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Who's Responsible for the Death of Stampede Wrestling?

Tenta

The Shark Should've Worked in WCW
Ah yes, Stampede Wrestling. This is perhaps one of the most fampus promotions/territories ever in the history of pro wrestling. The names of the wrestlers that have graced the promotion reads as a who's who of professional wrestling. Of course, you have each of The Hart brothers, and Davey Boy himself. But some of the finest wrestler's in the world outside of the Hart family have made a name for themselves in this region in which, one could argue, was probably the toughest region in North America. Names like Andre and Abdullah The Butcher found themselves working programs here. It's where Dynamite Kid and Brian Pillman made names for themselves, and established themselves as attractions in professional wrestling. And yes, it was where young upstarts (at the time) by the name of Benoit and Jericho got their start, enthusiastically carrying the Hart's bags and going across the long, winding road in a cramped van. Still, so many pro wrestlers made names for themselves, and it was once run by (arguably) the most recognized patriarch in the world of Professional Wrestling; Stu Hart. Simply put, if you could make it through Stu's dungeon, you were destined to great things. This was because Stu, in the prime of his training, wouldn't accept anything less than perfection from his pupils. Stu would grind his students into the ground, because he knew that the traveling fans of his promotion demanded technically sound matches, and compelling wrestlers to cheer and boo. And that's exactly what Stu gave them.

Unfortunately, at some point, the magic that was Stampede Wrestling ran out. And there are plenty of culpable susprects into the death of Stampede Wrestling. The question is, who is most responsible for the death of Stampede Wrestling

(I suppose it's only fair, at this moment, to add that the promotion has been restarted. However, my personal belief is that, without any sort of backing from the Hart family, this version of Stampede means very little to me. To the best of my knowledge, the promotion is run by Bill Bell and Devon Nicholson. No where in that do I spy even a hint of a Hart.)

Now, I suppose when you're talking about killing promotions, it's only fair to bring this man to light...

vince-mcmahon.jpg

Yeah, I guess I really should include Vince. After all, the guy did buy out Stu, and did kind of raid his best talent from hi, didn't he? Yes, yes, he did it to every single promotion he could possible. All of the territories eventually couldn't combat Vince's media outlets, and the promise of more money for the wrestlers. And I guess you could say Vince sold back Stampede to Stu after he had raided him of his best talent (I.E. Bret, Davey Boy, Dynamite, you get the drill). So yeah, it'd be pretty simple to say vince is completely at fault.

But then again...

I mean, when you really think about it, Vince actually allowed for Stampede Wrestling shows to take place, even after the buy out. Granted, those shows were also presented as subsidiaries of WWE programming, but Vince was also providing financial support to Stampede. Vince was to provide a hundred thousand dollars a year for ten years, plus ten percent of the gate of Calgary and Edmonton shows. Vince, in return, took Calgary's television slots, and also allowed for Vince to hire the top talent of Stampede. Granted, seems lopsided, but when you come to think of it, the actual core of the promotion was still there. Stampede could have kept touring, and stayed alive for a good portion of time. Yes, Vince deserves some of the blame, but after all, it wasn't just him that led to the death of Stampede.

No sir, some of that indignity falls upon the shoulders of a booker for that promotion, Bruce Hart. Surely you know the last name, but who was he, you ask? Only the most egomanical and manipulative of all the Harts, with a little bit of bitter feelings towards Vince, to boot. Selected as a member of Creative when the agreed deal of signing talent occured, Bruce was always unhappy with how he felt his voice was heard in the WWE. Always a man that had to have a say in everything, Hart felt the position was mere table scraps, when in reality, the real issue was that his massive ego was damaged by not wielding the power that he used to. Thus,(and this is where I tend to get a bit fuzzy with what actually occured) when a group of investor's went to Bruce to start the idea of a "new" Stampede Wrestling, away from Vince's jurisdiction, Bruce jumped at the chance. Namely, because doing so would mean a return for him to the booker position. Thus, he accepted a deal in which would make him the new owner of Stampede Wrestling. Thus, Vince's deal with stu was broken. All of the money in which Vince was going to give Stu went completely down the drain, and Stampede was completely drained of talent that could have otherwise made sporadic returns in the region. In short, Bruce Hart assured that Stampede Wrestling, and in turn, Stu Hart, received absolutely nothing in the deal they made with WWE, and lost everything. Bruce would attempt to flog a floundering "new" Stampede Wrestling, but fans didn't turn out nearly as much as the original form. Perhaps, if the deal hadn't been breached by Bruce Hart, Stu could have been left with at least something.

