What am I missing with Itami?

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

I'm curious to hear from those who followed Itami before he went to NXT.

This can't be it is it?

I have to believe that he showed more than this to gain the following he has, I'm wondering what that is exactly.

His matches have been decent, but nothing special. The creativity and execution of his moves are nothing to write home about, and he doesn't have much of a presence.

I just haven't been that impressed.

Balor and Owens are tearing shit up and I can see why people were jacked when they got signed. I don't see it with Itami.

Was he over-hyped coming in to WWE?

Are there things that he was really good at but can't do in WWE (so he's not the same wrestler)?

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

I too have only seen him on NXT but wow. He comes off like a very very poor mans version of CM Punk to me. Maybe it's who he has been wrestling but either way...a guy with that much hype should be able to do more with nothing either way.

Kevin Owens on the other hand i had never seen until NXT and that dude will be an upper-midcard guy on the main roster by the end of 2015 IMO.

 

[KBeef]

You have to consider the fact that half of his moveset was taken from him and stolen. His finisher is the GTS and more than likely he won't be able to use it anytime soon, another one of his trademark moves is the running knee that Bryan currently uses.
Also in Japan you don't need much charisma to get over, basically be awesome at wrestling and be stiff as hell at times and you are good to go.
His stiff style has also become like diet soda since a lot of people wouldn't want to work with him if he was still kicking guys chest in.
That's what I believe is happening, also he can't talk much since he is still learning English. I am sure once he learns the style and figures everything out he will be good. Trust me a lot of these guys take a while to get used to the WWE style, once they do they are off to the races.

 

[Navi]

I asked the same question a month or so ago and still haven't seen anything that makes the gun jump out of the screen at me. Balor, Owens and Zayn just seem to be so much more advanced in getting the WWE end of it. The biggest problem is probably the language barrier once he can grasp that he'll be better off. He just looks so uncomfortable in the ring though and doesn't stand out at all.

 

[MartialHorror]

I'm not very knowledgeable of wrestling outside of the WWE, but I am aware that there are multiple styles. It's like what Triple H said in his podcast: It's better to start at NXT so you don't pick up any bad habits. I remember when guys started flocking from WCW to WWF and there was friction because things were done differently. I'd presume Itami is just struggling with this new style.

 

[JVel]

I asked the same question a month or so ago and still haven't seen anything that makes the gun jump out of the screen at me. Balor, Owens and Zayn just seem to be so much more advanced in getting the WWE end of it. The biggest problem is probably the language barrier once he can grasp that he'll be better off. He just looks so uncomfortable in the ring though and doesn't stand out at all.

Arguably, those 3 were also more adaptable to the WWE style due to not being far off the mark prior to coming to NXT. They were all at least decent in regards to the ring psychology aspects and just needed to tone things down a hair for the safety of themselves and others. Also no language barrier so probably far easier to work out matches, get coaching, etc from the staff.

Itami on the other hand has always worked a much different style and is basically having to be rebuilt to fit in the new environment. It's going to take quite a bit of time more than likely, especially with him still learning English. There's also the fact that Itami's moveset is kind of in limbo right now with a lot of "signature" stuff already being in use or in use recently. Makes his kit lose some of the appeal when it's things we've seen people like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk integrate heavily in the sets they use. So not only is the guy trying to learn English and break his old habits and style of wrestling, he's also experimenting a bit with a moveset. He has a lot of potential but he'll be one that will need considerable time spent in NXT. They don't want to repeat the Sin Cara fiasco.

 

[MoizH28]

I think it's harder for any international talent to adapt especially when they have broken English. I think Itami will be in NXT for at least another year or so. He can't use most of his move set either cause it's not the "WWE way".

My plan for Itami would be to pair him with someone who can speak or a tag partner while he adapts to the wwe style some more. Maybe throw him in a team with another international talent and let them be "better than" the American teams.

 

[Hem]

I have a strong feeling that Hidel Itami will follow in the steps of Sami Zayn and spenspend 2+ years in NXT.

Im not knocking his talent, I'm just saying it'll take him a lot of time to adapt to the WWE style and learn english.

He isn't overhyped, he's different. If a guy like Hideo was debuting in Japan he would be built up the same way because the dude has that japanese style.

I wish him the best of luck and will try to stay positive and hope he doesn't become another Yosgi Tatsu.

