Azrael Cain
The alternative is unthinkable.
I stumbled onto a topic here called 'Wrestling with Manhood,' scanned it and search for what the poster was talking about. After a Google Search (thank you, internet) I was taken to a YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikDXcfzA848, which I watched and then analyzed. And then I got to thinking: What does everyone else has to say about this?
So, I would like for anyone who clicks this link to sit there, take the five minutes and think about what the guys in the video are saying.
I'd like to offer my opinion, and truthfully, just get this off my chest.
It is my belief that Professional Wrestling is the equivalent of theater. Albeit it is covers very brutal and very basic ideas and themes, and appeals to the most basic human desire: violence and sexuality, it stands to reason that it is still what it claims to be: entertainment.
Now, I give in to the fact that not everyone thinks the way I do. That's fine; but just work with me, humor me, okay?
Sut Jhaly states "Anything that popular reveals something larger about our society," and then goes on to ask "Why are people watching? and How is wrestling affecting society?" From the standpoint of a wrestling fan and an analytical thinker, I think I know the answer. It may not fit the mold or everyone's opinion, but that is hardly my concern. I am trying to solve this issue for me, not for humanity.
It is my belief that wrestling is a play of the two basic beliefs in human society: good and evil. Of course, like in all fiction, there are obvious extremes of both -- a good guy is really really good and a bad guy is evil. I believe that we, as people and as fans, need those two extremes because of our societal beliefs in good and evil, and in the root belief that good should always triumph over evil. Wrestling capitalizes on a very basic and very old idea, nothing more. People are watching for that reason, and for that reason alone. When they say "Story-lines draw me it," or "I connect," or "I can relate," or even the vague "I am entertained" -- all of those statements lead back to one root: man's internal struggle with himself inside, when we are all alone in our rooms, with no one around. We can pretend that those two men in the ring are the good and evil side of us -- and be safe from the conflict that transpires. And if the outcome is not what we desire, we can simply disconnect.
If that is indeed the reason people watch, then what does that say about society, as Sut asks. Well, it says that society is hungry for blood, violence and for sex. I think it says that people are hardwired to want the most basic things: food, shelter, sex, power and fame. Through wrestling (a wrestler), the spectator can live vicariously. It's an escape -- like Vince has stated many times as a defense.
Wrestling, as a show, a form of entertainment, provides the escape from the drudgery and misery (or overbearing joy for some) of everyday life. It's a distraction.
With how popular it is, what it says about society to me is that we a re a society that is willing to be deceived and distracted from topics and issues that really matter. I know I would much rather watch wrestling and not have to think than watch the news and be depressed. It isn't real -- and that is its appeal.
So, how does this reflect upon society? Just like the Gladiators reflected the Roman Culture of their times. I equate, and always have and always will, wrestlers to gladiators. Of course I can just as easily make the equation to MMA fighters -- and that would be far more truer -- but we're discussing wrestling, and in the end, both Pro Wrestling and MMA stem from the same desires anyway. Back on point: wrestling as an equation to the Gladiators of the Roman day. A Gladiator was a superstar, a celebrity (provided he did not die). A Gladiator was an entertainer, and he served a function: people came to see him either live or die. Just like the fans of wrestling today come for a function: to see their boy win or lose. Wrestling reflects upon society what society reflects unto wrestling: the love of conflict, the desire to live vicariously through someone else.
On the topic of wrestling and violence, since we're talking about the most violent form of entertainment ever - Gladiators - the quote about "happy violence," from the clip is something I agree with yet find ludicrous. Wrestling is not real and the suspension of disbelief is a must for a wrestling fan. A wrestling fan is not an idiot -- we know it's fake.
Granted, some don't, but they catch on. Whether by themselves or by someone slapping some sense into them.
