Whatever happened to 'paying your dues'??

[MisterB47]

This is my first post of a thread so bear with me. As we come to the pinnacle of the WWE year, WRESTLEMANIA, I wanted to reflect on the current crop of WWE superstars. I understand the WWE's move toward the youth and bringing up the youngsters to replace the veterans who only have a few years left in them. I understand the new generation need to come through to usher in the new age of the WWE but I couldn't help but wonder are the younger generation being pushed too soon, too early, why are some of these new superstars being put ahead of others who would be considered veterans, guys who have been there for many years but have never been rewarded. Which leads me to the title of this thread, whatever happened to paying your dues in wrestling? What ever happened working your way up through the ranks?

I look back at the legends and icons of the business, from Flair, Hogan, Sting, Luger, Hart, Michaels, Nash to Angle, Rock, Austin, Triple H, Guerrero and through their careers they had to work their way through the ranks and to the top. They went through the stages of being the young superstar, going up to the Mid card, holding a mid card title, may be a tag title hover around that stage for a few years then finally being brought into the main event.

Yet as I look at one of the main events, the WHC with Edge vs Del Rio, I see a superstar in Del Rio who has only really just started in the WWE and already he is shot straight to the main event, of the greatest show of them all Wrestlemania, where an how does he get put in front of others who have worked hard and been there for years plugging at it only to see some young guy push in infront of them.

Now this isn't a shot at Del Rio because I do think he is a star and can be as big a Guerrero and Mysterio one day. But this has been the trend on the last couple of years and I'm not sure it is fair. I'll give you the examples:

Alberto Del Rio - Debuts less than a year ago but wins the Royal Rumble and is already headlining wrestlemania.
Sheamus - where did he come from, debuts in the WWE and within a few short months he not only receives a title shot but a title reign, didn't even have enough time to really establish his character.
Jack Swagger - (a guy who I think could another Kurt Angle in terms of his skill) another one who came out of no where and gets his own title shot and reign.
Wade Barrett - I'm all for the NXT concept but the reward should not be a World Title shot. they are supposed to be 'rookies' yet they bypass everything and become maineventers straight away

Now I understand that there are the developmental territories and some may have already wrestled in other promotions, but especially for those who are still young, I feel it is unfair for those who have established themselves already like Chrisitian, Mark Henry, Kane (although he finally got his title reign 13 years after his debut) and others. It took others like Jeff Hardy almost 10 years to become main event.

Now I know that the youngs guys have to come through and become the new stars but I just feel that these guys get given this title sooner than the guys who paved the way for them and I feel this kinda takes away from the legacy that other superstarr and legends had to forge themselves. I could be totally wrong on this I just feel that for a superstar to be really taken serioulsy by the WWE universe it would be good to see them work their way up, build up their presence and then be bumped up into main event, not because the WWE wants to shove them in everyones face, but because they deserve it.

Thoughts???

 

[Zangash]

Some of the most talented SuperStars in the WWE are jobbers right now. The E is far from fair.

That being said, the reason for all these young guys getting pushed is because... there's nobody else. If Del Rio wasn't there, who would Edge face for the title? Kane? Psh.

Sheamus was actually around for quite a while before winning his first title. He started on ECW, but the WWE chooses to pretend like he never was. His character was pretty established by that point imo.

Jack Swagger had been around for... years... He debuted in 2008, won his first world title in 2010 (If you don't count the ECW title), and has since fallen into obscurity.

Wade Barret is... Wade fuckin Barret. Need I say more?

Honestly, if you've seen Barret OR Del Rio you'd be able to understand why they're main eventers. Both are excellent on the mic and in the ring and are much better performers than even these guys who have been around "paying their dues" for years. WWE is in a bad spot right now, as most of their established talent is no longer around.

 

[JaylisJayP]

I don't think WWE currently has the luxury of having talent pay its dues...as Zangash said.

They have no real talent past a handful of guys spread over 2 shows. They have plenty with potential but I'm not seeing the full package.

Alberto Del Rio - Has great potential, but he just feels like a mid-carder.

Morrison - No mic skills but a great performer

Ziggler - If he tweaks his mic skills a bit more he'll be a top heel in the future

Miz - People will get tired of him quickly. I applaud all the work he's done, but he's a total one-note character and not a great wrestler.

Dibiasi - They really pushed this guy back down...I think he's good. I'd like to see him in the title picture.