 

[DCLXVI]

They chopped his balls off. First he had to change a great, memorable, easy to say name - KENTA... to Hideo Itami (which he chose to be fair and it was okayed). Then, he had to wrestle the "WWE way" which doesn't make a whole lot sense because he had already wrestled his style for years - and guys like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk and ripped him off from the padded shin guards, to the kicks, to the flying knees, to the Go 2 Sleep.

He was known for wrestling strong style, in other words very stiff and unforgiving strikes. Well now the guy has strikes that aren't as stiff as Daniel Bryan on main roster, and in NXT people seem to be trying to kill each other a lot of the time when it comes to stiffness (Kevin Owens?).

I think he was brought a little too late along in his life, as I said, the padded shinguards, the flying knees, the kicks in the corner, were all poached by wrestlers that are (at least in the US) more charismatic years ago. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. As another poster mentioned, his two old finishers, the G2S and flying knee were taken by CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and they are highly modeled around his work when he was hot in Japan, so that kills the things that made him special.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

If you guys who haven't experienced much outside WWE (and I don't mean that as a dig) want to see more of the likes of Itami and understand why he's so popular, I implore you to research Ring of Honor's back catalogue - especially at what I believe to be their peak, between 2006 and 2009.

Amongst other wrestlers, you will see Daniel Bryan, Itami (as KENTA), Kevin Steen and El Generico (Owens and Zayn), Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) and Claudio 'Cesaro' Castagnoli. All of them have had to tone down their style since joining WWE, for a variety of reasons (eg Owens won't be allowed to use his package pile driver ROH finisher), but you will almost definitely appreciate what this group of wrestlers can do, and hence the anticipation and excitement of them being in the 'big time'.

 

[Blade]

I don't know, it's a difficult situation. He's been wrestling one style his entire life. He's been only doing Japanese stuff for 15 goddamn years. Balor, Zayn and Owens learned all kinds of styles over the years, and they became naturally versatile and adaptable. Itami doesn't have that luxury.

Only time will tell if he can catch up. I sincerely hope he reaches his potential as a WWE guy, because it would truly terrible if he became a joke like Sin Cara.

Also, could anyone who's complaining about Punk stealing the GTS kindly go play in traffic? The fact that Punk used the GTS in WWE for so many years has HELPED Itami. You hear that pop every time Itami lifts someone on to his shoulders? That pop is the fucking excitement of seeing the GTS being teased by its creator, and that pop wouldn't happen without CM Punk.

 

[KBeef]

I don't know, it's a difficult situation. He's been wrestling one style his entire life. He's been only doing Japanese stuff for 15 goddamn years. Balor, Zayn and Owens learned all kinds of styles over the years, and they became naturally versatile and adaptable. Itami doesn't have that luxury.

Only time will tell if he can catch up. I sincerely hope he reaches his potential as a WWE guy, because it would truly terrible if he became a joke like Sin Cara.

Also, could anyone who's complaining about Punk stealing the GTS kindly go play in traffic? The fact that Punk used the GTS in WWE for so many years has HELPED Itami. You hear that pop every time Itami lifts someone on to his shoulders? That pop is the fucking excitement of seeing the GTS being teased by its creator, and that pop wouldn't happen without CM Punk.

I don't think its people really complaining, its more that now he probably wont be able to use it because of the relationship with Punk.
Bryan stole some his moves also. Had he been signed a few years ago I'm sure this would not be a problem.
But this gets him more exposure and long term helps him.

 

[KBeef]

If you guys who haven't experienced much outside WWE (and I don't mean that as a dig) want to see more of the likes of Itami and understand why he's so popular, I implore you to research Ring of Honor's back catalogue - especially at what I believe to be their peak, between 2006 and 2009.

Amongst other wrestlers, you will see Daniel Bryan, Itami (as KENTA), Kevin Steen and El Generico (Owens and Zayn), Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) and Claudio 'Cesaro' Castagnoli. All of them have had to tone down their style since joining WWE, for a variety of reasons (eg Owens won't be allowed to use his package pile driver ROH finisher), but you will almost definitely appreciate what this group of wrestlers can do, and hence the anticipation and excitement of them being in the 'big time'.

