What I think is the WWE's biggest issue today

[RedRegan1005]

I was recently listening to talk is jericho, and a few shows back he had the hardy boyz as guests for two shows. Good listen if you haven't heard it yet.

Anyways, they hit on something that has always been my biggest gripe with WWE's current product. They discuss how back in WWE's hay day through the late 90's and early 200's every person on the card got attention from creative as far as they all had a gimmick, and all had a storyline and were getting over. Now they put all their focus on the main event and don't give the rest of the card the attention it deserves. Those weren't the exact words but pretty close, as i'm paraphrasing. This is something I have complained about for awhile now. WWE puts so much effort in making the top storylines feel big, and get over that the lower parts of the card suffer. They make the point of saying that back when Rock and Austin were on top Vince didn't have to worry as much about the top of the card getting over and was able to work more of the other stuff, and today they seem to have tunnel vision and focus solely on the top angle(s). I totally agree it hurts your overall product, including the mid card titles. If wwe took more time making mid card, and lower card wrestlers, and titles get over. Then it would make the stuff up top look even bigger! I agree with the saying that a team is only as strong as its weakest player. Thats great if the top of the card that covers 10 - 15% of a show is great but if the other 85% comes across as unimportant then it takes away from the whole show.

I will admit lately WWE does seem to be putting more attention on getting the rest of the card over, but I think they could even more. If i watch a low/ mid card feud and say wow this is awesome these guys are great! Then I'll watch the top feud and think that its amazing! This is what i think is the biggest issue with the current product. What do you guys think?

 

[Chicago1989]

That's exactly what I see in today's WWE product. They only focus on the top storylines and put very little effort on creating a storyline for everyone else. That's why it looks like the mid to lower card guys are phoning it in. They just get put into a random match with someone without developing their characters or a storyline.

WWE just needs to fire their creative team. They've been slacking and not even bothering to improve the product for too long.

 

[MC_Live]

It's been that way for a long time now. It's sad. Part of it is the amount of content they put out. They have five hours a week just with RAW and SmackDown. RAW should really be 2 hours. That will help increase the quality of the product. Then with less product to fill, every second would feel that much more important. The next step is just giving a crap. It's so blatantly obvious when somebody doesn't give a crap, be it the writers or the wrestlers. Also, they need to be bookers more so than writers. They can't script every word and every second of TV. If they just give talents general direction of where they want to go, and let the talents work themselves, then they can get more story lines created and the talent will look like they care because they're saying and doing what they want, not what the writers tell them to do.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that everyone had a gimmick and everyone was getting over. There's a difference between getting some degree of a response from fans and genuinely getting over.

The Hardy Boys themselves didn't really have much of a gimmick, they were genuinely into all that Emo stuff back in the day and it was reflected in their wrestling attire.

Steve Blackman had no gimmick, he was just flat out dull as dishwater and nobody gave a crap about him.

Triple H started out with a gimmick, but it didn't exactly get over and he didn't get over until he became more of who he actually is. Same with Shawn Michaels in that he didn't really have to have a gimmick, his attitude in & of itself was his gimmick.

Besides, as I recall, a lot of the wrestlers who were using gimmicks weren't exactly well received in the long run or weren't taken seriously.

Val Venis' appeal started to go downhill fairly soon once it was shown that his gimmick was little more than one double entendre after another.

Al Snow talked to a mannequin head.

Crash Holly was a cruiserweight who's gimmick was operating under the delusion he was 400 pounds.

Kai En Tai was a stable of Japanese wrestlers who's most memorable moment in WWF was "chopping off" Val Venis' dick with a katana.

Ken Shamrock's identity was based on his MMA background and while not as dull as Steve Blackman, he was still incredibly dull. Probably his most memorable aspect was his feud with Val Venis over Venis messing around with his "sister", Ryan Shamrock.

At the end of the day, for the most part, much of the strength lay in the guys who carried the company during the late 90s to early 2000s and their greatness gets assigned to a lot of other guys as a whole. As a whole, it was all about Austin, Rock, Taker, Triple H, Angle and a few others. As far as tag teams went, it was all about the Hardy Boys, Dudley Boyz and Edge & Christian.

As far as storylines go, it's a mixed bag. More emphasis has always been put on top storylines for a reason: because they're the top storylines. When WWE puts emphasis on other storylines & angles, more often than not, people complain every bit as much if they'd put no emphasis. For instance, people have said they've wanted Divas to have actual storylines, but look at the complaints now that they're getting them. People want to see things switched now and again from the typical formula, yet look at the complaints regarding Henry & Rusev closing out Raw a few weeks ago while Cena & Lesnar were moved to the "halftime" portion of the show.

