Which was the most important move in the WCW/WWF War?

[Tastycles]

The Monday Night Wars were obviously the most interesting thing that has happened in wrestling history, and they were defined by talent jumping ship from one side to the other. The purpose of this thread, very simply, is to say which you think was the biggest moves. To make it easier for everyone, I've made a shortlist to refresh your memories along with reasons and reasons not to believe it was these people:

Before Nitro

Hulk Hogan to WCW

Hulk Hogan was the biggest name in wrestling at the time, and of all time. That in itself should be the reason why you think it should be him, as should the fact that the huge wave of popularity WCW garnered had him at the crest in the nWo. However, one may question the move itself, because Hogan was in WCW for a long time doing absolutely nothing before that angle began.

Randy Savage to WCW

Hogan's move could be seen as an anomaly, just like the man himself, but Savage's heralded the start of a proper mass exodus of talent moving southbound. Savage's move caught the WWE off guard, and that was huge. However, he was on the wane in WWE at the time, and the company was able to pass the whole thing off with the Billionaire Ted segments later on.

Stunning Steve Austin to WWF via ECW

WCW let go the man who would ultimately be the second biggest draw in wrestling history, and he ended up in WWF after honing his skills elsewhere. This is certainly the man who influenced the outcome so much, but his stopover at ECW and his time as the Ringmaster helped him become an entirely different proposition altogether than the man WCW let slip away.

WCW in the ascendancy

Lex Luger to WCW

On the first ever Nitro, Luger showed up out of nowhere. He was at that point a huge star in the WWF and he showed up on WCW, which made the company look fresh and like where the big stars wanted to be. On the other hand, he wasn't really a big part of any of the truly memorable aspects of WCW,

Razor Ramon to WCW

Scott Hall was the first of the nWo to show up and the first of WWF's up and comers to be lured away by WCW's dollars. His appearance single handedly ended WWF's claim that they were the keepers of young talent and his arrival set about the chain of events that would lead to the biggest angle of all time and WCW's period of total dominance. On the negative side of things, he was always overshadowed by the other members of the nWo and never established himself as a main eventer.

Diesel to WCW

For all the same reasons that Hall should be considered, so should Nash. He was a younger star that was a huge deal in the WWF, and had been their longest serving champion since Hulk Hogan only a few years previously. However, he was obviously not as original as Scott Hall's arrival and perhaps more to the point ultimately brought the company as much negativity as positivity with his egocentric booking.

Rick Rude to WCW

Rude's move maybe wasn't that significant in the sense that he wasn't an active wrestler, but he made the WWF look stupid and small time by appearing on Nitro clean shaven an hour before being on Raw with a beard. This is the point at which WWF looked as smallfry as they ever did, and WCW looked like a big deal. Of course, managing Curt Hennig was probably not the most important role to be filled during the MNW though.

Bret Hart to WCW

Bret Hart's move was key for two reasons. Firstly it was a WWF career man and multiple time World Champion heading to a different company, showing that the wheels were really falling off. Secondly, Mr. McMahon was born in the way that the move happened, so we're told. I'm not so sure about that, but what I am sure of is that Bret Hart had almost no impact in WCW whatsoever. "They don't know how to book a Bret Hart" said McMahon, and he was right.

WWF fights back

Syxx to WWF

This was the first guy who had any serious run in WCW to come back to the WWF. At a time when everyone had been headed the other way for years, he came back, the week after WWF had stopped the rot in the ratings and showed that this war wasn't one sided after all. The con? Well, he's Sean Waltman, not Hulk Hogan.

The Giant to WWF

Paul 'The "The Big Show" Giant' Wight arrived at WWF as a huge name, in a major storyline, having been the WCW Champion previously. He was the first huge name to move in this direction, but he did so having lost a lot of steam in WCW, and having been out of the proper main event for a couple of years.

Chris Jericho to WWF

Jericho wasn't a world champion in WCW. He never main evented. He never even held the US title. But that was precisely why this move was so big. WCW had long been allowing their own talented youngsters to waste away whilst the old guys stayed on top. Jericho was the first guy to realise his potential and to do so he had to leave the company. On the other hand, so badly had he been used in WCW, I doubt they saw it as a loss.