Almost everyone you mentioned had to change their finishing moves once the came to the WWE, so after having an ending to your story for so many years now you go somewhere new and get told to write a similar book but with a new ending will always be an adjustment. I think they have done quite well so far.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

Sadly he hasn't adapted well to the WWE style. Just go back and watch a couple of his indy matches and you see how he was much better with that style (Tyler Black vs KENTA I seem to remember was quite the awesome match)

 

[OYDK]

Just imagine a Japanese promotion monopolized the wrestling industry instead of the WWE... let's just use NJPW as an example. So NJPW is the "big leagues" and WWE is basically considered an "indy promotion" in this alternate universe. Now imagine that you've made it big in the WWE and the big leagues (NJPW) start knocking on your door. They sign you, hype you to the moon, and throw you in there pretty much right away.

Well now you're faced with learning Japanese just to be able to communicate with anybody around you, the fans don't really know you because you came from America instead of Japan but they know you're supposed to be pretty good, you're forced to adapt to an entirely new wrestling style (which must be almost like learning to walk again), and you have the pressure of being signed along Devitt and Steen... Two guys who the "Japanese" fans know fairly well. Is it really any surprise that Itami isn't hanging with Balor and Owens at this point?

Making the transition from international star (especially Japan) to the WWE, is much tougher than being signed from ROH or TNA. There are just many more roadblocks that they have to deal with. I'd say don't worry about Itami. It may take a lot longer for him to develop than Owens and Devitt but he'll be fine in the long run. People just have to give him a chance and be patient.

 

[Kamala316]

Excellent post, and it seems we all agree on what's missing with Itami. In today's WWE, if you don't have the gift of gab, you damn sure better be able to go in the ring. So seeing that Itami is learning English, it's up to his in-ring work and moveset to do his talking for him. But as many of you have mentioned, the problem is that the WWE universe is already used to his moveset, thanks to CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. When I look at Itami's previous work, his physicality and delivery are second to none. It made me think of how (and I know this is a stretch) Hardcore Holly finally got over by being more physical in the ring; he let his in-ring work speak for itself (just like Tajiri and his kicks). So to help Itami, I would do two things: First, build up a storyline between Itami and a face, and at the next NXT live show, set up a singles or tag match involving Itami and a face where Itami is very stiff, lands the running knee and the GTS, and looks pissed after the match (singles match), or have Itami turn on the face after the tag match. Second, turn him heel and either give him a mouthpiece or don't let him talk; let the in-ring work do the talking. Heyman would be perfect, but maybe there is an NXT talent that they could team up with him. I know it's early for a gimmick change, but at this moment, the "it factor" isn't there, and I'm afraid he will be lost in the shuffle if they don't do something with him.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

Almost everyone you mentioned had to change their finishing moves once the came to the WWE, so after having an ending to your story for so many years now you go somewhere new and get told to write a similar book but with a new ending will always be an adjustment. I think they have done quite well so far.

I think that's part of the appeal, to me at least. Depending in roster position and nature of the match/show, WWE from time to time will allow certain wrestlers to bust out moves that we see rarely - take for example Chris Jericho's Lion Tamer, which he used a handful of times in WWE and looks WAY better than his standard Walls of Jericho Boston Crab. IF they ever pull the trigger on Cesaro, I would pop so hard if he even once was allowed to perform his no arms aeroplane spin.

There's an anticipation of what we might see, even though usually we don't (Daniel Bryan's Cattle Mutilation, for exanple, which he's probably used about 3 times in WWE)

 

[InZayn]

The only way Itami is getting close over on the main roster is if they turn him heel give him a strong mouth peice aka Paul Heyman or William Regal. Make the dark powerful heel that doesnt lose, but other than that he wont get over because he cant speak english well therefore he wont be able to make good promos and eventually turn into a Yoshi Tatsu type person.

 

[sMark]

I think Itami should do the moves americans expect from the japanese looking guy - shining wizards, enzuigiri, myst, dragon screws, armdrags and some submissions, he can also use tornado DDTs from the corner, maybe vertebreaker and reverse fameasser (like Big Show used)
As for submissions, i think the one Orton did to Christian back in 2011 (reverse Boston Crab) can easily become one of Hideo's trademark moves.

Basically he need to built a new moveset, more in WWE style and be able to tell stories with it.

As for character, either pair him up with some fan favorite for a tag team run, or make him a silent asassin working for Authority.

