Why Carlos Condit Deserves Our Respect

[Turd Ferguson]

So, in the fallout of UFC 143, a lot of people are upset over the Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz result. I'm a huge fan of both guys, had picked Diaz to win by Decision, and was rooting for Diaz throughout the entire fight. I had scored it 48-47 for Condit. Even though the fight was close, I believed that Condit established his gameplan to perfection, and that earned him the victory. Yet, in the fallout of the fight, Condit is receiving a lot of criticism over how he won.

Nick Diaz has very few holes in his game. One of the holes he has is that he does not check leg kicks and is willing to eat them (as seen in the Cyborg fight). Also, Diaz rarely deviates from his gameplan, and honestly, why should he, when it works so well? Diaz will force you against the cage and bully you, and once he gets you in that position, he's unbeatable. And if the going gets tough for Nick, he'll start up the trash talking to try to get the mental edge and force you to fight his fight.

Carlos Condit deserves all the credit in the world for executing his gameplan to perfection. People wanted to see a stand-and-bang fight between the two, and I think that's where some of the anger people have for the way Carlos fought stems from. Carlos used leg kicks (much like male Cyborg blueprinted as one of Diaz's weaknesses), and used basic footwork to circle out. He also traded with Nick every time he circled out. It's worth noting that Condit had the major edge in significant strikes (151-105), and still landed a total of 91 shots between the head and body... he didn't just use leg kicks, he evenly distributed his offense.

And honestly, what was Carlos supposed to do? If he got into a bar room brawl with Nick, we'd be talking about Nick Diaz vs. GSP this morning. It seems that people are irritated that he didn't hang against the cage to bang with Diaz, which would have lost him the fight. Carlos stayed away from the cage, and executed his gameplan. He was mentally strong enough to not take Nick's bait with the trash talking, and even more impressive, like Nick, he could have gone another five rounds. Condit's cardio being as good as Nick's was something nobody accounted for. If Nick was the best boxer in MMA, he would have adjusted to Carlos using basic boxing footwork to evade his strikes. Furthermore, Carlos was looking for the knockout. Look at the spinning backfists/elbows he threw, and the flying knees he threw. You just cannot knock Nick Diaz out.

Beautiful fight from Carlos Condit. He is absolutely deserving of the Interim Welterweight Title this morning, and he absolutely deserves everyone's respect.

 

[jmt225]

What rubs me the wrong way about it is how these fighters promise and promise that they're going to knock so-and-so out and finish them, and then come fight time, they hop on their bicycle or hold on to somebody for 15/25 minutes. People do not want to pay money to watch something like that.

I'm not saying Condit should have given his gameplan away, but he basically false advertised for a month. That's just so lame.

I'm also not saying Condit should have stayed in the pocket and banged with Diaz, but at least look for something. Or if you're going to stick with leg and body kicks the whole fight, at least through some hard ones. Insignificant strikes should not count in this damn sport, or in boxing for that matter.

I really started to like Condit during the Primetime episodes. He is a good dude, no doubt about it. But regardless... he didn't deserve to win that fight last night. Every single one of his strikes were insignificant (and this is with Nick Diaz where all you have to do is touch an eyebrow and he'll start bleeding all over the place), and Diaz was by far the aggressor, landed some good shots, and was in control of the fight for at least 3 of those 5 rounds.

But whatever. I think we'll end up seeing a rematch sometime early this Summer, and then we'll see who the better fighter truly is.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I think people are unfairly criticizing Carlos to a degree. Just because Condit's strategy was to be "on his horse", doesn't mean he was "running". Nick will come forward at all times and wants to close a fighter in near the cage to unleash almost unmatched flurries of punches. All Carlos did was attempt to lands shots(mostly successfully) as he was being backed up, then circle away before you get caught in a comprimising position. Rinse and repeat.

The strategy worked perfectly, and you really have to commend him for being able to keep up with the strategy the entire five rounds without appearing to gas at all. Both of these guy's cardio prowess was on full display all night.

