I’m glad that Dave did make a post, for a minute there I thought you were going to no-show this debate. But like I have done in the previous debates, and this one will be no different, I’m going to prove my side of the debate to be correct. I do however wish my opponent luck in this debate, because he is going to need it.
I actually thought that you were going first, so last night when there was no reply, I just decided to post. I was going to post yesterday because it was the first opportunity that I had to post in the debate. Nevertheless, we are debating now and I believe that you have made a poor choice in the side you have taken. To say that they will always be the third promotion shows a lack of insight in the potential of ROH and an ignorance on it’s already exponential development and growth.
My first point is something that everyone, or at least most people, need. It’s something that’s essential in starting your own wrestling promotion for example and to keep that promotion alive. That needed item is one that a lot of us possess, and that would be money. Now, before I explain my reasoning for choosing money as one of my points, please let me make it very clear that I am not stating that ROH doesn’t have any money, however I am simply going in a different direction than that and I will explain to the best of my abilities why I chose money to be one of my arguments in this debate.
Straight from the desk of circumlocution.
Like I said, money is something that is indispensable in order to start a wrestling promotion and to keep it alive, in other words, money is absolutely necessary. Now, I did say that I am not saying that ROH doesn’t have money, so hopefully the judges understand what I am saying but just in case, I will try to explain myself well.
Please try because you have not said anything of substance at all.
ROH does have money, they make it in several different ways like selling DVD’s, their house shows, their television tapings, and they used to make money from pay per views and that’s only naming a few ways they made money. However, when you look at the companies that are considered to be the respective number one and two companies in America (WWE and TNA) they are making a lot more money off of those things than ROH which is one of the things that is keeping ROH from moving up in the food chain, the fact that they don’t make as much money as those other two companies.
I’m glad you have proof for that because if you didn’t that would be a pretty silly thing to say, wouldn’t it. You would think it is common knowledge but to be honest, ROH is a stable company that, I assure you, is making a profit as opposed to any kind of loss. TNA may make more money but as long as a company is stable and is making enough money to continue putting it’s product out, what is the big deal about how much it makes? ROH is a developing company whose profits have probably increased with all the expansion they have done into TV markets and PPV’s. Although you would love it to be a factor, money does not mean much in this situation because ROH have enough money to keep on putting the product out. It would be an issue if they could not afford to keep superstars or rent out event locations but that is not a problem.
Ultimately, a company shows its growth via how much money they have acquired over time and while ROH has made some money, it doesn’t compare to what WWE and TNA has made because of various reasons. If a company wants to move up, then one of the things that they should be doing is making more money than the companies above them, which in this case ROH is simply not doing that. So that’s my first reason why ROH is destined to be the number 3 promotion in America, because they aren’t making nearly the amount of money that the companies above them are making.
It’s probably because ROH is a smaller company on a smaller scale to the bigger wrestling companies. Let me get this clear for you, ST. In this debate, we are not talking about why ROH is a smaller company than WWE or TNA, we are talking about the potential that ROH possesses and if that potential could take ROH past TNA into the second spot in the United States pro wrestling scene. You seem convinced that because ROH is not bigger than TNA right now, that it will never get past TNA, which is probably so far from the truth. TNA has exhausted it’s potential and now settles for second spot in pro wrestling instead of trying to develop further.
But that was only my first reasoning, so let’s move on to reason number two which just happens to be demographics. This is another major thing for wrestling companies and it’s what helps them grow and keeps them alive, their fans. Yes, while ROH has their fans, there are many fans that they don’t have because of the reason that I will be explaining in the following paragraph and the other reason which I will explain later on in my post.
Now, admittedly I haven’t seen as much of the ROH product as others on these forums and other fans who aren’t on these forums, however if there’s one thing I have come to realize about their product, it’s that while I do enjoy watching it sometimes it’s not a product that targets the majority of the wrestling watching audience, which isn’t necessarily the most important but they are definitely the ones they should be going after.
What!? Are you trying to convince the judges that ROH is not trying to convince the people who watch bigger promotions like WWE and TNA to watch their promotion? That is absolutely ludicrous, ST. I believe that ROH is trying to that and are becoming more successful in developing the product that goes out in order to lure the people who watch WWE and TNA to their promotion.
If you look at WWE and TNA, they target the majority of wrestling fans and that’s because of one simple reason, that’s the highest amount of fans that there is. There are a lot of fans that WWE and TNA targets that ROH’s product doesn’t because of the way that is designed to be.
I admitted that I do enjoy watching their product sometimes, however I am just one wrestling fans and there are millions of them out there. However, while there are millions, how many ROH fans are there? I can tell you right now that it’s nowhere near the same amount of fans that either WWE or TNA has.