Back on track: A wrestling fan knows that the violence is exaggerated, much like the stereotypes of a hero and villain are Exaggerated. Therefore, by putting two and two together, the fan realizes that the purpose of the violence, like the purpose of the hero and villain, is to further the story along. In a way this is an answer to a question posed later in the clip, about the violence against women. Personal note: I hate men that beat up on women. And when I see it in wrestling, it does bother me, it hits a nerve with me. And that is the point. Like with any other form of fictional entertainment, there is a moral to be learned.
Perhaps that formula has gone out the window as of late with the WWE, but in the past and surely in the early years, that was the case.
And in a way, this is also tied to the idea of manhood and how wrestling portrays men and women. To a certain degree, the roles are very traditional: women are sex objects and men are fighters. But when you step outside the world of wrestling and look at reality, that view does not[ change. I don't care if you find the most Gentmanly Gentleman Squire Well Mattered Respectable Guy in the world; he still wans to fuck and still judges women based on appearance and the size of their breast. He is, just like all males and all people, wired to the basic desire of sex. We like sex, we like it, and we like it a lot. And wrestling, like all forms of entertainment, give it to us by the buckets. Why? Because someone came along and said "Sex sells!" and made it so. Please find and shoot whoever said that; while it's true, it bothers me.
I feel as though I am beginning to ramble, but we're not through yet. Getting back to the idea of society and its reflection of wrestling, and gender roles. Again, in the "real world," guys behave like wrestlers often do: face to face, start swinging, make rude comments to women. But is this art imitating life or life imitating art, or both? Again, society reflects unto wrestling what wrestling reflects unto society - both influence the other because both are true depictions of what occurs. In the real world people get in fights. In wrestling, too. Are there rules and three counts in the real world!?
Get fucking real.
Any form of entertainment will feature sex and women in idealized form. I want you guys to listen to the argument this guy makes at the 3:17 mark: "Women are there for the pleasure of men." I don't mean to sound sexist, and I apologize ladies, but isn't this the same way in reality? Men behave this way in real life, we all know "that guy," and these guys and this behavior has existed for thousands upon thousands of years. Don't start blaming wrestling for the idea of sexism; it enforces it, but it is not responsible for the male-dominated viewpoint we as a society hold of the world.
I love the question of "What does it mean when we are entertained by men beating up women? By scenes of bullying, humiliation, and stereotypical depictions of gays? Why do we find it funny?" I think I have an answer to that too.
Well, for one, people love dominance. And nothing proves dominance to a man-made, sexist society than a man beating on a woman. That appeals to the darkest side of every one, even if they will deny it. Every person has been to that edge when a member of the opposite sex has pissed them off that they want to hit them. I will admit I've been there, but I was raised better than that. I know better than that. And I can control my anger and be aware of my basic desires. I do not need to control -- but others do. And again, this appeals to the most basic human desire: power.
Same for bullying and humiliation and stereotypical scenes of homosexuality. It provides a sense of power to the watcher, a sense of "That isn't me, I am normal." Again we are dealing with the idea of a distraction from what is truly important in society. People cannot face these ideas within themselves, and so a transference is needed; and wrestling provides that transference.
Okay, I think I rambled on enough.... *deep breath*...
I also spoke about the "wrestling fan," and how we know it's fake. I think that distinction must be made and something must be clarified: a wrestling fan must be an analytical thinker. The "average fan" has the attention span of 0.3 seconds and will buy into anything. And wrestling is multi-layered like that, which is also part of its popularity and success.
It appeals to the most basic of desires: power, sex, violence.
It has the potential to appeal on a deeper level: perseverance, the facing of one's demons, redemption of a "heel," etc.
It has the potential to force us to think, like the clip is attempting to pick wrestling apart and analyze it.
But what is wrestling? Aside from the amateur competition and Greco-Roman history of it, what is American Pro Wrestling? Is it the distraction from the drudges of everyday life, or is it a "more civilized" form of Roman Gladiator games, in which our concepts of life have become elevated and moral death is far more satisfying that physical demise?
