Why has AWA Wrestling been forgotten in today's era?

[CM Steel]

While the American Wrestling Association (AWA) did appear on ESPN from 1985 until it folded in 1990, "All Star Wrestling" predated ESPN by 25 years.

Back in the 1960's, the AWA, based out of Minneapolis, ran house shows (live wrestling cards) in the Midwest. The main markets would usually have one house show scheduled every two weeks, while the minor markets would get one show per month.

The television show "All Star Wrestling" was essentially a one-hour paid advertisement for the AWA house shows. Every two weeks, many of the wrestlers who were currently working the house shows for the AWA would assemble at a studio in Minneapolis Minnesota. Verne Gagne was the chairman of AWA wrestling back in the day.

Now how come whenever I talk to a so-called wrestling fan in todays wrestling era. They refer to AWA as a little rinky-dink wrestling promotion from the mid-west? In my eyes, AWA was the original WWF/E. With guys like Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, ECT. All starting their epic career's there. And then later after AWA folded that's when talent started to spread to other companies like WCW and ECW before the headling stars made their way to the WWF.

AWA is where Curt "Mr. Perfect" Hennings first became a world champion. But everywhere else in wrestling it isn't even credited? So why in today's wrestling generation, fans won't give AWA the credit they deserved and then some?

 

[justtxyank]

Because quite frankly, AWA never made it national status. The idea that it was the first WWF is crazy. It was never at that level of popularity. No promotion had ever made it to national status before the WWF did it in the 1980s. Also, the idea that AWA kept its stars until it folded is false. By the time the AWA folded it wasn't considered much of a promotion anymore.

Yes, the AWA had a lot of talented workers come through there. So did Mid-South, so did Mid-Atlantic, so did Southwest Championship Wrestling, so did Continental, etc. In the 80s, AWA was third behind the WWF and JCP and it fell hard fast once the national expansion of the other two began. Verne couldn't keep it up and by 1990 it was an irrelevant promotion.

 

[Mustang Sally]

So why in today's wrestling generation, fans won't give AWA the credit they deserved and then some?

AWA Wrestling came before most of us were old enough to appreciate pro wrestling. I've seen only a handful of shows on ESPN Classic (or someplace like that) and from what I could gather, they didn't offer much in the way of storylines. Yes, there were interviews with wrestlers but they seemed to follow the old-time pattern from the 1950's: the good guys talked about making the world a better place through their wrestling efforts, while the bad guys threatened to destroy the good guys.

It's not surprising things would develop this way because Verne Gagne was a wrestling purist, not a master showman or promoter. Today's wrestling fans, though, want storylines and drama.....not just great wrestling action, which AWA admittedly did have. They used techniques (microphones attached to the bottom of the ring?) that made bodies hitting the mat sound like a person slamming a steel bar against an aluminum shed; it was that loud (so I've been told). Also, the ring had a hell of a lot of "bounce" to it, no? Watching human beings ricocheting off the mat was kind of fun, too.

There were tons of great wrestlers that passed through the promotion and it should probably be held in higher regard, but what they were offering wasn't what today's wrestling fans want.

 

[closet_fan]

Verne was too old school to make the AWA any bigger than it was. Didn't Hogan leave because he didn't want to marry one of his daughters? I remember reading a rumor that Verne wanted the Iron Shiek to break his leg when he heard Hogan was leaving.

Plus he pushed Greg Gagne to the moon and he wasn't all that good.

Some AWA matches were pretty good though. A lot of stars were in AWA before they came to the WWF. Hogan, Mean Gene, Adrian Adonis all jumped ship.

I remember seeing Scott Hall with a mustache and a Texas accent in an AWA match.

 

[tornadof86]

AWA Wrestling came before most of us were old enough to appreciate pro wrestling. I've seen only a handful of shows on ESPN Classic (or someplace like that) and from what I could gather, they didn't offer much in the way of storylines. Yes, there were interviews with wrestlers but they seemed to follow the old-time pattern from the 1950's: the good guys talked about making the world a better place through their wrestling efforts, while the bad guys threatened to destroy the good guys.