Again, I am glad you have proof that ROH has not attracted anything near the fans that TNA have. I have no idea how many fans of ROH have, nor do I have any idea how many fans TNA has because wrestling fans continually flip-flop around to which ones the follow. In fact, most people watch more than one promotion. Nevertheless, ROH are a smaller promotion and as such, do not have the fanbase of the other promotions. ROH is a company that is growing and growing. With more exposure in the last couple of years and continuing development in terms of exposure, ROH are ensuring that they are levelling the playing field to TNA. ROH fans are growing and again, I believe, they have the potential to be bigger than TNA. TNA just got a bit lucky if you ask me. TNA were the only alternative to WWE at one point and had a better foundation so companies were more open to taking them on. Now companies are seeing that wrestling is a genre that will make money if marketed in the right way. ROH are only now becoming a legitimate company in terms of competition and will continue to grow.
ROH focuses more in the in-ring aspect of wrestling, which is something that doesn’t really entertain the majority of fans. This is proven by the fact that ROH is the number 3 promotion in the world, because of the in-ring product is all what wrestling fans cared about then ROH would be probably by number one or two. Unfortunately for ROH there is more to pro-wrestling than just actual wrestling.
I think that you mean to say that it doesn’t entertain everyone. I’m more than sure that people who are already fans of the promotion are more than thrilled with the level of entertainment that they get from the product.
Some of the things included that ROH hasn’t really showcased much of like WWE and TNA has done, is things like still being entertaining without wrestling. I know that sounds odd and some might not understand but let me explain it with an example. What fans ultimately want, or at least the majority of them, is to be entertained by not only wrestling but by other things such as promos for example. Fans not only want to see their favorite wrestlers wrestle but they actually want to see them be entertaining when they are talking on a microphone. Take DX for example, they can be entertaining when they are wrestling AND when they are doing something else. But when people watch ROH, people don’t feel like they are entertained by everything which is something that is holding ROH back, the fact that their product is a product that the majority of people don’t watch because of the fact that it’s based mostly about the wrestling aspects but people want to be entertain by other things too. ROH won’t be anything more than the second promotion in America because the demographic they target is that of wrestling fans who care more about the wrestling than anything else, and those fans are just in the minority of wrestling fans.
I honestly cannot understand the first sentence. I think what you are trying to say is that Ring of Honour does not give the same entertainment value as promotions such as TNA or WWE. However, saying that fans want to be entertained with promos and then insinuate that ROH does not is completely wrong. ROH promos are as good as any other promotion in the world. For example, watch this promo from Ric Flair in ROH:
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You will notice that that promo is as good as anything else you will see. Ric Flair is one of the best wrestlers ever in terms of in ring work and outside of the work promos. ROH can entertain fans just as much as any other promotion in pro wrestling. Just because ROH runs on the basis of a code of honour and putting more emphasis on the wrestling aspect of the show, it doesn’t mean that they are broing and that promos etc do not exist.
That was my second point and now I will explain my third point which has to do with their marketing and advertising. I may have criticized TNA for having horrible marketing and advertising, but there’s a major difference between TNA’s and ROH’s (I’m not going to get into why WWE’s marketing and advertising beats ROH’s because I think it’s very clear why). That difference is that while TNA doesn’t run many commercials and one of the major things they do is hand out flyers, at least it’s something. ROH basically doesn’t have any advertising/marketing. Never have I seen a ROH commercial or flyer and that’s a big problem because without that type of stuff, then the majority of wrestling fans who have never heard of ROH will never get to watch it and possibly become regular watchers because they’ll never find out about them.
Right now, I agree with you. Ring of Honour does not advertise enough and relies on word of mouth and the internet to advertise it’s product. However, it would not make any sense to advertise strongly. Hear me out here. Ring of Honour are a small promotion and as you said, do not have as much money as the bigger promotions. So tell me, how does it make sense to spent an exurbanite amount of money to advertise events that are basically few and far between. It is OK for TNA because they can advertise their weekly show, or their PPV’s or whatever, they also have the money to do so. Why would ROH do that when they are making enough money from the way their business is run right now. Why take ona risky advertising schedule that may not even pay off or make any difference when they are developing and growing as is?
In summation, I think I have done a good job of explaining why ROH will remain the number 3 promotion in America in this post. Those reasons include, them not making as much money as WWE and TNA, their demographics being the minority in wrestling fans, the way their product is designed to be, and their advertising and marketing being basically non-existent.
No, in summation you have told us why ROH is third promotion and not why you think it will stay that way. What I am trying to say is that ROH has the potential to go one better than TNA and become a very good promotion that could rival the bigger promotions. I summarise that ROH will continue to grow and will eventually become a legitimate contender to the second spot that TNA currently occupies.
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