Is it multifaceted and multi-layered, or am I pulling all of this out of my ass?
Forgive the ramblings, but please, above all else - discuss....
So, I would like for anyone who clicks this link to sit there, take the five minutes and think about what the guys in the video are saying.
I'd like to offer my opinion, and truthfully, just get this off my chest.
It is my belief that Professional Wrestling is the equivalent of theater. Albeit it is covers very brutal and very basic ideas and themes, and appeals to the most basic human desire: violence and sexuality, it stands to reason that it is still what it claims to be: entertainment.
Now, I give in to the fact that not everyone thinks the way I do. That's fine; but just work with me, humor me, okay?
Sut Jhaly states "Anything that popular reveals something larger about our society," and then goes on to ask "Why are people watching? and How is wrestling affecting society?" From the standpoint of a wrestling fan and an analytical thinker, I think I know the answer. It may not fit the mold or everyone's opinion, but that is hardly my concern. I am trying to solve this issue for me, not for humanity.
It is my belief that wrestling is a play of the two basic beliefs in human society: good and evil. Of course, like in all fiction, there are obvious extremes of both -- a good guy is really really good and a bad guy is evil. I believe that we, as people and as fans, need those two extremes because of our societal beliefs in good and evil, and in the root belief that good should always triumph over evil. Wrestling capitalizes on a very basic and very old idea, nothing more. People are watching for that reason, and for that reason alone. When they say "Story-lines draw me it," or "I connect," or "I can relate," or even the vague "I am entertained" -- all of those statements lead back to one root: man's internal struggle with himself inside, when we are all alone in our rooms, with no one around. We can pretend that those two men in the ring are the good and evil side of us -- and be safe from the conflict that transpires. And if the outcome is not what we desire, we can simply disconnect.
If that is indeed the reason people watch, then what does that say about society, as Sut asks. Well, it says that society is hungry for blood, violence and for sex. I think it says that people are hardwired to want the most basic things: food, shelter, sex, power and fame. Through wrestling (a wrestler), the spectator can live vicariously. It's an escape -- like Vince has stated many times as a defense.
Wrestling, as a show, a form of entertainment, provides the escape from the drudgery and misery (or overbearing joy for some) of everyday life. It's a distraction.
With how popular it is, what it says about society to me is that we a re a society that is willing to be deceived and distracted from topics and issues that really matter. I know I would much rather watch wrestling and not have to think than watch the news and be depressed. It isn't real -- and that is its appeal.
So, how does this reflect upon society? Just like the Gladiators reflected the Roman Culture of their times. I equate, and always have and always will, wrestlers to gladiators. Of course I can just as easily make the equation to MMA fighters -- and that would be far more truer -- but we're discussing wrestling, and in the end, both Pro Wrestling and MMA stem from the same desires anyway. Back on point: wrestling as an equation to the Gladiators of the Roman day. A Gladiator was a superstar, a celebrity (provided he did not die). A Gladiator was an entertainer, and he served a function: people came to see him either live or die. Just like the fans of wrestling today come for a function: to see their boy win or lose. Wrestling reflects upon society what society reflects unto wrestling: the love of conflict, the desire to live vicariously through someone else.
On the topic of wrestling and violence, since we're talking about the most violent form of entertainment ever - Gladiators - the quote about "happy violence," from the clip is something I agree with yet find ludicrous. Wrestling is not real and the suspension of disbelief is a must for a wrestling fan. A wrestling fan is not an idiot -- we know it's fake.
Granted, some don't, but they catch on. Whether by themselves or by someone slapping some sense into them.
Back on track: A wrestling fan knows that the violence is exaggerated, much like the stereotypes of a hero and villain are Exaggerated. Therefore, by putting two and two together, the fan realizes that the purpose of the violence, like the purpose of the hero and villain, is to further the story along. In a way this is an answer to a question posed later in the clip, about the violence against women. Personal note: I hate men that beat up on women. And when I see it in wrestling, it does bother me, it hits a nerve with me. And that is the point. Like with any other form of fictional entertainment, there is a moral to be learned.