Vince Russo to WCW

Everyone has an opinion on Russo. The one thing people agree on is that he influenced this period of wrestling immensely. He is credited with the success of WWF and the failure of WCW, so clearly his move played a big part in his story in both companies. On the other hand, WCW was certainly already beginning to fall apart before he got there, and WWF carried on regardless, suggesting he wasn't that vital anymore.

Chris Benoit to WWF

I know there were 4 Radicalz, but only one of them was the serving WCW Champion. Benoit had been in WCW for years and his move is often seen as the final nail in their coffin talent wise. Benoit should have been WCWs next big thing but instead he went to WWF, dissatisfied. The negative would be that WCW was so far down the shitter by then that this move didn't really matter.

Other

There were plenty of other moves during the Monday Night Wars, but I don't think there were any as significant as those mentioned. Perhaps you do, perhaps Eddie Guerrero moving was of importance. Perhaps it was Curt Hennig. Perhaps it was Virgil. Whatever, which move do you think was most important in this period?

 

[klunderbunker]

Other.

Ted DiBiase going to WCW did something huge for WWF: it freed Steve Austin. DiBiase was stolen by WCW and was a cool guy to have because he gave the NWO some credibility through him financing them, but at the ssame time Austin had no manager now and the WWF threw up their hands and said let's just let him act like he does in real life and the Rattlesnake was born. He saved the company and did more than any single person to save the company. DiBiase leaving was something that got the WWF freedom which they desperately needed for Austin. Easily him.

 

[SickJames]

Hogan by far, without him I dont think the nWo thing wouldve worked as well and that was WCW's biggest thing in the MNWI besides Goldberg

Hogan is imo TNA's biggest thing in the MNWII along with Flair

So Hogan gave WCW big momentum

 

[NaturallyPricele$$]

Other:

Tony Schiavonne giving away Mick Foley's WWF Championship win



WCW had an advantage going into each Monday night. Raw was taped, Nitro was live. WCW knew going into their broadcast what their competition was doing and could counter. They had a huge advantage. Instead of basing their live product around the taped, they thought what better idea would it be to just give away the Raw results. It worked a few times but one night they announced Mick Foley would be winning the WWF Championship. Myself, like millions of other Nitro viewers immediately turned the channel. Why should I watch another NWO match that ends with a DQ when I can turn it on Raw and see a guaranteed title change??? They ended the announcement with the statement, "That should put some butts in the seats." How true that statement was. Nitro never again beat Raw in the ratings.

 

[InterestingDrug]

Hogan to WCW was the biggest move of those listed. WWF was reeling after Hogan signed. Adding Savage helped, but Hogan was the big splash needed to put WCW on the map.

Benoit to WWF was also a huge move here. The, then, WCW champion jumping ship right after going over at a PPV. Huge! This was a huge dagger that WCW could not recover from.

I think Eric Bischoff taking over WCW was a huge item as well.

 

[Rasha]

Hall & Nash to WCW really has to be the biggest move, because with them came the NWO angle, Hogan's heel turn, Sting's transformation, and all of the things that put WCW on top and made it a "war" to begin with. The Outsiders were what made the NWO popular. They also really started the movement toward "fan favorite heels" that eventually led to guys like Austin, Rock, and DX being cheered.

 

[Vintage Nick]

I voted for "Stunning Steve Austin" to WWF, because after they scooped him up, they gave him a proper gimmick that every working employee can get behind: A guy that hates his boss and beats the fuck out of him.

Austin would end up being one of the biggest draws the wrestling business has ever seen. The second you hear the glass break, the crowd blows the roof off of the building and sending it to orbit around Earth while Stone Cold Steve Austin would kick ass, take names, and drink beer. Even to this day he is revered as one of the WWF/E's top guys, and just by saying his name the crowd goes into a wild frenzy.

I should also add that Austin's move to WWF also helped in getting the Attitude Era kicked into full gear, and the WWF would go on to demolish the ratings.