It's not surprising things would develop this way because Verne Gagne was a wrestling purist, not a master showman or promoter. Today's wrestling fans, though, want storylines and drama.....not just great wrestling action, which AWA admittedly did have. They used techniques (microphones attached to the bottom of the ring?) that made bodies hitting the mat sound like a person slamming a steel bar against an aluminum shed; it was that loud (so I've been told). Also, the ring had a hell of a lot of "bounce" to it, no? Watching human beings ricocheting off the mat was kind of fun, too.

There were tons of great wrestlers that passed through the promotion and it should probably be held in higher regard, but what they were offering wasn't what today's wrestling fans want.

that's because today's wrestling fans have short attention spans. back in the 80s (when wrestling actually mattered), wrestling promoters (like Verne Gagne) didn't need storylines or a new champion every week to keep people interested. if you had two guys who hated each enough, they could put on excellent matches weeek in and week out (throw a championship into the mix and you got some of the greatest feuds of ALL-TIME). The AWA was the last GREAT wrestling organization and it deserves all the recognition it can get.

 

[czar76]

While it is true the AWA wasn't a national company in the sense of what WWE became they were on many stations around the country long before wwe was. In the 60's they had a deal with the dupont network out of chicago that put them on across the country. Vern got attention from many sports related news letters and often was listed in the sports section of national news papers. Until the early 80's if u knew wrestling u knew about the AWA.
Many feel that Vern was just as well known by wrestling and non-wrestling fans as Hogan later became. Hell he made a movie about wrestling that got a good bit of press in the 70's. All most people know about the AWA is what went down in the 80's and by then they were no where close to what they once were.
Check the history and u will find that if Vern would have had the vision to break out of the old school system the landscape may be very different today.Problem was Vern didn't believe in contracts so when Vince came calling and offered more money and a national stage most of the top players jumped ship. Remember there was no internet or real national coverage so one day guys were in the AWA and the next they were in WWE and fans had no idea. Also most stations that did carry the AWA sold the time slots to Vince. So one week u saw AWA and the next it was WWE. Vern couldn't compete with the money.
On a side note it was stated in another post that WWE was the first national company, that is not completly true. There was a international based company(Japan and U.S.) called IWA(i think) that attempted a national run. It failed and has almost been lost to history.

 

[klunderbunker]

There are a few reasons.

First of all, by the time the national/modern era (post Hogan's title win) arrived, the AWA was a shell of its former self. You had Curt Hennig and Rick Martel and that's about it as far as young stars that were getting singles pushes. The star power all left for other companies and not many people wanted to watch guys like Jerry Blackwell.

Also the AWA wasn't really a national company. They had a TV deal but it wasn't like it would be today. In essence they were a regional company that you might be able to see outside of the region. They were nowhere near the levels of national that the main two companies were for sure. If people can't see you, they're not likely going to talk about you.

Also the AWA is known as the company that let Hulk Hogan get away. After that, no one really talked about the AWA anymore so that's their legacy: being so stuck in the past that they can't allow a guy as popular as Hogan to run with the title. When that's what you're best remembered for, you're not going to have much of a following today. After he left, everyone started leaving and by that point no one cared anymore and the company died.

Oh and the Team Challenge Series was so awful it was unreal.

 

[mrhexum]

The same can be said about many other promotions during the territory days, such as WCCW (Freebirds/Von Erich's feud is legendary but most couldn't name the promotion it mainly ran in).

I think that the AWA does get the attention it deserves. A lot of great talent worked there, but, they also worked in a lot of other places too in those days. As a promotion though, it will probably be remembered more fondly by people who grew up in the mid-west during those times.

 

[dansaun77]

Quite simple, AWA was Verne Gagne town. He was the king and ruler and refused to become even a national company. He had his territory and he stayed there. He refused to grown, expand and thus why he lost alot of talent to the guys with money(McMahon and Crockett. AWA is no different to World Class, Memphis, Stampede wrestling, yet you don't mention them. Stampede is by far and away the biggest nursery for some of the greatest wrestlers to ever set foot in a ring. Ditto Memphis and Texas. Hennig only became a world champion because all of the major players had deserted the sinking ship by 1988 and he himself volunteered to drop the World Title so he could join WWE. Shows how prestigious their world title was in the eyes of the guys who are supposed to uphold the tradition and all that jazz. Simply put, AWA was a regional territory that refused to grow with the requirements needed to stay in business.