Then again, perhaps Stu's a bit at fault himself. When you attempt to run your business in such a chaotic fashion as The Hart Family found to be the norm. Stu, while owning a terrific wrestling mind, had just as poor a mind when it involved running a business. The Harts were known for expenditures that can only be described as curious. One can only look at a household such as The Hart House to see the many frivolous spending Stu was notorious for, including, amongst other things, a fucking wrestling bear. Also, while Stu could see all of the flaws of his sons , such as Bruce, from a booking standopoint, Stu never once stepped in, and put Bruce back into his place. Still, Stu allowed for Bruce to wreak havoc, preferring to let his son beat Stampede right into the ground with horrible decisions and terrible booking. Shouting matches and fights were the norm for members of The Hart House, with Stu and Helen unfortunately caught within the middle. Still, Stu never stepped in when something was wrong, and to some extent, even isolated himself more from his business. By the time Bruce had run Stampede into the ground, all of the huge names had left for Vince's burgeoning company, with no hope of ever having them come back. Still, Stu allowed for Bruce to run his creation into the ground, without some sense of order, or firing Bruce Hart. You may wonder why I'm calling for a father to have fired his son, but from a business standpoint, it behooved Stu to keep Bruce away from the booking side. Still, he allowed Bruce to book his company into oblivion, and by the time Vince came calling, the man was too tired and drained to fight against Vince's corporation. Stu had every chance to stop his company, yet seemed too wrapped up in an already chaotic and otherwise destructive family to allow himself to do good business, and to have kept Bruce as far away from booking as possible.

Perhaps this all boils down to something I will discuss later in a future thread... Stu was a wrestling mind, but he, like many promoters of this period, was surely not a business mind. And unfortunately, running a wrestling business required just that.

Look, I'm not trying to get Vince off the hook here. Without Vince, perhaps Stampede would still be running. And I'd still argue that it's highly possible Stampede would have died a painful death, due to the chaotic booking and politics that seemed to destroy the promotion from the inside out.

So again, who, in your opinion, is to blame for The Death of Stampede Wrestling?
 
The easy answer is their inability to change with the tide. Really, I can write this post as thousands and thousands of words. But there is one simple logic. The inability to change with the times. Territories were dying at the time, and they were right to sell out to Vince. However, buying the company back was a horrible idea. No one wanted to see the territory system anymore, and the lack of talent was killing them. With the big men gone, there was no draw.

Bruce takes the heat, but really, he was a revolutionary mind in professional wrestling. He was Eric Bischoff years before Eric Bischoff left Minnesota. If Bruce was writing for the WWF or the WCW, that company would be in tremendous shape. However, he wasn't and he takes blame for riding the sinking ship down the the junkyard.

Blaming Vince McMahon is like blaming the bank for taking your house when you can no longer pay for it. Vince saw the way Wrestling would be successful, and marched his North Eastern promotion towards the victory line. The Territories were just obstacles long the way.
 
However, buying the company back was a horrible idea. No one wanted to see the territory system anymore, and the lack of talent was killing them. With the big men gone, there was no draw.

Bruce takes the heat, but really, he was a revolutionary mind in professional wrestling. He was Eric Bischoff years before Eric Bischoff left Minnesota. If Bruce was writing for the WWF or the WCW, that company would be in tremendous shape. However, he wasn't and he takes blame for riding the sinking ship down the the junkyard.

That, to me, TM, is somewhat of the paradoxical matter in Bruce's involvement. Sure, he had a decent mind for booking, but I wouldn't call him Bischoff, per se. I'd liken him more to Russo, as a man who wanted to stretch the limits as far as possible, when the wrestling world just wasn't ready for it. As for the idea that the resale killed Stampede... Well, simple enough, that was all Bruce's fault. Bruce wanted to be a booker again, and he went behind Stu's back to sign the deal. simply put, if the resale had something to do with the sinking ship, then you have to put Bruce at fault, as it was his idea to attempt and retake the reins from Vince... Probably the worst ides possible.