Rhodes - I like his current gimmick but he's still a ways away from being taken seriously.

Barrett - Not very entertaining in the ring, just has the look and the mic skills.

Otunga - No.

Kofi Kingston - No mic skills whatsoever...I've never had any interest in him. He'll never be more than a midcarder again.

R-Truth - A rather annoying character, I wish they'd do something different with him because I think he really can click with the right gimmick.

Sheamus - Another decent gimmick, strong mic skills...takes that brutal style to the ring well...why'd they bury this guy again?

Evan Bourne - No mic skills...but I guess that didn't really stop Rey Mysterio.



For me at the moment, the only guys I'm still remotely interested in are Cena, Orton, Punk, Edge and Christian...and hopefully they're done burying Christian and he's healthy. I used to love seeing HHH and Taker come out but they're done...you can tell. I have zero interest in their match at wrestlemania and both seem to just be going through the motions. HHH has no emotion in his speeches the way he used to.

 

[Machianzo]

Indeed, not only is Del Rio an excellent all round performer, but he did pay his dues in Mexico. He is by no means a "young" superstar, he's 33, and he's been wrestling in the Mexican companies since 2000.

Swagger, as its already been said, did work his way up, with his ECW championship reign and the large gap between that and winning the WHC. His regin as WHC may have been absolute shite, but I put that more down to creative than Swagger, as it really did seem he tried his best.

Barett may have had a shot at the world title, but he was in the only season of NXT to have that opportunity. Add to that, the fact that he didn't win, and right now in fact holds the IC title.

Sheamus is the hardest to defend, as even with his ECW run he wasn't around too long before getting the title. However, he is a great heel, another all round good performer, and as we all know, one of HHH's good friends.


Also, who else would have in 'Mania about now? Jericho is on hiatus, HBK is gone etc. There are a lot of arguments for Christian, but while I would love to see him at 'Mania, I can see the business sense in keeping him away from the title picture. That leaves us with veterans in...Edge, who is at 'Mania, Cena, ditto, Mysterio ditto (and perhaps putting over someone who has done his dues the old way) Big show and Kane, who look to be in line for a tag team title shot at 'Mania.

Also, Mark Henry? Seriously? After all these years, the man still cannot talk or wrestle. He's a big, immobile object more than a actual wrestler.

As for it taking Jeff Hardy a decade, thats becuase at that era of the WWF/E's existance, you had just had a massive influx of talent around the time the Hardy's split up. Despite being a great high flyer, he had no mic skills, and took awhile to get particularly over on his own. Then we all know what happend at the end of that story...

 

[Saeros]

To me, it doesnt matter if ADR paid his dues in mexico for 10 years or not. He's still new to the company, and when hes getting mega pushed above the likes of Christian, Morrison, Santino, Regal, Dibiase and Rhodes it does get on my nerves.

Those 6 i just mentioned have been in the E for at least 3 years each, in the case of Christian and Regal, 10+. And IMO, each is ME level worthy with the right push, whether its now or in the past.

Yet none of them have never been anywhere near the world title picture.

You can use the excuse of ADR paying dues in mexico for all the rest aswell.
Sheamus has been wrestling in the UK since the early 2000s aswell, Yet people still moaned about him not paying his dues.

In the old days, unless you were a huge star elsewhere, you'd pay your dues in the independants/territories, and then pay your dues in the WWE.

Del Rio may of been hugely known in mexico, but i can guarentee you the average WWE fan had never heard of him. Kind of reminds me of Bret Hart.

Paying your dues seems to have a different meaning nowdays. I always thought it meant paying your dues to the company that is looking to make you a star. Not paying your dues elsewhere to come to the biggest company and walk all over those that have worked their arses off the past 5 years just to get to midcard status

 

[cynic]

like the poster above said, I wouldn't call ADR young and he's paid his dues plenty in Mexico.
Personally, I think we as fans influence a lot of the pushes when the star in question instantly gets over (face or heel) due to the fans reaction to that particular individual. Del Rio was instantly accepted as a legitimate threat and main eventer which is down to the way he conducted himself after his debut. Same goes for Barrett, I doubt the WWE realised just what a great introduction they'd given him with Nexus and he made the most of all the mic time he was given so he deserves his push.
I'm with the OP on Swagger and Sheamus though, they probably would've benefitted better from a slower build up to give their characters time to develop

 

[MizFitAwesome]

You also forget Sheamus and Wade Berret spent years in developmental before coming to the WWE.

