What WWE is doing extremely right!

[JohnJohnson]

In this day and age, it is harder for a wrestling promotion to really please the fans. There is little shock value or surprises because everything can be found on the internet. Last night, for example, someone in the Raw LD mentioned that Cody Rhodes was going to moonsault off the cage before he actually did it. This is from live reports and such. The fans know everything that happens behind the scenes, they know all of the returns, injuries, suspensions. It's basically impossible for WWE to work the modern fan. That is until now.

WWE knows that the IWC paints them to be bad guys that are either egotistical, want to help their buddies, or only like big guys. They know that people on wrestling site(which is a big art of their fan base) like to root for the "Indy darlings" and that nothing pisses them off more than when their favorite isn't getting the push they think they deserve. WWE also knows that the fans like to rebel.

Given all this, they have geniusly been pushing the crap out of Daniel Bryan, while working the fans into thinking they are holding him back and/or trying to bury him. WWE has featured him in main event after main event. He has become bigger than he could have dreamed of. He has the entire crowd eating out of his hands every single night. But fans get online and say that he is being held back. Because they are actually buying into a plot for the first time in forever. After the interent became big, when in doubt over whether something was a work or a shoot, you just go on a wrestling site and it'll tell you. But WWE has outsmarted the internet fans, because they are clearly working them by taking a dash of reality and mixing it just right with the Kayfabe.

-IWC fans complain that HHH likes to help his buddies out, and likes to bury talent that the crowd got over.

Result: They incorporate that into their storyline by having Hunter screw Daniel Bryan right after receiving a major push and getting put over by Cena. Triple H screws him out of the title and as a result his friend/protoge wins the belt. Thus giving the illusion that WWE is burying him. Yet he remains in the main event and doesn't ever lose clean(which is what they really do when they bury someone). Fast forward, they do the same thing with the Rumble winner spot and Batista on the same night that Bryan finally lost clean. Fans went nuts. Just like WWE wanted.

-IWC likes to point out that Vince only likes big guys that have the professional look.

Result: Vince actually takes the time to make some TV appearances just for Daniel Bryan. And bashes him on his looks and his small stature. Just to work the IWC. If they wanted to bury him because of his size, they would just job him out to bigger guys.

-IWC gets angry when their favorite indy star isn't getting the push they think they deserve.

Result: The have Daniel Bryan face Wyatts and Shield while still feuding with the Authority in actuality. This gives the illusion that Bryan went from competing for the title to facing guys a little lower in the card and constantly getting beat down. But in actuality he is still feuding with the top heel faction and still looking strong by only going down after being attacked by multiple people. When they had him join the Wyatts, a heel faction, they knew the fans would rebel, and they knew they could build up that pressure until they turn him for a big pay off. They ended up doing it a little earlier than planned, but when they did it, they succeeded none the less. Why do you think WWE pans out the camera during the "Yes" chant? Because they want to show that the whole arena loves him. They could easily just keep a close shot and drown out some of the crowd. They even coined the term "Yes" movement. You think they would acknowledge this as a movement if they weren't trying to get more people behind it and bury DB?

-IWC likes to complain that WWE likes to push superstars down their throats.

Result: WWE pushes the shit out of Bryan, harder than any superstar in recent memory, and do it through good booking and not by forcing a bunch of boring match wins down peoples throats.

-IWC likes to rebel when WWE tries to feed them something they don't want.

Result: They goad fans into yes chants, and even have Stephanie get the fan to syncronize their chants while still being a heel to the crowd. They put boring ass Cena vs Orton matches, knowing that's the opposite of what fans wanted. Dirt sheets go out with reports that WWE is pissed off about fans hijacking shows. This just gets fans to do it more, thus getting Bryan more attention.

-IWC says Triple H's ego is too big and he doesn't like to look bad on TV or have someone show him up.

Result: Triple H plays a heel who holds down the guy that the fans like and gets no retaliation against him because he is always protected. People love to hate Triple H and now he is out there every week, virtually untouchable. I see people on here say that he is switching from heel to face to heel to face just to make sure he always looks good in the end. Work! It just makes you hate him more and want to see him finally get beaten more. If he does face Daniel Bryan at WM, I can guarantee you Triple H will put Bryan over and probably even tap. It would be the exact same finish as WM 20, probably with Shawn laid out on the floor even. He is the perfect villain to the typical IWC smark.


WWE has completely worked the IWC. And to be honest has quite honestly done it twice with Punk. Everyone knew Raw would have a bunch of CM Punk chants. By not mentioning CM Punk at all, they knew fans would chant his name in rebellion. I don't know if it is a shoot or a work yet, but if it is a work, then CM Punks return would instantly put him on Bryan's level and could lead to a big title match between the two. I personally hope that it's not a work though, because I'm fed up with Punk. But if it is. It's genius booking.

 

[laodaron]

Thanks for this. It's exactly what I've been saying. The IWC cliq have been getting worked by the WWE since Summerslam in some of the greatest kayfabe workmanship since Vince testified that professional wrestling isn't real in 1989.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Thanks for this. It's exactly what I've been saying. The IWC cliq have been getting worked by the WWE since Summerslam in some of the greatest kayfabe workmanship since Vince testified that professional wrestling isn't real in 1989.

Yea, I've seen that we've had a lot of the same views on a lot of subjects. I'll usually read a post before I look at the name of the poster, and if I really like it I try to rep. There have been at least 3 occasions in the past week where I tried to rep a poster and it denied it because it was you and I already gave you rep lol.

This is some brilliant booking though. It seems like WWE went from a period(back in the Attitude Era) with great booking of storylines and so so booking of talent to today's great booking of talent with so so booking of storylines. If that even makes sense. I really like Daniel Bryana and I'm loving what WWE is doing for him right now.