I do agree about the heavily scripted aspects of Raw and as much as people want to lay the blame on creative, it ultimately comes down to one person: Vince McMahon. Vince has to approve what goes on, what doesn't, who gets pushed, who doesn't, etc. As I've said in various threads, look at the difference in how Triple H runs NXT and how Vince runs the main roster. Promos aren't scripted in NXT, Triple H did away with it almost as soon as he took over, Trips gives the wrestlers the opportunity to use their own words. Some of the time, the writers just ultimately give Vince what he wants to see because they're too frustrated on trying to reason with him. WWE ultimately has to do with what Vince says, so the buck ultimately has to stop with him because the company's not a democracy. Even though it's a publicly traded company, Vince is still the CEO and holds 95+ percent of the voting power. A lot of the problems going on with creative right now aren't really problems, they're simply how things have always been through the decades in numerous companies.

However, there are some problems that are somewhat unique to wrestling companies in the modern era. When you look at Raw lately, it's easy to see that Vince is putting his two cents worth in creatively more often than we've seen for much of 2014, really even to 2013. There's definitely been a heavy "sports entertainment" feel to Raw for the past several weeks ranging from the Damien "Mizdow" character, Diva matches going back to 90 seconds & comprised of silliness, Divas who can't wrestle worth a damn being featured in matches, Slater Gator vs. Adam Rose & The Bunny, Hornswoggle returning last night, darker characters like The Wyatt Family being MIA, playing hot potato with the IC & Divas Championships and a few other things. Vince loves the "sports entertainment" aspects and I get the feeling that he believes it'll help draw more fans during this difficult period of time, which gives weight to the notion of Vince being out of touch with fans today.

 

[BeastFromTheEast]

I agree that they haven't focused quite enough on making everybody relevant. With a part-time champion and top tier talent being on the shelf due to injury, I think we'll see a little more focus on the under utilized talent. My main grip about the current product isn't really the product itself. The fans are what is wrong with today's WWE. Stop cheering the bad guys!!!!! Cheering the bad guys does nothing but damper their careers and force story lines to be scrapped/changed. A heel is supposed to be loathed and booed out of the building. That is what measures success for someone playing a heel character. Last nights "Thank you Rollins" chant was utterly despicable by the crowd. Until the fans stop trying to control and own the show, we won't have that product that we all seem so nostalgic for.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The Hardy Boys themselves didn't really have much of a gimmick, they were genuinely into all that Emo stuff back in the day and it was reflected in their wrestling attire.

I'd agree with that. Back then, Hardy Boys vs. the Dudleys wasn't about gimmicks; it was management saying to the mid-carders: "Put on a great match." Both teams had already built intrigue by virtue of what they had done before.....once the bell rang, it was time to wrestle.

I'd equate that to today's Sheamus vs. Cesaro matches. Yes, you could argue that these are about the U.S. Title, but I don't know who really cares about that. To me, it's more what they can do in the ring, which amounts to hard-fought, rough & tumble matches between two tough guys.

But when you come down to it, that's what mid- and lower- card contests are about: the ring work that goes on during the match. Except in rare cases (ex. Fandango), it's not about any gimmick, it's about the wrestling.....and when you think about it, isn't that what it should be about?

Upper card matches, being higher profile, require more attention given to gimmicks and special stipulations; they naturally need more publicity and build-up.

Give us great matches to watch below main event level.....that's all it takes.

 

[Navi]

After watching RAW last night one of their biggest problems is they don't use half the roster. We're getting the same matches week in and week out. How many times now have we seen RAW end with Rollins, Kane and Orton standing there over either Reigns, Ambrose or Cena.

Jesus Christ Rollins has used his finisher more times in matches he actually hasn't even been a part of to begin with. Getting a little tired of the chicken shit Rollins character. He's gone from being the architect of the Shield to someone you only really see the back off as he's running away. Sorry went a little off topic here.

I haven't seen Fandango, Curtis Axle (I know Ryback is out, but they can still use Axle), Kingston, Woods, Sin Cara and Bray Wyatt (a couple of promo's don't count) in awhile.

When half of your main event guys are out with injuries, then you have to fill that time with what you have in reserve. They somehow don't get that concept, and giving us 3 Diva matches on the flagship show is inexcusable. Someone has to sit down and really rethink who they have and what they can do with them. You can't just rest on your laurels until your injured wrestlers come back. Fans are getting tired of this, and they may not be around when Reigns and Bryan finally make it back into the ring. A lot of casual fans I know have said screw it, they're done.