 

[rowingisgood11]

@Saeros
You would rather see William Fucking Regal then Alberto Del Rio or Sheamus? Or Santino? And you mention that Santino has "paid his dues" even though his first match he won a title? WWE has no one who has paid their dues who want to see wrestle a high quality match. Edge vs Del Rio will probably be match of the night because they're entertaining. WWE has no one who has paid their dues that we want to see wrestle at that event, yes Morrison I feel should be getting a better push but he'll sit where he is right now. There are no veterans that WWE has right now that they can say has paid their dues since they planned poorly on the future.

 

[Remix]

This is my first post of a thread so bear with me. As we come to the pinnacle of the WWE year, WRESTLEMANIA, I wanted to reflect on the current crop of WWE superstars. I understand the WWE's move toward the youth and bringing up the youngsters to replace the veterans who only have a few years left in them. I understand the new generation need to come through to usher in the new age of the WWE but I couldn't help but wonder are the younger generation being pushed too soon, too early, why are some of these new superstars being put ahead of others who would be considered veterans, guys who have been there for many years but have never been rewarded. Which leads me to the title of this thread, whatever happened to paying your dues in wrestling? What ever happened working your way up through the ranks?

The concept went obsolete. If the company sees money in a guy there's no point in wasting time with them toiling in the midcard when they could be making the company more money in the Main Event. Paying dues is an outdated concept, and if someone young guy is good enough to be in the main event then put them in the main event over the old guy who spends half the year on the bench.

I look back at the legends and icons of the business, from Flair, Hogan, Sting, Luger, Hart, Michaels, Nash to Angle, Rock, Austin, Triple H, Guerrero and through their careers they had to work their way through the ranks and to the top. They went through the stages of being the young superstar, going up to the Mid card, holding a mid card title, may be a tag title hover around that stage for a few years then finally being brought into the main event.

The world of wrestling has changed immensely since guys like 'Taker or even Angle was around. Back in 'Taker's day there were the terrirories, in Angle's there was WCW. Now there's no real competition to WWE on a local or national scale. Then it kind of made sence to make the newbies earn their place. You don't want to make these guys stars and then fuck off and make some other company money off of your hard work. Now though? Not so much.

Yet as I look at one of the main events, the WHC with Edge vs Del Rio, I see a superstar in Del Rio who has only really just started in the WWE and already he is shot straight to the main event, of the greatest show of them all Wrestlemania, where an how does he get put in front of others who have worked hard and been there for years plugging at it only to see some young guy push in infront of them.

They should deal with it and accept the fact that ADR is the right guy to be in that situation rather than them. Seeing as he's younger and probably better than they are.

Now this isn't a shot at Del Rio because I do think he is a star and can be as big a Guerrero and Mysterio one day. But this has been the trend on the last couple of years and I'm not sure it is fair. I'll give you the examples:

Sheamus - where did he come from, debuts in the WWE and within a few short months he not only receives a title shot but a title reign, didn't even have enough time to really establish his character.

Let's pretend that due paying actually made sence for a moment. Sheamus' are paid. He paid them when he spent 3 years on the british circuit and a further two in FCW setting up the ring, breaking it, selling leaflets and doing all the shit that would be considered "paying dues".

Jack Swagger - (a guy who I think could another Kurt Angle in terms of his skill) another one who came out of no where and gets his own title shot and reign.

See: Sheamus, only he'd been on the roster for two years and jobbed to FRICKING SANTINO.

Wade Barrett - I'm all for the NXT concept but the reward should not be a World Title shot. they are supposed to be 'rookies' yet they bypass everything and become maineventers straight away

See Sheamus only in developmental for three years, rebuilt his entire in ring style, come back from a severe injury and showed he could carry Raw based off his mic skills for the best part of 6 months. He EARNED his spot in the ME when he was carring the Nexus and more than paid his dues in OVW and FCW.

Now I understand that there are the developmental territories and some may have already wrestled in other promotions, but especially for those who are still young, I feel it is unfair for those who have established themselves already like Chrisitian,

Overrated and currently in the ME beating the number 1 contender to the World Heavyweight championship clean two weeks in a row.

Mark Henry

Awful.

Kane (although he finally got his title reign 13 years after his debut)

Chose the spot he's in, and it's not like he was EVER used consistently. Also, he won a WWE championship back when he had a mask, so it's not like he waited 13 years to win his first world title.

and others. It took others like Jeff Hardy almost 10 years to become main event.