 

[laodaron]

Yeah, I'm not the biggest Bryan guy, but the way that they've written his storyline is brilliant.

Here's where I'm scared about the results of this storyline, though. What happens when Bryan actually wins the gold? I mean, we all know that he's the best underdog story to be taken seriously in the WWE probably ever. His struggle to get a fair shake by The Authority is beautiful writing. Stephanie has cut some of her best promos of her career in this line. Bryan has actually gotten a lot better on the mic. But, while we accept that he might be able to slip a win in over Orton. He might be able to win a single match against Cena (clean, even). He might even be able to small package HHH at WM30, and get the win. But then what? Are we going to believe that he can consistently now beat every monster on the roster? What happens when Lesnar wants his title shot? I'm supposed to believe that Daniel Bryan, the perpetual underdog, has now become the Monster Killer in the WWE?

They are doing tons right. Wyatts v. Shield. Brotherhood v. NAO. I'm sure that they are doing the right thing with the Divas, even though I can't tolerate it long enough to watch a match (oddly enough, I don't hate the E! show, Total Divas). Batista v. Del Rio is perfect booking to get Batista to knock the ring rust off in a singles match before WM30.

 

[The Hardcore Kid]

What happens when Lesnar wants his title shot? I'm supposed to believe that Daniel Bryan, the perpetual underdog, has now become the Monster Killer in the WWE?

Did you forget that Bryan's first feud after winning the World Championship was against Big Show and Mark Henry at the same time and he came out on top?

 

[MoRtAnDaD]

Bryan, is the only "small" superstar/underdog that its actually being portrait as a dominant wrestler.

If you see DB matches, he usually is way more aggresive and has the better offence than his rival. To me this is great, its a fresh view to the typical small guy who usually gets beaten up by bigger rivals.

I dont remember any other underdog to be this dominant, if someone can refresh my memory i will be glad.

 

[laodaron]

Did you forget that Bryan's first feud after winning the World Championship was against Big Show and Mark Henry at the same time and he came out on top?

No, I didn't forget, but don't forget that Lesnar just basically murdered Show and Henry. And that's not the point. At no time is it believable for me to watch Daniel Bryan beat any of the big names consistently as a face.

 

[three count bout]

No, I didn't forget, but don't forget that Lesnar just basically murdered Show and Henry. And that's not the point. At no time is it believable for me to watch Daniel Bryan beat any of the big names consistently as a face.

At no time is it believable for me to see anybody in the WWE stand up to Brock Lesnar but it's Professional Wrestling and suspension of belief is a huge part of the game. It's refreshing to see guys of different statures in the main event if everybody looked like John Cena it would be boring. Daniel Bryan was destroying Orton last night and I loved it. The WWE did a great job of showing Daniel Bryans tenacity, and his ever present ring intelligence by constantly focusing the attack on Ortons leg which felt old school. A bunch of people kept harping on about how believable CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar would be and that match came out a strong MOTY contender for many fans.

Another question I keep seeing is what happens after he wins the belt? Hopefully the WWE writes some good storylines for him which should be the goal with every talent on the roster.

 

[TheBottomLine]

If Triple H does face Bryan at WM30, I can genuinely see Punk leaving as bring a part of the script. He's saying he left because Bryan isn't getting rewarded for his incredible year, yet in fact they're pushing the he'll out of him! So in the match at Mania,presuming it does happen, Bryan will be up against it, he has to put up with Triple H, Stephanie and possibly Shawn Michaels,then all of a sudden,Punks music hits and he saves Bryan and helps him beat the Game.

Maybe I'm just using wishful thinking,but that would be excellent to see!

 

[Blade]

For every person who's crying that Daniel Bryan is being buried, and that Punk is gone forever and that the world is ending, there's one person who assumes that every one is a big elaborate work and WWE always knows what they're doing.

So, for fucks sake, let's get two things straight:

1) At no point in his WWE career has Daniel Bryan been buried. Booked poorly? Sure, that feud with the Authority was boring and frustrating. And yeah, that 18 second Wrestlemania match sucked, but he still got plenty of TV time and plenty of wins after that. WWE has booked Daniel Bryan strongly for 99% of his time in the company. WWE deserves credit for that.

2) WWE didn't make Bryan lose to Orton or keep him out of the Rumble to get him more over. That booking wasn't part of some grand scheme to us love him more, it was just poor booking. And they're not ignoring CM Punk so we'll chant for him and he'll be super over when he comes back. They're ignoring Punk because he walked out of them, and is refusing to fulfill several of his obligations. I'm not on WWE or Punk's side, because I don't know the full story, obviously. But if I were WWE, I'd probably be pissed, and I would ignore Punk completely too until I'd at least had a conversation with him.

The WWE doesn't bury talent the IWC likes to give us the middle finger, they don't mistreat talent the IWC likes to get that talent more over, Punk leaving wasn't a work, and they're not ignoring him so he'll be more over.

Sometimes WWE books guys well, sometimes they book guys badly. Sometimes guys manage to get over, sometimes they don't. Sometimes WWE creates great angles, sometimes they create bad angles.

But the people who think that the WWE is intentionally trying to bury internet darlings are idiots, and the people who think WWE masterfully orchestrate every little thing are idiots.

The end.

 

[d_henderson1810]

In this day and age, it is harder for a wrestling promotion to really please the fans. There is little shock value or surprises because everything can be found on the internet. Last night, for example, someone in the Raw LD mentioned that Cody Rhodes was going to moonsault off the cage before he actually did it. This is from live reports and such. The fans know everything that happens behind the scenes, they know all of the returns, injuries, suspensions. It's basically impossible for WWE to work the modern fan. That is until now.

