Why don't wrestlers kayfabe anymore?

[hitmanhart]

I was surfing the net and came to a realization: the wrestlers of today no longer kayfabe like they did in the past. Back in the early 90s, wrestlers who were 'opposing' each other wouldn't even walk to the arena together. Bret Hart talks about this a lot.

However, nowadays, you see wrestlers in rivalries leaving the arena together, pictures posted by wrestlers themselves on things like Twitter, FB, etc.. partying it up with others etc..

I'm an older fan now, I'm not 12 and no longer 'believe' the wrestlers hated each other like I did as a kid growing up. But that's not to say that wrestlers shouldn't kayfabe now for the younger generation and still, even me. It's neat to see wrestlers take their hatred for each other outside the squared circle.


Your thoughts? Discuss.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I am probably one of the biggest proponents of kayfabe being dropped out there. Why? Let me revert to the age old catchphrase of the IWC ... "because it is insulting to my intelligence".

I think it is important these days for kids to be taught while they are young that wrestling is a form of entertainment and not a sport. Kids emulate wrestlers. If they see someone getting attacked with a chair, and they think it's real ... then essentially a child's mentality is because they saw it on TV, then it is A okay to do in real life. However, if a kid is taught that what they are seeing is simply like a TV show or a movie, and that it is not real .... then they know better and were able to catch on while they are young.

Smartening kids up while they are younger will give them an added appreciation of the business as they grow older, and will allow them to view it in a different light. That way, they won't have to worry about getting in real vs fake arguments with their friends and can more closely articulate more intelligent reasons why they follow wrestling at an earlier age, as well, since it is fake.

Aside from the kids, why would the adults want to see this, when it is clearly insulting to an adult's intelligence? Adults are the majority of the audience.

In my opinion, kayfabe should last from the start of the show until the end of the show. That's it.

Anything else done in the Media such as interviews on TV/Radio, wrestlers appearing in public, etc., kayfabe should be dropped completely. And that is imperative for the general public so that they know that WWE is not presenting their product as "real". Rather, they are presenting it as an Athletic Entertainment Action/Drama program, and therefore "not trying to pull the wool over anyone's heads". They will have far better relations in the Media presenting it that way, as opposed to presenting themselves in a kayfabe manner in the Media.

I'm also pretty sure that more Hollywood celebrities would be more likely to be associated with the company if kayfabe was dropped in public, as opposed to the company still trying to pretend like it's 1980. Hollywood celebrities don't like being associated with low-brow entertainment, so if the company can present itself in a more positive light and be honest with the public about what it is that they do, ultimately the more respect they will have.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

It seems that the direction of the WWE is moving away from the area of kayfabe & into a new generation of wrestling. This is the whole purpose of the PG era at the moment. The WWE are focusing more on the entertainment factor moreso than the actual wrestling details such as kayfabe. With the addition of signing 'hollywood writers' for the business, it seems that 'reality' is the hot flavour of wrestling terms with kayfabe being tossed to the kerb. I believe, for one, that this is a good thing as it allows the wrestlers of today to create their own niches as wrestlers much easier to co-incide with the entertainment perspective of the business. Reality mixed with a wrestling focus is known as amateur wrestling, however reality mixed with entertainment is not so much.

If you may have noticed, the two DX reformations with the HHH/HBK team have been burying the term kayfabe into the ground for comedic purposes. One very recent example is how Shawn was called Hickenbottom from the manager of the restaurant during his Chef skits alongside HHH.

 

[cwheathman]

I miss the kayfabe style of wrestling. I'm 30yrs old now, and still want to "believe" the fueds and the characters on TV. I loved cheering the good guy for everything they stood for when I was a kid. Now, I love cheering the bad guys because they're everything I know I couldn't be. Now more than ever, I think the WWE needs to bring back kayfabe. Let's refocus the product of the wrestler and theirs stories and not on the "formula" that WWE is trying to use to create new stars.

 

[Chill]

I think it's just a case of people smarting up and understanding that pro wrestling is scripted and that it is a work at the end of the day. If Kane, for example, were to go on and do a TV interview in character then as Lord Sidious pointed out, it would almost be 'insulting to people's intellignece'. Personally, I've listened to many interviews with Glen Jacobs NOT Kane and if I'm being honest that's the way I like it because it allows the wrestlers to come out and have candid converstations about what they do.

I think it's also to do with the fact that the business itself has changed over the years...at first it was all hush hush and top secret but now they appear to be far more open and with developments in the media, internet and so on it is difficult to keep something like kayfabe alive (even if WWE and other promotions wanted to). As has been mentioned, WWE now openly admit on their television shows at times that they are a form of entertainment...whether that be through DX taking the piss or their 'don't try this at home videos' which openly admit wrestling is entertainment. Even their name has entertainment in it, they are basically saying 'we are entertainment'.