Because Jeff was so damn unreliable that it was a massive risk to put him at the top. Look what happened a week after he left WWE. He got arrested for having so much drugs he was suspected of trafficing them.

Now I know that the youngs guys have to come through and become the new stars but I just feel that these guys get given this title sooner than the guys who paved the way for them and I feel this kinda takes away from the legacy that other superstarr and legends had to forge themselves.

How? Does Wade Barrett carrying the biggest angle in the company for 6 months take away from Steve Austin and VKM carrying the Attitude Era? Does Alberto Del Rio winning the Royal Rumble take away from Bret Hart's childhood dream? No it doesn't. Those guys are remembered as legends in eras which were in completely different situations than WWE is now, and when time passes Barrett, Del Rio and the others who rose to the top fast will also be remembered as legends.

I could be totally wrong on this I just feel that for a superstar to be really taken serioulsy by the WWE universe it would be good to see them work their way up, build up their presence and then be bumped up into main event, not because the WWE wants to shove them in everyones face, but because they deserve it.

Because no "legends" won big titles early in their career. I mean 'Taker didn't win the WWE title on his WWE anniversary, or get booked insanely strongly in his debut or anything. And If shoving newbies down the fans throats accomplishes the same goal as having them toil int he midcard for years and WWE sees money in them what's the point of reducing the amount of money they can make from a star by making them do the former?

 

[FSWWE]

How the hell will they push Santino?? -.- he is a comic character and we all love him for that, but if we have him as WWE Champion, it has to be one of the biggest upsets ever and it will put a world tittle at the level of a US Tittle -.-

Alberto Del Rio has been in WWE for a short time, but he is paying his dues!! I mean the guy won the Royal fucking Rumble, he said it was his destiny!!
He has a tittle shot, so? That doesnt mean he is going to win the tittle, but i really want him to do so!! Alberto Del Rio is pure gold, he can be one of the best Heels in the WWE (if he isnt right now)!!

About Wade Barret- I dont believe that you think he is a bad wrester, he smells world champion by all of them!!!

We all have to accept, that not everybody has the Charisma, the Looks, the right mic-skills and ring skills to be World Champion!!

Heath Slater for instance is never going to be world champ, because he sucks so bad on the mic!!
If JoMo really gets the WWE Tittle, is going to be a boring reign in terms of storyline, however in the ring, that will be a awesome reign, but i dont think that he deserves to be more that one-time world champ!!

Drew McIntyre & Ted DiBiase has been buried, Drew only has won to the jobbers, he lose to Mysterio, he taps out to Edge twice, and he gets a great bump at EC, to be eliminated by only one chokeslam by Kane!!

Possible World Champs that are being built:

Wade Barret - withouth a doubt, the guy have already fighted for the big one, but he loses, he hummiliated the face of wwe john cena, he was in the final-four in the rumble, he was at EC, he is being very well built, and now Intercontinental Champion!!

Dolph Ziggler - Very good performer, he is just beating JoMo like he was nothing!! His ring-skills are very very good, at almost the level of Daniel Bryan!! and is mic-skills are average/good!

Cody Rhodes - The guy is in a singles match at WrestleMania with the Kids Hero, Rey Mysterio, that has to be good for him!!

Alberto Del Rio - He is awesome, his first-year as been pure gold!! He is a hell not coward, (only smart) that do fantastic things on the ring (that cross-arm OMG)

Sin Cara - Hell yeeeeee!!! If that guy can talk, i will be part of his likes!!! He will be the best wrestling performer of the WWE, even better than Bryan!!!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There are plenty of wrestlers that still "pay their dues". Looking at the examples cited by the OP, for instance. Sheamus has been wrestling since 2002. He spent the first 5 years of his career working in Europe and spent 2 more working in WWE's developmental territory before being brought up to the main roster in 2009. Alberto Del Rio spent over a decade working down in Mexico. Jack Swagger spent a couple of years in WWE developmental before spending a year on ECW, a year being buried on Raw and was given a surprise push out of nowhere. Wade Barrett's been wrestling since 2004, wresling mostly in Europe and spent roughly 3 years working in Florida Championship Wrestling before being brought up. So yeah, for the most part, these men have most definitely paid their dues.

To some degree, however, the concept has become somewhat outdated. I moved this into the GWD area of the forum because this something happened in just the WWE.