As for the idea that the big names had left... I'm not so sure if I buy that completely, TM. Think of all the wrestlers to come out of Canada, even after The Harts popularity started to wane (alebeit only slightly). Names like Jericho, Benoit, and even Storm were coming out of the gate here. Even later, you had guys like Edge and Christian, and even now with D.H. smith, leading the way for Canadian wrestlers. You don't think that these guys would have leaped at the chance to work for Stu, knowing the legendary name the guy is? Sure, they lost talent, but Stu had such a great wrestling mind, he could've built up plenty more names to live his legacy, and to continue to forge a path for what would have been Stampede Wrestling
 
That, to me, TM, is somewhat of the paradoxical matter in Bruce's involvement. Sure, he had a decent mind for booking, but I wouldn't call him Bischoff, per se.

He was as creative as a booker as Bischoff was.


I'd liken him more to Russo, as a man who wanted to stretch the limits as far as possible, when the wrestling world just wasn't ready for it.

The only reason he would be slightly compared to Russo is because he had ideas that were slightly... well let us not say slightly, let us be honest, some of his ideas were so farfetched in that wrestling atmosphere that they would have never worked. But unlike Russo, his ideas were good, and would have worked nationally. Unfortunately Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Cranbrook, these are areas of Canada that are extremely conservative, especially for their wrasslin'. Bruce wanted Vince to see his work, and he wanted that job with the big company. Vince Did not want him, and look at how his company turned during what would have been Bruce's prime. Completely different than what was coming out of WCW at the time. Comparative? Maybe, but a writing team of Bischoff with Bruce Hart would have been a great mark.


As for the idea that the resale killed Stampede... Well, simple enough, that was all Bruce's fault. Bruce wanted to be a booker again, and he went behind Stu's back to sign the deal.

Stu wanted the company back as well, he had a lot of trouble walking away from the business. We can see that time and time again. He wanted the company for the family. And look what happened? If failed. But it would have failed without the company. The Hart was lost, the family hates each other, and many many issues arise from issues not related to ol' Wildcat.


simply put, if the resale had something to do with the sinking ship, then you have to put Bruce at fault, as it was his idea to attempt and retake the reins from Vince... Probably the worst ides possible.

Desperate men do desperate things. In my books, and my parents books, and all Stampede Wrestling fans, the company that we call "Stampede Wrestling" died that moment. What was actually started up was nothing compared to Stampede except for the name. Not even the return of the bulldogs did anything for them.


As for the idea that the big names had left... I'm not so sure if I buy that completely, TM. Think of all the wrestlers to come out of Canada, even after The Harts popularity started to wane (alebeit only slightly). Names like Jericho

Jericho knew of the Hart Fame, but came too late for any legitimate training. The Hart brothers screwed him and hurt his beginning. Same with Storm. As it was mostly Keith capitalizing on his family's name.


Benoit did wrestle for Bruce.

Even later, you had guys like Edge and Christian

Ontario had their own territory. Being Canadian doesn't mean much when you are 3000 kilometers away.

and even now with D.H. smith, leading the way for Canadian wrestlers.

DH did train and wrestle for Stampede during its last run. Drew nothing with his father, until his father died.


You don't think that these guys would have leaped at the chance to work for Stu, knowing the legendary name the guy is?

Pretty mute point after Stu died. Stu was too old. He no longer had the ability to run the company. As he would have wanted to keep it in the family, passing it to Bruce is not a major issue.

Sure, they lost talent, but Stu had such a great wrestling mind, he could've built up plenty more names to live his legacy, and to continue to forge a path for what would have been Stampede Wrestling

If this is the point you were getting at, then what killed Stampede would have been Age. and Stu's inability to live longer.
 
I believe the matter rests on Bruce's shoulders, Vince gave the wrestling Organization a way to still thrive in the small territories, Vince offered them the money they needed as long as he could take the talent he wanted, it seems like a big price that stu and the Harts where paying but i dont see it that way i see it more as an opportunity.