WWE knows that the IWC paints them to be bad guys that are either egotistical, want to help their buddies, or only like big guys. They know that people on wrestling site(which is a big art of their fan base) like to root for the "Indy darlings" and that nothing pisses them off more than when their favorite isn't getting the push they think they deserve. WWE also knows that the fans like to rebel.

Given all this, they have geniusly been pushing the crap out of Daniel Bryan, while working the fans into thinking they are holding him back and/or trying to bury him. WWE has featured him in main event after main event. He has become bigger than he could have dreamed of. He has the entire crowd eating out of his hands every single night. But fans get online and say that he is being held back. Because they are actually buying into a plot for the first time in forever. After the interent became big, when in doubt over whether something was a work or a shoot, you just go on a wrestling site and it'll tell you. But WWE has outsmarted the internet fans, because they are clearly working them by taking a dash of reality and mixing it just right with the Kayfabe.

-IWC fans complain that HHH likes to help his buddies out, and likes to bury talent that the crowd got over.

Result: They incorporate that into their storyline by having Hunter screw Daniel Bryan right after receiving a major push and getting put over by Cena. Triple H screws him out of the title and as a result his friend/protoge wins the belt. Thus giving the illusion that WWE is burying him. Yet he remains in the main event and doesn't ever lose clean(which is what they really do when they bury someone). Fast forward, they do the same thing with the Rumble winner spot and Batista on the same night that Bryan finally lost clean. Fans went nuts. Just like WWE wanted.

-IWC likes to point out that Vince only likes big guys that have the professional look.

Result: Vince actually takes the time to make some TV appearances just for Daniel Bryan. And bashes him on his looks and his small stature. Just to work the IWC. If they wanted to bury him because of his size, they would just job him out to bigger guys.

-IWC gets angry when their favorite indy star isn't getting the push they think they deserve.

Result: The have Daniel Bryan face Wyatts and Shield while still feuding with the Authority in actuality. This gives the illusion that Bryan went from competing for the title to facing guys a little lower in the card and constantly getting beat down. But in actuality he is still feuding with the top heel faction and still looking strong by only going down after being attacked by multiple people. When they had him join the Wyatts, a heel faction, they knew the fans would rebel, and they knew they could build up that pressure until they turn him for a big pay off. They ended up doing it a little earlier than planned, but when they did it, they succeeded none the less. Why do you think WWE pans out the camera during the "Yes" chant? Because they want to show that the whole arena loves him. They could easily just keep a close shot and drown out some of the crowd. They even coined the term "Yes" movement. You think they would acknowledge this as a movement if they weren't trying to get more people behind it and bury DB?

-IWC likes to complain that WWE likes to push superstars down their throats.

Result: WWE pushes the shit out of Bryan, harder than any superstar in recent memory, and do it through good booking and not by forcing a bunch of boring match wins down peoples throats.

-IWC likes to rebel when WWE tries to feed them something they don't want.

Result: They goad fans into yes chants, and even have Stephanie get the fan to syncronize their chants while still being a heel to the crowd. They put boring ass Cena vs Orton matches, knowing that's the opposite of what fans wanted. Dirt sheets go out with reports that WWE is pissed off about fans hijacking shows. This just gets fans to do it more, thus getting Bryan more attention.

-IWC says Triple H's ego is too big and he doesn't like to look bad on TV or have someone show him up.

Result: Triple H plays a heel who holds down the guy that the fans like and gets no retaliation against him because he is always protected. People love to hate Triple H and now he is out there every week, virtually untouchable. I see people on here say that he is switching from heel to face to heel to face just to make sure he always looks good in the end. Work! It just makes you hate him more and want to see him finally get beaten more. If he does face Daniel Bryan at WM, I can guarantee you Triple H will put Bryan over and probably even tap. It would be the exact same finish as WM 20, probably with Shawn laid out on the floor even. He is the perfect villain to the typical IWC smark.


WWE has completely worked the IWC. And to be honest has quite honestly done it twice with Punk. Everyone knew Raw would have a bunch of CM Punk chants. By not mentioning CM Punk at all, they knew fans would chant his name in rebellion. I don't know if it is a shoot or a work yet, but if it is a work, then CM Punks return would instantly put him on Bryan's level and could lead to a big title match between the two. I personally hope that it's not a work though, because I'm fed up with Punk. But if it is. It's genius booking.

Some very good points, and I agree with most of them.

Only two points I am not sure about:-

-I think WWE have only had Cena and Orton because they have not really pushed many others over the years, rather than it being orchestrated. If they are pushing Daniel now, they want to keep him from Cena or Orton until the right moment, so the only other choice is Cena and Orton. It was out of necessity rather than good planning.

-I don't think the WM20 ending will happen again. While it would be a clever ending to a Bryan-Triple H match, the WWE are so afraid of copping heating for it, and have tried to pretend Chris Benoit, and his win at WMXX never existed. They would also get bad publicity for promoting an angle involving someone accused of killing his wife and child. Bryan could beat Triple H another way, but I doubt they will end the match this way.

 

[d_henderson1810]

If Triple H does face Bryan at WM30, I can genuinely see Punk leaving as bring a part of the script. He's saying he left because Bryan isn't getting rewarded for his incredible year, yet in fact they're pushing the he'll out of him! So in the match at Mania,presuming it does happen, Bryan will be up against it, he has to put up with Triple H, Stephanie and possibly Shawn Michaels,then all of a sudden,Punks music hits and he saves Bryan and helps him beat the Game.

Maybe I'm just using wishful thinking,but that would be excellent to see!

I wouldn't be surprised if they did that, but Punk shockingly turns heel on Bryan after the match, and then they compete in a feud.