 

[LongHessa]

Hogan going to WCW is really what started this whole thing, and the n.w.o angle followed by Austin uprising are all huge factors, but im going with other. The channel changer Shawn Michaels is the key here people. In the middle of HBK's first title run in 96' is when WCW started beating WWF constantly for 2 straight years..until when you ask? The week after WM 14, which just happens to be the same time the Boy Toy was off WWF TV. I was 14-16 at the time and I can tell you that every "guy" hated Michaels, he was ultra gay and we all laughed at his homo erotic behavior...and yes, everyone i knew turned the channel when the "sexy boy" hit the screen. Now I know you HBK marks will chalk this up as a coincedence but your just in denial...It's simple: HBK with belt = WCW starts winning. HBK leaves company = WWF starts winning. Its a fact JACK.

 

[JJohns]

Honestly for me, I went with Other because while Benoit going to WWE from WCW was Huge, it wouldn't have been quite as big as it was had Eddie, Saturn and Malenko not come in ON THE SAME NIGHT! This isn't like Hall and Nash coming to WCW, where you had Hall come in, and then Nash. By then, everyone knew the score. When the Radicalz appeared on Raw, it was ONE DAY AFTER a WCW Pay Per View, one that everyone brings up that Benoit won the title at, but would Benoit have won the title under a different circumstance, had they not been trying to keep him from jumping?

 

[Dan E. Inferno]

I had to go for the most obvious answer, that being Hulk Hogan to WCW. I was tempted to go for something different and strongly considered Austin, Jericho and Russo but I believe Hogan is the right choice.

At the time, it simply had a huge impact on wrestling and changed the face of wrestling for several years. It was this move that essentially began the WCW/WWF war and, although in the end WWF came out on top, it put WCW right up there as THE best in the industry. I mean this is the biggest star in wrestling history that has jumped ship.

Also, the way his move to WCW was portrayed in the secret member story and Hogan's shocking heel turn makes this move even more important. I know its a predictable answer but I also believe its the right one.

 

[scorpioking1026]

Good discusion. I can't pick just one so instead I have 3.

1) The NWO growing too big Once the NWO started to recruit guys like Buff Bagwell, Norton, and Virgil, really the concept started to go stale. A stable should never be that big or at the very least if they were going to do the whole "invasion" angel and have the NWO take over they should have only concentrated on recruiting the prime talent like a Jericho, Bennoit, etc. With this growth came Dibasie leaving Austin, Rude's very anti-WWE rant (which at the time I do beleive really hurt WWE) and also Bret Hart. So really it was the growth of the NWO that brought about everything else.

2) Kevin Sullivan becomes head booker This move would really turn out to be the final nail in the coffin due to the friction between Sullivan and Bennoit. Sullivan was the reason why Bennoit left for WCW, even after winnning the title and he brought along the rest of the Radicalz.

3) Shane Douglas bolts for ECW Long before Bennoit did what he did to WCW, Shane Douglas did it to NWA after winning the tournament for the title. His "screw this, I'm going to ECW" was pure classic. With that move came the era of "Extreme" and without ECW how would have the careers of guys like Stone Cold, Jericho, Guerreo, Malenko, Mysterio, and Pillman turn out. ECW deserves credit for the success of the Monday Night Wars and this moment helped to start it off.

Edit: After I posted this I looked up the Shane Douglas incident on the internet. He was already apart of ECW, then known as Eastern Championship Wrestling, when he won the NWA title. At the time they had the same kind of deal that TNA-NWA had. So although he didn't jump ship like Nash, Hall, etc his throwing down of the NWA title did lead to the ECW that we all know and love. I remember seeing this happen on TV when I was a kid and I could have sworn that NWA was associated with WCW when it happened. Oh well, I still think it deserves to be #3 on my list.

 

[thesubverse]

It's interesting to note how many people are picking Hogan going to WCW. Sure, that was a big move and one of the most important, but it wasn't the biggest. Eric Bischoff and others like to brag about how many weeks in a row they beat the WWF--again, a big deal and nothing they shouldn't brag about.

The fact remains, though, WCW lost the war. You can point to a million different reasons as to why it happens, but WCW lost. I find it hard to believe that any positive move WCW made as being the biggest and most impotrant move during the war because they lost.

 

[Shocky]

I have to go with the Big show jumping ship the WWF. Like Tasty said, he wasn't the first WCW guy to jump ship, but he was certainly the best to go (X-Pac was a steaming pile of horse shit). here you had a guy that was a beast in the ring, had the size and the look to be in and around the main event scene for years to come (um, he still is 11 years later), and he was completely and utterly buried in WCW.

