Who's the Greatest United States Champion?

[Tenta]

Can't believe this hasn't ever been done. I know, I checked, and went to the 2006 Archives to make sure. All I can is My God, how far we've grown in four years. That, and apparently in 2006, Slyfox let out THE greatest fart ever. So goes my need to find out these things.

It's a really simple question; in history we've always had someone deemed as The Greatest Intercontinental Champion of All The Times. Whether it's Honky, Santino, or.... Well, Honky, there's been someone that deemed themselves the greatest IC champion either. It happens so much, people rarely, if ever, pay attention to the United States title. It's quite sad, because the US Title has a legacy just as storied, and usually actually delivered better matches than it's Multi-Continental brother. So now the time comes to decide, who is the Greatest United States Champion of all time. Naturally, the best way O see to do this is via poll, so I'll place up four names, along with the obligatory "other" choice that is soon to come.

Harley Race- What better way to start off this list than the man who first won the title. This was the person decided to deal instant credibility to the belt, and it worked pretty damn well. Race was a pretty dominating force, taking on every and all challengers. Realistically, this was pretty much done, because Harley Race pretty much held just about every other damn title possible. He held eight Central States Titles, seven Missouri Titles, the Georgia Heavyweight Championship, the Stampede North American Title in Canada, and the Japan-based NWA United National and PWF Titles, so Mid-Atlantic thought,"what's the harm in giving him another". This was made to keep Race in contention for the Heavyweight Title, and boost up his credibility for an inevitable showdown with one of his many nemeses, Terry Funk. It worked perfectly, keeping the man at the top of the card, without having to give the pay off of making the man NWA Champion just yet.

Ricky Steamboat- This is pretty much akin to how Jericho is now with the Intercontinental Title; when they had little with Steamboat, they said "screw it, give him the US Title". His wars with Flair over the belt would rival things to come; they were great, but I'm not even sure he was prepared for the greatness about to come. He was always dependable to get a great match out of anyone, and its only fitting he was given what I liked to term the Workhorse Championship. The man always stayed pretty damn close to the belt, even two decades later when he would be defending the title against a young blonde little whippersnapper known as Steve Austin. Ah, he'll never go anywhere in the business. Still, Steamboat deserves a spot in this list.

Lex Luger- The longest reigning, and probably the most well known United States Champion. admittedly, I'm probably giving it to either Steamboat or him, as the truth is, when he was US Champion, he was that dominant. Again, this was purely to keep him busy until Flair and Luger was set to go down, and it did finally happen... Right about the time Flair left WCW. Womp womp womp. Defending the belt for seventeen months straight against the likes of Hayes, Steamboat, Pillman, you name it, Luger wrestled them. The only knock, for me, was he had two reigns. The matches were decent enough, but not worthy of the Workhorse title, really. Still, he was damn effective as champion, and fit his role as the successor to Flair's title soon thereafter. Just... You know, when Flair left.

Eddie Guerrero- The man that revived the title in the WWE. He beat Benoit for the belt in a tournament final, and it was all history from there. Mind you, Guerrero had been champion in WCW, as well, feuding with Syxx of the nWo. Truth be told, Guerrero deserves more credit for providing the first chink to the nWo armor by beating Syxx in a ladder match, at the nWo's event, Souled Out. His reign by beating Benoit, though, would cement his place as a mega over face on Smackdown, though he didn't start that way. This brought about the "Lie, Cheat, and Steal character that we all know Eddie so well for now, so admittedly, that probably gets points for me. Eight months later, he'd be World Champion, all due in large part to his reign with the US Gold. Thus, Eddie totally deserves a spot on the Mt. Rushmore of the US Gold.

Who, to you, is the Greatest US Champ?

 

[jmt225]

My pick would have to be Sting.

He had two runs as United States Champion. The first only lasted a month, but the 2nd lasted about 6 months and I thought the entire run was absolutely terrific.

First of all, to win the U.S. Championship, he had a fucking SUPERB match against Meng, who seemed unbeatable at the time. The next month he would successfully defend it in a rematch against Meng, which was also a fantastic match. Past that he mostly feuded with Ric Flair, which of course was great as all their matches/segments always ended up as.

The end of the run came when Sting dropped the title to Kensuke Sasaki in New Japan Wrestling, which was the set-up to the awesome feud WCW would have with those guys in the next few months, including a superb match between Sting and Sasaki at Starrcade 1995 where Sting would avenge his previous loss.