 

[rmp0012002]

I don't think NXT has made him change his style, you don't get your balls cut off until you move up to the main roster. Not knowing English could be creating a problem how he works in the ring or maybe he's trying to wrestle a different style so he doesn't look like he is stealing other people's moves while they took them from him.

 

[DCLXVI]

I think Itami should do the moves americans expect from the japanese looking guy - shining wizards, enzuigiri, myst, dragon screws, armdrags and some submissions, he can also use tornado DDTs from the corner, maybe vertebreaker and reverse fameasser (like Big Show used)
As for submissions, i think the one Orton did to Christian back in 2011 (reverse Boston Crab) can easily become one of Hideo's trademark moves.

Basically he need to built a new moveset, more in WWE style and be able to tell stories with it.

As for character, either pair him up with some fan favorite for a tag team run, or make him a silent asassin working for Authority.

Maybe I'm nitpicking but he could never use the vertebreaker... it's a banned move in WWE and was taken from Shane Helms.

I don't have a problem with the diving stomp or some type of kick or submission. With his size there is no way he is going to be able to do some type of heavy lifting move or move that requires height.

I think another thing stated is his kick flurries and flying knee are already used arguably better or just as good there by Daniel Bryan... and Daniel Bryan also has suicide dives, submissions, lots of wrestling holds to boot. Not saying those kicks shouldn't be a major staple of his offense.

I don't think it even comes down to how good he is in the ring. Asians are traditionally treated like shit in WWE, with the exception of Tajiri who Paul Heyman had already taken a chance on building as a dangerous threat in ECW and he had the green mist gimmick. He still went from top of the card to mid card guy. He wasn't treated too awful though aside from comedy crap. I liked what I saw someone post on this or another Hideo Itami thread, the idea of him being a silent assassin type for the authority, with a good manager. You make another good point as well, maybe a tag team... a Japanese tag team he meshes well in - it'd help him have a guy with him that could speak the same language and they already have Hispanic and Samoan tag teams. There are a lot of possible angles there. If he does make it to WWE I see him turned into stereotypical Japanesey comedy jobber, whereas I think what Triple H was going for when he signed him was an actual legit Japanese/Asian Face for the company.

EDIT: I also want to add that while they were trying to maybe make the crowd sympathize with Itami, he came in with a lot of hype and basically got beat up and jumped by the Ascension for what felt like lasted over 2 months. I don't think that helped his acclimation to the company... I know they were trying to build up to a tag match between The Ascension and Finn Balor but boy did it last way too long. Kevin Owens came in and just steamrolled Sami for the title. In less time than Itami was randomly getting beat up by The Ascension and not looking good in the process.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

To be honest, I haven't been particularly impressed with Itami in NXT yet. Granted, I haven't watched all of his matches but the ones I have seen haven't blown me away.

He's obviously extremely talented, as his stuff in Japan proves- which is why there was such a buzz about him coming to the US...but I haven't seen anything special so far. He's obviously on a learning curve learning a new style of wrestling and the language barrier is certainly holding him back- although is clearning trying hard to learn English and is improving all the time.

I expect he'll get better and better, and I realy do hope he's a success in WWE. The one thing that puzzles me is the fact they haven't yet let him use the GTS finishing move. So what if CM Punk used it in WWE, Itami was the innovator of the move and as Punk has basically told WWE to "fuck themselves", I'm really surprised they haven't immediately given Itami the permission to use the move as a "fuck you too" move to Punk.

They've teased him using it on several occasions to a big pop, so I think he WILL use it, but maybe it's being saved for a big match. I think it should become his normal finisher again though, with Punk out of the company (and not looking like he's returning any time soon) there isnt a reason to stop Hideo from using it.

 

[OYDK]

I expect he'll get better and better, and I realy do hope he's a success in WWE. The one thing that puzzles me is the fact they haven't yet let him use the GTS finishing move. So what if CM Punk used it in WWE, Itami was the innovator of the move and as Punk has basically told WWE to "fuck themselves", I'm really surprised they haven't immediately given Itami the permission to use the move as a "fuck you too" move to Punk.

They've teased him using it on several occasions to a big pop, so I think he WILL use it, but maybe it's being saved for a big match. I think it should become his normal finisher again though, with Punk out of the company (and not looking like he's returning any time soon) there isnt a reason to stop Hideo from using it.