Or just log onto WWE.com and they have entire sections outlining the role of Creative and how their business is centred around putting characters in 'compelling' storylines and so on. I for one don't really feel the demise of kayfabe is ruining wrestling....at the end of the day, I've known for a good while now that it is not 'real' so to speak and because of that I've been having to suspend my disbelief for years now and I'm fine with that and I can easily do it because I know it's entertainment.

Kayfabe is not totally dead and buried, I think it will always exist to a certain degree (by in large, the TV shows still operate under the illusion that it is 'real')...it's not like WWE are openly coming out and telling us their plans or what's going to happen in the latest storyline, but without a doubt pro wrestling in general appears to be far more accessable than it has ever been.

 

[JenovasWitness]

There is no need to protect the business any longer. With the invention of the internet and the admission of Vince McMahon that wrestling is in fact "entertainment", the wrestlers don't need to "lie" to people about it any longer. So there would really be no point to it.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

I will answer this question by saying that it all depends on how you look at the term "kayfabe", and you would classify someone as breaking it. When I first became a WWE fan in 2003, I heard everybody criticizing me for watching something that was... "fake". I heard all of that but at 9 years old, I didn't have internet, I didn't know what was real and what was fake... I couldn't back myself up.

That was until I was about 11. My mom bought me this video tape. I thought it was actually wrestling with superstars, you know... wrestling! But it was titled, "Wrestling's Biggest Secrets Revealed". It taught me about juicing/blading, how the backbreaker is done, the legdrop, crossbody, and a whole bunch of other stuff. That really did not effect how I looked at wrestling until around 2007. That's when I started to notice things during a match that I never noticed before, and I felt it was kinda cool... I felt like I was part of the business, although I would need to learn so much more.

As for kayfabe, breaking it can cause me to get a little annoyed, although at any times, I find it to be very entertaining. Fueds that break kayfabe and bring in someone's personal life into it makes it seem more like a fued, which I like. Some examples of that include the 2006 fued between Ric Flair and Mick Foley. It was actually real-life, it was partly based on each of their books, and they really hated each other... the intensity was awesome! Also the Hardys fued that occured broke kayfave. It included Jeff's drug problems, his burned down house (although it was on WWE.com), the death of his dog... all personal.

However, the one thing about breaking kayfabe that I hate would have to be heel/face turns. I understand that WWE has to change a superstar sometimes but I hate to see a face-turned-heel become friends with a heel that they made a career on fueding with, or vice versa. A good example would be Kane. He was a face until mid-2008, but when he turned heel, WWE made him team up with M.V.P. We all know about their late-2007 fued where Kane set MVP on fire. If I were in creative or M.V.P. himself, I would not have them team ever, and I would not forgive some monster who caused me to have 3rd degree burns on my back. Same with Matt Hardy and Edge. Matt turned heel and during a 10-man tag match where he had 3 other partners to tag in, but chose edge, despite the long fued they had over Lita and whatnot. Also, John Morrison. He teamed with Cryme Tyme with any problems. Remember that Dirt Sheet vs. Word Up fued that occured during the closing part of 2008?

So, yeah... I wonder why WWE doesn't allow things to seem a little more real, even if we all know it's entertainment. Some storylines were never meant to be broken, but knowing WWE, they make bad decisions all the time.

 

[Doctor_What]

1 thing I do know that happens I have winessed it 1st hand. The wrestlers when they come to the UK use 2 coaches. Coach B for babyfaces and coach H for heels

 

[Suneeboy]

Wrestlers don't kayfabe anymore for the same reasons why hollywood actors don't kayfabe. Its all fake, its all entertainment, and they are playing roles. They don't really hate each other, and its not real, its all a work. Makes wrestling a more credible form of entertainment when you look at it from that perspective.

 

[MrCharisma]

exactly suneeboy, we don't see tom cruise running around the streets of hollywood with a gun and explosions for the same reason, its not real its a performance and a show. Their kayfabe is on the show during their promos reactions during matches and all that, off the side let them live their lives and be friends and not have to worry about kane kidnapping them

 

[Slam Master]

Vince had been calling the WWF "sports entertainment" since the mid-80s so that was never the issue. The Montreal Screwjob caused kayfabe to fade for a few reasons. The most important is that the screwjob happened right as the internet was blowing up and becoming a way of life. After that night, you had all these reports of what was "supposed to happen" and that "Bret and Shawn really had hatred for each other" off-camera. Then you had the articles that were written in the wrestling mags, specifically Dave Meltzer's..Any fan old enough knows that its scripted and somewhat choreographed but it was never blatently admitted that the outcomes of matches were pre-planned until that night.