A heel Punk vs a face WWE Champion Bryan could have some incredible matches. Also, Punk would team with Triple H, like Austin did with Vince when SCSA went heel.

 

[justinept]

Imagine for a second that McDonalds started using rat meat back in 2002. Over the course of the next 9 years, people became so disgusted at McDonalds' practices, that half their customer base had chosen to eat elsewhere.

Then, in 2011, McDonalds made a bit of a comeback. They were still offering the rat meat, but they also provided actual meat options. Former customers started to give McDonalds a chance again. But just as these fans were coming back, McDonalds swept out the rug from under the customers feet and started pushing rat meat exclusively again.

Not only is that what WWE is doing right now, but you're actually of the mindset that they should be applauded for this. Consider that in 2002, the WWE was drawing ratings in the 6s still. Within three years of Triple H being the "face" of the company, ratings were down to the mid 4's. At that point, Triple H was joined by Cena, Orton and Batista. After five years of those four on top, ratings struggled to stay in the 3's. People stopped watching. The mainstream stopping paying attention. I'll never go so far as to say they're "burying" Bryan... because they aren't. What they're doing, though, is holding him down and preventing him from breaking through the glass ceiling.

Then, in 2011, wrestling got a bit of a buzz back when The Rock returned. A few months later, CM Punk was hitting the mainstream with multiple major media outlets picking up on his infamous pipe bomb. Fast forward another two years, and Daniel Bryan has joined Punk in the mainstream as his Yes Chants are showing up at various sporting events across the country.

So what does the WWE do when this buzz comes, and they a chance to recoup some of their former fans? They feed us the same rat meat garbage that drove away those fans in the first place. Stop applauding them. This isn't a well-worked angle designed to milk the fans reaction. It's a cluster f*ck designed to make Triple H's guys look bigger than they are.

I'm not sure how you could watch Raw last night and not realize that. What's the theme of the Triple H/Orton/Batista story? It's tat Triple H is having second thoughts about naming Orton the face of the company. It's that Orton is worried that Triple H is going to pick Batista to replace him. That's the story. That Daniel Bryan defeated Orton last night had more to do with furthering that story than it did to elevate Bryan. In fact, anyone in the ring with Orton last night would've won just the same. The ONLY reason Bryan was in that match last night was to keep the crowd from chanting for Punk during the entirety of the main event.

Now, I won't go so far as to say they're 'burying' Bryan... because they aren't. What they're doing, though, is holding him down and not allowing him to break through the imaginary glass ceiling. So he'll show up in main events; he'll probably win the title at some point or another; but they'll never fully commit to him. And that's a shame, too. For a company so desperate for stars, you'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to go all the way with a guy who has gotten over despite all their best efforts (18-second WM loss; humiliating "anger management" sketches; etc). So I can either complain about this or keep my mouth shut; I can either keep watching or stop watching. But what I refuse to do in this situation is to applaud them for 'great booking.'

 

[CaptainZaltan]

For every person who's crying that Daniel Bryan is being buried, and that Punk is gone forever and that the world is ending, there's one person who assumes that every one is a big elaborate work and WWE always knows what they're doing.

So, for fucks sake, let's get two things straight:

1) At no point in his WWE career has Daniel Bryan been buried. Booked poorly? Sure, that feud with the Authority was boring and frustrating. And yeah, that 18 second Wrestlemania match sucked, but he still got plenty of TV time and plenty of wins after that. WWE has booked Daniel Bryan strongly for 99% of his time in the company. WWE deserves credit for that.

2) WWE didn't make Bryan lose to Orton or keep him out of the Rumble to get him more over. That booking wasn't part of some grand scheme to us love him more, it was just poor booking. And they're not ignoring CM Punk so we'll chant for him and he'll be super over when he comes back. They're ignoring Punk because he walked out of them, and is refusing to fulfill several of his obligations. I'm not on WWE or Punk's side, because I don't know the full story, obviously. But if I were WWE, I'd probably be pissed, and I would ignore Punk completely too until I'd at least had a conversation with him.

The WWE doesn't bury talent the IWC likes to give us the middle finger, they don't mistreat talent the IWC likes to get that talent more over, Punk leaving wasn't a work, and they're not ignoring him so he'll be more over.

Sometimes WWE books guys well, sometimes they book guys badly. Sometimes guys manage to get over, sometimes they don't. Sometimes WWE creates great angles, sometimes they create bad angles.

But the people who think that the WWE is intentionally trying to bury internet darlings are idiots, and the people who think WWE masterfully orchestrate every little thing are idiots.

The end.

Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. The WWE has never once in the 25 years I've been watching shown even a fraction of the writing skills attributed to them by some of the people on these forums. Nor have they ever tried to bury Daniel Bryan (except maybe at WM 28).

Does anyone seriously believe that the same company that can't keep a secret from the dirt-sheets worth a damn, that frequently fails to get over it's favored performers (Orton, Del Rio, Lashley, Batista, even Cena to an extent), that writes gems like that Big Show storyline where he cried every week and HHH bought his house, or that is somehow managing to get it's main events booed out of the building at a time when they are trying to launch the WWE network, has masterfully planned out every little detail of Daniel Bryan's career, right down to how the crowd would react to something like an 18 second squash match, and has actually managed to keep it a secret?? Complete and utter idiocy.

