Week 3: Steamboat Ricky -versus- General Disarray

Mr. TM

Throwing a tantrum
Over time, wrestlers have jumped ship from one promotion to another promotion. Each time the wrestler had a different run in each company. Some have been better, some have been worse. But for those wrestlers who faced a similar push, in which company did they thrive more in?

Did Hulk Hogan thrive more in WCW or WWE?



General Disarray is the home debater, he gets to choose which side of the debate he is on first, but he has 24 hours.

Remember to read the rules. This thread is only for the debaters.
 
First of all, I know there was some confusion last round, so let's clear up what this debate is really about. Did Hulk Hogan thrive more in the WWF/E or WCW? Well according to dictionary.com the definition of thrive is "to prosper; be fortunate or successful."

Now that we have that cleared up, I am going to show you why Hulk Hogan thrived in the WWF/E than in WCW.

Hogan's Title Reigns

As we have just learned, this debate is mainly about success. There are many ways to define success, but the best way to do it in the professional wrestling world is by looking as title reigns. In terms of number of world title reigns, Hogan had 6 as both the WWF Champion and the WCW Champion. However, if we look a little deeper into the numbers, we find that Hogan was much more successful in the WWF than he was in WCW. He held the WWF total for a total of 2,185 days with his longest title reign lasting for 1,474 days. Both of those are second only to the great Bruno Sammartino. Hogan only held the WCW World Title for 1,177 days with his longest reign being 469 days. Both of those numbers are significantly lower than his WWF numbers.

Hogan's Popularity

Another aspect of thriving in wrestling is popularity, both with hardcore wrestling fans and with the mainstream, casual fan. Upon his arrival in the WWF Hogan was quickly pushed to the top of the world. He handled this exceptionally, not only becoming the face of the WWF, but as the face of wrestling as a whole. The Hulkamania era was the defining time period for professional wrestling. Wrestling's popularity was at its peak and it was all thanks to Hogan. Not only was Hogan a star in the wrestling world, he was also a star on MTV. He was featured on the cover of Sports Illustrated and People Magazine. Hogan even had his own saturday morning cartoon show. That is impressive for any celebrity, much less a pro wrestler. And of course, all of this happened while he was in the WWF.

Better Quality

Overall, Hogan was simply better in the WWF than he was in WCW, when looking at both feuds and matches. His best feuds came while he was in the WWF, maily against the likes of Savage, Slaughter, Piper, and Orndoff. He also had all of his most iconic and memorable matches in the WWF. Andre at Wrestlemania, Warrior at Wrestlemania, the Mega Powers v. the Mega Bucks at Summerslam. All of Hogan's biggest and best matches came while he was in the WWF. As a part of WCW, Hogan is better known for winning thanks to lay downs.

Hogan's Return

After a period of time in WCW, Hogan returned to the company where his star shone the brightest, the WWF. Upon his return, he compete in what may be the greatest and most memorable match of his career against The Rock at Wrestlemania 18. Despite being a heel in this match, the crowd was completely behind Hogan. It was one of the greatest wrestling moments of all time. Despite coming out the loser, Hogan had shown that he was not done as a pro wrestler and that his career had been reinvented in the WWF. Despiting being nearly 50 years old, Hogan won his 6th and final WWF Title against Triple H in 2002.

In summation, every aspect of Hogan's career was bigger and better in the WWF. He held the title longer, made more of an impact, was more popular, and was an overall better wrestler in the WWF.
 
Sorry again for my "lack of promptness." Just give the point to GD. In fact, just give all future "punctuality" points to my opponent. I'm never going to be early enough to win points on promptness.

To preface, I have been in the midst of a move/I've had the daunting task of trying to formulate an argument for why the greatest wrestler of all-time thrived more in one company more than the other. The fact is, I REALLY don't think that you can say that he thrived in one federation more than the other without being at fault. Hogan's tenure in WWE set up his run in WCW...and his success in WCW allowed for his on and off again stints back in WWE. So, they are all very inter-connected. However, I am going to bring up reasons why Hogan thrived in WCW...not that I think that it's necessarily a more profitable situation...but I will bring light to several points that I think make Hogan's time in WCW a step ahead (in terms of personal thrive) of his WWE tenure. It will be outlined as follows:

1) Without his tenure in WCW...Hogan would not be considered the greatest of all-time. In fact, his career would mirror that of The Rock. The Rock had an epic run where he was the top man in the industry for a few years...then he went to Hollywood to make a lot more money than he made in wrestling/have a much lighter schedule. Hogan did the same. He was able to take his wrestling success in WWE and turn it into Hollywood success. But in terms of wrestling success, he needed his WCW time in order to make himself be solidified as a "wrestling" guy. He was able to be the top heel in the business after being the greatest babyface the world has ever seen. No one else can claim that.

