Who was/is the better Hardcore wrestler? Sabu or Foley

[The Max Attack]

I was looking at some matches with Sabu and Mick Foley. And I started to ask... Who was/is the better Hardcore Wrestler

When you think of Sabu, you think of throwing chairs, and you automatically think of ECW. He has also put his body through tremendous trauma, and just total craziness.

When you think of Foley. I go to the Hell in a Cell match against the Undertaker, the huge throw off the top of the cell through the announce table. And he also has put his body through tremendous trauma also

If I had to pick one over the other I would pick Foley, simply because, he took the most sickest punishment in matches and kept going and wanting more.

So now I ask again, to you. Who was/is the better Hardcore Wrestler?

 

[TSG]

I would choose Foley easily. While Sabu was wild and crazy, he was also dangerous and sloppy. He had a lesser moveset than Foley, and Foley could tell a better story in the ring. Foley was also leagues ahead on the mic. That's why Sabu had Bill Alfonso, and Alfonso wasn't as good as Foley either. Sabu made a name throwing jairs and putting himself through tables. Fine. I repect him for what he did. But Foley did what Sabu did better and then went beyond that. Some call Foley a glorified stunt man. That's what I call Sabu. I call Foley a dedicated and great worker. Foley wins.

 

[Megatron]

Sabu = piece of shit garbage wrestler that was known only because of his stupid table stunts. Botched regularly and was very useless.

Foley = Arguably Top 25 in the WWE history, at least Top 50. Foley's matches had something that Sabu has failed to bring in pretty much any match that he's ever been in, and that's psychology and storytelling. Foley may not have had the 'look' of a true wrestler, but he was 500% the wrestler of Sabu. He didn't just do spots to do them, for a majority of the time they were there to contribute to some sort of story. So, my pick is an easy one. Foley, by miles and miles. It's really a slap in the face to Foley if anyone thinks that Sabu is better then him, at anything.

Well, except for being a botchamania worthy wrestler everytime he steps inside of the ring.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Mick Foley is definitely better. He did everything Sabu could do and not botch as much. He brought home a bigger paycheck because of it; got signed to WWE because of his stunts, and is part of the most memorable hardcore moments in wrestling history. (The Hell In A Cell)

 

[Cookie14]

Foley by a mile, purely because he was a better wrestler. Sabu was just mental. His stunts just seem so dangerous because always appear unplanned. He has injured himself and others so many times (yes, I know Foley has injured himself several times, but I can't think of any time that he ever injured anyone else)

 

[lonewolfhc]

Wow i relly like that people stand for foley. he is oen of my favorit. i know he had a match with sabu i think sabu took mroe of the beating if i reamber right i will have to re watch it. Ric flair is wrogn call him a glorfied stuntman. His mathc with HBK was great. he great mathc with all the wrestler and some he didnt even have to do any hardcore. Mick is the best on micke wean tell a story i get bump watching his old prombos ass jack heck evern dudel ove and mankind he is really smart yes he had to do what he had to do. Fan loved him becaue he was and still is the nicest guy you hate to have turn to a bad guy. Look at rick flair he had to cut him self every show what does that make him sorry getting off topic foley his the best there is the best there was and the best there ever will be wean it comes to tell hardcore storys!!!!

 

[Zuper-Man]

I have to agree with the majority here. While one can argue that their sick and demented nature rival one another, there is no competition as to who the "better" hardcore wrestler was. Who the "sicker" one is may be a little tougher to answer. Sabu clips on the internet are crazy, but a lot of his live shit is botchy. Mic skills is pretty redundant to mention as there was zero comparison in that matter. Based solely on spots, they're actually pretty even. Two matches that come to mind are Foley's HIAC match with Undertaker, and Sabu's barbed wire match with Terry Funk. The former is obviously the more popular one, but the latter is pretty freaking brutal in it's own right----And these are pretty mainstream companies (WWE more so than ECW obviously) so I highly doubt these are even the most hardcore matches they've ever had. Anyways, to the point. Hardcore is about the only attribute (durability notwithstanding) where Sabu could even compete with Mick, and even then, at their absolute prime, Foley wins IMHO.

 

[Buster]

Mick Foley is definitely better. He did everything Sabu could do and not botch as much.

To suggest that Mick Foley could do everything Sabu could do is almost, by definition, defying the laws of physics.

Despite taking massive bumps or dropping big elbows off the apron, I don't think Mick Foley has ever been able to lift his feet higher than his head.

While I would have to agree with a lot of people that Mick Foley is the better hardcore wrestler: Brought hardcore to the masses, used hardcore to elevate others, sells moves like hot cakes mixed with intense storytelling and character.

Sabu was definitely more athletic, unpredictable and to some degree more innovative (come see what I can do with a chair!).

