Who is/was the greates master of submissions?

[CM Steel]

Every old school wrestling fan knows that wrestling legend Dean Malenko is/was one of the greatest submission wrestler's in the world. And he also came up with the "Crippler Crossface" hold, not the late Chris Benoit. But who other than Malenko is truly the master of submission holds?

In the WWE right now. They are building Daniel Bryan up as the new school submission master, which could be true. But who other plays a role in that subject in current wrestling history?

 

[HBsam31]

Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit were always two of my favorite submission wrestlers. I used to love watching there matches and see them chain wrestle and exchange submission hold. I would say those two are in at least the top five all time. Its hard for me to pick a best ever, but those two are definitely at the top.

 

[Danger Burger]

Ken Shamrock!! Well... maybe not, but his ankle lock was pretty cool!

Angle is an obvious pick, Bryan is ahead for the right now (he doesnt even do HALF the moves he could use in the indies) and iv always been a jericho fan!

Benoit was always a favorite too, guy was just intense, alot of tension when he got the cross face locked in... One of the few legit looking moves for taking a guy to his limits!!

 

[LascoX]

I am going to throw out a true old school name and go Stu Hart, the man that ran the ledgendary "Dungeon" was a bit of a sadist and knew all the moves that would press a man to his limit and make him tap. Others of note , Chris Benoit and Jerico(as previously cited by others) I do like Danial Bryan and he seems to be very sound in the ring, I will add Bret Hart as at least half of his matches were won using the sharpshooter

 

[IT Factor]

I'd say the best technical submission expert of all time is indeed Dean Malenko. He brought alot of influence into our mainstream US wrestling and also did things like inventing Benoit's crossface, etc. He could sell just about any submission as being dangerous just by masterfully working over an opponent all match and then, all of a sudden, breaking out a vicious submission and ending it.

Chris Benoit has to be a close second. He was another mat master that could pull out any submission and use it to tell a story in the ring. No matter what happened at the end, I still respect Benoit as a pure wrestling fan. His work was phenominal and it's a shame his death will overshadow everything he did his entire life.

William Regal is probably pretty high on a list of underrated submission experts.

I'm a big fan of Daniel Bryan. He's a great in-ring competitor who's vastly skilled in the submission art. And though some don't like him because they think he's boring, his ring work is excellent. Bryan is probably the closest this generation will ever get to being like a Dean Malenko or a Chris Benoit. CM Punk has also done alot currently to bring back the lost art of submission.

Of course, when you think submission, you have to think Bret Hart. He was truly gifted at making submissions a big part of his storylines and using them as devastating advancement points.

 

[jcmassen]

Bob Backlund...I was not a fan of his in the early 90's when he came back to WWF(e). However as I got older and became of more educated wrestling fan(stealing my cousins wrestling tapes helped here a lot), I discovered Backlunds match's against Greg Valentine, Antonio Inoki(another great subs guy) and Snuka. The man was a submission/technical wrestling machine! Benoit, Hart, Malenko they all where some of the all time greats in this genre of wrestling, but for me Backlund was the best.

 

[theBec2101]

It has to really be Ken Shamrock. He really could make people tap. That is what he did before wrestling. I mean I understand everyone else’s choice but in actuality it is Ken Shamrock. Or you could even go with Dan Severn

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I am going to throw out a true old school name and go Stu Hart, the man that ran the ledgendary "Dungeon" was a bit of a sadist and knew all the moves that would press a man to his limit and make him tap. Others of note , Chris Benoit and Jerico(as previously cited by others) I do like Danial Bryan and he seems to be very sound in the ring, I will add Bret Hart as at least half of his matches were won using the sharpshooter

This and Billy Robinson should be the only answers. These guys were masters of a forgotten martial art, and they passed that knowledge on to the pro wrestling community.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No Von Erich Claw love?

I'd say as far as guys who pull off "that's just fuckin weird" type submissions, either Alex Shelley, Mike Quackenbush, or really any Mexican guy.