2) Never before have I seen anyone in wrestling have trash thrown at them...much less to this degree.

[youtube]H76DwHgOwpA[/youtube]

This just provides some visual to support the point I made in #1. Hogan broke people's hearts. And thus...they are going to remember him for it.

3) Hogan made a TON OF GUARANTEED MONEY in WCW. Hogan's deal with WCW changed the face of wrestling contracts up through the present. Hogan could have pretty much refused to work if he wanted to because all of the exorbitant amount of money that was guaranteed to him when he signed to WCW back in 1994.

4) Hogan was THE MAN in WCW. He had creative control. Because of the money that he was making and the control he had over his character, Hogan could do whatever he wanted to do. In WWE, he didn't have that luxury...he still had to answer to Vince McMahon. Let's take Wrestlemania VI for example. Hogan thought it was a stupid idea to put the belt on the Ultimate Warrior. Do you think he would have agreed to do the job to Warrior if he had creative control in his contract/was getting all of his money guaranteed? No. How can you be certain, you ask? Look at the scenario with Sting at Starrcade 97. The buildup was massive for this, and Hogan, at the last minute, changed the ending to make himself look better. He could wield that kind of power in WCW...not WWE. And thus, his WCW career is even more of a Hogan thrive-fest.


5) Hogan single-handedly made WCW competitive with WWE.
Some say that he single-handedly projected them to the front of the ratings war, but I don't buy that. However, look at WCW's legitimacy prior to his arrival in 1994. It was pretty sub-par. But once Hogan signed and faced Flair at Bash at the Beach 1994, WCW became instant players. There would definitely have not been a Monday Nitro without Hogan, and the ratings war that changed wrestling forever would be just a fantasy in the minds of geeks worldwide (there probably wouldn't have even been an IWC, to be honest). In WWE, there were other stars around him that were of higher caliber, and thus, it could be argued that it stole some of the spotlight away from Hogan. In WCW, though. Hogan was undisputedly THE MAN (until Goldberg of course :p).

Those are but 5 very strong arguments that convincingly suggest that Hogan thrived more in WCW than in WWE. However, like I said earlier...we are still talking about one of the greatest of all-time without his tenure in WCW. But knowing Hogan like I know of him, he wouldn't be satisfied being the Rock...when he could be Stone Cold Steve Austin...when he could be even greater than that...the greatest of all-time.
 
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The fact is, I REALLY don't think that you can say that he thrived in one federation more than the other without being at fault. Hogan's tenure in WWE set up his run in WCW...and his success in WCW allowed for his on and off again stints back in WWE. So, they are all very inter-connected. However, I am going to bring up reasons why Hogan thrived in WCW...not that I think that it's necessarily a more profitable situation...but I will bring light to several points that I think make Hogan's time in WCW a step ahead (in terms of personal thrive) of his WWE tenure. It will be outlined as follows:

I disagree, Hogan cleary was at his best in the WWF and it is certainly where he thrived more.


1) Without his tenure in WCW...Hogan would not be considered the greatest of all-time. In fact, his career would mirror that of The Rock. The Rock had an epic run where he was the top man in the industry for a few years...then he went to Hollywood to make a lot more money than he made in wrestling/have a much lighter schedule. Hogan did the same. He was able to take his wrestling success in WWE and turn it into Hollywood success. But in terms of wrestling success, he needed his WCW time in order to make himself be solidified as a "wrestling" guy. He was able to be the top heel in the business after being the greatest babyface the world has ever seen. No one else can claim that.


I don't think he necessarily needed WCW for all of that. Hogan already the biggest star ever when he was in the WWF. You can't comare him to The Rock, did the Rock ever hold the title for 4 years straight? Did he ever change the entire landscape of pro wrestling? Hogan did all of those things in the WWF, anytime spent in WCW was just icing on the cake. He didn't NEED WCW in order to solidify himself as a "wrestling guy", he had already proven himself.

2) Never before have I seen anyone in wrestling have trash thrown at them...much less to this degree.

[youtube]H76DwHgOwpA[/youtube]

This just provides some visual to support the point I made in #1. Hogan broke people's hearts. And thus...they are going to remember him for it.

That doesn't really show how he "thrived." Besides, fans would never have had a reason to throw garbage at him if it wasn't for everything he had done in the WWF previously.

3) Hogan made a TON OF GUARANTEED MONEY in WCW. Hogan's deal with WCW changed the face of wrestling contracts up through the present. Hogan could have pretty much refused to work if he wanted to because all of the exorbitant amount of money that was guaranteed to him when he signed to WCW back in 1994.

