he's in the main event picture, but what has he done really to be there. I can't remember one single Reigns feud that was really outstanding. Nothing that would put him in the position he's found himself.

I kinda disagree with you on one thing, Ambrose didn't really develop a new persona as it was pretty much the same thing he was when he was in the shield but with a new costume and a face attitude. Reigns, I agree, he got stuck at first but he got a chance over the years to evolve his tough guy character and he finally became comfortable with what his character is supposed to be. The same can't be say for Ambrose who's as been the same crappy character like what it seem like forever now and he's pretty much coasting on that character and really look like he's going through the motion.