I assume the reason for this is because, again, the majority of WWE fans have absolutely no clue who KENTA is and have probably never seen one of his matches before. The fact that Itami's teased GTS' get pops at NXT Tapings, kind of shows that the Full Sail University fans are "indy marks" and knew Itami when he was KENTA.

However the casual WWE fan would take it as "this Japanese guy is stealing moves from C.M Punk! We can't let that happen! C.M PUNK! C.M. PUNK!" The many ignorant C.M Punk apologists would do their best to bury the shit out of Itami for using that move. It would just be a MASSIVE risk to debut Itami on the main roster with the GTS, because sure, WE love and respect what he did and does in the ring, but to the casuals, Itami is the equivalent of, say a Titus O' Neal. What that means is, many probably only know him from his signing, and fewer probably know him from NXT, so he will have to prove himself before the fans accept him. To them, using the GTS would be like Heath Slater pulling out The Stunner all of the sudden. Don't get me wrong, it sucks because Itami IS the actual innovator of the GTS, but sadly, that move will probably be buried along with C.M. Punk.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I assume the reason for this is because, again, the majority of WWE fans have absolutely no clue who KENTA is and have probably never seen one of his matches before. The fact that Itami's teased GTS' get pops at NXT Tapings, kind of shows that the Full Sail University fans are "indy marks" and knew Itami when he was KENTA.

However the casual WWE fan would take it as "this Japanese guy is stealing moves from C.M Punk! We can't let that happen! C.M PUNK! C.M. PUNK!" The many ignorant C.M Punk apologists would do their best to bury the shit out of Itami for using that move. It would just be a MASSIVE risk to debut Itami on the main roster with the GTS, because sure, WE love and respect what he did and does in the ring, but to the casuals, Itami is the equivalent of, say a Titus O' Neal. What that means is, many probably only know him from his signing, and fewer probably know him from NXT, so he will have to prove himself before the fans accept him. To them, using the GTS would be like Heath Slater pulling out The Stunner all of the sudden. Don't get me wrong, it sucks because Itami IS the actual innovator of the GTS, but sadly, that move will probably be buried along with C.M. Punk.

Very good point, that is quite likely to be the reason. Why didn't I think of that?! To be honest, I think they could get round that by the announce team educating the fans at home and selling the shit out of the fact Kenta/Itami was the originator of the move, saying things like "there has been pale imatations, but there is no-one in the world who can deliver the GTS quite like it's innovator, the man who made it famous- Hideo Itami" etc.

But like you say, the WWE are so worried about any CM Punk chants that they will likely prevent Itami from using the move, except on maybe the rare occasion such as a title match.

 

[Kris Benwa]

I assume the reason for this is because, again, the majority of WWE fans have absolutely no clue who KENTA is and have probably never seen one of his matches before. The fact that Itami's teased GTS' get pops at NXT Tapings, kind of shows that the Full Sail University fans are "indy marks" and knew Itami when he was KENTA.

However the casual WWE fan would take it as "this Japanese guy is stealing moves from C.M Punk! We can't let that happen! C.M PUNK! C.M. PUNK!" The many ignorant C.M Punk apologists would do their best to bury the shit out of Itami for using that move. It would just be a MASSIVE risk to debut Itami on the main roster with the GTS, because sure, WE love and respect what he did and does in the ring, but to the casuals, Itami is the equivalent of, say a Titus O' Neal. What that means is, many probably only know him from his signing, and fewer probably know him from NXT, so he will have to prove himself before the fans accept him. To them, using the GTS would be like Heath Slater pulling out The Stunner all of the sudden. Don't get me wrong, it sucks because Itami IS the actual innovator of the GTS, but sadly, that move will probably be buried along with C.M. Punk.

NXT fans may have popped for it because when they brought him they said he was Kenta a Japanese legend and those that may not have seen his work may have had a chance to before he actually teased the move? I think if he's going to use it the first time should be in NXT. That way it'll get a pop and they can explain that he originated the move. Then if they decide to let him whip it out every now and then on the main roster they'll have NXT footage to refer to instead of stuff from Japan

I like Hideo. I agree he hasn't been off the chain since debuting but we know what he can do and we know he's still learning and adapting WWE style. Some guys get it quicker some guys don't. Give him time to get better and he will impress