 

[Leo Naudin]

Vince had been calling the WWF "sports entertainment" since the mid-80s so that was never the issue. The Montreal Screwjob caused kayfabe to fade for a few reasons. The most important is that the screwjob happened right as the internet was blowing up and becoming a way of life. After that night, you had all these reports of what was "supposed to happen" and that "Bret and Shawn really had hatred for each other" off-camera. Then you had the articles that were written in the wrestling mags, specifically Dave Meltzer's..Any fan old enough knows that its scripted and somewhat choreographed but it was never blatantly admitted that the outcomes of matches were pre-planned until that night.

I was starting to smarten up after I bought the first ever wrestlemania collectors set with all the manias in there, and noticed that the "good guys" always won in the main event. (At least until wrestlemania 2000 I lost money on mick foley not winning the title) It wasn't until Bret Harts "wrestling with shadows" documentary came out and I saw Pat Patterson booking matches that Kayfabe died for me. but funny thing is The wrestlers at the time were so good at what they do and booking was so creative that it still mattered to me whether they won or lost. That doesn't happen now

Therefore it doesn't matter whether they brake Kayfabe or not. I feel until they liven up their product creative wise. It's all going to seem like another predictable WWE storyline.

 

[Wrath]

The biggest reason is now everyone even some kids know wrestling is scripted and not a legimate sport. Back in the day majority of people thought wrestling was real and that was the direction WWE went. Even the style of matches have changed. Back in the day wrestling matches was supposed be real so wrestlers worked as they were competing in a real fight but right now there are too many flashy moves and spots that people can't accept as real. So there is no need to insult people's logic people know Jericho is a nice guy outside of the ring so why does he need to keep his gimmick outside of WWE ?

 

[Tastycles]

Put simply, it would be ridiculous for wrestlers to kayfabe. Nobody in the western world thinks wrestling is real, except for some kids, who in all honesty are unlikely to go on the internet and find a shoot interview. Kayfabing is a ridiculous thing to do when nobody believes it, you don't see Tobey Maguire trying to swing off buildings so that the fans don't stop thinking that he is Spiderman. You don't see Tom Hanks shooting Germans, you don't see Daniel Ratcliffe casting spells. This is because they are actors, which is essentially all a wrestler is.

 

[Highway Boots]

Wrestlers do kayfabe but the rules have changed because of the influx of wrestling boards such as this. They lifted the stigma of realism a bit because people discovered that the outcomes are pre planned. However, there are still real injuries that occur which should tell anyone with a half a brain that it isn't fake.

Kayfabe is used in different ways now days such as a wrestler giving the illusion he is happy with the company he works for to the public but in reality, can't stand it and wants out. It is also used to help wrestlers keep their personal life separate from their ring life such as (but not limited to) using stage names (the names behind the character names) like you all think (because he wants you to) that Jesse Ventura's real name is "Jesse Ventura" when in actuality it is James Janos. There are some modern examples such as Randy Orton using his middle name as his first name as his birth name is Robert but you may have a hard time with it because he has Kayfabed the world!

Kayfabe is also used in matches because even though you know the ending is scripted, when was the last time you definitively knew who would win (not just an educated guess) before the match even started? or what high spots would be utilized before the match. The wrestlers know these things but we fans are kayfabed until we witness it.

If Kayfabe didn't exist we'd have every completed Raw script in our hands before the show even airs and we would've known that The Miz was going to call out Cena his first night after the draft. We also would have seen Donald Trump selling Raw back to Vince the same night he supposedly bought it. We'd also know exactly what is going to happen tomorrow at Summerslam such as who wins and what surprises they have in store.

Kayfabe also exists when you talk to wrestlers because there are certain things the general public doesn't need to know such as how much a performer gets paid.

Yes, Kayfabe is alive and well but the rules have changed due to the dirt sheets and the internet

 

[absent]

As a kid I began to question the reality of wrestling in the 80s when I started to think about wrestling talent scouts walking into barder shops and asking the hairdresser "do you want to fight in a wrestling match?" Even as a child that seemed like a ludicrous concept.

But I still watched wrestling all my life, the fact that after a few years I no longer could believe it was real didn't matter. Come my teenage years and the Michaels/Ramone ladder match even the most piss-taking of friends liked watching that match when I made them watch the tape.

For me the last moment of doubt as to what I was watching was scripted or not was the early attitude era and early NWO stuff. By then kayfabe had been totally broken, you knew it was nothing but a TV show and wrestling was a work but with it being live it was one of those moments like the Sex Pistols doing a live interview. Is this really supposed to be happening? Are they sticking to script or have they taken liberties being on live TV? Shawn Michaels holding the show "hostage" over a TV break and refusing to get off screen, Hall/Nash going into the production area. That combination of admitting it's a TV show, yet breaking the rules of being on a TV show, that was the last time kayfabe was alive for me.

I suppose the WWE have fooled the mainstream press a few times in the past years with the death of Vince and Trump and such, but to those familiar with wrestling, I doubt many were fooled.