But yeah... I know Sting didn't have the longest run, but he was just the PERFECT United States Champion. That belt looked best around his waist. And the fact that he had awesome matches against Meng, Flair, and other members of the Four Horsemen and The Dungeon of Doom while champion really helped rise the stock back up for the belt, which I felt started to diminish after Jim Duggan held on to it for as long as he did, only to get squashed by Vader, only for Vader to get the title stripped from him. The belt became a bit of a joke, but then Sting beat Meng and it was a legitimate title once again.

 

[Tenta]

The end of the run came when Sting dropped the title to Kensuke Sasaki in New Japan Wrestling, which was the set-up to the awesome feud WCW would have with those guys in the next few months, including a superb match between Sting and Sasaki at Starrcade 1995 where Sting would avenge his previous loss.

Sting was actually someone I considered very heavily for the fourth spot, though I decided that ultimately, Guerrero meant more to the US Belt than Sting. Sting was undoubtedly the only good thing in WCW in the end of Hogan's bullshit run through everybody and anyone. He did beat Meng, who never got enough credit as to how he was so damn monsterous in WCW at the time. I think, though, the part that I quoted is partially why I had to drop him down to the Other Category. Sasake, to me, was always a good wrestler, and very good. But I always cringe at the fact that he was made to drop the title to the One Man Gang that Starrcade. I always heard it was like a screw job, but right then and there, Sasake's credibility, to me, was killed off. Sasake might have beaten Sting, but he can't the Dungeon of Doom's 42nd also ran? That, pretty much, made me wonder why Sting lost to Kensuke. Also, it didn't help that the only match Sasake had on WCW TV was a match with Benoit at World War 3. Granted, it was the best match of the night, but something about that never made sense that Sasake only had two or three defenses. That, to me, kind of ruined Sting's reign by proxy. Though I feel that he did carry WCW in an era where there wasn't much good to be had, really, and for that, I commend him.

 

[klunderbunker]

I've been known to go old school a few times so I'll do that here and go with Magnum TA.

The argument behind the US Title was always that it was the stepping stone to the world title. Since it was about as obvious as possible that Magnum was getting the belt had he not gotten in his wreck, that's exactly what the US Title did: it made him look like a world title contender. Much like Austin vs. Bret, his feud with Tully made him look like a legit guy as the redneck vs. the classic wrestler. Giving him the US Title in such intense fashion made him the star that Crockett wanted him to be. He was going to be world champion and possibly be the top face of the NWA for years to come. His reign as US Champion would have made all that possible and set the stage for his rise to greatness, which is the point of the belt. I'll take Magnum and his two reigns.

 

[Tenta]

I've been known to go old school a few times so I'll do that here and go with Magnum TA.

The argument behind the US Title was always that it was the stepping stone to the world title. Since it was about as obvious as possible that Magnum was getting the belt had he not gotten in his wreck, that's exactly what the US Title did: it made him look like a world title contender. Much like Austin vs. Bret, his feud with Tully made him look like a legit guy as the redneck vs. the classic wrestler. Giving him the US Title in such intense fashion made him the star that Crockett wanted him to be. He was going to be world champion and possibly be the top face of the NWA for years to come. His reign as US Champion would have made all that possible and set the stage for his rise to greatness, which is the point of the belt. I'll take Magnum and his two reigns.

I am probably one of TA's bigger critic, but even I can't deny that if he hadn't been injured, he'd be Hogan's rival in NWA. Has that ever been made into a What If thread.

Anyway, the I Quit Match is actually my third favorite match of all time, but something that kind of made me shy away from TA is that he never did much to elvevate the belt. True, TA did get elevated himself, but truly good can not only promote himself, but also the belt. That's ultimately why I went with Guerrero over TA. They both had a similar situation, in that the US Title pushed them both to the top. I do feel, though, Guerrero's path to the top was harder. Yes, he had Lesnar who was leaving, but there was also Angle, at the time Benoit, Taker was coming back, and plenty of other ring workers to stand out from. TA had the rocket strapped to his back, but Eddie really had to work with that belt. And that's exactly what he did

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah but in Eddie's time winning a world title was a lot easier. Do you really think someone of Eddie's level would have won a world title back in the 80s? Hell back then he might not have even gotten a US Title shot let alone a run with it. Magnum wasn't just going to be the next guy that beat Flair and then lost the title back like a month later. He was going to be THE guy in the NWA, which hadn't had a long term face since arguably the 70s with Jack Briscoe. (You could argue Flair but he was a heel again in less than a year after beating Race.) For Eddie, the world title simply didn't mean as much. His US Title reign really means little in the long run while even if Magnum had won the world title, his US Title win meant a lot even nearly 25 years later.

