Were We Spoiled

[bulldog76]

This past week, WWE released Greatest Stars of the 90's celebrating the likes of Hogan, Taker, HBK, Stone Cold, The Rock and many more. In the late 90's to the early millenium we had a chance to witness not just the greatest that we will ever see, but to see them go one-on-one. Minus Austin vs. Hogan, there were not a lot of feuds that went unseen. Some flopped. Some exploded. Many of these guys were years in the making and many were break-out. Heck, look at some of the guys that never held world titles for the three major promotions (Razor Ramon, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog, Rick Rude). So a great decade for wrestling.

With so many different factors leading to the IWC's displeasure of today's current product, I ask, were we spoiled by what we witnessed around a decade ago? Are we too busy trying to find the "next HBK" to enjoy today's product? Maybe today's guys don't have the respect, business savvy, or dedication that yesterday's talent had. Maybe it is a combonation of things. But were we spoiled or is there something else wrong?

I know what I think but before I post my thoughts, I am interested in yours. That is why I started looking at these forums; to see others perspecives.

 

[HeadlessGnome]

Hell yes we were spoiled, Cena/Orton/Edge just won't live up to Austin/Rock/HBK/Hart/Taker/Hogan/Sting/Goldberg - 90s was the golden age, oh how I miss watching Nitro and RAW at the same time.

There were far more dedicated and skillful guys IMO back then - where's this generation's Malenko/Benoit/HBK/Hart as for technical wrestling skills? Even some of the best promos in the last few years feel nothing like your average Rock promo.

Though I hope it's a matter of time before there's a new future legend - today's current crop aren't cutting it.

 

[Age of Orton]

I don't think we we're spoiled, it boils down to tv time/ppv's.. back in the early 90s you only had raw and superstars (for WWE) and 5 PPV's, then in May 1995 WWE intercepted the "In Your House" brand of shows, and from then they were a glorified Smackdown/RAW of today, maybe one or two feuds on TV were aired on the IYH shows, most were dark matches and shown on one of the bigger PPV's, but if WWE only had two or three hours TV time per week and say 16 hours of PPV time (four 3 hour PPV's and Mania 4 hours) you'd see less title changes.. but as fans with the amount of TV time going on we'd get sick of long runs (check out JBL 2004/05 or Cena 2006-07 year long run.. ) you get sick there is only so long a champion can hold his belt when you have them on every PPV.

My point is today we have to much TV time, to the poster who said Bulldog/Rude/Perfect and Ramon as world champions, I could guarantee you if they were in today's era they'd all be multi-time world champions.. but WWE IMO could do with cutting some PPV's and reverting to maybe 6 (and do the old IYH format) with the others only show casing lower talent and one decent match for a low price.

 

[Mark0820]

The problem with today's product and the product of the 90s is that WWE let their older guys go to WCW and built up the younger guys like Austin and Rock. Now, the older guys like HBK, Taker, HHH do not put over the younger guys. If Cena were suddenly hit with a career ending injury, WWE would be screwed. They have no one take up the mantle as face of the company. When Hogan left, they had Hart and HBK. When Hart left, they had Austin, Rock, and Taker. They simply don't have the name recognition they did when Hogan left. The next generation of legends aren't around simply because the WWE's booking is terrible.

 

[Scott Free]

With so many different factors leading to the IWC's displeasure of today's current product, I ask, were we spoiled by what we witnessed around a decade ago? Are we too busy trying to find the "next HBK" to enjoy today's product? Maybe today's guys don't have the respect, business savvy, or dedication that yesterday's talent had. Maybe it is a combonation of things. But were we spoiled or is there something else wrong?

I know what I think but before I post my thoughts, I am interested in yours. That is why I started looking at these forums; to see others perspecives.

There's obviously something else wrong. The product has been over exposed, and it's time for some drastic changes, and they aren't happening. Long title reigns are a thing of the past now, but guess what ? It's basically the SAME GUYS trading belts, you can't help catching on. Now, one can be a TNA hater, but at the same time, one can't help but notice that there is some truth in their current "Main Event Mafia" angle. Sure, a company needs to put people it can trust in key position, but hell, it doesn't take long to figure out that they don't trust too many people. If you want to keep up a fast title turnover, then let younger, new talent come up, if you want to keep a long title reign going, then let younger new talent come up and challenge constantly, not like Orton, who'se being raised up by process of osmosis, Swagger is more an example of a new guy who went straight to the top, true, of their C product, but it was a change of pace, they need to do that with their A product to make a difference.We haven't been spoiled, we expect better, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Toscah]

There were far more dedicated and skillful guys IMO back then - where's this generation's Malenko/Benoit/HBK/Hart as for technical wrestling skills? Even some of the best promos in the last few years feel nothing like your average Rock promo.