On the other hand, the word "buried" gets thrown around far too often. Daniel Bryan would never have wound up in the position he is in now if he hadn't been booked to win, and win big. He's certainly been de-emphasized at times, but never buried. I don't agree with the booking decisions that have been made lately, but it's obvious that someone in that company sees enough good in him to keep him hovering around the main event. Then again by all accounts the WWE's creative team is doing rewrites the night of the show, and Vince has been changing his mind a lot lately. Differing opinions on creative direction backstage, the boss changing his mind, reactions to unpredictable events (how over DB actually is, Punk walking out, etc) are a lot more believable as the causes of seemingly nonsensical booking than some elaborate master plan, or the WWE just straight up wanting to bury Daniel Bryan.

And as a side note to the OP: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE IWC. Honestly, would everyone just drop that inane, generalizing, bullshit fucking term already?? It's 2014, and everyone is on the internet posting about shit they like and don't like. Even you. So get over it and stop trying to pretend this is an "us vs them" situation, because it isn't. It's fans with differing opinions. End of story.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As has been said in this thread and numerous other threads over the past several months, the WWE doesn't just start burying wrestlers who are looked at as "indie darlings" or "internet favorites" just to rile up internet fans. WWE management doesn't only just like "big guys", otherwise history of the WWE would be composed of wrestlers mostly like Ryback or Mason Ryan.

Does WWE fuck up sometimes and make the wrong choices? Of course they do, just like everyone else does in not only wrestling, but in every other business or walk of life as a whole. Does WWE management sometimes see things in certain wrestlers that some fans don't see? Damn skippy they do. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. Some wrestlers are pushed when they don't really have the ability in the long run while others who may have said ability aren't. It's not done intentionally just to piss some fans off, it's done because management has faith in wrestlers that they think will be money makers. As I said, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. Shit, that's just the law of averages because nobody can just immediately tell whether or not someone can make it to the top. If it was possible, then WWE could produce the next Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin whenever they wanted.

As I said, WWE management makes mistakes sometimes. In some instances, the mistakes seem to be pretty obvious ones in our eyes. Take turning Daniel Bryan heel, for instance. One reason he was, allegedly, rushed to turning face was due to footage Vince saw of a University of Michigan football game in which 40,000+ people were doing the "Yes!" chant. This is one of those instances where the arguments of Vince being out of touch gains credence. At the same time though, as fans, sometimes we don't KNOW nearly as much as we believe. We THINK we know what's what based on what we read from the dirtsheets. In some instances, for everything that we are able to find out as verified truth, I'd bet there are probably 10 other things that we don't know about and don't know are even going on.

When it comes to some internet fans a good deal of the time, there are extreme points of view. It's almost as though some of these fans see things plainly as black & white. For instance, if Bryan loses a match or isn't standing tall at the end of the night, it means he's being buried. If WWE brings in Batista and he doesn't immediately wow everyone with his presence, then he's a waste of money & time. Another one seems to be that they don't think the stars of today are as good as stars of the Attitude Era, but when WWE brings back such stars and puts them in prominent spots on the roster, then they'll complain that those stars are too old. If CM Punk has walked out, then it must be part of some sort of grand master plan that WWE has in the long run.

WWE is NEVER going to be perfect. There's bound to be some things that you're not all that into or just flat out don't like, that's a given. Not every single episode of Raw is going to be packed with epic happenings and buzzing with excitement & chaotic energy so thick that you could pecker slap someone with it. There's nothing wrong with an episode of Raw being "good" or "solid", nor does everything that goes on have to be this groundbreaking epic that turns the wrestling world on its ear. If you're able to accept these things, it can free up your mind and make it a lot easier to be entertained. If you're more concerned with playing armchair booker obsessively going over every little thing and fantasy booking what you'd do instead, you're never going to be satisfied.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

What they are doing well is creating buzz... Twice last week they made mainstream news in the UK - one cos Bryan wasn't IN a match...and two cos a wrestler "walked out"... the last time the WWE made the BBC news was Benoit and Owen's death... the time before that? Austin pushing Tyson...

That gives you an idea of what is going on here... they have a plan for Mania and to throw off the fans and Mr. Reddit guy they leak a card that they know is gonna drive the net fans insane... then they "emergency change it" (In the last 5 years the mania card is not set by this point anyway) and they can claim it as a "victory for the fans" a feel good Mania with extra mainstream coverage... It's ballsy, and clever... they leak out some Punk fans get evicted... what probably happened is security pulled some aside and asked.. if we let you backstage would you tweet we threw you out for chanting Punk? It could be the case...

Either way - WWE is the most talked about entertainment product at the moment and was during Superbowl week... they stole the thunder of most of the spots, the movies, the Morpheus advert all of it...

They are doing that part right... What they are not doing right is things like re-signing a deal with Sky with no more free PPV's which basically means the UK will subsidise the lost PPV revenue for the network in the US... that is a shitty move in anyone's book.

 

[mlp420]

Nonsense. Why in the world would they mess up their own money? You mean to tell me they spent all that time burying DB as not main event caliber, effectively tanking the buyrate for their second biggest show of the year just to work the IWC? Vince McMahon said to his stockholders that SummerSlam was a "swing and a miss" because it "didn't have the right attractions". Was he working his stockholders too? And where does the Wyatt situation fit into all of this? Taking him out of the title picture and making him join the Wyatts and then turn face again a week later was all part of their master plan too?

Now to the Royal Rumble: If WWE was anticipating the response they got at the Royal Rumble, why on earth would they bring Batista back and set him up to look as bad as he did? Why would they set Rey Mysterio up in that situation for that matter?

The reason why they buried DB on screen so much is not because there's some genius plot at work here. They did the EXACT SAME THING with Mick Foley in 1999. They were hoping fans would rally around him the same way they did Mick. It was also their way of dealing with his shortcomings head on. But it didn't work. They weren't happy with the numbers so they went another direction. If it wasn't for these crowds hijacking everything DB would be going after the US title right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certain CM Punk will be back, and I do think Daniel Bryan will eventually get the title. WWE will definitely use the situation to their advantage, because they want fools to believe they always know what they're doing and they always have everything under control.