Also Carlos landed a nearly identical amount of head shots- 62-55 for Diaz, or 12.4/round average to Condit's 11/round average, a factor that many who are taking this "all Condit did was run and leg kick" thing a little far(granted this may due to the fact that alot of Nick's strikes to the head stand out because of the amount of huge lefts he landed square on Condit's grill).

Either way the fight was close- as I said in the official thread for the card, I thought Condit probably won the third and he clearly won the fourth, I think Diaz surely took the last. To me, the first two were toss-ups.

Kudos to Condit for executing his gameplan for 25 minutes and getting a decision. Tough night to be a judge, but no decision would have been necesarily "wrong".

 

[Fizzy]

Carlos had a gameplan and he stuck with it. He knew he was faster and more athletic than Diaz and he used that to circle away from Diaz's attacks. Diaz wanted to hold Condit against the fence and unload and Condit didn't let him. I respect Condit for that, but like JMT said, he did say he was going to have a war with Diaz, all week he said this. He did exactly what Anthony Johnson did to Dan Hardy for their fight. I don't agree with the tactic, but it seems to work.

Diaz needs to work on cutting off the octagon better. Condit was to fast for him and Diaz looked lost when he couldn't hold Condit against the cage. Imagine what GSP, a better, faster athlete than Condit would do. Diaz also needs to have a plan B. He was obviously better on the ground than Condit, he should have tried harder to take the fight there. He has one gameplan and he'll stick to that through and through. If Diaz fixes these two things, it'll be hard to find someone able to beat him.

At the end of the day, I was entertained by the fight. I didn't care that Condit "ran away" from Diaz. I thought it was a good fight. Condit hit Diaz with some nice headkicks and punches and Diaz unloaded a few times on Condit as well. I think Diaz has a better chance to finish Condit in a rematch than Condit has to finish Diaz, he seemed to hurt Condit on multiple occasions. Hopefully there is a rematch if Nick decided to come back

 

[BaconBits]

Carlos didn't get lulled into a brawl like most of Nick's recent opponents. Nick's striking isn't as quality as most will have you believe, especially on the defensive end. His footwork and head movement is beyond God-awful. Condit and Jackson knew that going in and capitalized on it. Condit is unfairly receiving criticism for being the immensely smarter fighter.

He wasn't going to be "that dude" who beats the shit out of Nick for a round or two, then gasses and loses. I mean, think about Nick's last few fights before this one. BJ lumped Nick up for a round and change, then gassed. Paul Daley beat the shit out of Nick, then gassed. The very mediocre Cyborg was beating that ass (with mostly legs kicks, BTW) for almost two rounds, then gassed.

Condit wasn't going to stand there and get pummeled like everybody else. He stuck and moved, which is very much unfairly being called running, and was throwing much, much cleaner combos when he was circling. That Left hook, Left leg kick, right headkick combination he threw as one of the sickest in mma history.

Diaz lives and dies by volume punching, and Carlos very, very effectively eliminated that and Nick couldn't adjust.

Carlos Condit is simply a better fighter than Nick Diaz. That's all there is to it.

 

[jmt225]

Carlos Condit is simply a better fighter than Nick Diaz. That's all there is to it.

Lol... that's such a false statement. Let's take away time limits... who walks out of that cage consciously Saturday? Nick Diaz, and there's no debating it.

Besides, Diaz won that fight when you truly break it down by American MMA judging criteria (he also would have won it with Japanese rules, too). You look at Fight Metric, it's clear as day even though they still for some ******ed reason gave the W to Condit. Look at Round 1 specifically though; that's the toss up round. Total Strikes for Condit was 30, while Nick had 28. However, over half of those 30 strikes for Condit were, as Nick put it, "baby leg kicks" that caused no damage whatsoever, while Diaz's shots were punches to the head and body. And then when you factor in the fact that Nick was the aggressor and had octagon control, he wins the round. There's absolutely no arguing it.

And then the rest is simple... Diaz clearly won round 2, Condit clearly won rounds 3 and 4, and Diaz clearly won round 5. So, by American MMA judging, Nick Diaz should have won that fight. Only a pure Nick Diaz hater would argue it when you truly break it all down.