As far as the whole technical wrestling thing goes I don't think you need to look any further than the current reigning ECW champ: Jack Swagger. He has the best in-ring game I've seen on anybody in a long long time. The match between him and Cena at the draft was one of the best matches I've seen on Raw in quite some time. It is unfortunate he has the lisp which ruins his mic ability. But hey, I wouldn't make fun of him in his face for it.
Also let's not forget about Tyson Kidd, Natalia and now D.H. Smith being drafted over, new Hart foundation anyone?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Were we spoiled from the Attitude Era? Yes. Yes we were. Because we happen to be fans of some of the better wrestlers of all time. Austin made his mark. The Rock, Mankind, DX, even the Nation of Domination and Bret Hart. In WCW, you had your old school stars doing different things. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, Giant, Flair, DDP, Rey, Jericho, Benoit.

I believe we were thoroughly spoiled. I notice that people think we need to go back to the Attitude era of doing things. I don't think it's that drastic, but it needs more of a reality feel. Cena needs to be genuinely mad and give someone a stiff shot to the face. CM Punk is a solid, realistic figure on WWE programming. Orton seems to remind me of Purple Haze Mark Lewin's gimmick from Georgia Championship Wrestling in the early 80's...only Orton talks way more. There needs to be someone who the fans can relate to. Cena is as close as they can get at the moment.

It's hard to face the facts, but we'll never see the pops, matches, and competition like we seen during the Raw/Nitro years. TNA is so far away from being competitive, it's not even funny. ROH isn't trying to compete with anyone. Instead, they're just trying to do the best show they can with what they have. There are more options than before, but all the stars we loved during the Attitude years are gone. Only HHH and Jericho remain from the Main Eventers of the Attitude Era.

We're spoiled, but boy, I'm so damn glad I was a teenager during those years. Some of the best times of my life were at a WWE Live event and a Thunder in Lexington, KY when Flair turned heel. All he had to say was 'Florida BY GOD GATOR' and he was as good as heel in Lexington. Funny as shit. I even marked out and yelled, 'Crazy old bastard' at the Nature Boy. Good times. Good times. Welp, there's always the "Greatest Stars of the 90's" WWE DVD.

 

[Jason Riptide]

It's easy to say we're spoiled, but I would argue we weren't. I think in the end, we all just kind of grew up.

For some of us, the attitude era broke us into it all. For some of us, we were teens during this era and looking back on it brings nostalgia and joy of an earlier, easier life. Yes, we lived through stars like The Rock, Austin, HHH, Jericho, Taker, HBK, Bret Hart, Sting, Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, Mick Foley, etc for the main eventers of that ear.

But you never watch less wresting, if that statement makes any sense. Everytime you see something it gets added to your collective of wrestling experience. And for a lot of us, by the end of the Attitude era, we had seen most of the angles they could take on things, and we started to be able to analyze and see the nuances of each and every match. It stopped just being entertainment and became a critique somewhere in there. We each became experts on the subject in our own right. Lets put each and every single one of us into that place 12 years ago or so with the start of the Attitude Era, and I bet we'd find problems with the show just like we do today. It may not have been perfect, but at the time we may not have realized it any better. We just kind of grew up and our memories of that era have become relics of our pasts that we cherish and hold dear, and something about the current state just doesnt grip us as much (kind of like how old people like older music or older movies.)

Itll be interesting to watch this generation of child/teen fans grow up to be "smart" adults that are part of the wrestling community. Many of them may look back 10 years from now and feel spoiled they got to see Cena, Orton, HHH, Taker, Edge, Mysterio, Angle, Styles, Punk, Hardy, Kane, etc. in the sam way we view guys like the Rock and Austin. They'll talk in their wrestling communities about how good they had it in 2009 because that's what they grew up with. That's what captivated them and drew them into wrestling, and in their older ages and maturities, they find themselves much more critical of the state of wrestling, a different approach that they may have had when every possible angle, match, character was something fresh and new to them.