Paul Wight jumping ship and showing up during the cage match was legit awesome. The WWE played up his arrival so damn well, and got him involved in the main event right away. It had long time WWE fan boys drooling at the prospects of more WCW guys jumping ship. He was the first main eventer to jump, and then the WWE just started rolling from there.

Big Show jumped ship, and opened up the door for guys like Jericho,a nd then the ultimate nail int he coffin, the juming of the Radicalz which effectively killed WCW's mid card.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

The Biggest move in the Monday night wars, was none other then... The Montreal Screw Job. The WWE sent their very last big draw to WCW, and put a focus on the new guys, such as HHH, the Rock, Stone Cold, and the old tiger known of the Undertaker. They got rid of all of their old main event talent of the early 90's, and late 80's, and started marketing the attitude era.

The spawn of the attitude era was huge, because it slowly gnawed at the ratings of WCW. Then another big move, that got other media involved was Mike Tyson added to the main event of Wrestle mania. Wrestle mania 15 was in my opinion and big deal for the WWF. It gave them a huge boost in the ratings, and it launched the reign of stone cold.

After Stone Cold became the new champion, Austin vs. McMahon was the main storyline. The fans got into, because it was an employee who got treated like crap giving it back to his boss. What white colored American wouldn't what that, to take out an ass hole boss.

The Storyline gave time to develop other new talent, such as The Rock, and HHH, Mick Foley as well. A mid-card that without a shadow of a doubt, that drew in more fans.

So, Bret Hart to WCW was a huge move, because WWF knew what they were doing with their talent, WCW just paid anyone who main evented in WWF big cash to do nothing. Which sucks, because if they used Bret Hart according to plan, they could of took advantage of the ratings.

Reason I didn't pick Hogan, well because it took a while for WCW to get a Monday night time slot after the contract, The nWo was amazing storyline, but management never utilized it's real potential... Meaning, they never turned it into it's own Brand. They left it as a stable, which that's how it started, however when they announced Thunder to a Thursday line up, it should of been nWo thunder. Yea it sounds weird, but it would of truly made WCW into a serious sporting event. Then last and not least why I didn't pick Hogan, was he was the demise of WCW. He should of told Bischoff that this finger poke business is stupid. Just have a real match, and have Goldberg go Heel, and join nWo Hollywood. But instead, this combined the nWo fractions, and tried to say it was a swerve. Yea no one was expecting it, but no one was expecting green ketchup to taste good. Yea, it tasted like Ketchup, but it still freaked people out.

 

[ckoneagain]

The way i see it, i voted for Hogan to WCW, but not because it was good for them, but rather his moving to WCW was actually good for WWF, i mean he pretty much hogged the main even scene in WWF, but with him gone followed by other big names, it mean that younger fresher guys could step up and be given the time they needed to become true stars who would then go on to basically outlast the older guys who fled to WCW. Game over at that point in my opinion. If hogan hadn't have gone over, im not so sure WWF would have won the war...discuss

 

[Devlin]

The biggest thing directly done (i.e: not Million $ man going to WCW which freed up Stone Cold as that was just an unexpected result) has to be Hogan going to WCW.

He launched WCW to another level, without him I don't think WCW would have been as big as it was. He brought in so much media attention & so many new fans, as well as being a key player in the whole nWo storyline that helped WCW beat the WWF for almost 2 years that it would be preposterous for anything else to even be considered. The only other thing close would be the outsiders going to WCW as they were the other key members in the nWo and gave Nitro a feeling of "What's going to happen next?"

 

[wazaveli]

Id say it has to be Hogan because while he was doing nothing for 2 years, what he eventually did helped contribute to the success and assist the demise of the company he was fighting for or a part of during that Monday Night War.

Hogan wasn't just a big star in the WWF, he was the WWF in my opinion. He was wrestling at the time. He was able to go from being he biggest face in history to being one of the most effective heels ive ever seen, the man just pissed you off.

For those reasons Hogans move to WCW has to be seen as the biggest one during the Wars.

