Whats the difference between "reinventing" and "selling out?"

[FoleyIsGod]

HAfter reading several valid posts in this section(great idea for a tournament, im looking forward to see who is the god of Rock ), It got me thinking.

When does a band stop being called reinventers and then into names such as jumping on the bandwagon or selling out to make more money?

I have seen quite a few bands submit to selling out, Blink 182 being the biggest one. Pulling out of gigs due to "fatigue", yet show up the next night at the MTV music awards to collect an award for best rock band?

Or Lostprophets, who had an awesome rock/metal sounds who seemingly have jumped on the emo bandwagon to sell more records.

Just a question, hope for some valid points, not "zomg, you bashed Lostprophets, go die n00b".

 

[RVDgurl]

Most people will probably disagree with me on this, but I really hate the term "selling out". I don't feel it's a valid explanation for a band changing their sound. Every band is going to evolve and change as they incorporate new influences and explore new topics for lyrics. It's never a bad thing for a band expand their audience and experiement with new sounds. It's called staying fresh.

I will use Metallica as an example, since they're my favorite band. Alot of people have said that Metallica sold out because they started making music videos, incorporating melodies and used other instruments into their songs. I think that is totally unfair to presume that they should keep making Kill 'Em All for their entire career. How boring would that be if every Metallica album sounded exactly the same? It would definately get old after a while, no matter how great the sound is.

I think the terms "reinventing" and "selling out" mean pretty much the same thing. If a fan likes the new sound, then they will use the word "reinventing". If they are not keen on the new sound, then they will use the term "selling out".

 

[justinsayne]

Most people will probably disagree with me on this, but I really hate the term "selling out". I don't feel it's a valid explanation for a band changing their sound. Every band is going to evolve and change as they incorporate new influences and explore new topics for lyrics. It's never a bad thing for a band expand their audience and experiement with new sounds. It's called staying fresh.

I fully agree with you on this, it's nice to see their are other people out there that actually understand that just because a band changes doesn't mean they are selling out

I will use Metallica as an example, since they're my favorite band. Alot of people have said that Metallica sold out because they started making music videos, incorporating melodies and used other instruments into their songs. I think that is totally unfair to presume that they should keep making Kill 'Em All for their entire career. How boring would that be if every Metallica album sounded exactly the same? It would definately get old after a while, no matter how great the sound is.

Yeah people will list all of those reason for why Metallica "sold out" but my all time favorite would have to be when people say that they "sold out" cause they all cut their hair

People will list any stupid reason for why they think a band "sold out" the fact of the matter is most of those people were fans of the band from when they were unknown for the most part, and see that the band has acheived huge mainstream success and are pissed at the band for becoming successful cause they feel that they have lost something special, that being the feeling of being part of a cult fan following

I think the terms "reinventing" and "selling out" mean pretty much the same thing. If a fan likes the new sound, then they will use the word "reinventing". If they are not keen on the new sound, then they will use the term "selling out".

Couldn't have said it better myself

You see this a lot with Green Day right now, a lot of the older Green Day fans claim they sold out with American Idiot, personally I find that statement to be completely stupid, Green Day went out on a limb and try something different, even when they were making this album they (and their record company) had fear of what could happen with the release of American Idiot, fortunately what they did worked and they produced a great album, they didn't sell out they just tried something different and it worked

All bands change with time, if the fans don't like the new sound or approach the band is taking then they can always just go back and listen to the older stuff

 

[RVDgurl]

I fully agree with you on this, it's nice to see their are other people out there that actually understand that just because a band changes doesn't mean they are selling out


Yeah people will list all of those reason for why Metallica "sold out" but my all time favorite would have to be when people say that they "sold out" cause they all cut their hair

People will list any stupid reason for why they think a band "sold out" the fact of the matter is most of those people were fans of the band from when they were unknown for the most part, and see that the band has acheived huge mainstream success and are pissed at the band for becoming successful cause they feel that they have lost something special, that being the feeling of being part of a cult fan following

You see this a lot with Green Day right now, a lot of the older Green Day fans claim they sold out with American Idiot, personally I find that statement to be completely stupid, Green Day went out on a limb and try something different, even when they were making this album they (and their record company) had fear of what could happen with the release of American Idiot, fortunately what they did worked and they produced a great album, they didn't sell out they just tried something different and it worked

All bands change with time, if the fans don't like the new sound or approach the band is taking then they can always just go back and listen to the older stuff

Wow. I'm glad to see someone agrees with me! Thanks Justin! And I know you are a fellow metal fan; I find that metal fans are particularly fond of using the term "sell out". I think you hit the nail on the head in regard to the fans who are like the unknown bands then call them sell out when they become successful. I think that's very true, but it's something I will never understand. When did being successful become so bad? That's like saying that a minor league baseball player is selling out because he is called up to the major leagues. That's absolutely absurd!