We weren't spoiled. We just grew up.

 

[Ben-Phillips]

Here's the thing.. I don't think we were exactly 'spoiled'. Now, I'm only 17 years old.. I started watching wrestling before I could even walk, granted, I had no clue what was going on at the time.. Regardless, I caught guys like Sting, Hogan, Hennig, etc. coming to the end of their careers, and I saw people skyrocket.. The first person I was ever a fan of was Chris Jericho, and I've been watching him for thirteen years as a fan.. Sure, this might seem off, but this is what I'm getting at.. I don't think we were spoiled, I think it was just good business.. The wrestling industry wasn't quite as mainstream as it is today, and it's because of these reasons that it is.. It's simply the business growing and, well.. Doing business.

I honestly do believe the wrestlers of today are more talented than those of the past generation... I'll get slammed for that, I know, but here is why I say that.. Back then, the wrestling industry was for... Well, wrestling, entertainment, sure, but it wasn't as verbally oriented as it is today. People today want more than just wrestling, they want, a show.. So, people evolved to wider persona's and focus elsewhere.. Charisma, look, etc. Not to mention the in-ring styles are different. Back then, it was pretty much just whatever style of wrestling you did, you were in companies that focused on that..

People are quite under appreciative of what companies like the WWE and TNA give us nowadays.. I personally prefer both companies quite a bit, though I favor the WWE, and I believe the current companies to any other times.. Yes, I'm saying I would rather watch Raw or SmackDown right now than I would anything from the Attitude Era.. This is why: Back in the early 90's, wrestling was based on strictly wrestling, and a little spice on the side, by the mid-to-late 90's, it was all the angles.. But now, it's everything. In-ring work and the story they're telling..

The only people I really see complaining about the industry now are the Attitude Era marks.. Now sue me, I wasn't that big on the Attitude Era, I was a WCW guy and just never really cared enough to go out of my way to watch the WWF, but I did when, well.. I did? It was great because it was a change, but I don't personally believe it was superior to anything..

Okay, I'll get back to my point, I'm ranting..

As I said before, we weren't "spoiled", we have just evolved passed what the company has used to be, which was pretty much based on the ring technicians and who would get the best responses from their matches.. If you look at it now, now that the company is in fact, as mainstream as it is, it's not that there aren't the same type of performers there used to be, it's just they're not given the chance because it's not what the viewers pay to see!

For all we know, Paul London could have had become the next Stone Cold Steve Austin, but.. Since he doesn't draw the money someone like Randy Orton does, they won't invest in him enough to mold him into something special.. It's not just about wrestling anymore.. It's about Draw, being reliable, look, gimmick, and enough in-ring ability to pull it all off.. Example: John Cena.. I'm no huge Cena mark, but he's not the worst guy to get a monster push.. Another example, Hulk Hogan? Batista.. Anybody?

So I'll quit my rant that isn't spot on about the original topic, and quit pussyfooting around it.. I think we weren't spoiled before, and not liking what we have now.. It's just the people judging what is going on now because they were the last generation of wrestling fans.. In ten or fifteen years, I'll be in the same position as the people complaining about the Attitude Era needing to come back... I'll be saying things like "Bring back Edge! Randy Orton! Chris Jericho! The company needs them!"

It's just the time.. I love the product and almost everything about it right now.. Those complaining have just become accustomed to something different, and that was their preference.. This is mine.

 

[BIGJUICYNIPPLES]

as a 15 year old, this is a tought subject to me, because i get what Ben-phillips is saying, i first started watching wrestling at about the age of 5 and watched just a bit of WCW but i was poor and live in Croatia so it was hard to even watch considering i didnt understand it lol, but sting realy coaght my attention and when i came to australia i had to watch wrestling i started mainly watching in 2002, when i got cable, i checked to find WCW but it didnt exsist anymore saddly, so i turned to wwe and watched people like SCSA and The Rock, i didnt see much of them and didnt even know the ppv's exsisted, but it was still great looking back at the 1900's to early 2000's i belive there was some great names that stood out like Hogan,Rock,Austin,Taker,HBK,Hart,Sting, (i'm naming the ones i got to see) but i dont belive there were as many talents as there are now, we have people such as:

Edge,Orta,HHH,Y2J,MVP,Hardy's,Swagger,Big show,Punk,Cena,Batista,HBK,Taker,Christian,Booker,Angle,Goldberg,Kennedy and more

And i know i missed out alot of people from both era's but my point is that i dont belive wwe has as (BIG,HUGE,SUPERSTAR) type of names they had in the 90's to early 00's like SCTA,Rock,Hogan,Savage like i dont realy even consider comparing Cena to Rock or Austin because it makes me laught but i still belive there is a heap of great talent in wwe

overall i do belive attitude era was better because first time i got to go on youtube i typed in The Rock and watched 5 hours straight of pure entertainment, i watched all the crazy matches with E,C Hardy's and Duddleys, with nowadays i cant watch 10 minutes of cena and get entertained, tho some of his rapper gimick promo's were great nowadays i dont look forward to watching cena mainevent or tripple h beet another up and comer i watch to see the great new talent, as apposed to before when i just watched to see what Austin would do or what The Rock would say and get up to

if some or most of that didnt make sense then sorry it's 12 here and i have no clue oin what i'm doing

 

[onelonesapper70]

I think we were completely spoiled back then and no, we will never get that magick back. back in the attitude era it we had two major promotions, going head to head every monday and trying to outdo the other. on monday nights you were never really sure what was going to happen. you had wwf/e guys jumpng ship and showing up tp surprise everyone on wcw. you had the womens champion show up on monday nitro and throw the wwf womens championship belt in the trash on live tv. you had ecw guys, wcw guys and wwf guys all trying to outdo each other and that created a spirit of competition that caused excellence and made for excellent television entertainment. seeing the ECw champ show up on monday nitro, seeing the radicalz leave WCW and show up on Raw. D-X invading a WCW show and getting WCW fans to say WCW sucked and D-X ruled proffesional wrestling. the risks were greater back then and as a result the payoffs to the fans were much greater. can the current generation of wrestling fan ever expect anything like that? not without real competition between WWE and another company with the bankroll and talent to go head to head with them again. I am just glad i got to see it back then. of course all of this is just an opinion, my opinion, and i could be wrong.

 

[TheBadGuy]

there's no question about it, the fans of pro wrestling were spoiled beyond belief in the 90's. i think the new "stars of the 90's" dvd does an awesome job reminding the fans of just how good we had it. guys like hennig, hogan, hart, hbk, hhh, flair, the rock, stone cold, hall, nash, foley and taker were all hitting their strides in the 90's. If you think about it, the talent pool was unbelievable during that time period.

 

[JohnnyTheAlphaMale]

This past week, WWE released Greatest Stars of the 90's celebrating the likes of Hogan, Taker, HBK, Stone Cold, The Rock and many more. In the late 90's to the early millenium we had a chance to witness not just the greatest that we will ever see, but to see them go one-on-one. Minus Austin vs. Hogan, there were not a lot of feuds that went unseen. Some flopped. Some exploded. Many of these guys were years in the making and many were break-out. Heck, look at some of the guys that never held world titles for the three major promotions (Razor Ramon, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog, Rick Rude). So a great decade for wrestling.

With so many different factors leading to the IWC's displeasure of today's current product, I ask, were we spoiled by what we witnessed around a decade ago? Are we too busy trying to find the "next HBK" to enjoy today's product? Maybe today's guys don't have the respect, business savvy, or dedication that yesterday's talent had. Maybe it is a combonation of things. But were we spoiled or is there something else wrong?

I know what I think but before I post my thoughts, I am interested in yours. That is why I started looking at these forums; to see others perspecives.

Rude held the WCW International world title and Im reasonably sure that Mr Perfect held the AWA title.

 

[bulldog76]

Rude held the WCW International world title and Im reasonably sure that Mr Perfect held the AWA title.

Okay let me clarify what I meant by the following:
"Heck, look at some of the guys that never held world titles for the three major promotions (Razor Ramon, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog, Rick Rude)." I meant they were never the top champion for WCW, WWF, or ECW. While, AWA's popularity did reach national exposure, but was still primarily a territory (much like WCCW).

The point I was trying to make is these guys were used in the primarily in the mid-card. They weren't headlining the show but they more than pulled their weight.

But thank you for the correction on Rick Rude.

 

[bioshock]

Define spoiled. Because I think most here have it wrong. Spoiled is watching mega stars going at it on weekly shows like we get now, spoiled is getting mega stars going at it every month.