 

[boozinjedi]

Why has AWA been mostly forgotten?

Because most of today's fans weren't even born when AWA was in its heyday!
BY mid to late 80's into early 90's...It was pretty much clear that it was gonna be a two horse show between WWF and NWA/WCW.

They did have some stellar matches from a mat wrestling point of view.
They had some awesome grapplers.

BUT promotion-wise they could never keep up with the big two.

 

[Dynamitekid2012]

Alot of it has to do with WWE pushing the market. HBK said recently in an interview that his legacy would be heavily influenced in how WWE represents that legacy. Its the same thing for all promotions and all workers. With that said, its easy to see them as more of a stepping stone on the way to the big stage because thats prettymuch how WWE has described them to us. Does it make it true? Well thats up to you to decide. I for one like to believe that AWA was pretty big even before the deal with ESPN in the 80's. In fact, that deal came much after their best days and really showcased a slowly dying product. However, I will say their are some true gems in that period that should get talked about and mentioned right up their with some of the best matches of that time period.


On a side note, and this is completely off topic, I hate that WWE has such an influence that it can literally change the history of professional wrestling. The fact that so many people talk about Bruno Sammartino as the star of the 70's disgusts me. Its nothing against him, but he was no where near the level of a star that the NWA champion was, and the true star of the 70's was Harley Race. WWWF (at that time) was a territory that had an impressive champion, but the only recognized championship nationally was the NWA title. The fact that WWE talks about the history of their championship as if it were more important is baffling. The WWE title didn't get national exposure until Hogan won it in the 80's when Vince Jr bought out most of the territories and their stars. Before that, it was just a regional title...

Sorry for the rant, but as you can tell, their influence irritates the hell out of me at times. Anyway, thats my two cents.

 

[Foshinzo]

I'm going to say it's because AWA was a shrimp sized promotion when it got on ESPN. Look at those tapings they replay on ESPN Classics sometimes; the arena was so dimmed to prevent you from realizing that no one was there. I like watching the AWA replays. I didn't even know it was a thing, when I was a kid and was watching WWF. I barely knew what WCW was, though, and that's only because my Dad had seen Rick Flair at a house show years before and knew who he was.

There was a time when AWA was pretty great, but WWF just kind of raided a lot of it's best players and Greg Gagne wasn't always the best booker. But, I maintain that if it wasn't for AWA, then Sgt. Slaughter wouldn't have been a household name. I also always love how people say it's awful Curt Hennig never won a world title, but was a champion in AWA. I know they're just talking about the WWF Championship, but it always kind of makes me laugh.

 

[jbwphoto1]

On the issue of Verne not wanting to invest the money in making AWA bigger, that's just not true. If you take a look at the DVD of the history of the AWA, you will find at the very same time Verne was battling WWF/E, he was also battling the government over something called public domain. The government eventually took land from Gagne for public use through a legal battle. This was not readily known to the average wrestling fan at the time.

My question has always been if Verne didn't have a war going on with the government, where would his war with WWF/E have ended? Would ESPN have started airing WWF/E matches instead? Would Verne have been able to get some of the wrestlers back for short term contracts?

And about Verne's movie, "The Wrestler," have any of you seen it? It's available through Netflix or whatever they call it now. The movie broke kayfabe, yet I've never heard anyone bring it up in conversations about people exposing the business. Maybe everyone who saw it thought that was all just part of the script.

 

[Headman]

While the American Wrestling Association (AWA) did appear on ESPN from 1985 until it folded in 1990, "All Star Wrestling" predated ESPN by 25 years.

Back in the 1960's, the AWA, based out of Minneapolis, ran house shows (live wrestling cards) in the Midwest. The main markets would usually have one house show scheduled every two weeks, while the minor markets would get one show per month.

The television show "All Star Wrestling" was essentially a one-hour paid advertisement for the AWA house shows. Every two weeks, many of the wrestlers who were currently working the house shows for the AWA would assemble at a studio in Minneapolis Minnesota. Verne Gagne was the chairman of AWA wrestling back in the day.

