What's a sell out?

[Tastycles]

For some, espcially those of a punk persuasion, selling out is the worst thing a band can do. For different people exactly what selling out is is defined differently. For some, a change in musical direction is enough, especially if it goes poppier

The offspring are an example of this

[youtube]mCsnZG1Pfjo[/youtube]

to this

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for others its a change of personnel such as that of the clash

when they went from this

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to this

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for others its signing to a major label, like when the Smiths went from Rough Trade to Warner. and for some it is sell out when you make a recording. Whatever, there are some clear examples in the history of music.

Personally, I don't care fundamentally if a band want to make money then good luck to them. However, if it comes as a detriment to the music, then it is a little upsetting, but they're pleasing the majority. To me a sell out is a band that abandons their initial ideals in favour of making a quick buck. It is the bands who alienate the fans that made that are the sell outs in my eyes.

What about you? Is there such thing as a sell out in your opinion, or is it just people wanting to stand out making something up so they can stop liking something popular? What makes a sell out, if there is such thing?

 

[Ty Burna]

That's a very good question and you've briefly discussed a few of the reasons why people see bands or artists as sell outs Tastycles. To me, selling out is changing your music and your image in order to become more "Mainstream" friendly. Part of this could also be attributed to signing with a major label as well because usually when an up and coming artist signs with a major label, that artist typically doesn't get to control what kind of music he or she or they make. The record label usually gets to decide a good portion of what your music is going to sound like, so thus you are selling out your creative control for the ability to reach a broader audience. While obviously after so long you get that creative control back by either being successful or dropping off the major record label, you still had to give up portions of your musical freedom in order to be on that major label.

That is the essence of selling out, similar to what you said Tasty. They change their music because of the record labels forcing them to, in order to reach a broader audience and to make more money. Also doing projects that are not typical of you nor fit your image as an artists can be considered selling out as well.

 

[X]

Alot of people seem to make the mistake of labeling anyone who signs to a major record label as "sell outs". This is especially true in the case of punk rock. What these people don't realize is how incredibly wrong they are. Selling out isn't about making more money, it's about selling out your own principles in exchange to make that money.

A fine example of this, in my opinion, is Anti-Flag, a band I used to worship in my youth. I'm sorry, but when you're writing lyrics about being anti-corporation and then you're signed to one of the biggest music corporations in the world, that to me is selling out.

 

[The Bearded One]

Selling out is when a band changes their sound just to make more money. A band can go from an indie label to a major label and not sell out. That is just a way to get your music to more people, and more importantly make more money to support themselves. If the band doesn't change their sound, its not selling out.

I know a band's sound will change over time, thats natural. A band needs to evolve. But if a band changes it's sound overnight just for money, that is the definition of selling out to me.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

Yeah, I'd definately say it is only when a band changes their music for the purpose of pleasing their label and/or to appeal to a wider audience. Some bands, like Red Hot Chili Peppers, have become much more mainstream, but they were basically doing what they wanted so I don't consider that a sell out. If you do what Metallica did from Load to St Anger, changing your sound to please your producer and label (which is what I assume happened), that is to me selling out. Being signed to a label does not makie you a sell out obviously, name a band who revolutionized music and they were probably signed to a major label at some point.

 

[Blade]

What's sad is, today bands need to sell out a certain amount if they ever want thier music to reach a larger audience.
But yeah, selling out is when you become a complete hypocrite to make money. Here is the finest example of this:

*Warning* I urge any person who is a hardcore fan of the Sex Pistols to not watch this...

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That is selling out.

But I think you can only sell out if you think selling out is a big deal. Punk bands tell of how much they hate selling out. They think anything that involves them making money is selling out. Doing an ad, going on a TV show, changing their music even slightly.
Selling out amoung indy rock bands usually just involves sigining to a major record label.

But the sad thing is that they care so much. There's bands out there who don't really care if they sell out as long they get to make the music they believe in. Muse, Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins. They don't change their music or thier beliefs and they don't care about selling out. Companies have offered all these bands money to use their music in an ad. And they've accepted. They think "What the hell, we make a bit of cash and more people get to here our music."
These bands are the truly cool bands, not punk bands. These bands don't worry about whether or not they're selling out or making money fom it. Their music is being heard and that's what they care about.

 

[The Gribbler]

So often I hear this band or that band are sell outs, because they suddenly hit the big time. But so often I find myself asking if this is truly the case.

Say a band releases an album and gains an underground following, and for their second album they change up their style and suddenly their a smash hit.

Is it wrong for them to have done that? There is no way they could have known that they would take off when changing their style; they took a gambit and now they are popular.

What do fans want? Bands to play music so bad that they never become popular just so they are not labelled sell outs...

I don't know, maybe people just like complaining too much.

What does everyone think?

 

[NSL]

I think changing your sound in attempt to make money is fine. Lots of bands have done it, and for a long time, no one cared. I think the problem happens when a band gets paid a ton of money to change their sound. This is wat a true sell-out is, and it's a big problem in the music industry.

Writing the music you love, and trying to make money off it, is what the business was always about. Then labels and producers started paying artists huge chunks of money to change their sound, and then they lose the emotion that made their usic so good in the first place...

 

[The Dewbliners]

I personally don't believe in the whole "Sell-out" concept. I feel it's just a way for people to bitch about something, and be pretentious at the same time. It's basically provides music snobs a way to say, "Well, they used to be good, when I found out about them, but now they're popular, so it's beneath me."

Basically, a band is gonna evolve. Change it's sound up a bit. If they don't, it shows a lack of depth, makes them sound one dimensional. And, if they make an exhorbinant amount of money in the process, more power to them. Doesn't make them a bunch of sellouts. So, for all intents and purposes, "sellout" is cop-out for people who don't want bands to succeed.

 

[X]

The only time I'll call a band a sellout is if they sell out their own principles in exchange for money. This has happened quite a few times in the metal and punk communities, and it pisses me off royally. Not that these guys went out and want to make money, that's fine, but when you write lyrics for years about how much corporations suck, and then sign to the biggest music corporation on Earth to release your records, you're a fucking sellout, plain and simple, and you've lost my respect. Which is exactly what happened with one of my favorite bands as a kid, Anti-Flag. Great band for years, then they decided to soften their sound, sign to a huge label, and start releasing piss poor records. Their fans, myself included, rightfully have been pretty pissed at them since.

But yeah, most of the time when someone uses sellout they're just trying to find an excuse to insult a band. If the band does in fact compromise their own principles or sound in exchange for making more money though, then I have no respect for them. They're ****es, plain and simple.

 

[Mr. Steve]

Being a sell-out is not a matter of money. It's a matter of principle. You can't exactly go run around, shoving 16th distortion notes in pepoles faces, and yelling to the high heavens that big corporations should be burned to a crisp, only to retreat to the offices of Warner. I don't care what you are, punk, funk, or anything in between. If your second album is one of many that are and will be done to please the label people, you'll be labeled a sell-out. Hell, you'll be labeled a bitch, as a matter of fact.

Punk bands have that stigmata of signing with a major label, only to have the fans turn on you when the announcement is heard.

My point is this: bands should, and do evolve. It's just the way it goes. But it shouldn't happen at the cost of the member's principles. It's only natural for them to want to make money, and that's fine. But it shouldn't really happen when you lose sight of what got you those paychecks in the first place.