 

[Beitter]

Who could be more Hardcore than Sabu??? The guy is covered head to toe in scars! Uses his whole body as a weapon, in fact has he ever been in a match that was just straight up wrestling? Sabu the name says it all! The suicidal, homicidal, and genicidal Sabu! Foley isn't that far off though! For a bigger guy to take all the tough bumbs he does! But seriously Sabu is a F'N crazy!

 

[Acid]

I think most of you guys chose Foley (no disrespect they guys is awesome) because he was mainstream. If you guys would have seen both wrestle in the same number of matches I think you guys would have chosen Sabu. They have both put their bodies to the test and prevailed. Sabu has done just as many bumps and pretty much the same as Foley ( aside from HIAC). They are always getting injured and have injured others as well (Foley started the whole knee injury for HHH when he backdropped him on the wooden pallet). Foley ripped of half his ear when he botched a move in the hang man (running over ropes head gets tied up in between and hangs) which was probably his biggest self botch. Sabu just too many to count though. The thing that makes me chose Sabu though is the fact that this guy has had his neck broken multiple times and he's still going at it. When Foley breaks his neck multiple times and comes back then we can talk again.

 

[Caitiff]

"Wrestler" is much more important than "Hardcore." Sabu can't wrestle. Sabu can't cut a promo. Foley, on the other hand, can still wrestle a passable match, even with his injuries. And, as we all know, Foley's ability on a mic is legendary. And, when the weapons do come out, it actually makes sense with Foley. There's a reason for the progression. With Sabu, it's just a matter of "Well, this is what Sabu can do." Foley beats Sabu, in almost all respects.

 

[Acid]

I would mostly agree w/ you there, but if you think Sabu can't wrestle might as well let RVD and The Original Sheik know that they can't wrestle as well as the Sheik trained both of them.

 

[SoCalSteve]

Mick Foley is the better Hardcore wrestler. He had some of the sickest matches in Japan. He went through a one night King of the Deathmatch elimination tournament and beat Funk in the finals. He had his left arm cut open by a chainsaw. Sabu had some great matches in ECW and FMW. But nothing compared to what Mick went through.

 

[Remix]

Foley. Not because he's a great wrestler, they're both not up to much in that department. However he was in the hardcore spots of the century in the second HiaC. You don't get JR shouting "With God as my witness he is broken in half" after a 20 foot drop without becoming the most hardcore wrestler on the planet. Not to mantion the other insane spots Foley has been in, but that's the big, unmatchable one that puts him head and shoulders above Sabu.

 

[shattered dreams]

I voted Foley but I think some people are selling Sabu short here. Mic work is irrelevant for the question. The OP wrote wrestler after hardcore and that swayed us to choose Foley but how important is wrestling in a hardcore match? It is pretty debatable. I know I would prefer to watch a Foley match but if you asked me who is more hardcore I would be hard pressed to break the tie. The high profile nature of Foley's work gives him an unfair advantage. If say the barbed wire match with Funk and Sabu occurred on the same stage as hell in a cell taker-foley we might be having a different discussion. Then again Foley did some pretty hardcore stuff before he ever made it big.

 

[Joey B.]

Acid, with all due respect, I'd hardly call Foley losing his ear a "botch." If you read "Have a Nice Day," he had done the hangman move several times before the attempt against Vader. There were two differences during the attempt when he lost his ear: WCW didn't use ring rope...they used elevator cable covered in rubber, which would naturally make the move more difficult to carry out and get out of, and, more importantly, the ropes had been tightened to their maximum by the ring crew after Two Cold Scorpio complained that they were too loose during his match. Foley didn't know the ropes had been tightened that much, and didn't expect the ropes to be as tight as they were around his neck. In the book, he likened his wrenching his head from between the ropes to a wolf being caught in a trap and chewing off his leg to escape. Botch? No...just an accident caused by unexpected conditions.

Oh, and to get back on topic...my pick is Foley, basically for the same reasons as posted on here...he told a better story when in the ring and was one of the best hardcore promo guys in the game.

 

[boozinjedi]

Before Foley came to the WWE,His japanese stuff was insane!!
But don't discount Sabu so fast..I do agree that Sabu was more athletic and aerial.
Everyone raves about HIAC & Foley..No one could top that.
But don't forget about Born To Be Wired w/Funk!

I do rank Foley ahead of Sabu,but just BARELY!!

This gets me thinking,
Just imagine(if he had lived) what Bruiser Brody would've done in the orignal ECW?!

 

[hellod245]

I would say Foley for sure. Sabu was great but Foley has more variety than Sabu. Foley is not just a hardcore wrestler but he can tell a better story in the ring and is easily top 15 Mic workers in the history of the profession. Foley's one fall from cell beats all hardcore wrestlers. Sabu is table, chair specialist but foley is barbwire, thumbtacks, Hell in a Cell, Fire, chairs and big falls specialist. He is one of the better all round performer that wwe has ever seen. Who can forget his funny mankind charactor and his funny Rock and Sock team ?? He is obviously The Man whom I respect just because of the fact that he put everything on line to entertain fans.