As far as guys who make submissions look like actual struggles (unlike Shelley who's shit looks contrived and bogus), Daniel Bryan is the best right now. No, he actually doesn't do less in WWE than he did in ROH, most of you are mistaken. Still does the wrist torture spots and all that good shit.

Personally, I like the stuff that looks like a struggle more. They apply it slowly and the other guy fights back during each step in the submission. When they just whip it on real fast it looks cool but then you're like "but really lol that wouldn't work and probably doesn't hurt".

 

[ktsKane]

I use to watch an old Aussie wrestler Ron Miller when i was a kid from what i remember had a few submission holds but did do a mean figure 4

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

Their is alot great submission wrestlers. Shamrock, Angle, Bryan, Jericho, and Malenko are great. But my favorite submission wrestler is the Hitman Bret Hart. Once Bret put that Sharpshooter down, it was tough to get out.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Funny thing is until the 90s it was completely unheard of, almost taboo, for a legit star wrestler to submitt in a match. When Hart won the title from Flair with Sharpshooter it was unreal, the idea that a wrestler as established as Flair would be willing to do that. Nowadays its not uncommon to see a random 10 min match on RAW end via submission.

As for a fav Id pick Angle, he was an exceptionally good performer and his ankle lock was a terrific finisher. Today Cena's STF is probably the best.

Another good thread would be best submission victory, like Magnam TA over Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair over Terry Funk, Lex Luger over Hulk Hogan, etc

 

[Doctor Awesome]

I'm a little confused; is this about the best "all around" submission wrestler or one trick ponies that used a specific submission finish during their careers? Well, I'll go rogue and focus on best all around submission-style talent, someone who over the years has used multiple submissions to be successful...Brian Danielson. Over the years in the indies he has used multiple submission finishers and adding the LaBell Lock since his WWE tenure has been great, kind of an ode to the crippler crossface which will always be the best submission pop ever. My one question is; how has he not used Cattle Mutilation once since being in the WWE? It;s far from a move you would expect to be banned????

As far as a wrestler who's submission finish totally exemplified who he was, many people have let their feelings be known so I'll do the same. His nickname may have been the "Human Suplex Machine" but Taz didn't pin guys, he choked their asses out. Paul Heyman said Taz "brought the BIG FIGHT element" to his matches and that he certainly did, whether it was bridging the wrestling/mma gap w/Paul Varelans, breaking Sabu into a million pieces or telling Shane Douglas how he would beat him for his belt in x amount of time, they all tapped out. Do you remember his debut in the Garden? When he got the Taz-mission on Angle half the building shit their pants screaming because they knew it was lights out.

 

[Wald]

Kayfabe I think it has to go to either Bret or Angle, probably Bret as I can only ever remember the Undertaker breaking out of the Sharpshooter in the WWF.

Benoit was great, but his holds got reversed too much or the opponent got to the ropes.

 

[Skinsley]

he also came up with the "Crippler Crossface" hold, not the late Chris Benoit.

And there was me thinking it was Gene Labell who invented the so called Labell lock/ Crippler Crossface. Silly me.

During Malenko's and Guerrero's feud's over the years in all sorts of promotions, loads and loads of different submission moves were utilized throughout the matches. Liontamer/WallsOfJericho was always my favourite submission and the Angle lock always looked boring in my eyes.
But Ric Flair was the man who put submission moves back on the map with the Fig4.....being able to reverse it by turning on your front made the battle to make the other guy tap out that little more entertaining and allowed the submission spot to be entertaining for a much longer amount of time.

Daniel Bryan is claiming he knows 100s of submissions and uses many during some matches.

But in the end, the man who was always known for knowing his holds was Malenko so I will have to throw him my vote. Shame the guys look was so boring and Generic. I never really liked him.

 

[rzombie1988]

Depends on where you want to go with this but some choices are:

- Skayde - He's the best llave style wrestler on the planet and has trained most of the Japanese indy scene. He's forgotten more submissions than most have learned.

- Volk Han - He was a shoot style wrestler for RINGS and he was a master submission artist.