 

[L@RISANO]

No, I didn't forget, but don't forget that Lesnar just basically murdered Show and Henry. And that's not the point. At no time is it believable for me to watch Daniel Bryan beat any of the big names consistently as a face.

I agree with the above.

We keep talking about getting casuals to watch the product. However, the size factor plays a huge part in many casuals' eyes,lMO.

For example, My dad isn't a fan of WWE by any stretch of imagination. However, when me and my brothers sit down to watch SmackDown on Friday nights, he also sits at times.
Now last SmackDown, Rey and DB were part of a 6-man tag match against the Shield. The first thing my dad remarked, was that they both were too small and didn't belong in that match.
I gave that example to say that whilst the likes of DB and Rey are enjoyable performers(amongst the very best), it is hard to believe them as being the Faces and top of the card guys who are booked as virtually unbeatable. Casual fans don't ever believe that is possible.
I also remember when I was in High School, and Rey Mysterio became the WWE Champion/WH Champion, that booking decision caused the majority of WWE fans to stop watching.

It is that factor which dictates WWE's stance on having Small guys as the sole Face of the company and why the Big Guys are pushed first.

If Daniel Bryan does get a run as a face, then congrats. However, he'll have to be booked as a pure underdog whether he has the belt or not.

 

[Pedigree1]

WWE will never be perfect that is an impossible task for any company. They do a lot of things correctly,not every big guy ever wins the WWE title otherwise Backlund,Punk,Bryan etc or even HBK would never have had reigns.

Is vince out of touch with the audience sometimes it sure feels like he is. But the WWE is a juggernaut a well oiled machine and after Vince retires im sure it will still be a juggernaut. Is the CM Punk walkout a hoax a work? Maybe it is but i doubt it! At the end of the day the WWE will right the ship and most of the audience will go home happy.

The WWE does not bury indie darlings,quite the opposite. Daniel bryan i have read and read on here is being buried far from it. DB is the most overguy right now is on every main event,and is the talk of the WWE. WWE hell even outshined the Superbowl,because of CM Punk. WWE is the toast of the town right nwo,and come WM time all will be well.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

But Bryan won't be the sole face... they still have Cena and all the others and very soon Reigns and Wyatt too..

It's about whether Bryan can engage the mainstream and casual fans in the same way that Austin or Hogan could... Cena hasn't even managed it to the extent WWE wants, but as he is kid friendly it has worked.

The other thing WWE is finally getting right is creating new stars... not the ones they thought thought..

Think back to that "new talent initiative" back a few years back, you had Umaga, Lashley, Kennedy, MVP, Spirit Squad... those were meant to be the guys but the system for pushing them was wrong... all bar Ziggler left. Then came the next crop the Braden Walkers, Scotty Goldman's, the Edgeheads and The Teachers Pets... this time a couple more stayed around but none were really the stars they wanted, so they went with Tough Enough, where the winner never even debuted... they were hitting odd home runs with guys like Sheamus until they came up with NXT as a concept and it started to click.

Of that first class of NXT you now have all bar Tarver on TV for WWE (although Otunga seems to have slipped lately) and Bryan is their top guy... then you look at the 2nd class and you have less of a return but Titus is involved in a major fued right now, Axel has been a major player and Bray Wyatt is one of their next big things... Season 3 brought Kaitlin, AJ, Aksana and Naomi... until very recently all were still playing major roles but AJ is still a major star and season 4 gave us the man who would be Fandango, a Funkasaurus and Dixie Carter a nephew...

Now remember that NXT debuted less than 4 YEARS AGO!!! that is a massive amount of new talent to rise and a massive "hit rate"... then factor in the guys not from NXT the show but just the territory... Big E. Cesaro, Harper & Rowan and Sandow. That is a massive amount of the roster being "new talent" and another new crop about to come up to the main roster in guys like Neville, Sami Zain, Paige, The Ascension and Rusev.

WWE is getting new talent VERY right indeed

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

100% agree with the OP. Had DB been given the strap and a "long reign to establish credibility" then he wouldn't be as over. If batman captures joker in the first scene of the dark knight, no one gives a shit about the rest of the movie

 

[Blade]

What they are doing well is creating buzz... Twice last week they made mainstream news in the UK - one cos Bryan wasn't IN a match...and two cos a wrestler "walked out"... the last time the WWE made the BBC news was Benoit and Owen's death... the time before that? Austin pushing Tyson...

Unintentionally creating a buzz. I feel that's important to point out.

That gives you an idea of what is going on here... they have a plan for Mania and to throw off the fans and Mr. Reddit guy they leak a card that they know is gonna drive the net fans insane... then they "emergency change it" (In the last 5 years the mania card is not set by this point anyway) and they can claim it as a "victory for the fans" a feel good Mania with extra mainstream coverage... It's ballsy, and clever... they leak out some Punk fans get evicted... what probably happened is security pulled some aside and asked.. if we let you backstage would you tweet we threw you out for chanting Punk? It could be the case...

Either way - WWE is the most talked about entertainment product at the moment and was during Superbowl week... they stole the thunder of most of the spots, the movies, the Morpheus advert all of it...

You literally cannot be serious right now? You think all this is part of a "plan" for Mania? The fans turning on them was part of the plan? Punk walking out was part of the plan? What planet are you living on?

There is literally no way WWE could've known that the BBC would report on Bryan's omission from the the Rumble or Punk's walk out. And there is literally know way they would shoot themselves in the foot so severely just to "throw off" the fans. WWE 2014 may have some similarities to WCW 2000, but there's no way they're that similar.