 

[Reddannihilation]

The question seems to solely relate to the Hardcore aspect of wrestling, so all the people throwing out arguments for Foley about story-telling and promos don't seem to have much in the way of reading comprehension skills. Strictly hardcore the two are quite even, however of the two Foley's known for his falls off the cell and the time Vader wrapped him up in the ring ropes causing Foley to lose half his ear. Then again Sabu had his neck broken by Chris Benoit in ECW in one of the most painful looking ways ever and still came back from that. For me the vote goes to Sabu because he's still out there wrestling that style, once Foley went to the WWF/E he pretty much did the Hell In A Cell bumps and after that he was part of good but not great hardcore matches. Both are good and Foley is the better of the two on an overall scale, but as far as Hardcore matches are concerned Sabu wins by a hair.

 

[Caitiff]

I would mostly agree w/ you there, but if you think Sabu can't wrestle might as well let RVD and The Original Sheik know that they can't wrestle as well as the Sheik trained both of them.

Well, The Shiek was heavily overrated. And, RVD, to be completely honest, is along the same lines of Jeff Hardy. He's just another spot monkey with next to zero mic skills. Frankly, RVD, while he's passable in the ring, and certainly tolerable to watch, is extremely overrated. None of them entertain me.

"But, Rob. RVD has great matches. Look at his matches with Eddie. Or, Jerry Lynn. Him and Lynn were awesome matches." You're right. They were great matches. But, look at the guys he was in the ring with. I've never seen a bad Jerry Lynn match, as long as his opponent could do anything. And, Eddie Guerrero could probably have had a passable match against anyone, with very few exceptions.

"But, Rob. What does that have to do with mic skills?" I'm glad you asked. Everything that happens has to happen for a reason. And, far more often than not, that reason drives the emotion behind doing something. The build-up is what makes the action mean something. And, when there's an actual reason behind something, less is more. And, that made Foley able to actually wrestle far longer than Sabu could.

"Hardcore wrestling" isn't just about weapons. That's where Paul Heyman made people stupid. Weapons can certainly be used to add to a decent match. However, Sabu was pushed solely on his willingness to try to replace actual wrestling with swinging weapons. I'm not a trained wrestler. But, I still ghave enough talent to swing a chair at your face. And, if I swing it hard enough, and swing it enough times, you're talented enough to bleed because of it. I'm not talking about who is a tougher guy. I'm talking about who can actualy perform in a match. Exactly why is that difficult to understand?

 

[shattered dreams]

"Hardcore wrestling" isn't just about weapons. That's where Paul Heyman made people stupid. Weapons can certainly be used to add to a decent match. However, Sabu was pushed solely on his willingness to try to replace actual wrestling with swinging weapons. I'm not a trained wrestler. But, I still ghave enough talent to swing a chair at your face. And, if I swing it hard enough, and swing it enough times, you're talented enough to bleed because of it. I'm not talking about who is a tougher guy. I'm talking about who can actualy perform in a match. Exactly why is that difficult to understand?

The thing is the vast majority of the hardcore spots foley did just about anyone who is crazy enough to take the punishment could do. As much as I like Foley his legend is simply taking tons of ridiculous punishment. Pretty much anyone can be thrown from something or get worked over stiff with or without weapons. If we are talking about the use of weapons or the nature of the hardcore spots Sabu bests Foley in a variety contest for sure.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Without a chair, Sabu would be clueless in the ring. Most of his moves involve a chair. Watch any hardcore match with Sabu since you rarely see the man wrestling anything else, and he relies on that chair like a crutch. Foley isn't athletically sound, but the man can work with anything in a hardcore environment. Foley isn't a better hardcore wrestler because he fell through a cage, but Foley has ability to make you love him and hate him in the same minute.

Sabu doesn't even speak and is very limited to what he can do in the ring. Foley was in Japan fighting multiple death matches against Terry Funk. Foley was crowned King of the death matches. There is no comparison.

 

[a1n1hbk]

Foley all the way. He was a hundred time better wrestler than sabu ever was. Foley was sick as much as sabu but never dangerous for others. He gave one of the most memorable moment in history that is thrown off the top of cell. Foley is God.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

I can't pick between the 2, but if i have to, i have to say Sabu was more crazy, he made everything look that bit more crazy..nearly killed himself a million times...

Mick Foley always knew what he was doing before did something stupid...he was involved in that cell match in 1998 and that showed what he had in the tank as well..win lose or draw, Foley always showed us what he was good at...and a true hardcore legend...have to pick Foley..