I can't argue with you on this. I'm unable to find any exact figures, but it only makes sense that he would have made more in WCW. However, I still contend that his wrestling career thrived more in the WWF.

4) Hogan was THE MAN in WCW. He had creative control. Because of the money that he was making and the control he had over his character, Hogan could do whatever he wanted to do. In WWE, he didn't have that luxury...he still had to answer to Vince McMahon. Let's take Wrestlemania VI for example. Hogan thought it was a stupid idea to put the belt on the Ultimate Warrior. Do you think he would have agreed to do the job to Warrior if he had creative control in his contract/was getting all of his money guaranteed? No. How can you be certain, you ask? Look at the scenario with Sting at Starrcade 97. The buildup was massive for this, and Hogan, at the last minute, changed the ending to make himself look better. He could wield that kind of power in WCW...not WWE. And thus, his WCW career is even more of a Hogan thrive-fest.

He may have had creative control in WCW, but I'm sure he still had a say in things in WWF. It's not like he didn't have any pull in the company and couldn't tell Vince what he wanted. Sure he didn't make the final decision, but he still had a part in things. Even if he had complete creative control, Hogan still was more successful in WWF then in WCW. The numbers even back it up. Anyway, all of his creative control and lay-down victories ultimately hurt the way people saw him, and got him fired, whether it was legit or in kayfabe, from the company.


5) Hogan single-handedly made WCW competitive with WWE. Some say that he single-handedly projected them to the front of the ratings war, but I don't buy that. However, look at WCW's legitimacy prior to his arrival in 1994. It was pretty sub-par. But once Hogan signed and faced Flair at Bash at the Beach 1994, WCW became instant players. There would definitely have not been a Monday Nitro without Hogan, and the ratings war that changed wrestling forever would be just a fantasy in the minds of geeks worldwide (there probably wouldn't have even been an IWC, to be honest). In WWE, there were other stars around him that were of higher caliber, and thus, it could be argued that it stole some of the spotlight away from Hogan. In WCW, though. Hogan was undisputedly THE MAN (until Goldberg of course :p).

Hogan did go a very long way in making WCW competitive with the WWF, but I would argue that the WWF would've never gained it's popularity without Hogan. They gave Hogan the role as the face of the company almost from day one, and he was able to make it the biggest and most successful wrestling company of all time. Sure there were a few other in WWF at the time, but someone like's Savage can't be compared to Hogan in popularity of effect they had on the business. Without Hogan's contributions in the WWF first, there would be no other company for WCW to compete with.

Those are but 5 very strong arguments that convincingly suggest that Hogan thrived more in WCW than in WWE. However, like I said earlier...we are still talking about one of the greatest of all-time without his tenure in WCW. But knowing Hogan like I know of him, he wouldn't be satisfied being the Rock...when he could be Stone Cold Steve Austin...when he could be even greater than that...the greatest of all-time.

Completely agree, Hogan is undoubtably the best of all time, mostly thanks to his WWF run though:).

In closing, I have to say it is clear than Hogan thrived more in the WWF than in WCW. The numbers back it up, he held the world title for nearly twice as long in the WWF with his longest reign lasting more than 3 times longer than his longest in WCW. His popularity during Hulkamania, the biggest wrestling movement ever, was much greater than it was as Hollywood Hogan, where he was part of a group and not the sole focus. Hogan was overall a better wrestler and performer in the WWF as he was in his physical prime. Furthermore, he was even able to make a huge return at the age of 50 and become the WWE Champion once again. Hulk Hogan had a great career, but he was at his best in the WWF.
 
I disagree, Hogan cleary was at his best in the WWF and it is certainly where he thrived more.


He had the company wrapped around his finger in WCW. In WWF, Vince was ultimately always the man.


I don't think he necessarily needed WCW for all of that. Hogan already the biggest star ever when he was in the WWF. You can't comare him to The Rock, did the Rock ever hold the title for 4 years straight?

In all fairness, The Rock held the championship in a much different era than when Hogan and Sammartino were WWF champs. They aren't even comparable. The TV demands were not as high in those former eras, and the supercards were fewer and farther between.

Did he ever change the entire landscape of pro wrestling?

Arguably, he did. He's the best mic guy the industry has probably ever seen. I'd say his catchphrases and involve the crowd in his saying of these phrases was pretty revolutionary.

Hogan did all of those things in the WWF, anytime spent in WCW was just icing on the cake. He didn't NEED WCW in order to solidify himself as a "wrestling guy", he had already proven himself.