WWE hasn't planned any of the stories it's made headlines for this year.

Oh, also, over 100 million people watched the Superbowl. Somehow, I don't think WWE is the most talked about thing at the moment.

 

[lil steroid meat]

In this day and age, it is harder for a wrestling promotion to really please the fans. There is little shock value or surprises because everything can be found on the internet. Last night, for example, someone in the Raw LD mentioned that Cody Rhodes was going to moonsault off the cage before he actually did it. This is from live reports and such. The fans know everything that happens behind the scenes, they know all of the returns, injuries, suspensions. It's basically impossible for WWE to work the modern fan. That is until now.

WWE knows that the IWC paints them to be bad guys that are either egotistical, want to help their buddies, or only like big guys. They know that people on wrestling site(which is a big art of their fan base) like to root for the "Indy darlings" and that nothing pisses them off more than when their favorite isn't getting the push they think they deserve. WWE also knows that the fans like to rebel.

Given all this, they have geniusly been pushing the crap out of Daniel Bryan, while working the fans into thinking they are holding him back and/or trying to bury him. WWE has featured him in main event after main event. He has become bigger than he could have dreamed of. He has the entire crowd eating out of his hands every single night. But fans get online and say that he is being held back. Because they are actually buying into a plot for the first time in forever. After the interent became big, when in doubt over whether something was a work or a shoot, you just go on a wrestling site and it'll tell you. But WWE has outsmarted the internet fans, because they are clearly working them by taking a dash of reality and mixing it just right with the Kayfabe.

-IWC fans complain that HHH likes to help his buddies out, and likes to bury talent that the crowd got over.

Result: They incorporate that into their storyline by having Hunter screw Daniel Bryan right after receiving a major push and getting put over by Cena. Triple H screws him out of the title and as a result his friend/protoge wins the belt. Thus giving the illusion that WWE is burying him. Yet he remains in the main event and doesn't ever lose clean(which is what they really do when they bury someone). Fast forward, they do the same thing with the Rumble winner spot and Batista on the same night that Bryan finally lost clean. Fans went nuts. Just like WWE wanted.

-IWC likes to point out that Vince only likes big guys that have the professional look.

Result: Vince actually takes the time to make some TV appearances just for Daniel Bryan. And bashes him on his looks and his small stature. Just to work the IWC. If they wanted to bury him because of his size, they would just job him out to bigger guys.

-IWC gets angry when their favorite indy star isn't getting the push they think they deserve.

Result: The have Daniel Bryan face Wyatts and Shield while still feuding with the Authority in actuality. This gives the illusion that Bryan went from competing for the title to facing guys a little lower in the card and constantly getting beat down. But in actuality he is still feuding with the top heel faction and still looking strong by only going down after being attacked by multiple people. When they had him join the Wyatts, a heel faction, they knew the fans would rebel, and they knew they could build up that pressure until they turn him for a big pay off. They ended up doing it a little earlier than planned, but when they did it, they succeeded none the less. Why do you think WWE pans out the camera during the "Yes" chant? Because they want to show that the whole arena loves him. They could easily just keep a close shot and drown out some of the crowd. They even coined the term "Yes" movement. You think they would acknowledge this as a movement if they weren't trying to get more people behind it and bury DB?

-IWC likes to complain that WWE likes to push superstars down their throats.

Result: WWE pushes the shit out of Bryan, harder than any superstar in recent memory, and do it through good booking and not by forcing a bunch of boring match wins down peoples throats.

-IWC likes to rebel when WWE tries to feed them something they don't want.

Result: They goad fans into yes chants, and even have Stephanie get the fan to syncronize their chants while still being a heel to the crowd. They put boring ass Cena vs Orton matches, knowing that's the opposite of what fans wanted. Dirt sheets go out with reports that WWE is pissed off about fans hijacking shows. This just gets fans to do it more, thus getting Bryan more attention.

-IWC says Triple H's ego is too big and he doesn't like to look bad on TV or have someone show him up.

Result: Triple H plays a heel who holds down the guy that the fans like and gets no retaliation against him because he is always protected. People love to hate Triple H and now he is out there every week, virtually untouchable. I see people on here say that he is switching from heel to face to heel to face just to make sure he always looks good in the end. Work! It just makes you hate him more and want to see him finally get beaten more. If he does face Daniel Bryan at WM, I can guarantee you Triple H will put Bryan over and probably even tap. It would be the exact same finish as WM 20, probably with Shawn laid out on the floor even. He is the perfect villain to the typical IWC smark.


WWE has completely worked the IWC. And to be honest has quite honestly done it twice with Punk. Everyone knew Raw would have a bunch of CM Punk chants. By not mentioning CM Punk at all, they knew fans would chant his name in rebellion. I don't know if it is a shoot or a work yet, but if it is a work, then CM Punks return would instantly put him on Bryan's level and could lead to a big title match between the two. I personally hope that it's not a work though, because I'm fed up with Punk. But if it is. It's genius booking.

You are giving them way too much credit.

Cena vs. Orton was not some deeply thought out ploy to get fans to rebel, my memory is foggy, but I'm sure that match was made weeks before Bryan was even in the Wyatt Family/turned face again. On top of that, they have no way of predicting crowd reactions. You might get a crowd full of smarks, you might get a crowd full of families. Cena/Orton wasn't the main event to get tens of thousands of people to chant the name of a wrestler who wasn't involved, Cena/Orton was the main event because WWE thinks that Cena/Orton is still a huge draw in 2014 (and you really can't prove them wrong). Was it in their plans to have people chant "We Want Divas" in what the WWE built up as "the most important match in WWE history"?

They are legitimately trying to force Batista as a face.