At the Time the WWE was bringing wrestling to the forefront would you want to compete?,I wouldn't, I would have wanted my company to survive so being in bed with Mcmahon would have enabled Stampede to at least live longer as a farm territory, it would also allow them to showcase their talent with the Stampede stamp, think about it, what would it have been like if people where coming to stu to train them because he had a direct link with the WWE.

whereas Bruce's ego got him into the situation where he only cared about himself, not the company and basically caused its death due to the fact that he turned on McMahon and attempted to live off of the name which he truthfully had no association with apart from his own heritage, its kinda scary if you ask me, if it wasn't for his over sized ego stampeded could have attained heights that ECW did in its day by being the niche organization in a world of characters.
 
Curses... My plan to rep you has been foiled.... But as soon as I can, you're getting some TM. Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot of Stampede... Well, actually I know a bit, but not as much as you admittedly. Anyway, let's keep this train running


He was as creative as a booker as Bischoff was.

If by creative, you mean completely... Well, out there.... Sure, I'll agree with that.


The only reason he would be slightly compared to Russo is because he had ideas that were slightly... well let us not say slightly, let us be honest, some of his ideas were so farfetched in that wrestling atmosphere that they would have never worked.

And that's the connection that seems lost upon generations. Stu knew how to create wrestlers that fans could tap into. Bruce stretched himself so far out of credibility, and was so partial to playing favorites, I doubt many people take him that seriously within the Hart family.


But unlike Russo, his ideas were good, and would have worked nationally. Unfortunately Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Cranbrook, these are areas of Canada that are extremely conservative, especially for their wrasslin'.

And here, we're going to both agree. His plans would have worked on a national level, because that was the way the major companies eventually learned to book themselves. However, here's where we disagree; a good booker senses out the territory he's in, gauges what people like and don't like, and he creates his product to fit that mold. If the fans wanted wrestling, then godamnit, give them wrestling. That, to me, is simple, yet powerful booking.


Bruce wanted Vince to see his work, and he wanted that job with the big company. Vince Did not want him, and look at how his company turned during what would have been Bruce's prime. Completely different than what was coming out of WCW at the time. Comparative? Maybe, but a writing team of Bischoff with Bruce Hart would have been a great mark.

And here, we'll agree, but again, we're talking about the climate of Calgary, Alberta Canada. And that just wasn't there kind of beez nees.


Stu wanted the company back as well, he had a lot of trouble walking away from the business. We can see that time and time again. He wanted the company for the family. And look what happened? If failed. But it would have failed without the company. The Hart was lost, the family hates each other, and many many issues arise from issues not related to ol' Wildcat.

I'm not going to lie... I just marked out for Wildcat! FTW.

Anyway, onto matters, I can agree, but I also think Stu was smart enough (like what you said about other bookers during this time) to realize he couldn't compete with Vince. I don't think he would have taken the deal otherwise. Stu is stiff, and he's stubborn. You know how difficult it would be for a man like that to admit defeat to a young whipper snapper. Stu was sure to make sure all of his trainees knew he was boss. Is that the look of a man that concedes power? Yet, he did, willingly, to Vince.




Desperate men do desperate things. In my books, and my parents books, and all Stampede Wrestling fans, the company that we call "Stampede Wrestling" died that moment. What was actually started up was nothing compared to Stampede except for the name. Not even the return of the bulldogs did anything for them.

Well part of that also came from Dynamite Kid booking. I mean, just from my standpoint, not only was the guy bitter backstage, but he didn't have the mind of a booker. So he just threw out his favorite's (Benoit) and played politics. The fact that they let Tom Billington book shows just how desperate they were after a stint with Bruce.




Jericho knew of the Hart Fame, but came too late for any legitimate training. The Hart brothers screwed him and hurt his beginning. Same with Storm. As it was mostly Keith capitalizing on his family's name.

Yes, we'll agree here. To me, it's actually really sad. I still can't believe that out of all that, he only had one training session, with Keith, on his first day. However, he also did say that he had a few sessions with Stu himself. And perhaps where I'm getting at is that connection from the patriarch to his offspring, the ones that couldn't cut it in WWE, was completely on different wave lengths. Stu raised Calgary and Edmonton (to the best of my knowledge, there were matches in Edmonton) on a specific way of wrestling, and Calgary fans came to expect that. and when Bruce didn't provide it... Well, you have what we see here.



Benoit did wrestle for Bruce.

And hated the way Bruce did business. Still, he knew there was a code, and being a rookie, he kept his mouth shut, and did his job.