In TNA, for instance, the same thing is happening with a lot of young talent. Lacey Von Erich comes out of nowhere and becomes part of The Beautiful People based on her looks and her family name and is even given a championship. Rosita, Sarita's "cousin" is 20 years old and hasn't been wrestling 2 years. Jesse Neal has been a #1 contender for the TNA World Tag Team Championships a couple of times and is featured regularly on TNA television despite less than 3 years in wrestling.

Much like the territory system, the concept of spending the peak years of a wrestler's like paying his/her dues with little to nothing to show for it has become obsolete. The face of wrestling has changed a helluva lot over the past 20 years, especially in the past 10, and certain concepts have to be changed, evolve or get left behind. If the WWE or TNA or whomever sees money to be made off of talent, then why should they be expected to not use that talent to its fullest potential? It's not about what should be "fair" or what should be "right", it's about doing what you think is going to make you the most money and they'd be damned fools to do it any other way. Professional wrestling isn't a fantasy league and anyone that tries to run a wrestling company based on what's "fair" rather than what works won't be in business in the long run.

Do they sometimes screw up and make choices they shouldn't? Sure. Do they push guys that, in hindsight, shouldn't have gotten pushed? Absolutely. Professional wrestling, like just about every other aspect of life, has a lot of trial and error in it. You win some, you lose some. Sometimes you fuck up, sometimes you don't.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The reality is that the business changed from one based on small territories that needed reliable talent who would stick around for long periods of time to a global "quick fix" entity where that kind of loyalty is indeed obsolete...on both sides.

In the old days, a wrestler was investing valuable time and paycheck in training you, they didn't spend their time on those who couldn't hack the rigours of the business... The business as they knew it ended with Hogan, wrestlers began to ride in limos and learjets and "upside" became a word more important than "longevity".

WWE of today is a TV show, not a wrestling company (as they have gone to great lengths to tell us this week.) thus the "paying your dues" concept is based on a TV scenario not a wrestling one. Del Rio is ratings, he appeals to a demographic... As does Sheamus and Barrett. That they are the 3 most natural rookies to come down the pipe in 20 years is just a bonus.

Those 3 guys are tremendously gifted and also well schooled before they reached WWE. It would be a waste to send them through a process when their energy is working for them and WWE now.

Many will still "pay their dues" in the WWE system, guys like Masters, who DO have something have toiled for years... it will not take much for him to click with the fans and move up. Toil and Paying your dues in todays business is either WWE claiming you early and you not screwing up your chance or doing it the Daniel Bryan, Sheamus or Del Rio route that you become so good at what you do they can't ignore you.

 

[Mr_billy]

Let's start with Dos Caras jr., I mean Alberto Del RIo, How can anybody say he has nor paid his dues, as an Olympic caliber wrestler, former MMA star, he was Big in Japan, and a world champ in AAA and CMLL, which are huge. All my friends who followed him in his pre WWE days were worried that would mess him up. so he paid his dues in two huge promotions in Mexico.

It's all about marketability. If you can talk, you can be marketed, if not, you cant. P'lus, all the people you talk about have been in the business for 5 plus years.

 

[barclayteo]

i agree with the poster while adr may be believable he is there too soon. i just have one thing to say i dont feel like he deserves the wrestle mania, he is great on the mic yes, he has great ring skills yes. but he has legitimately injured 2 hugh wwe stars with that arm bar finisher. he is lucky he wasnt screwed over by back stage politics like mr kennedy, and kofi kingston was and the didnt do anything near is bad. until adr can stop injuring people i say he should be held back.

 

[Harve Harvey]