 

[laodaron]

I would argue that the biggest problem in the WWE right now is the fans. It's the people that grew up in the age of the internet, and grew up thinking that their opinions should matter individually to a billion dollar company.

When I'm watching a show that I like, say, Boardwalk Empire, and they kill a main character, I don't write a letter to HBO on the internet. Let's say that they make a good guy a bad guy. I don't cheer my TV screen.

Professional Wrestling has done something so well, most people don't realize it. They made their fans feel important, and by doing so, they've made a monster called the IWC Smark community. The IWC by itself is a bunch of people that discuss wrestling on the internet. Sometimes, they fantasy book, but mostly, it's a rewarding experience. But then they have the IWC Smarks who think that they could book for the WWE. Those people are such miserable pieces of shit, they will try and ruin the WWE for everyone else that actually enjoys it.

The WWE has more talent right now than they have in close to a decade. The Cena/Lesnar angle feels real, and most of those shots those guys took last Sunday looked awful shoot-like to me. Ambrose, Rollins, The Authority. All great storylines. If you're not trying to be an asshole, it's hard to not find some decent enjoyment out of weekly Raw.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

I would argue that the biggest problem in the WWE right now is the fans. It's the people that grew up in the age of the internet, and grew up thinking that their opinions should matter individually to a billion dollar company.

When I'm watching a show that I like, say, Boardwalk Empire, and they kill a main character, I don't write a letter to HBO on the internet. Let's say that they make a good guy a bad guy. I don't cheer my TV screen.

Professional Wrestling has done something so well, most people don't realize it. They made their fans feel important, and by doing so, they've made a monster called the IWC Smark community. The IWC by itself is a bunch of people that discuss wrestling on the internet. Sometimes, they fantasy book, but mostly, it's a rewarding experience. But then they have the IWC Smarks who think that they could book for the WWE. Those people are such miserable pieces of shit, they will try and ruin the WWE for everyone else that actually enjoys it.

The WWE has more talent right now than they have in close to a decade. The Cena/Lesnar angle feels real, and most of those shots those guys took last Sunday looked awful shoot-like to me. Ambrose, Rollins, The Authority. All great storylines. If you're not trying to be an asshole, it's hard to not find some decent enjoyment out of weekly Raw.

People cheer to the tv because WWE is not telling a good story.

Imagining how something could be good is a direct consequence of seeing something bad, thinking for example of the Cena/Lesnar angle that disregard any storytelling rule and makes Cena come back stronger than ever just a week after looking totally outclassed. Cena basically had no arc, he lost and then in a snap of finger was super-cena again, there was no journey for him to overcome his slump.

It's more than natural to consciously and subconsciously try to "correct" stories so incompetently told.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that everyone had a gimmick and everyone was getting over. There's a difference between getting some degree of a response from fans and genuinely getting over.

The Hardy Boys themselves didn't really have much of a gimmick, they were genuinely into all that Emo stuff back in the day and it was reflected in their wrestling attire.

Steve Blackman had no gimmick, he was just flat out dull as dishwater and nobody gave a crap about him.

Triple H started out with a gimmick, but it didn't exactly get over and he didn't get over until he became more of who he actually is. Same with Shawn Michaels in that he didn't really have to have a gimmick, his attitude in & of itself was his gimmick.

Besides, as I recall, a lot of the wrestlers who were using gimmicks weren't exactly well received in the long run or weren't taken seriously.

Val Venis' appeal started to go downhill fairly soon once it was shown that his gimmick was little more than one double entendre after another.

Al Snow talked to a mannequin head.

Crash Holly was a cruiserweight who's gimmick was operating under the delusion he was 400 pounds.

Kai En Tai was a stable of Japanese wrestlers who's most memorable moment in WWF was "chopping off" Val Venis' dick with a katana.

Ken Shamrock's identity was based on his MMA background and while not as dull as Steve Blackman, he was still incredibly dull. Probably his most memorable aspect was his feud with Val Venis over Venis messing around with his "sister", Ryan Shamrock.

At the end of the day, for the most part, much of the strength lay in the guys who carried the company during the late 90s to early 2000s and their greatness gets assigned to a lot of other guys as a whole. As a whole, it was all about Austin, Rock, Taker, Triple H, Angle and a few others. As far as tag teams went, it was all about the Hardy Boys, Dudley Boyz and Edge & Christian.