Ontario had their own territory. Being Canadian doesn't mean much when you are 3000 kilometers away.

True, but then why would Edge come all of that way just for some guy he never heard of? Especially when his best friend since childhood had begun training with Dory Funk Jr., Tom Prichard, and Ron Hutchison? Edge had multiple ways he could have been trained. He chose to go all that way to be trained by the best... Or what he assumed, the best... in The Dungeon.



DH did train and wrestle for Stampede during its last run. Drew nothing with his father, until his father died.

Are we referring to that run from 89-99? Because if so, even then I have problems calling it an actual promotion. The Harts had already given it up, and perhaps if Bruce and Keith were able to keep cohesion, and provide the fans what they want, that wouldn't be the case.



Pretty mute point after Stu died. Stu was too old. He no longer had the ability to run the company. As he would have wanted to keep it in the family, passing it to Bruce is not a major issue.

True, but keeping it in The Hart name was what was important, and that was the point I was getting at.


If this is the point you were getting at, then what killed Stampede would have been Age. and Stu's inability to live longer.

and there was no heir, who wasn't already tied to the WWE, nor had the connection with the fans, to keep it afloat. From my perspective.
 
I would say the death of Stu Hart killed it. Even when Stu wasn't the owner he was still the man that trained the talent. When he died the talent wasn't there and the promotion became obsolete. The death of Stu Hart marked the death of Stampede Wrestling.
 
Does anyone necessarily have to be at fault? Stampede was a regional promotion when the idea of regional promotions had run its course. Things change, and this wasn't an exception.

If anything is to blame for the death of Stampede, it's cable television. We all know that story. Cable TV gave birth to the global promotions, and killed the territories. It's more complicated than that of course, but that's the short version. I mean, I miss Smoky Mountain Wrestling with Jim Cornette and Flyin' Brian... used to watch it every time it came to the community college in Big Stone Gap, VA. But... times change.
 
Does anyone necessarily have to be at fault? Stampede was a regional promotion when the idea of regional promotions had run its course. Things change, and this wasn't an exception.

On any other territory, I'd agree, when it comes to the territory age.... But not on this one. Stampede had a cult following the likes of which, well, the only possible rival I can come up with is ECW. People traveled hundreds of miles from Calgary to Edmonton, just to watch house shows. This territory was beloved by its followers... Just ask TM. He can actually tell you much better than I can.

Still, this territory also meant something else... It meant the beginning of what some people call "The Hart Curse". Not only was this trace the demise of a promotion, it shapes the gloom and doom that would follow this first family of wrestling for decades. Are the two connected? Some would say so, and I might agree to an extent. It led to skewed perceptions of what's real and fake for The Harts. The downfall of this territory not only charts the fall of a promotion, but perhaps the decline of one of the first families of wrestling.
 
The entire Hart Clan are to blame... every last one...

Stu probably was not a great businessman, that much is clear but even Helen would have to take some blame... after all by her own admissions for years she wanted out of the business... So straight away the business was shaky... how can a husband work hard for a business he loves when his wife hates what he does so much? That is the Hart Familes first tragedy...

Add to the mix a succession of sons with limited understanding and skills who were more interested in what they could get out of Stampede and the family than they were putting into it... creating a general air of chaos which meant Stu always needed to rely on family, as they couldn't keep the truly talented for very long.

I am of course being harsh... any family with a business and 12 kids is gonna have major issues, squabbles and politics... but it is telling that those with any true talent were always conflicted about being involved... That Bret wanted to act, that Owen wanted to be a fireman, Keith a teacher... says a lot...

The irony is the ones who wanted to be "in the business" were the ones who should never have been allowed near it in the first place. The girls wanted to marry wrestlers , creating competition over "spots" and who had them... Bruce is often described as a great wrestling mind... its scary how the only time that is really said about people is when they are screw-ups. Everyone else is a legend...

Vince didn't kill Stampede, if anything he did more for Stu than he had to and than he did for others... cos he understood the value of Stampede... its a shame no Hart other than Stu grasped that...

Bret and Owen... can't really blame them, they were successful for Vince... but perhaps instead of signing for WCW, Bret, Davey and Neidhart could have gone back home and worked on making Stampede work again...
 

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