 

[Tenta]

Yeah but in Eddie's time winning a world title was a lot easier.

Hmm.... KB, Dusty was champion during that time. Wrestling had different expectations of the champ at the time. Sure, it helped that the brand was split, but he still had to go through Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, a rare in form Bradshaw, The Undertaker, Booker T, RVD eventually. I get what you're saying, but then again, even those names are a who's who of wrestling, man.

Do you really think someone of Eddie's level would have won a world title back in the 80s? Hell back then he might not have even gotten a US Title shot let alone a run with it.

I point to my Dusty point earlier. Perhaps you could it call it a Dusty Finish. Except it's more a beginning.

Magnum wasn't just going to be the next guy that beat Flair and then lost the title back like a month later. He was going to be THE guy in the NWA, which hadn't had a long term face since arguably the 70s with Jack Briscoe.

Well, in fairness, even with TA lost, it wasn't like they'd be lost for new faces. Eventually, Crockett would buy UWF, and though he royally screwed the pooch on the invasion, he still would have Sting. Luger would soon be ready to do the same thing TA was going to do. And they were both, at the time, better workers than TA, and while they didn't have the charisma, anyone that scared Flair was going to be able to draw.

(You could argue Flair but he was a heel again in less than a year after beating Race.) For Eddie, the world title simply didn't mean as much. His US Title reign really means little in the long run while even if Magnum had won the world title, his US Title win meant a lot even nearly 25 years later.

Only because his career was so unfulfilled. If he had eventually been champion, we'd forget he was ever US Champion. And again, while it is about pushing anew face to the top, it's also about elevating the belt.

 

[klunderbunker]

Hmm.... KB, Dusty was champion during that time. Wrestling had different expectations of the champ at the time. Sure, it helped that the brand was split, but he still had to go through Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, a rare in form Bradshaw, The Undertaker, Booker T, RVD eventually. I get what you're saying, but then again, even those names are a who's who of wrestling, man.

And he would have been up against 1980s Ric Flair and the original Horsemen. Would you care to compare RVD and Booker T to the original Horsemen? I'd love to see you try.

I point to my Dusty point earlier. Perhaps you could it call it a Dusty Finish. Except it's more a beginning.

Dusty was popular as hell. His in ring worked sucked harder than a ****e in a blowoff but he was popular as hell. Eddie is one of the most overrated guys of all time and didn't deserve the belt. Dusty at least had the ability to connect with the fans through stuff like the Hard Times promo.

Well, in fairness, even with TA lost, it wasn't like they'd be lost for new faces. Eventually, Crockett would buy UWF, and though he royally screwed the pooch on the invasion, he still would have Sting. Luger would soon be ready to do the same thing TA was going to do. And they were both, at the time, better workers than TA, and while they didn't have the charisma, anyone that scared Flair was going to be able to draw.

You know full well charisma means more than in ring ability. If it was about in ring ability then Regal vs. Malenko would have been in the main event of about 5 Manias in a row. Magnum was going to be the guy the fans made into their hero, which is far more than Eddie did. Eddie got a feel good run when Brock was bailing. That's hardly what Magnum did: getting pushed to the world title because the fans loved him.

Only because his career was so unfulfilled. If he had eventually been champion, we'd forget he was ever US Champion. And again, while it is about pushing anew face to the top, it's also about elevating the belt.

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart. It's Austin's most famous match and it was when he wasn't world champion yet. Hell someone made a thread about it just today. It was that one moment that he went as far as he could that he's remembered for. It's what Magnum would be remembered for too.

Eddie's title reign is more or less completely forgotten. Magnum's is his legacy. It's one sided on this.

 

[Tenta]

And he would have been up against 1980s Ric Flair and the original Horsemen. Would you care to compare RVD and Booker T to the original Horsemen? I'd love to see you try.