Lastly, I want to address your footwork statement... Condit did not show good footwork. He fucking ran around, and since the cage is so damn big, it was pretty much impossible for Nick to cut him off like he would have been able to in a ring. Do you really think Condit's strategy even comes close to working in a ring? Of course it wouldn't, yet you want to call him a better fighter than Diaz? Ridiculous.

That's running, period. If Diaz fought exactly the same way as Condit and Condit was the one supplying the pressure, then Diaz haters would be having a field day calling him a bitch (like they are now), and Diaz fans would be highly upset with his performance. Moreover, if Diaz had fought like Condit and Condit fought like he did Saturday, the fight would have been one of the worst in history, and nobody would be defending either's actions. Diaz made that a fight, bottom line.

I will say Diaz could have done a better job adjusting. Those weak fucking leg and body kicks Condit was throwing... all Diaz had to do was catch one and trip him down. He could have easily done it over and over again. If there's a rematch like there should be, Diaz will do better than he did and then we'll see who truly is the "better fighter."

 

[BaconBits]

Lol... that's such a false statement. Let's take away time limits... who walks out of that cage consciously Saturday? Nick Diaz, and there's no debating it.

Besides, Diaz won that fight when you truly break it down by American MMA judging criteria (he also would have won it with Japanese rules, too). You look at Fight Metric, it's clear as day even though they still for some ******ed reason gave the W to Condit. Look at Round 1 specifically though; that's the toss up round. Total Strikes for Condit was 30, while Nick had 28. However, over half of those 30 strikes for Condit were, as Nick put it, "baby leg kicks" that caused no damage whatsoever, while Diaz's shots were punches to the head and body. And then when you factor in the fact that Nick was the aggressor and had octagon control, he wins the round. There's absolutely no arguing it.

And then the rest is simple... Diaz clearly won round 2, Condit clearly won rounds 3 and 4, and Diaz clearly won round 5. So, by American MMA judging, Nick Diaz should have won that fight. Only a pure Nick Diaz hater would argue it when you truly break it all down.

Lastly, I want to address your footwork statement... Condit did not show good footwork. He fucking ran around, and since the cage is so damn big, it was pretty much impossible for Nick to cut him off like he would have been able to in a ring. Do you really think Condit's strategy even comes close to working in a ring? Of course it wouldn't, yet you want to call him a better fighter than Diaz? Ridiculous.

That's running, period. If Diaz fought exactly the same way as Condit and Condit was the one supplying the pressure, then Diaz haters would be having a field day calling him a bitch (like they are now), and Diaz fans would be highly upset with his performance. Moreover, if Diaz had fought like Condit and Condit fought like he did Saturday, the fight would have been one of the worst in history, and nobody would be defending either's actions. Diaz made that a fight, bottom line.

I will say Diaz could have done a better job adjusting. Those weak fucking leg and body kicks Condit was throwing... all Diaz had to do was catch one and trip him down. He could have easily done it over and over again. If there's a rematch like there should be, Diaz will do better than he did and then we'll see who truly is the "better fighter."

I'm not so sure you understand footwork. Nick was totally unable to cut the cage off and his angles were just off the entire fight. Hence, his octagon control wasn't as dominant as many armchair observers believe. If Carlos was able to avoid being hit with consistency, he was not being controlled.

The GIF you used to illustrate your point kind of makes mine for me. Diaz's angle coming in wasn't quite right and he left a lot of room to his left for an escape. Carlos throws the headkick and goes to move out to his right, and instead of Diaz stepping to his left to cut off the escape, he turns his body before his feet the opposite way and lets Condit reset cleanly. Not to mention, on the way out, Condit was able to land a straight right. If Diaz steps to his left to cut off the escape, Condit has to go back to his left, and Nick would have been able to answer that with a lead right hook, probably followed by a straight left as Condit has to circle out to his right again after being cut off. Cage, ring, doesn't really matter, Nick muffed it by stepping in the wrong direction right off the bat.