 

[cawsnallthis]

The answer is other, and all the other reasons combined aren't as important as this other, because it ended the Monday Night Wars. Ted Turner selling out to Time Warner was the death knell of WCW. Ted was a huge wrestling mark and gave WCW carte blanche to spend millions as they saw fit. When WCW came under the corporate umbrella of TW, they became accountable to their board and no longer enjoyed the bottomless pits of Turner's pockets. The board didn't think "wrasslin" fit their corporate image and turned off the money spigot. Then, it was just a matter of time, before they imploded under Vince's pressure and their own massive egos.

 

[gbaby_steve25]

Ok so just so i know... was it not Hogan who left WCW months before they finally fully colapsed because of the way it was going. Once Russo took over, Hogan bolted cause he knew there was nothing he could do to save it. People like Sting, and Ric Flair, they couldnt find it in there hards to abandon the ship they helped set sail. (like the captain and his ship). othere wise i think they would have split too.

As for my pick well I have to go with OTHER! I dont think anyone in particular switching sides helped either company rise or fall. The thing that did it was the product itself. If you go back in look on youtube at videos from the WcW End of Days Era- 1999-2001, you find that matches are way to predictable and that the people involved in them were the wrong people... i.e. The Cat, Jeff Jarrett, Billy Kidman, Scott Steiner, Mike Awesome, Jung Dragons, these were not people who should be highlighting (not neccesarily main eventing, but highlighting) shows. And yes Vince Russo on screen was the wrost idea ever. The WWF at this time saw the product was stale and created a fresh new product, like Stone Cold saving the boss daughty from the Undertaker, Breaking up DX after a year knowing it was getting old, using big name stars with maineventers, oh and not letting David Arquette becoming champion helped them as well. All and all at the end of the wars, WCW had the talent to still run, but the way the company was run was what shut them down and lead to an end in the wars.

I know that many people will argue with me on this, but this is the problem with the WWE now. It is all to predictable, the excitement is gone (went with the pg13 rating) and on top of that, there havent been any new stars that just push the envelope and make you say OMG this guy is f*ing cool, im coming back next week to see what this guy does. Instead its always the same... Legacy vs Orton, go figure knew it was coming, Cena vs Batista... seen it, Triple H vs that irish dude... Edge vs Jericho... again who cares cause they both make better heels and it just doesnt work with Edge as a semi-face, all WWE has going for them (and if they deliver perfect) is Undertaker Michaels II and Hart vs McMahon.

So you see it wasnt a specific wrestler or person jumping ship, it was the product itself that was so big during this time frame.

 

[mrrrrrrrrr. kennedy!!!!!!]

i might be kinda bias here since i HATE eric bischoff but i think the biggest move is bischoff turning himself heel and joining the nwo.

i think wcw losing the "war" can be chalked up to eric bischoff getting way too wrapped up in the ratings and instaed of focusing on his show he focused on not losing to the wwf show and this especially started, at least on camara where its important and for everybody to see, when he turned himself heel. Now this is coming from me who was wcw all the way up until bischoff just got way too cocky and even challenged vince to a fight, a real fight!!! I mean whats the point of that and obviously vince didnt show up cuz he focused on his own product and thats why he won cuz he played to win, he didnt play not to lose like bischoff so he gets my vote.

 

[ecw6sic6]

Like so many others here, I voted for Hogan. I mean think about it. Everyone thought Hogan was done with wrestling, Hogan thought he was done with wrestling. He was comfortable pursuing his acting career and a chance meeting with Bischoff got him the gig in WCW. It was new and exciting at first seeing Hogan somewhere other than the WWF. But, lets face it, his "dream" program with Flair certainly did not live up to the hype and/or expectations. From there his WCW career hit a very early plateau. Then came the infamous turn in the summer of 1996. Anything thats ever made a true impact in wrestling has always been something that has never been done before, something truely unique and WCW hit the goldmine here. I watched WCW from time to time but never really cared enough to to stop watching Raw. When Hogan turned, forget about it and everyone knows that if you didn't watch WCW before the Hogan turn, you were watching afterward. The Hall and Nash "WWF Invasion" of WCW would not have meant nearly as much without Hogan. Then think about how many great feuds, how many other storylines branched off of the NWO storyline. If the WWF weren't losing viewers to WCW due to this angle, does anybody really think Vince would've taken the chances he did with Austin and D-X? No, there wouldn't have been a need to. We would've still been in the era of T.L. Hopper and Man Mountain Rock. Yes people could argue that Hogan and the NWO and their egos is what ultimately killed WCW, but that's not what this is about. This is about whose jump made the most impact and bottom line, Hogan's move to WCW, more than anyone else's, sprung a chain of events that led to the Monday Night Wars.