 

[Jonny B]

Most people will probably disagree with me on this, but I really hate the term "selling out". I don't feel it's a valid explanation for a band changing their sound. Every band is going to evolve and change as they incorporate new influences and explore new topics for lyrics. It's never a bad thing for a band expand their audience and experiement with new sounds. It's called staying fresh.

The meaning of the word Selling Out gets lost in translation so badly. People think that by changing your sound or even getting signed to a major record label is selling out, well I have news for all these people in the immortal words of xfear your all fucking morons. The term selling out is defined basically as doing something for money that is against your own principals, which is why it's very hard to tell if a band has sold out unless they have gone on record as saying they would never do something, then had a bunch of money thrown at them and actually done it.

My friends and I were having this argument the other day, I was saying that basically if a record label offered my band a deal but we had to change our sound slightly that I'd do it, they thought it was the very definition of selling out... but since it's what I want and I dont write the music it really isn't.

 

[RVDgurl]

The meaning of the word Selling Out gets lost in translation so badly. People think that by changing your sound or even getting signed to a major record label is selling out, well I have news for all these people in the immortal words of xfear your all fucking morons. The term selling out is defined basically as doing something for money that is against your own principals, which is why it's very hard to tell if a band has sold out unless they have gone on record as saying they would never do something, then had a bunch of money thrown at them and actually done it.

My friends and I were having this argument the other day, I was saying that basically if a record label offered my band a deal but we had to change our sound slightly that I'd do it, they thought it was the very definition of selling out... but since it's what I want and I dont write the music it really isn't.

Agreed. Also, I would like to point out the key phrase in your response that I bolded. Doing something just for the mere fact of making more money is probably the only real way that a band can sell out. And that is hard to prove. Again, I refer to Metallica who, in the past, has gone on record to say that they would never make a music video. However, the choice to make a music video was just another avenue for them to express their music and get it to the masses. It wasn't a money making scheme that made them instantly rich.

You also made a good point in another thread in regard to Green Day. Alot of people say they sold out with American Idiot, yet it is their best selling album. It's amazing how quickly people will abandon their favorite band just because they have success.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

Agreed. Also, I would like to point out the key phrase in your response that I bolded. Doing something just for the mere fact of making more money is probably the only real way that a band can sell out. And that is hard to prove. Again, I refer to Metallica who, in the past, has gone on record to say that they would never make a music video. However, the choice to make a music video was just another avenue for them to express their music and get it to the masses. It wasn't a money making scheme that made them instantly rich.

You also made a good point in another thread in regard to Green Day. Alot of people say they sold out with American Idiot, yet it is their best selling album. It's amazing how quickly people will abandon their favorite band just because they have success.

I think its more of the fact that Greenday changed thier look and sound sligthly to be more "emo" that may have helped them make that album a best seller. All the emo girls say "zomg, the lead singer is well fitttttttttt"(that was taken from a myspace profile). Like when Dookie was around, you didnt know who Greenday was. It was more of a friend of a friend lent you a cd, made you listen to a song that grabbed you. Hell, my sister even owns the Greenday album, yet she didnt even know about Dookie!

Its that kind of fan that really pisses me off, those people who think bands such as Greenday are "new", yet cannot be bothered to spend 5 minutes looking through there local record stores back catalogue or even checking out wikipedia. Its not hard to find things like that out. The same with some fans of Foo Fighters have no idea Grohl was in Nirvana.

This why I really get fucked off with "fans" of a cetain band, who slag off a band they never even heard because it hasnt been on the Top 40 in the past month. Example being, I knew a lass who thought that Foo Fighters were the greatest band in the world. Yet when I asked her what did she think of bands like Nirvana, she said they were shit due "to only hearing one song that sounded a bit shouty". Or emo kiddies who say Kurt Cobain was shit, yet he was doing the whole "im depressed, i need help(and genually meaning it)" type of songs when they were still floating around thier dads ballbags. Or the type of fan who slags off Jimi Hendrix as being "old", yet love the whole guitar solo thing.

Thats is why things like this tournament are needed. It ahs introduced me to a hell of a lot of bands I didnt really hear before (Silverchair, NIN and Rage against the Machine being 3 of the top of my head) and makes me appreciate some of the bands that have been featured here.

 

[RVDgurl]

I think its more of the fact that Greenday changed thier look and sound sligthly to be more "emo" that may have helped them make that album a best seller. All the emo girls say "zomg, the lead singer is well fitttttttttt"(that was taken from a myspace profile). Like when Dookie was around, you didnt know who Greenday was. It was more of a friend of a friend lent you a cd, made you listen to a song that grabbed you. Hell, my sister even owns the Greenday album, yet she didnt even know about Dookie!