They are pushing Triple H as a face/tweener. If they were playing the HHH heel character right, they would have had D Bry's music play at 30 in the Rumble, crowd goes wild, Triple H comes out, smiles, and goes to the back. They would have had Punk's music play last night (at the end when Orton and Kane were beating Daniel Bryan), crowd goes wild, Triple H comes out, smiles, and goes to the back. They are really fucking up the easiest opportunity to make a hated authority figure since the Montreal Screwjob.

They are legitimately trying to act as if Punk never existed (although he hasn't recieved full on Benoit treatment, they are doing little things like removing him from the WWE "Then, Now, Forever" graphic that starts all WWE programming . . . that's not something done for a pro wrestling angle, nobody is looking for that.

WWE isn't trying to "work" the IWC. That's such a small percentage of their audience, and an even smaller percentage of the IWC actually spends money with the WWE. You can't really think that their fuck ups and the reactions to their fuck ups are just an elaborate angle to get heat on HHH . . .

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Unintentionally creating a buzz. I feel that's important to point out.



You literally cannot be serious right now? You think all this is part of a "plan" for Mania? The fans turning on them was part of the plan? Punk walking out was part of the plan? What planet are you living on?

There is literally no way WWE could've known that the BBC would report on Bryan's omission from the the Rumble or Punk's walk out. And there is literally know way they would shoot themselves in the foot so severely just to "throw off" the fans. WWE 2014 may have some similarities to WCW 2000, but there's no way they're that similar.

WWE hasn't planned any of the stories it's made headlines for this year.

Oh, also, over 100 million people watched the Superbowl. Somehow, I don't think WWE is the most talked about thing at the moment.

So think about it logically - the one thing Vince truly believes is all mainstream attention is good - even if in theory it is bad, even with Benoit it gave him the chance to actually go on TV and put over his company, wellness changes and try and change peoples views of it... he pointed to the PG era that was already underway and luckily for him no one pointed out the Snuka hypocrisy (although this is now a reality for him) the reason he was there was horrid, but on the whole WWE didn't come out irreparably damaged and he, Jericho, Cena and a few others dispelled the myth that the WWE was responsible pretty effectively.

They didn't "know" that they'd make the BBC last monday, but once they did, they are going to capitalise and maximise and lo and behold within 24 hours another talent, has "made it", this time by walking out.

Also note I said ENTERTAINMENT product, not sports product... The Bowl is watched by millions every year, it is unassailable. 100m did not watch for Bruno mars or the movie spots...and this year there was VERY little buzz about them compared to previous years as attention for that week was on WWE. Next year of course, that will change as everyone will tune in to see the Star Wars spot... but until then, Vince 43-Hollywood 8.

Name me one Wrestlemania where the entire card has been planned out even by this stage in recent memory. A year ago we weren't sure who Jericho would face, what Orton, The Shield, Sheamus would be doing, even who might face ADR for the WHC... neither was WWE... they had several matches down and can even advertise main events then change them... As Jericho found out at WM2000.

A lot has changed in the landscape of the WWE and Wrestlemania in recent months. Enough that it is entirely possible they have tried to swerve more on the card than they usually would. They want this to be the gala, flagship event 1, 10 and 20 were but whichever way you look at it, the card as it was rumored was "lacklustre" to say the least. They are clearly looking to build some surprises in over the coming weeks and some not so surprising things like a Warrior match. To give you an idea last year Trips v Brock was only made official on March 15. Taker's opponent was up in the air before Punk walked... they might still get Sting, it might be Bryan, Brock or Jericho. They have new talent like Roman Reigns and Bray Wyatt who have gotten over huge since the tradition "Let's plan Mania" meeting in fall... those changes have to come into play.

They are trying to make Batista face because it's in his deal - he's got a big Marvel movie coming out so wants to be a big hero or rather DISNEY want him to be a big hero, and we all know Vince wants to please Disney so they come buy out his IP just like Marvel and Star Wars and let him continue to run it, so he can be a billionaire again...


Are they intentionally pissing their fans off right now - yes, they are making business decisions that they know will be unpopular such as pulling talent from UK shows, non-finishes of PPV's and seemingly wilfully ignoring the chants and putting out rumors of a very dull mania card... some of these won't change, the UK is now the subsidiser of the Network, as we will be paying for all PPV's going forward... that is shitty and they know it... the next UK tour won't be as good for them and they've made that call.. but it is possible they have manipulated the crowds into lowering their expectations so much that what eventually is put out at Mania will FAR FAR exceed them, and have the cheering, chanting and buzzing again but to do that you have to lower those expectations. They are also making a focal point of "The Authority" as heels, this may be so Vince and Shane can come back and "save the day", it may be that they bring in Sting as "WWE President Steve Borden" as he's the only guy with no heat or history with anyone. It could be that they make 30 about "ownership" of the WWE yet... but never think they won't misdirect the fans, they do so regularly.

 

[H33LTurn]

Theres bound to be a hidden purpose behind WWE's current booking style (in the IWC age), which is why I'm always wary of dirt sheet reports and such. Consider the source (unnamed insiders within the WWE brass). WWE likes to play the whole persecuted martyr angle with the internet darlings, which of course is genius, but can readily backfire in the absence of proper story telling. I say they should wrap up this angle by Mania because it is getting stale. I think WWE makes the mistake of thinking fans enjoy, or will continue to tune in due to their outrage. The business of outrage is a profitable one and WWE is not the only company to capitalize on it. Of course if fans perceive that the upcoming Mania card will be a weak one and that the booking is getting to be so bad that superstars are leaving, they might just tune out. WWE has its focus groups and its demographics all figured out, but I'm wary of a fan base thats constantly displeased.