 

[ScreaminNormanSmiley]

As a huge wcw follower during the majority of the wars i hate giving the top move to wwe but with their victory it is impossible to give a wcw move the edge. With that being said I would have to go with jericho jumping ship to wwe.

With wcw content with pushing only the same wrestlers week after week and year after year it was nearly impossible for any young wrestlers to move to the top. Jericho was extremely over but was never given the time or push he deservered.

When he went to wwe his debut was as memorable as they come and he has held nearly every title there is including the first undisputed championship. and now over ten years later he is the current world title holder and is thought of as one of the best in the world. He is the prime example of what wcw missed out on by refusing to push any new talent,causing them to become unbelievably stale, which is what i believe is what led to their downfall.

 

[TheThirdHebner]

I think many people are misunderstanding the intent of the TS. He doesn't mean "any significant event that happened during the war", like Bischoff turning heel or whatever. He means any wrestler that actually jumped from one organization to the other, out of those, which was the biggest.

In my opinion, it's clearly Scott Hall/Razor Ramon's move. His debut was revolutionary, and the beginning of maybe the greatest angle/stable in the history of wrestling. It completely changed the face of wrestling, suddenly WCW was a serious contender for the WWF, and was actually the bigger, more successful company, which is ridiculous when you understand the landscape of the industry.

While I understand the magnitude of Hogan coming over, he came over with a shadow hanging over him from the steroid scandal, and the immediate impact wasn't that great, with the terrible booking and angles that followed. It gave WCW legitimacy, I understand that, but I think the impact of Scott Hall's move was bigger.

 

[Davi323]

I chose "other" only for the reason that I feel Hall and Nash should have been grouped together as one "event". I understand they didn't both appear at the exact same time, but, that was purely for storyline purposes, they both came to WCW at the same time. Without Hall and Nash, fresh from their Razor Ramon and Diesel gimmicks, quite simply, there is no Monday Night War. WCW would never have proven to be reliable competition without the nWo, and while Hogan was a huge part of that, without Hall and Nash, there could not have been a nWo, and the monumental Hogan heel turn can't happen. A lot of things contributed to the wars, but for me, the critical piece of the puzzle, the one that allowed all the other ones to happen, was Hall and Nash.

 

[ncwriter2908]

I think it was definetly Hulk Hogan going to WcW. When Hulk left for WcW he was instanlty the biggest star. He was the man who put wrestling on the map. No matter what you think of him he is the reason why we have pro wrestling today well and Vince had something to do with it also..lol Anyway WcW was seen as a small time redneck southern company before Hogan came. When he walked in the doors he turned everyones head. It started making people think of WcW as more as a pro wrestling federation than just a small time promotion. It always produced one of the biggest fueds in WCW Flair vs Hogan. That helped WcW in the begining and then having the biggest face in wrestling history turn heel was genuis.

WCW wasnt full of main event mainstream guys at the time. They had Flair who was mainstream but that was about it. Sting to me is still in question as to if he was ever over as a mainstream guy because of himself or Hogan. I am not seeing this guy as a top draw leading man. WCW ratings didnt pick up until Hogan got there and now Sting wasnt the one raising TNA ratings either it was once again Hulk Hogan. It seems like Sting is riding the Hogan success train alot of times.

WCW needed Hogan they had no main event stars that people wanted to see beside Flair. WWE still had Bret Hart,HBK,Undertaker.

My second choice would have been Austin coming to WWE. He had a huge impact no doubt, but I think WWE would have still been successful without his arrival. They had another guy who was great coming up named THE ROCK!!

In closing it was purely Hulk Hogan. The whole NWO angle was what set WCW over the top. It was so original for us to see. Alot of people think the NWO went to long and had alot of failures but without Hogan and the NWO WcW would have remained small time and never been apart of the monday night wars.