Are we talking by themselves? We both know Arn and Tully, God knows were great, but it was mainly Ric people shelled out the tickets for. In that way, by themselves, I'd probably say the talent was better. I know it doesn't work that way, though. But in one on one competitions, it's much better to lose to RVD than beat Tully Blanchard.

Dusty was popular as hell. His in ring worked sucked harder than a ****e in a blowoff but he was popular as hell.

I can't deny that he was popular, because he did connect, but over the long run, Dusty played out, and he got older than any mega over face I've ever seen really.

Eddie is one of the most overrated guys of all time and didn't deserve the belt.

Well, again, I'm not disputing his WWE Title reign. Just his US Title reign. I'd agree in principle with this.

You know full well charisma means more than in ring ability. If it was about in ring ability then Regal vs. Malenko would have been in the main event of about 5 Manias in a row. Magnum was going to be the guy the fans made into their hero, which is far more than Eddie did. Eddie got a feel good run when Brock was bailing. That's hardly what Magnum did: getting pushed to the world title because the fans loved him.

The fans didn't love Eddie? Come one, people overrate the guy to this day because of how fans feel about him. Much like Dusty, Eddie too tapped into the fans heads, and made them love him, even when he wasn't as able to produce in the ring.

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart. It's Austin's most famous match and it was when he wasn't world champion yet. Hell someone made a thread about it just today. It was that one moment that he went as far as he could that he's remembered for. It's what Magnum would be remembered for too.

Fair enough point. Still, people far remember Austin more than TA. Yes, that's quite vague, but still true.

Eddie's title reign is more or less completely forgotten. Magnum's is his legacy. It's one sided on this.

Eh, perhaps to some extent, but I still hold he had better matches, did a better job elevating a belt that had long been out of existence into relevance, and did so in style. Hell, even now, the US Title probably means more than the IC Title

 

[klunderbunker]

Are we talking by themselves? We both know Arn and Tully, God knows were great, but it was mainly Ric people shelled out the tickets for. In that way, by themselves, I'd probably say the talent was better. I know it doesn't work that way, though. But in one on one competitions, it's much better to lose to RVD than beat Tully Blanchard.

SHow me where Booker or RVD have ever drawn a thing, then show me what Arn and Tully as the Horsemen drew back in the day.

I can't deny that he was popular, because he did connect, but over the long run, Dusty played out, and he got older than any mega over face I've ever seen really.

He also had the book and made up an entire PPV to put himself over and got fired so that's neither here nor there.

Well, again, I'm not disputing his WWE Title reign. Just his US Title reign. I'd agree in principle with this.

Which is more or less completely forgotten.

The fans didn't love Eddie? Come one, people overrate the guy to this day because of how fans feel about him. Much like Dusty, Eddie too tapped into the fans heads, and made them love him, even when he wasn't as able to produce in the ring.

People love Eddie because he died. He was NEVER this popular while he was alive. He was popular, but you would think he had a fan club waiting outside his hotel room so he wouldn't ahve to walk on the ground if you listen to the hype he gets now. He went from feuding with Chavo to being "the most underrated star on Smackdown" in like a week and all of a sudden we're told about how much the people love him? I don't think so. Hell Magnum TA was introduced as the wildly popular Magnum TA. They knew they had something for his entire run.

Fair enough point. Still, people far remember Austin more than TA. Yes, that's quite vague, but still true.

He was a much bigger star. Why wouldn't they?

Eh, perhaps to some extent, but I still hold he had better matches, did a better job elevating a belt that had long been out of existence into relevance, and did so in style. Hell, even now, the US Title probably means more than the IC Title

The names on the belts today mean nothing. They're props now. Back in the day the midcard title match was a headlining match on the biggest PPV of the year. Today it's something the top square on the Brady Bunch match has held twice.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

I'm not going to go as far back as KB but I will discuss a rarely-remembered US champion. There's one person around the time of Eddie Guerrero as US champ in WCW that was ALSO a US champ but gets overlooked a lot: Dean Malenko- The Iceman, the man of 1000 holds, rivals Chris Benoit as one of the best damn technical wrestlers of the past 20 years. And for the people who say that Dean Malenko has no charisma: I seem to remember a feud with Chris Jericho where Malenko not only got the better of Jericho wrestling-wise but also promo-wise. Malenko's quiet, deliberate statements plus his calculating explosiveness in the ring provided a perfect role model for Randy Orton's modern-day Viper gimmick.