Now how come whenever I talk to a so-called wrestling fan in todays wrestling era. They refer to AWA as a little rinky-dink wrestling promotion from the mid-west? In my eyes, AWA was the original WWF/E. With guys like Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Shawn Michaels, Mr. Perfect, ECT. All starting their epic career's there. And then later after AWA folded that's when talent started to spread to other companies like WCW and ECW before the headling stars made their way to the WWF.

AWA is where Curt "Mr. Perfect" Hennings first became a world champion. But everywhere else in wrestling it isn't even credited? So why in today's wrestling generation, fans won't give AWA the credit they deserved and then some?

Because even in the 80's no one growing up on the East Coast gave a rats ass about AWA. I became a fan of AWA in the late 80's because I was an Army brat and moved around a lot, but most of my friends stuck to WWF and NWA. It was a regional company that's been defunct for 20 years. Why is it a shocker that few fans today hold it in high regard?

 

[realoldskoolfan]

I can't believe this is being debated by people who weren't born then, never seen it other than what Vince has given you in DVD form or the ESPN shows, and know nothing about it but what they have read on wikipedia or some dirt sheet.

Saddening to see a great promotion being discussed like this.


Oh and heres some info, from 1980 until 1984 (yes the same year Hogan was in WWF) the AWA was making more profit than any other promotion.


It came down to the same thing that it did with all the other promotions from this era. The old school way was out and nobody wanted to go the way of Vince until it was too late. Look, all these guys had money like Vince in the early 80's. Verne was making bank. The Von Erichs were living like kings in Texas. The Crocketts had there hands in everything back then from Nascar to concert promotion. It was a very profitable time. But they all refused to let go of the "unwritten rules" that you never poached talent, and you didn't run cards in another guys backyard.
If any one of those stepped up before Vince and used there resources the way he did, it would be a new game now. He just had the vision, and by the time the other guys figured it out, it was too late.

 

[realoldskoolfan]

Verne was too old school to make the AWA any bigger than it was. Didn't Hogan leave because he didn't want to marry one of his daughters? I remember reading a rumor that Verne wanted the Iron Shiek to break his leg when he heard Hogan was leaving.

Another Hogan lie. Hogan left for one reason and one reason only. Money. Verne was going to give him the belt in April '83 at there huge "Super Sunday" show, but last second told Hogan he wanted 40% of his earnings from Japan (where Hogan was quite a draw at the time). Hogan told him no and that was that. Within months Hulk was in WWF, Vince gave him the strap and the rest is history.

 

[Davi323]

I can't believe this is being debated by people who weren't born then, never seen it other than what Vince has given you in DVD form or the ESPN shows, and know nothing about it but what they have read on wikipedia or some dirt sheet.

Okay...I am 36 years old. I did see it in a form other than a WWE DVD. And those posters who you want to attack for being too young to appreciate it are more or less right. The AWA was a decent regional promotion, but it never achieved national status like the WWF on the USA Network or the NWA did on TBS. Sure, they were around on select stations, but you could watch the NWA and WWF anywhere in the country that had cable, and by the time the AWA made it to E$PN, they were already dying. Verne Gagne stubbornly refused to accept that the times were changing, that in order to survive, he must adapt. He didn't. The AWA simply didn't have the same TV presence that the WWF and NWA had. The AWA wasn't crap, but it was just too old school to survive in the new wrestling world Vince McMahon was creating.

 

[realoldskoolfan]

Okay...I am 36 years old. I did see it in a form other than a WWE DVD. And those posters who you want to attack for being too young to appreciate it are more or less right. The AWA was a decent regional promotion, but it never achieved national status like the WWF on the USA Network or the NWA did on TBS. Sure, they were around on select stations, but you could watch the NWA and WWF anywhere in the country that had cable, and by the time the AWA made it to E$PN, they were already dying. Verne Gagne stubbornly refused to accept that the times were changing, that in order to survive, he must adapt. He didn't. The AWA simply didn't have the same TV presence that the WWF and NWA had. The AWA wasn't crap, but it was just too old school to survive in the new wrestling world Vince McMahon was creating.

So we are the same age and probaly watched this at the same time frames. My problem is not here, its with half the "old school" board judging a company thhat existed when there parents probalt weren't even married.