What do you think you need more of? Luck or talent?

[Eyebrows]

One of the common arguments that I see against any given wrestler is that he or she wouldn't have made it if events hadn't conspired to provide a unique set of circumstances. This is something that I've read regarding Daniel Bryan, who people argue wouldn't have gotten over in the Attitude Era, and Triple H, who people suggest only managed to get his push due to Austin and Undertaker sitting out the beginning of 2000 and Foley retiring, as well as HBK leaving a few years prior. JBL may never have gotten his run if Lesnar had stayed and Batista might not have been in line for a return this year had Mark Jindrak taken that Evolution spot.

On the flip side there are guys who haven't made it who could have but either the timing was wrong or other circumstances prevented them from reaching the top. Somebody like Muhammad Hassan for political reasons, somebody like Rikishi whose heel turn, injury and then a large influx of new names reduced fan interest, somebody saddled with a bad gimmick such as Matt Morgan (purely concentrating on his WWE run), or somebody like Dr. Death Steve Williams (ignoring Japan) after the Brawl for All.

There have been wrestlers thrust into the main event or upper mid-card without the talent to back it up (Khali) and lots of wrestlers that never made it for various reasons.

So given that wrestling is a fickle business that can quickly change due to injuries, retirements, new signings etc. do you think that the guys who reach the top level are there primarily due to luck or due to talent? Do you think one is more important than the other, even slightly, or are they of equal importance?

Is it a case of raw, pure talent being able to shine through in any era or does timing come into equal play?

 

[BringThePain834]

Since this thread seems to be about part timers, let's have a look at them, shall we?

Chris Jericho: He is in the midcard and has done a great job of putting young guys over.
Undertaker: Well, he's the fucking Undertaker.
The Rock: He's the 3rd biggest star in the history of wrestling, easily the biggest mainstream crossover. Defined a childhood for many of WWE's current fans.
RVD: Like Jericho, is not in the main event scene and puts others over.
HHH: Still a full-time employee, only won one match since his retirement or whatever you'd like to call it, and lost both of his feuds since.
Brock Lesnar: The man's a beast, he regularly puts opponents over even though he has won his last few matches, to the point that multiple people have complained about it.

Now Batista, on the other hand, buried ADR, won the Rumble, and is now in the main event at Wrestlemania, despite clearly not having any kind of buzz around him from when his return was first announced. THAT'S why people are mad, and that's why they're not hypocrites. WWE hasn't failed to make new stars, there aren't new stars to make. Wrestling is on a downswing, there is nobody on Earth that could make wrestling mainstream again, but WWE have plenty of guys to fill the void when they need to. The part timers are a nice luxury, not an absolute necessity. Bray Wyatt. Daniel Bryan. Punk, (if he comes back) Reigns, Rollins, Cesaro. That's seven or eight guys you can build your company around. No, the likes of Wyatt, Cesaro and The Shield aren't quite there yet, but they're well on the way and they clearly have the necessary talent. I wouldn't buy Wyatt/Cesaro/Shield in the main event of Wrestlemania, but I could comfortably see any of them main eventing any other PPV, and by the time the next Wrestlemania comes around, all of those guys will be good to go. Now what I have said here proves that WWE's main event stock is not nearly as low as everybody likes to think it is.

 

[MCMG]

Talent will almost always take someone to the top. Look at guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Rey, RVD, Kane, Jericho just to name a few. All were talented and all achieved great success. It took a while for them all but eventually they all became World Champs.

Luck, however, can always be a factor. Look at Austin. HHH was supposedly going to win the King of the Ring the year Austin won. However, Triple H was part of the incident at Madison Square Garden with the Kliq so Austin won and cut his "3:16" promo. What if the hug never happened? Isn't "Austin 3:16" the highest selling t-shirt in WWE history.

Staying with Austin in a different way: what if the Screwjob never happened? It was the foundation for Vince McMahon to become an incredible heel giving Stone Cold the perfect antagonist.

Austin is incredibly talented and would have been a success; however, two very big incidents that had nothing to do with him helped to turn him into an absolute mega-star; the second biggest in WWE history.

Like I said, talent will almost always rise the top. You might get one guy a generation who should have achieved more but it is very rare. Luck can undoubtedly aid someone's career but we are yet to see someone become a success solely down to it.