 

[kcordloh]

To me there are only 2 candidates.

Barry Windham, and Benoit. I have done ALOT of tape watching the last 3 years to catch up on my history, and what I saw of Windham's title reign I liked. Maybe it's just the guy captivated me, but he seemed to be the best there was besides Ric Flair on the tapes I have seen, and to me that's the best champion. Look like you are the best.


Benoit used that US Title to perfection. He got a stale Booker T back over, made MVP (before that series did ANYONE believe in MVP? Afterwards I was on the bandwagon, but not before). Heck Benoit made me more interested in his JBL feud over the title than I was for anything else going on in WWE at that point (granted we had Rey Rey as champ on one brand, and HHH gunning for the belt and slow turning on RAW as the main story (with RVD/Cena/Edge filling out the main event tier for stories)).


Eddie used the US Title well, but he never made anything of it. Kinda like in my opinion the US Title made Miz important, not the other way around. Benoit, whenever he had a belt, damn! Like the way he carried himself with any title was like that belt meant everything and he would do ANYTHING to keep it, which in my opinion is worth alot.

Big Show IMO was more important to the US Title than Eddie. He made John Cena legit with their WM XX match for that belt, and just him carrying it around all the time while being with Lesnar, and the memories of him and Lesnar duking it out for the WWE Title a year before and now Show had the US had a way of making the US seem like it was just a shade below the WWE Title.

Benoit, then Windham.

 

[LongLiveTheStreak]

I think Kofi Kingston is the greatest US champ of all time. The man won several multi-opponent matches with his belt on the line-triple threats, fatal 4 ways, even a couple of 6 pack challenges. Great title reign, think it was 5 nearly 6 months.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

The 17-month long reign has to do it for me..and it is why I pick Lex Luger!!

I think the reign was also quite good as well, he defended the title against the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Brain Pillman, Tommy Rich, "Mean" Mark Callous (The Undertaker), Ric Flair until finally losing it to Stan Hansen at Halloween Havoc 90...It was a good run..

Anyway, we all know that the US title has been in 3 different promotions...So..

NWA: Lex Luger
WCW: Sting
WWE: MVP

 

[mikeyboy]

Im going with KLUNDERBUNKER here and saying Magnum TA , he seems to be all but forgoten by todays wrestling fans but in the early 80's NWA ,mid atlantic region, he was THE FACE, no one was more loved, when he had his wreck it made front page of the papers here in North Carolina. he was being set up in the storylines to be the NWA world champ. and of course because of his accident it never happend, because of his shortend carrier we'll never know how big he could have been. 2nd ill go with Luger he was a bad ass that just destroyed all of his competition.no one could touch him at the time.

 

[cwill18]

Ravishing Rick Rude had by far the greatest US title reign ever. Held the title over a year, never lost it, had great fueds with Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes while being the top guy in WCW's top faction at the time. Rude's reign was much better than anyones reign with any other title in that era in WCW.

 

[Flair is God]

While only being a registered user since 10/09, I've been on these boards and on this site FOR YEARS. I absolutely love WZ just never felt the need to post anything. I was your classic window-shopper on the boards.

For some reason today, and this post has made me want to post so here goes:

My vote will go to Nikita Koloff!. His 7 match series with Magnum TA was a classic and not only did it bring credibility to the title by having it as a major prize of a 7 match series, it also rose the belt beyond just a title, but an actual defense of well the US. The evil Russian heel versus the home grown American boy. Not to mention that he turned down an offer during this time to join the WWF because of his upcoming push for the US title AND went on to defeat Wahoo McDaniel for the National Heavyweight title to unify it with the US title.

He only had the one title reign for almost a year, but it was significant enough (for me anyway) to make him the best ever.

 

[Digging4Plunder]

What about Tully Blanchard? The cornerstone of the Horseman. He held the belt during the hottest times of the Horsemen and had great matches. Pointing to the already mentioned match with Magnum T.A. Magnum was really hot during that period and Tully put him over hardcore (literally). Tully always got a good match out of everybody and I believe he could be the greatest U.S. Champ of all time.

I'd also be inclined to agree that Lex Luger was a great champion. I believe his run was in '88? Maybe '89, but he faced top competition for nearly a year straight and beat everybody on his way to the feud with Flair.