Condit was circling to Diaz's power all night, and Diaz wasn't able to capitalize on it, because Condit was just slicker with his movement. Condit's movements have been categorized as running by many observers, the fact was he wasn't really running, he was effectively circling out, but exaggerating it quite bit to reset. It didn't help Nick's case that Condit was much, much faster than Nick anticipated.

Was Nick more aggressive? Absolutely. Thing is, if the aggression isn't amounting to much, you can't really score it for him. For instance, going for takedown after takedown is being aggressive, but if they're all stuffed you're not winning (see Evans vs. Davis a couple weeks back). So if you're pressing forward the whole time, but not landing consistently you can't really score it.

Carlos was the far more intelligent fighter, hence the better fighter. Nick is unable/unwilling to adjust/progress his game to compete with a guy who is unwilling to brawl with him.

As far as the "false" advertising Condit did, anybody who understands mma knows to brawl with Diaz likely means a loss. He was merely hyping a fight. it happens all the time. It's no different than Chael Sonnen calling himself the best fighter in the world and how he beats everybody's ass, yet he goes out and consistently dry humps his opponents.

I'd take Condit 9-10 times out of 10 against Nick Diaz. It's simply a bad matchup for him. Here's why, his bad footwork tendencies aren't about to change. He's been doing the same thing for years.

I think Diaz is a great fighter, I really do, but his game has limitations that hadn't really come to light until his opponent was unwilling to get in the brawl that Diaz so desires.

Nick also has a little Jorge Gurgel syndrome. Unbelievable jitz than he's unwilling to use anymore. Had he tried to take the fight to the ground more, his chances to win the fight go up exponentially, but he'd rather stand and trade because he fancies himself a boxer without deficiencies.

 

[JWGunslinger]

So, in the fallout of UFC 143, a lot of people are upset over the Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz result. I'm a huge fan of both guys, had picked Diaz to win by Decision, and was rooting for Diaz throughout the entire fight. I had scored it 48-47 for Condit. Even though the fight was close, I believed that Condit established his gameplan to perfection, and that earned him the victory. Yet, in the fallout of the fight, Condit is receiving a lot of criticism over how he won.

Nick Diaz has very few holes in his game. One of the holes he has is that he does not check leg kicks and is willing to eat them (as seen in the Cyborg fight). Also, Diaz rarely deviates from his gameplan, and honestly, why should he, when it works so well? Diaz will force you against the cage and bully you, and once he gets you in that position, he's unbeatable. And if the going gets tough for Nick, he'll start up the trash talking to try to get the mental edge and force you to fight his fight.

Carlos Condit deserves all the credit in the world for executing his gameplan to perfection. People wanted to see a stand-and-bang fight between the two, and I think that's where some of the anger people have for the way Carlos fought stems from. Carlos used leg kicks (much like male Cyborg blueprinted as one of Diaz's weaknesses), and used basic footwork to circle out. He also traded with Nick every time he circled out. It's worth noting that Condit had the major edge in significant strikes (151-105), and still landed a total of 91 shots between the head and body... he didn't just use leg kicks, he evenly distributed his offense.

And honestly, what was Carlos supposed to do? If he got into a bar room brawl with Nick, we'd be talking about Nick Diaz vs. GSP this morning. It seems that people are irritated that he didn't hang against the cage to bang with Diaz, which would have lost him the fight. Carlos stayed away from the cage, and executed his gameplan. He was mentally strong enough to not take Nick's bait with the trash talking, and even more impressive, like Nick, he could have gone another five rounds. Condit's cardio being as good as Nick's was something nobody accounted for. If Nick was the best boxer in MMA, he would have adjusted to Carlos using basic boxing footwork to evade his strikes. Furthermore, Carlos was looking for the knockout. Look at the spinning backfists/elbows he threw, and the flying knees he threw. You just cannot knock Nick Diaz out.

Beautiful fight from Carlos Condit. He is absolutely deserving of the Interim Welterweight Title this morning, and he absolutely deserves everyone's respect.