Personally, I think Green Day look more "Punk" than ever. There sound has always been pop-punk and I think it's the pop portion that helps them sells records. I have no idea how old you are, but I was in high school when Dookie was released and it was incredibly popular. MTV played Longview and Basketcase non stop as did every local rock and pop radio station. Green Day was every bit as popular back then as they were with American Idiot.

Its that kind of fan that really pisses me off, those people who think bands such as Greenday are "new", yet cannot be bothered to spend 5 minutes looking through there local record stores back catalogue or even checking out wikipedia. Its not hard to find things like that out. The same with some fans of Foo Fighters have no idea Grohl was in Nirvana.

I get what you are saying here. I think to truly appreciate a band, you need to be familiar with their entire history. In regard to your example of the Foos and Nirvana- I'm not a fan of Nirvana but I like the Foos. The fact that Dave Grohl was a drummer in Nirvana makes me appreciate his talent as a singer and guitarist in the Foos.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

Personally, I think Green Day look more "Punk" than ever. There sound has always been pop-punk and I think it's the pop portion that helps them sells records. I have no idea how old you are, but I was in high school when Dookie was released and it was incredibly popular. MTV played Longview and Basketcase non stop as did every local rock and pop radio station. Green Day was every bit as popular back then as they were with American Idiot.

I am 22, the only way I found out about bands like Greenday and Nirvana were word of mouth, as the scene when I was growing up (14/15) was all the new metal craze. I did like the Offpsring before, but after listening to Smash album, nothing can top that and that is why it is the ebst selling indie album of all time.

 

[Jonny B]

I think its more of the fact that Greenday changed thier look and sound sligthly to be more "emo" that may have helped them make that album a best seller. All the emo girls say "zomg, the lead singer is well fitttttttttt"(that was taken from a myspace profile).

Your going to have to forgive me, I am about to go xfear on you simply because that's the most uninformed post of all time.

You first need to watch this video, the one from Woodstock in 1994. You know 11 Years before American Idiot came out... oh and what is that Billie Joe Armstrong is wearing... a fucking skinny red tie and a short sleeved black shirt... the look he supposedly changed to when American Idiot came out to look more Emo and appeal to the Myspace generation. What a load of fucking crap.

[youtube]PtF1Nk4vIUA[/youtube]

Like when Dookie was around, you didnt know who Greenday was. It was more of a friend of a friend lent you a cd, made you listen to a song that grabbed you. Hell, my sister even owns the Greenday album, yet she didnt even know about Dookie!

Do you know anything about Green Day, if you'd replaced Dookie with Kerplunk or 1039 Smoothed out Slappy Hour then you might have been on the money. Dookie sold over 13 Million copies worldwide can you even fathom how big they were in 1994? They played Woodstock for christs sake, they were one of the biggest bands on the planet at the time, not some word of mouth underground band.

Its that kind of fan that really pisses me off, those people who think bands such as Greenday are "new", yet cannot be bothered to spend 5 minutes looking through there local record stores back catalogue or even checking out wikipedia. Its not hard to find things like that out. The same with some fans of Foo Fighters have no idea Grohl was in Nirvana.

Your sir are an elitest and honestly there is nothing worse. So Green Day appealed to new younger fans that are probably not even old enough to have known about Dookie when it came out, big deal. They are the one's making Millions of Dollars and making damn good music while they are at it, who cares if some little kid loves them, it should be about you and what you like not about everyone else.

This why I really get fucked off with "fans" of a cetain band, who slag off a band they never even heard because it hasnt been on the Top 40 in the past month. Example being, I knew a lass who thought that Foo Fighters were the greatest band in the world. Yet when I asked her what did she think of bands like Nirvana, she said they were shit due "to only hearing one song that sounded a bit shouty". Or emo kiddies who say Kurt Cobain was shit, yet he was doing the whole "im depressed, i need help(and genually meaning it)" type of songs when they were still floating around thier dads ballbags. Or the type of fan who slags off Jimi Hendrix as being "old", yet love the whole guitar solo thing.

It's personal preference I know plenty of people that love the Foo Fighters but hate Nirvana, they dont go hand in hand genre wise and it's easy to understand why people would like one and possibly not like the other. I'm a big Foo Fighters fan, but not a big Nirvana fan... Nirvana were a great band but their sound just isn't always to my liking.

Thats is why things like this tournament are needed. It ahs introduced me to a hell of a lot of bands I didnt really hear before (Silverchair, NIN and Rage against the Machine being 3 of the top of my head) and makes me appreciate some of the bands that have been featured here.

You'd never heard of Rage before now, or Silverchair or NIN? You really need to get out more Rage were at one point one of the biggest bands on the planet and probably still are today in terms of the genre they serve.