Back in the day when it came to the top 5 guys, you didn't see Warrior & Hogan in the same match to many times, nor Hogan & Savage. Hogan & Andre ect.. Or even HBK Bret for a while.

Late 90s is when we started getting spoiled. Having Hogan vs Rock 2 at No Way Out is spoiling people. That should of happened once, and only once.

Brock vs Hogan on Smackdown, Angle vs Brock 1 hour iron man match on Smackdown, all spoilage.

 

[The Original Beaner]

I think some wrestlers just need to retire just from the in ring stuff itself. The younger guys need their shot but what's stoping them is guys like HHH Steiner and Sting

 

[bulldog76]

Spoiled? Were we given too much of a good thing? Were we fed so much greatness that it will be next to impossible to replicate the quality of entertainment that we enjoyed around 10 years ago? Or was there something else?

Attitude Era- writers (Vince Russo) get way too much credit for this one. What happened when he took it to WCW? It went down the crapper faster than anyone realized. ECW was nothing but "attitude." What happened to it? Yeah, ECW made it work for a while, but eventually lost its fight. WWF made "attitude" work because they had guys who fit "attitude." Right place, right time scenario. (Okay, Im getting tired of the quotes so Im going to inappropriately not use them anymore.) Austin, Triple H, Rock, Mankind, the Outlaws..., fit what they were trying to do. People bought those guys. Undertaker evolved his character into what was going on. It wasn't the edgier storylines that worked, it was the guys telling the story. There were plenty of edgy story lines that failed: Bossman/Big Show/Big Show's Father, necro, HLA..., I don't need to go on.

Exposure- I find it interesting that a lot of people are concerned about the amount of exposure. Is there too much wrestling on TV? There is a lot of talent. Not really anyone that (to me) has that complete package, but guys who can entertain to an extent. So do we take the best of the best or do you let a lot of the guys get on and let the fans decide? I don't believe you take a show off due to people watching which is business but this post isn't business. This post is quality and when throw a bunch of guys out there, some of them aren't that good and that drags down the quality of the show. I didn't think of over-exposure but since it was mentioned, I thought I would respond.

Talent- I don't see an HBK. Im not really looking for one. It seems that today's show is more on the writers than it was 10 years ago. 10 years ago guys made a character and writers gave it direction. Now it seems everyone is made.
People back then kept their mouth shut. Blowing off an agent (as I have read some of the today's talent have done) got you 5-10 minutes with a guy like JBL or Hardcore Holly which meant you got the crap kicked out of you.

While I think today's talent is more athletic, it many times falls short of the overall entertainment value. Im not sure they have the savvy that Hogan, Austin, HHH, Taker, Nash, Flair and they like had. They could feed writers stories and tell them a character they wanted to bring out. They could be jerks and made their share of enemies, but in the end, their company seemed to benefit; whether long or short term.

Today's talent seem to want to go out and just create huge spots. They want to be the next Mick Foley. Tell a story. Connect with the fans. Evolve your character. Seems that people today are one or the other. Not a complete package.

Fans- I don't think the IWC ruins wrestling. It hasn't for me. But I do think we were spoiled. Not completely but we got a taste of something we will not see for a long time. Hogan, Flair, Hart, Sting, Taker..., these guys were over a decade in the making. They used their legacy to bring something to the table. So when they met the likes of HHH, Mankind, Goldberg, Lesnar, and Michaels, they sold. They gave us shows we dreamed of. Some went better than others. I think we got spoiled from that.

Now too many people are looking for "the Next...". Some fans need to accept that there is no "Next...". If they even tried it, chances are it would be seen as a cheap attempt to rip off something great. When will we get legend vs legend? When is the next real dream match? Not sure there are many left. Before, you could spend hours listing them. Here is where I feel we are spoiled.

Plus, I think some fans have gotten too smart for their own good. Rather than enjoying the story, their looking for the direction and get upset when things don't go where they think it should have.

So as for the quality of the shows, I think it is a combonation of things. Not just one. Too many guys getting on that maybe shouldn't, lack of willingness to learn the business and do business, too much emphasis on creative and writing, and the fact that we have been exposed such greatness. It will pick back up, but I doubt it will be in a way we are looking for. People who were subjected to the 90's firsthand may never appreciate it but a new generation may embrace it the way we did the 90's.