I could not agree more, as I said before this fight I am a fan of both guys and I feel bad for Nick but there is nothing to get mad at Condit over. He fought a smart fight but he didn't wrestlefuck him or just hold him against the cage, he was active, elusive and on top of that he landed more and did more damage. Sure you can be frustrated that he didn't stand toe to toe with nick and just bang but he probably would have lost if he did that, he didn't play into Nick's game/strengths and that was smart of him. I had Condit winning but had it much closer than the judges claimed, and I would be open to a rematch because it was a great fight, but I can't stand how much flack that Carlos is getting, he didn't do anything wrong, he fought a great fight and tried to finish but he wasn't in there fighting a chump and all I can hope is that he shuts everyone up in the rematch. I was split on this one but because they'll discount this win if Carlos loses the rematch I am 100 percent behind him next time.

 

[DJ Kyo]

Let me put this plain and simple. If you're mad when you lose and you left it in the hand of the judges, you should not be an MMA fighter. From what Diaz says, he doesn't want to be anymore anyway.

Did Condit fight like a little btich? Of course he did. Did it get him the win? Sure. Does he deserve to win? Probably not. That is what happens though in these types of fights. I love GSP as a fighter, but he lets his fights go the distance as well. All of these guys have more capability than what they show a lot of the time. It's not like they are beating up on an immoveable object like Big Country. With the right kicks, hits, takedowns, etc.. every last one of the lighter weight classes can take each other out. There's just far too much "dancing" by both sides and it's something that should change.

 

[jmt225]

BaconBits... check your rep. I just want to address this part of your post:

I'd take Condit 9-10 times out of 10 against Nick Diaz. It's simply a bad matchup for him. Here's why, his bad footwork tendencies aren't about to change. He's been doing the same thing for years.

A fighter can evolve at any time, including Nick Diaz. Hell, look at Fedor's last 2 fights. He's a completely different fighter and it's because of his losses. Werdum is another great example after what we saw from him against Roy Nelson.

Now, if there is a rematch between Diaz and Condit and the fight goes exactly how it went Saturday... then yeah, there's no more defending Diaz on my part. But, that shouldn't happen. Not only is Diaz an incredible boxer, but he's extremely intelligent and a top 5 BJJ practitioner in the entire sport. He'd come out with a different strategy in a rematch and do much better, especially if Condit fought the same fight he did Saturday. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.

Let me put this plain and simple. If you're mad when you lose and you left it in the hand of the judges, you should not be an MMA fighter.

I hate it when fans and Dana White says this. You can't force a finish... these guys are professionals at what they do, and the best of the best are going to be hard to put away and you will not be able to do it every single time.

Diaz could have done better, yes, but still... the "leave into the hands of the judges" argument is false and weak. I guess Werdum shouldn't be praised for his performance because he didn't finish Nelson, huh? No, he beat Roy's ass like we've never seen done before, and Roy simply could not be put away. How is that Werdum's fault? It's not, just like it's not Diaz's fault that he couldn't finish Condit. Not only is Condit a tough motherfucker who's only been finished 3 times in his 10 year career (all of which happened in 2006 and before), but with the way Condit fought, it was damn near impossible to finish him. Like I said, Diaz should have caught those leg and body kicks and took Condit down (and even then Condit is such a good scrambler that it would have been extremely hard for Diaz to keep him down after he took him down), but besides that... there was no way Diaz could have landed a hail mary punch on Condit to knock him out. No way. Diaz could have done a better job to ensure the decision victory, but finish Condit? That's asking for a little too much considering how tough and good Condit is and for how the way he fought on Saturday.

 

[BaconBits]

A fighter can evolve at any time, including Nick Diaz. Hell, look at Fedor's last 2 fights. He's a completely different fighter and it's because of his losses. Werdum is another great example after what we saw from him against Roy Nelson.

I don't disagree that fighter can change. However, Nick Diaz is a special case. He hasn't really changed in years, even after losses. His boxing is an absolute mess defensively, and I fear his bad habits are too ingrained in him to change. His boxing style is the same from fight to fight and he'd have a whole pile of losses if he didn't have such an iron chin.