As far as storylines go, it's a mixed bag. More emphasis has always been put on top storylines for a reason: because they're the top storylines. When WWE puts emphasis on other storylines & angles, more often than not, people complain every bit as much if they'd put no emphasis. For instance, people have said they've wanted Divas to have actual storylines, but look at the complaints now that they're getting them. People want to see things switched now and again from the typical formula, yet look at the complaints regarding Henry & Rusev closing out Raw a few weeks ago while Cena & Lesnar were moved to the "halftime" portion of the show.

I do agree about the heavily scripted aspects of Raw and as much as people want to lay the blame on creative, it ultimately comes down to one person: Vince McMahon. Vince has to approve what goes on, what doesn't, who gets pushed, who doesn't, etc. As I've said in various threads, look at the difference in how Triple H runs NXT and how Vince runs the main roster. Promos aren't scripted in NXT, Triple H did away with it almost as soon as he took over, Trips gives the wrestlers the opportunity to use their own words. Some of the time, the writers just ultimately give Vince what he wants to see because they're too frustrated on trying to reason with him. WWE ultimately has to do with what Vince says, so the buck ultimately has to stop with him because the company's not a democracy. Even though it's a publicly traded company, Vince is still the CEO and holds 95+ percent of the voting power. A lot of the problems going on with creative right now aren't really problems, they're simply how things have always been through the decades in numerous companies.

However, there are some problems that are somewhat unique to wrestling companies in the modern era. When you look at Raw lately, it's easy to see that Vince is putting his two cents worth in creatively more often than we've seen for much of 2014, really even to 2013. There's definitely been a heavy "sports entertainment" feel to Raw for the past several weeks ranging from the Damien "Mizdow" character, Diva matches going back to 90 seconds & comprised of silliness, Divas who can't wrestle worth a damn being featured in matches, Slater Gator vs. Adam Rose & The Bunny, Hornswoggle returning last night, darker characters like The Wyatt Family being MIA, playing hot potato with the IC & Divas Championships and a few other things. Vince loves the "sports entertainment" aspects and I get the feeling that he believes it'll help draw more fans during this difficult period of time, which gives weight to the notion of Vince being out of touch with fans today.

It's fair to say 99% of the Attitude Era roster DID have a gimmick of some description, even in a simple nickname. You cite Steve Blackman as being dull but he was "The Lethal Weapon" in terms of gimmick, he was given an identity with his knowledge of fighting styles and his seriousness was used to drive storylines like Head Cheese... At least Shamrock WAS given a sister for the storyline, not brilliant stuff by any stretch, but it was a great example of the whole roster having a story. The only "no gimmick" guys were guys like Dan Severn or Steve Williams and they had the legit credentials to truly be "no gimmick necessary", but not having one hurt them.

It wasn't an exclusive Attitude Era concept though, most of the mid 80's to late 90's also had that... Look at how Mania 7 was booked for example, not only did everyone have a gimmick but had a proper "feud" going into Mania, from the Main Event of Slaughter/Hogan and Warrior/Savage to Bulldog and Warlord feuding over the Full Nelson. Once WM11 rolled around they seemed to ditch that style of booking for a bit and more recently it's been ditched.

The problem today isn't so much that they don't have stories for all etc it's that the sheer increase in TV output means 90% of matchups have already been seen so it's harder to re-present them in a fresh way. In that Hogan era, you might get a feud over 3 PPV's maximum but the actual confronations/matches would be limited...and you wouldn't see those combos again. Hogan didn't re-feud with Big Bossman for example. You might get odd "rematches" or reccuring matchups but these were special because they were rare... Rude v Warrior for the title (despite WWE wasting it) seemed special because despite seeing it before, we knew Rude COULD have beaten Warrior and had done so, Bret v Shawn or Perfect were similar... when they happened they were events... In today's WWE finding two guys who have never faced each other before or that facing each other is an event is nigh on impossible unless they are literally new to the company.

Take Wade Barrett, when he returns it's likely gonna be as a face and one of the logical "stepping stones" for him to become a main eventer would be a feud with Orton and The Authority... except this would be the 4th time he's feuded with Orton... the only difference would be that Barrett is the face. Finding a story to make that work is much harder as a result. Put that through the card and roster and the issue is clear to see. Then add in Vince "filtering" everything and only caring about his cash cows... and it becomes a big gaping wound on the show...

 

[Navi]

I would argue that the biggest problem in the WWE right now is the fans. It's the people that grew up in the age of the internet, and grew up thinking that their opinions should matter individually to a billion dollar company.