Seriously...I really don't see the problem at all with the pushes of the fresher talent. As long as they have something going for them in the ring and on the mic, then it makes perfect sense. Some guys have all the tools, and should absolutely get given the ball to see if they can run with it. I'm looking forward to Barret building his way to the WHC/WWE title over the coming year following his IC title win this week, and Sheamus has won me over big time since his first title win.
I quite simply want fresh fueds more than anything. I love Del Rio, although I don't like the flat chemistry between him and Edge, then again I'm not into Edge at all so that's probably got a lot to do with it. Perhaps my only problem with his push is that it's been too obvious, but then WWE needed to build him quickly by booking him so strongly from his debut, so I'm not saying I could have thought of a better way to do so, so please don't anyone get mad. Perhaps not having him show up on both shows prior to the rumble may have made me at least wonder if he he might not walk away with the victory.
Anyway, for me it's not really about dues/time on TV etc, it's just whether I feel the performer has 'It' and can deliver on the mic and in the ring. Also, as many people have pointed out here already, most of the guys mentioned have certainly paid their dues, none more so than Del Rio, and this brings me to my point. Finally ; )
Toiling in the mid card for years is not a right of passage for a performer on their way to the ME, it is simply a reflection of their status, i.e, not viewed by management as having the potential to be a big draw. Take Shelton Benjamin for example. I absolutely loved Shelton in the ring and his U.S title push prior to his release was great for me. I loved tuning in to Smackdown every week to see him put on stellar matches of decent length for months. Utimately though, he did suck on the mic and didn't have the right tools for a money drawing ME player, regardless of how much I would have loved to see him there. He got plenty of opportunity to do his thing and have a crack at it though, which is important, and that's what we're seeing here with this fresh bunch of talent. Now I know Shelton had been around for years and the comparision is a little off-topic, but the point is, many mid-card talents are exactly where they should be.
I'm tired and about to go out, so sorry if this has been a little bit of a ramble, but I'll sign off by saying this: The notion that long-time mid card talents somehow desrve a push simply as a result of having been a mid-carder for years is what i now like to call Matt Hardy Misguided Bitterness Syndrome. It seems pretty clear to me that Matt thinks he deserves much more than he has got for the reason mentioned above, and to me it is clearly obvious why he never got near the main event. Not just a case of not being good enough and with tenure like his it's not because he wasn't ready to try, it's because he never would be good enough and management knew that.

 

[Lucha-Libre is wrestling]

This thread is hypocritical and I will show everyone in a minute. Most of these wrestler mention here have pay their dues elsewhere than the WWE just like most WWE Hall Of Famers and current and former Superstars.

1. Hulk Hogan - Payed his dues in Japan and AWA none in the WWE. ( He was getting a big push in his first run in the WWF but Rocky 3 was more important to him.)
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Payed his due in WCW, WCCW and ECW none in the WWE.
3. Undertaker - Payed his dues in WCCW, USWA, WCWA and WCW none in the WWE.
4. HHH - Payed his dues in WCW none in the WWE.
5. Mick Foley - Payed his dues in squash matches early in his WWF career and at CWA, UWF, WCCW, WCW, ECW, none in his second turn in the WWE. ( He earn his dues more than anyone on this list.)
6. Chris Benoit - Payed his dues in Stampede, Japan, ECW, WCW none in WWE.
7. Eddie Guerrero - Payed his dues in CMLL, AAA, Japan, WWA, ECW, WCW, none in the WWE. ( Getting release the 1st time from WWE wasn't about paying dues it was about the pain killers. )
8. Bruno Sammartino - Payed his dues in Italy and wresting animal at carnivals none in the WWWF.
9. The Rock - His family paid his dues for him, ( The Rock started at USWA the summer of 1996 and by November he debuted in the WWE. ) He has not paid any dues in the WWE.
10. Ultimate Warrior - Payed his dues at WCCW, CWA, UWF, & WCWA, None in the WWE.

The WWWF/WWF/WWE has never been about paying your dues, its about take the ball and see how far you can run with it.

 

[THEpapachamp]

This thread is hypocritical and I will show everyone in a minute. Most of these wrestler mention here have pay their dues elsewhere than the WWE just like most WWE Hall Of Famers and current and former Superstars.

1. Hulk Hogan - Payed his dues in Japan and AWA none in the WWE. ( He was getting a big push in his first run in the WWF but Rocky 3 was more important to him.)
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Payed his due in WCW, WCCW and ECW none in the WWE.
3. Undertaker - Payed his dues in WCCW, USWA, WCWA and WCW none in the WWE.
4. HHH - Payed his dues in WCW none in the WWE.
5. Mick Foley - Payed his dues in squash matches early in his WWF career and at CWA, UWF, WCCW, WCW, ECW, none in his second turn in the WWE. ( He earn his dues more than anyone on this list.)
6. Chris Benoit - Payed his dues in Stampede, Japan, ECW, WCW none in WWE.
7. Eddie Guerrero - Payed his dues in CMLL, AAA, Japan, WWA, ECW, WCW, none in the WWE. ( Getting release the 1st time from WWE wasn't about paying dues it was about the pain killers. )
8. Bruno Sammartino - Payed his dues in Italy and wresting animal at carnivals none in the WWWF.
9. The Rock - His family paid his dues for him, ( The Rock started at USWA the summer of 1996 and by November he debuted in the WWE. ) He has not paid any dues in the WWE.
10. Ultimate Warrior - Payed his dues at WCCW, CWA, UWF, & WCWA, None in the WWE.