At this point, I think a camp change would be good for him. It's quite apparent his mma striking training is almost exclusively boxing. That doesn't cut it in mma. He needs more muay thai/kickboxing to deal with the kind of attack came at him on Saturday. I absolutely despise this term, but Diaz was exposed on Saturday. It happens to everybody at some time or another.

Thing is, I believe Nick lacks the focus to reinvent himself. I hope, for his sake, that he does, because I rather enjoy watching him fight.

 

[jmt225]

His boxing is an absolute mess defensively, and I fear his bad habits are too ingrained in him to change. His boxing style is the same from fight to fight and he'd have a whole pile of losses if he didn't have such an iron chin.

See, I disagree with this. You can talk about his footwork, but that's because Diaz simply isn't very athletic. You have to have a certain amount of athleticism to have good footwork, and unfortunately Diaz just doesn't have that (he's probably flat footed). But for what he lacks in footwork, he makes up for with his accurate punching, and yes, I'm going to say it: head movement. His head movement is extremely underrated. He gets clipped here and there, but it's usually just once a fight; for the most part he does a good job of slipping punches and protecting himself. It's very subtle, though. He doesn't do flashy bobbing and weaving; he simply just makes enough head movement to make his opponent miss and be able to counter with multiple punches.

At this point, I think a camp change would be good for him. It's quite apparent his mma striking training is almost exclusively boxing. That doesn't cut it in mma. He needs more muay thai/kickboxing to deal with the kind of attack came at him on Saturday. I absolutely despise this term, but Diaz was exposed on Saturday. It happens to everybody at some time or another.

Could not disagree more. Look at his teammate Gilbert Melendez... he's probably in the top 3 in MMA when it comes to game planning and carrying it out. Jake Shields has terrific wrestling to work with Nick. And Nick works with the best boxers and muay thai fighters in the World. If he were to fight Condit again, I'm sure Cesar would bring in someone to train with Nick that fits Condit's style. Cesar is great about bringing in new guys for his fighters to train with.

Thing is, I believe Nick lacks the focus to reinvent himself. I hope, for his sake, that he does, because I rather enjoy watching him fight.

I think it's an indisputable fact that Nick is the hardest worker in MMA, so I completely disagree with you saying there's a lack of focus from Nick Diaz. He works way too hard in every area of the sport to lack any focus.

 

[Toxs]

I don't see why he DESERVES respect.

He fought a smart fight and did what he had to do to win. That doesn't mean he deserves props for putting on pretty boring fight.

He would've earned my respect if he out boxed/grappled Diaz instead of just outrunning him.

 

[BaconBits]

See, I disagree with this. You can talk about his footwork, but that's because Diaz simply isn't very athletic. You have to have a certain amount of athleticism to have good footwork, and unfortunately Diaz just doesn't have that (he's probably flat footed). But for what he lacks in footwork, he makes up for with his accurate punching, and yes, I'm going to say it: head movement. His head movement is extremely underrated. He gets clipped here and there, but it's usually just once a fight; for the most part he does a good job of slipping punches and protecting himself. It's very subtle, though. He doesn't do flashy bobbing and weaving; he simply just makes enough head movement to make his opponent miss and be able to counter with multiple punches.

His footwork also leads to him not having more pop on his punches. For instance, in the GIF you used to illustrate your point, notice how he squares up? That takes most of the torque out of your punches because you can't roll the punch over through your hips. They become arm punches. He generally throws a ton of them, though, and it often overwhelms his opponents so he gets away with it.

You're giving way, way too much credit to his head movement. He gets hit, and hit a bunch in every fight. He almost always looks worse for the wear than his opponent, even when he wins. There's a reason he had surgery to repair scar tissue in his brow, man.

Could not disagree more. Look at his teammate Gilbert Melendez... he's probably in the top 3 in MMA when it comes to game planning and carrying it out. Jake Shields has terrific wrestling to work with Nick. And Nick works with the best boxers and muay thai fighters in the World. If he were to fight Condit again, I'm sure Cesar would bring in someone to train with Nick that fits Condit's style. Cesar is great about bringing in new guys for his fighters to train with.