Perhaps that formula has gone out the window as of late with the WWE, but in the past and surely in the early years, that was the case.
And in a way, this is also tied to the idea of manhood and how wrestling portrays men and women. To a certain degree, the roles are very traditional: women are sex objects and men are fighters. But when you step outside the world of wrestling and look at reality, that view does not[ change. I don't care if you find the most Gentmanly Gentleman Squire Well Mattered Respectable Guy in the world; he still wans to fuck and still judges women based on appearance and the size of their breast. He is, just like all males and all people, wired to the basic desire of sex. We like sex, we like it, and we like it a lot. And wrestling, like all forms of entertainment, give it to us by the buckets. Why? Because someone came along and said "Sex sells!" and made it so. Please find and shoot whoever said that; while it's true, it bothers me.
I feel as though I am beginning to ramble, but we're not through yet. Getting back to the idea of society and its reflection of wrestling, and gender roles. Again, in the "real world," guys behave like wrestlers often do: face to face, start swinging, make rude comments to women. But is this art imitating life or life imitating art, or both? Again, society reflects unto wrestling what wrestling reflects unto society - both influence the other because both are true depictions of what occurs. In the real world people get in fights. In wrestling, too. Are there rules and three counts in the real world!?
Get fucking real.
Any form of entertainment will feature sex and women in idealized form. I want you guys to listen to the argument this guy makes at the 3:17 mark: "Women are there for the pleasure of men." I don't mean to sound sexist, and I apologize ladies, but isn't this the same way in reality? Men behave this way in real life, we all know "that guy," and these guys and this behavior has existed for thousands upon thousands of years. Don't start blaming wrestling for the idea of sexism; it enforces it, but it is not responsible for the male-dominated viewpoint we as a society hold of the world.
I love the question of "What does it mean when we are entertained by men beating up women? By scenes of bullying, humiliation, and stereotypical depictions of gays? Why do we find it funny?" I think I have an answer to that too.
Well, for one, people love dominance. And nothing proves dominance to a man-made, sexist society than a man beating on a woman. That appeals to the darkest side of every one, even if they will deny it. Every person has been to that edge when a member of the opposite sex has pissed them off that they want to hit them. I will admit I've been there, but I was raised better than that. I know better than that. And I can control my anger and be aware of my basic desires. I do not need to control -- but others do. And again, this appeals to the most basic human desire: power.
Same for bullying and humiliation and stereotypical scenes of homosexuality. It provides a sense of power to the watcher, a sense of "That isn't me, I am normal." Again we are dealing with the idea of a distraction from what is truly important in society. People cannot face these ideas within themselves, and so a transference is needed; and wrestling provides that transference.
Okay, I think I rambled on enough.... *deep breath*...
I also spoke about the "wrestling fan," and how we know it's fake. I think that distinction must be made and something must be clarified: a wrestling fan must be an analytical thinker. The "average fan" has the attention span of 0.3 seconds and will buy into anything. And wrestling is multi-layered like that, which is also part of its popularity and success.
It appeals to the most basic of desires: power, sex, violence.
It has the potential to appeal on a deeper level: perseverance, the facing of one's demons, redemption of a "heel," etc.
It has the potential to force us to think, like the clip is attempting to pick wrestling apart and analyze it.
But what is wrestling? Aside from the amateur competition and Greco-Roman history of it, what is American Pro Wrestling? Is it the distraction from the drudges of everyday life, or is it a "more civilized" form of Roman Gladiator games, in which our concepts of life have become elevated and moral death is far more satisfying that physical demise?
Is it multifaceted and multi-layered, or am I pulling all of this out of my ass?
Forgive the ramblings, but please, above all else - discuss....