The WWWF/WWF/WWE has never been about paying your dues, its about take the ball and see how far you can run with it.

This is false, all of these Wrestlers besides Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Bruno Sammartino & Ultimate Warrior paid dues in the WWE

Stone Cold - Spent years as The Ringmaster and even during his popularity spent years as mid-card before becoming WWE Champion

HHH - Spent years as a lower mid-card contender and later still mid-card even during his DX days before becoming WWE Champion

Mick Foley - Got a major push as Mankind in the beginning but died out for years until he turned face.

Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero - Both came in as lower and mid card contenders in The Radicals. Got over a bit because they were known from WCW but both didn't capture WWE Championship gold for years after debuting

The Rock - though he was Intercontinental Champion rather quickly spent a good year or two as a nobody and even after he got a gimmick spent years after as a mid-card contender before becoming WWE Champion

Same can go for Edge, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Kane ect..

My point is mostly all the greatest stars spent years as a mid-card contender before becoming WWE Champion.

They don't do so anymore, if anything they do it backwards. ie: Sheamus & Wade Barrett

I think it's wonderful they are the US and IC Champions. It's where they should stay for the next year.

I believe the only two people in recent history who never payed there dued were Brock Lesnar and Goldberg

 

[Lucha-Libre is wrestling]

This is false, all of these Wrestlers besides Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Bruno Sammartino & Ultimate Warrior paid dues in the WWE

Stone Cold - Spent years as The Ringmaster and even during his popularity spent years as mid-card before becoming WWE Champion

HHH - Spent years as a lower mid-card contender and later still mid-card even during his DX days before becoming WWE Champion

Mick Foley - Got a major push as Mankind in the beginning but died out for years until he turned face.

Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero - Both came in as lower and mid card contenders in The Radicals. Got over a bit because they were known from WCW but both didn't capture WWE Championship gold for years after debuting

The Rock - though he was Intercontinental Champion rather quickly spent a good year or two as a nobody and even after he got a gimmick spent years after as a mid-card contender before becoming WWE Champion

Same can go for Edge, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Kane ect..

My point is mostly all the greatest stars spent years as a mid-card contender before becoming WWE Champion.

They don't do so anymore, if anything they do it backwards. ie: Sheamus & Wade Barrett

I think it's wonderful they are the US and IC Champions. It's where they should stay for the next year.

I believe the only two people in recent history who never payed there dued were Brock Lesnar and Goldberg

Are you serious HHH was a member of the Kliq, he did not pay no real dues HBK, Nash & Hall looked out for him. Stone Cold was the Ring Master and was given the Million Dollar Belt, Jim Rose & Nash talked VKM into hiring him doesn't sound like paying much dues. If you read my post carefully I mention all these guys payed their dues outside the WWE and all got quick gimmicks and pushes when they arrived to the WWE except for Mick Foley. Paying Dues means to struggle for a long period of time and 6 months to 1 yr is not a long time. The WWE is about making money and thats why these guys didn't pay dues.

 

[Calderownz]

Honestly, paying your dues happens in a lot of different ways. The fact of the matter is that when someone gets over and the company feels they can back him, you go with it.

This is a business. If a new employee is making incredible sales and would be better suited for a higher position, then he has a chance of getting it. Sometimes, a more established guy gets it. Sometimes, the new guy does.

But to hold him out of the discussion with his productivity would be bad business.

del Rio is over. So, he gets a push. It's that simple.

Add to this the fact that WWE needs fresh-faced stars and it makes total sense. Some guys are in the right place at the right time. It happens.

But to not let a guy reach his full potential too soon because he hasn't been around long is bad business.

For all we know, fans could be tired of del Rio in two years. You strike now and you get what you can with him at the top and potentially prolong his main even run.

 

[TheTruth]

to be honest im tired of del rio now he has possibly the worst entrance of all time even worse than jbl's he says the same thing week after week im not saying he is a bad wrestler but doing a few kicks and a few boring rest holds does not make him championship worthy it may have worked a few years back but a lot of fans like the high impact style of wrestling now. i usually call him alberto dia rea,.im not convinced by his finisher either