Melendez is a top 3-5 fighter, no doubt, but we're not talking about Gilbert Melendez, we're talking about Nick Diaz. He doesn't have the same issues.

If Jake Shields' wrestling is so helpful with Nick, then why does Nick's wrestling still suck? I mean, he's got great takedown defense, I'll give you that, but his offense sucks bad. Watch his KJ Noons fights. And KJ is a boxer with little to no ground game.

He works with elite boxers like Andre Ward, yes, but he doesn't work boxing for mma with him, he works, boxing for, well, boxing. They're two different combat sports. Boxing doesn't take into account kicks/knees/takedowns.

If Nick was working with great Muay Thai practitioners, he wouldn't be so horrible at checking leg kicks and he would be more offensive with own kicks. His clinch would be stronger, too.

I think it's an indisputable fact that Nick is the hardest worker in MMA, so I completely disagree with you saying there's a lack of focus from Nick Diaz. He works way too hard in every area of the sport to lack any focus.

Hardest worker? No. Hardest Worker would include all the press/hype stuff that comes along with being a high profile main event fighter.

Nick talks all the time about becoming a pure boxer. That takes away from his focus on mma. He does nothing but complain about the business of mma. That takes away from his focus on the competitive part.

His cardio training is on point with the triathlons and what not. That's hardcore as hell and I respect him like crazy for that. As far as I know, he and Nate are the only two fighters that get into things like that.

It's hard to say that he works too hard in every area of the sport without being in the Gracie camp. I'll take your word for it though, but let me ask you a couple questions...

Why does his offensive wrestling still suck so bad?

How come he hasn't fixed the blatantly obvious problems in his striking defense?

How come his game hasn't had any new wrinkles in years?

 

[jmt225]

His footwork also leads to him not having more pop on his punches. For instance, in the GIF you used to illustrate your point, notice how he squares up? That takes most of the torque out of your punches because you can't roll the punch over through your hips. They become arm punches. He generally throws a ton of them, though, and it often overwhelms his opponents so he gets away with it.

Exactly. For what he lacks in something, he still finds a way to make it work just as well. He's an extremely intelligent fighter.

You're giving way, way too much credit to his head movement. He gets hit, and hit a bunch in every fight. He almost always looks worse for the wear than his opponent, even when he wins. There's a reason he had surgery to repair scar tissue in his brow, man.

Some people just cut easily, and Diaz is one of those people. I mean, look at the guy's face before the fight:

Look at those eyebrows, man. The simplest of punch will open cuts there, which is why it happens every fight. And that's not from years of abuse... we've seen fighters get hit way more than Diaz and not ever get cut. Diaz simply has bad skin (like Fedor). He made it to the finals of a Gracie BJJ Tournament a couple of years ago and he lost because a guy's shoulder graced his eyebrow, leading to a deep cut.

Like I said earlier, Diaz gets clipped about once a fight. But he doesn't take much more punishment than that. Even in the BJ fight he didn't get hit on the feet good once that I remember... it was from BJ's GnP when Diaz suffered his cuts.

Melendez is a top 3-5 fighter, no doubt, but we're not talking about Gilbert Melendez, we're talking about Nick Diaz. He doesn't have the same issues.

I was just using Gil to show that he's a great camp.

If Jake Shields' wrestling is so helpful with Nick, then why does Nick's wrestling still suck? I mean, he's got great takedown defense, I'll give you that, but his offense sucks bad. Watch his KJ Noons fights. And KJ is a boxer with little to no ground game.

Because Diaz isn't athletic and strong? I'm sure skillfully Diaz is a fine wrestler, but he's not quick, strong, or athletic. How could someone like that ever become a good wrestler? It's impossible. You look at all the "great" offensive wrestlers in MMA and they're all ripped to shreds, fighting in weight classes one or two sizes below their natural weight. Diaz is the exact opposite.

He works with elite boxers like Andre Ward, yes, but he doesn't work boxing for mma with him, he works, boxing for, well, boxing. They're two different combat sports. Boxing doesn't take into account kicks/knees/takedowns.