Professional Wrestling has done something so well, most people don't realize it. They made their fans feel important, and by doing so, they've made a monster called the IWC Smark community. The IWC by itself is a bunch of people that discuss wrestling on the internet. Sometimes, they fantasy book, but mostly, it's a rewarding experience. But then they have the IWC Smarks who think that they could book for the WWE. Those people are such miserable pieces of shit, they will try and ruin the WWE for everyone else that actually enjoys it.

The WWE has more talent right now than they have in close to a decade. The Cena/Lesnar angle feels real, and most of those shots those guys took last Sunday looked awful shoot-like to me. Ambrose, Rollins, The Authority. All great storylines. If you're not trying to be an asshole, it's hard to not find some decent enjoyment out of weekly Raw.

Oh I think you couldn't be more wrong. Now I know the WWE has people that surf these kinds of websites to get a finger on the pulse of what wrestling fans want. But if you think for one minute that one thread on any of these sites, is going to get them to change their minds then you're mistaken.

Our opinions only matter to us, and while I'm sure the WWE might read them, what do they do with them. I'll tell you HHH makes fun of them on a promo spot on RAW. The WWE hasn't made us feel important, we've made ourselves feel important. I see the IWC as a place to vent how I feel about what I'm watching, more than giving the WWE a piece of my mind, because they don't give a damm about me. At least the posters here know what I'm talking about. I can count on one hand my friends who actually watch the WWE or know what's going on with it, so talking about it to them is useless.

Of course people will try to fantasy book, not because they're pieces of shit, but it's what they would like to see happen. Does it mean it's going too, no of course not, but nothing wrong with it.

And I always find something enjoyable on RAW, but if you think that RAW is outstanding these days, then my friend you have very low standards. They could be doing so much better with what they have, and they just aren't even trying by the looks of things. With some of their top people out with injuries now is the time to elevate some of the lower card and make some decent matches. That isn't happening and all we are seeing is the same thing week after week. I haven't counted but I've seen Kane/Orton/Rollins/Cena/Ambrose/Reigns close the show how many weeks now? And it's always the same thing. Match starts, Rollins interfere's, and either the face or faces get beat down or Rollins run's away. Once okay, twice we get it, more than three times, hire new writers.

 

[laodaron]

Oh I think you couldn't be more wrong. Now I know the WWE has people that surf these kinds of websites to get a finger on the pulse of what wrestling fans want. But if you think for one minute that one thread on any of these sites, is going to get them to change their minds then you're mistaken.

Our opinions only matter to us, and while I'm sure the WWE might read them, what do they do with them. I'll tell you HHH makes fun of them on a promo spot on RAW. The WWE hasn't made us feel important, we've made ourselves feel important. I see the IWC as a place to vent how I feel about what I'm watching, more than giving the WWE a piece of my mind, because they don't give a damm about me. At least the posters here know what I'm talking about. I can count on one hand my friends who actually watch the WWE or know what's going on with it, so talking about it to them is useless.

Of course people will try to fantasy book, not because they're pieces of shit, but it's what they would like to see happen. Does it mean it's going too, no of course not, but nothing wrong with it.

And I always find something enjoyable on RAW, but if you think that RAW is outstanding these days, then my friend you have very low standards. They could be doing so much better with what they have, and they just aren't even trying by the looks of things.

So, I guess you decided to not really read my post. I think fantasy booking is fine. It's the people that think they actually KNOW better than creative are the idiots. I said the IWC is fine, it's a place to discuss wrestling. The IWC smart marks are the idiots. It's the instant access to information that has ruined wrestling. And if you think the product is worse now than in 2004, you're out of your mind.

 

[Navi]

So, I guess you decided to not really read my post. I think fantasy booking is fine. It's the people that think they actually KNOW better than creative are the idiots. I said the IWC is fine, it's a place to discuss wrestling. The IWC smart marks are the idiots. It's the instant access to information that has ruined wrestling. And if you think the product is worse now than in 2004, you're out of your mind.

I thought I did read your post, but if I got something wrong then I apologize.

I never said anything was worse than 2004, what I said what they aren't using what they have. So many people have disappeared lately and they could be put in place of injured wrestlers. I don't mean to take their place but be used on TV so we don't have the seemingly rehash of matches every week.

Like where is Fandango, Kingston, Wyatt, Big E, Woods and Axel. We saw Big E last night backstage with Khali, but he's not been on TV in forever, neither have some of the others I mentioned. No excuse to have wrestlers standing around ready to be used and not using them. Just seems like a waste.