If Nick was working with great Muay Thai practitioners, he wouldn't be so horrible at checking leg kicks and he would be more offensive with own kicks. His clinch would be stronger, too.

http://mmainterviews.tv/2012/01/30/...-mulkey-in-preparation-for-condit-at-ufc-143/

Plus on Primetime they spent a few minutes talking about Diaz training Muay Thai.

Hardest worker? No. Hardest Worker would include all the press/hype stuff that comes along with being a high profile main event fighter.

Diaz does all that, though. He had one slip up and now people want to write him off as someone who pulls that kind of stuff all the time, which just isn't true.

Nick talks all the time about becoming a pure boxer.

No he doesn't. He talks about maybe one day going to boxing, but whenever you hear him interviewed about his training, boxing is only one of the many aspects he does to prepare for a fight.

That takes away from his focus on mma. He does nothing but complain about the business of mma. That takes away from his focus on the competitive part.

We haven't heard any bitching about the business part of MMA from Diaz lately though, have we? Obviously the UFC ponyed up the doe and Diaz now has nothing to bitch about. His complaining worked out for the best.

Why does his offensive wrestling still suck so bad?

I explained this above.

How come he hasn't fixed the blatantly obvious problems in his striking defense?

I don't think he has many problems. When you're having a stand-up battle, you're bound to get hit. Even Floyd Mayweather gets hit sometimes; it doesn't make him a bad defensive fighter, though. It's just with MMA it's much easier to notice since the gloves are so small.

How come his game hasn't had any new wrinkles in years?

He works with a Sambo coach and has extensive training in all kinds of martial arts, such as judo, karate, and even fucking Kata.

He knows what he's best at though, and that's his boxing and Jiu-Jitsu. It will always come back to that.

 

[BaconBits]

It comes down to this. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Here's one last point. I gurandamntee that if Nick comes back, he's getting fed a guy with poor cardio and a propensity for brawling. Somebody like Diego Sanchez or Thiago Alves.

Oh, and I believe Nate Diaz is quickly becoming the better Diaz brother. He's got some issues too, but he is way, way better at adjusting.

 

[TheWrassler]

Neither one really got their ass beat that bad. Not saying they didnt go at it...but their were 7 fighters that had gotten medical suspensions, neither of them being Diaz or Condit.

Nice to see their are a few posters that actually realize, never in this sport should you leave it to judges. The judges are just fans like me and you (who have a job we'd all kill for, ringside every event), who have an opinion of who they think won. The problem with UFC is they never go into detail as to where the points can, and do come from.

Anyone who comes on here and bashes either of the fighters, saying so and so should have won, your right they "should" have, so why didnt they?

Pre-fight I wanted Diaz to win, quite frankly because he was the fighter I was more familiar with. But a couple days before the fight, I youtubed Condits previous fights. That dude is a fuckin force to be reckon'd with.

Something nobody actually had mentioned was that condit got swept under the rug from the gsp fight, because Diaz has a big mouth. Condit was the more qualified contender, and I look forward to the showdown with GSP, because I think Condit could come away with another victory, and I know most people will come on the forums and bash him again, whats it take? What's it take for you guys to see Condit is champion material.

Diaz record is as stands 26-8, and Condit has a solid 28-5. Look at the records and past fights, the dude deserves some cred no doubt about it!

 

[Mr.IV]

Condit has an advanced case of GSPitis .he does not fight to win, he fights to not lose.
This is the reason GSp is labeled a boring fighter and CC is going down that same road.
I guarandamntee Condit vs GSP is one of the most boring fights of the year, with both men fighting defensively.

At least with Diaz, you have the chance of a knockout or sub because Diaz brings it.

Condit will get my respect when he decides to fight like a man instead of let the judges declare him a winner. Same with GSP.
This is why the WW division is one of the least popular. LW...they always try to finish.
LHW...Knockouts galore.
MW...Silva...nuff said

In summary, I am so glad I didnt spend sixty bucks to watch Condit V Diaz. If i wanted to watch a shirtless guy dance for half an hour, well my daughter probably has Step Up on dvd.