False. People would be looking at Hogan say..."oh that's that guy who used to wrestle and now does movies." That's how people look at The Rock. Hogan left the movies to come back to wrestling...showing to everyone that wrestling IS Hogan's real love (the money didn't hurt either). And thus...he thrived.

That doesn't really show how he "thrived." Besides, fans would never have had a reason to throw garbage at him if it wasn't for everything he had done in the WWF previously.

How on EARTH not? Hogan was playing the heel character. When people throw trash at you...that means you are hated. When you are a heel and you are hated...that means you are successful. Being successful is synonymous with thriving.

I can't argue with you on this. I'm unable to find any exact figures, but it only makes sense that he would have made more in WCW. However, I still contend that his wrestling career thrived more in the WWF.

Blindly it seems. This business is measured in attendance, ratings, and money earned. Nobody made more money than Hogan. And no one paid Hogan more than Ted Turner.


He may have had creative control in WCW, but I'm sure he still had a say in things in WWF. It's not like he didn't have any pull in the company and couldn't tell Vince what he wanted. Sure he didn't make the final decision, but he still had a part in things.

So, admittedly, he thrived less in WWF than in WCW? Apparently you are conceding this point. Kevin Nash complained that when he was booking, Hogan would show up 30 minutes before air-time and disagree with the booking, thus, forcing them to change it all up. How is that not personal thriving at its best? The man was GIVEN everything.a


Even if he had complete creative control, Hogan still was more successful in WWF then in WCW. The numbers even back it up.

Which numbers are those? Surely not the numbers that suggest that Hogan made more money in WCW than in WWF...or equal number of title reigns in each company...or the fact that Hogan was a major catalyst in beating WWF in the ratings war for a substantial period of time.

Anyway, all of his creative control and lay-down victories ultimately hurt the way people saw him, and got him fired, whether it was legit or in kayfabe, from the company.

Is that why when he came back to WWF in 02 as a heel that people were cheering him over the babyface? Hogan was a smart guy and he knows the business arguably better than anyone. He took all that he could get and ran with it...because they offered it up to him. He was able to command that kind of power. Sounds like thriving to me...especially since he still would have gotten all the money he was owed even if the firing was legit.



Hogan did go a very long way in making WCW competitive with the WWF, but I would argue that the WWF would've never gained it's popularity without Hogan. They gave Hogan the role as the face of the company almost from day one, and he was able to make it the biggest and most successful wrestling company of all time. Sure there were a few other in WWF at the time, but someone like's Savage can't be compared to Hogan in popularity of effect they had on the business. Without Hogan's contributions in the WWF first, there would be no other company for WCW to compete with.

There's no question that the WWF wouldn't be what it was without Hogan. But this debate is about Hogan's THRIVING. Not how much each company thrived while he was there.


In closing, I have to say it is clear than Hogan thrived more in the WWF than in WCW. The numbers back it up, he held the world title for nearly twice as long in the WWF with his longest reign lasting more than 3 times longer than his longest in WCW. His popularity during Hulkamania, the biggest wrestling movement ever, was much greater than it was as Hollywood Hogan, where he was part of a group and not the sole focus. Hogan was overall a better wrestler and performer in the WWF as he was in his physical prime. Furthermore, he was even able to make a huge return at the age of 50 and become the WWE Champion once again. Hulk Hogan had a great career, but he was at his best in the WWF.

They brought Hogan back to do the nWo bit. Thus, it was his success in WCW that was the catalyst of this return. However, the $ doesn't lie. The ratings don't lie. The power....it doesn't lie. Hogan's WCW career was vastly more profitable.
 
Hogan's Title Reigns

As we have just learned, this debate is mainly about success. There are many ways to define success, but the best way to do it in the professional wrestling world is by looking as title reigns. In terms of number of world title reigns, Hogan had 6 as both the WWF Champion and the WCW Champion. However, if we look a little deeper into the numbers, we find that Hogan was much more successful in the WWF than he was in WCW. He held the WWF total for a total of 2,185 days with his longest title reign lasting for 1,474 days. Both of those are second only to the great Bruno Sammartino. Hogan only held the WCW World Title for 1,177 days with his longest reign being 469 days. Both of those numbers are significantly lower than his WWF numbers.

Hogan's title reign lengths are once again from two different eras. Hogan was holding the title longer than most people held them in WCW at the time...so you have to look at things relatively. Yes, Hogan had a 1,400 day title reign. But all of the rest were very average or below the average of other reigns around his.

Hogan's second WWF title reign: 364 days...Savage had just had a 371 day reign.

Third reign: 248 days. Two reigns prior...Ultimate Warrior held the belt for 293 days.

His fourth reign: 1 day. This was after The Undertaker had a 6 day reign.

His fifth reign: 70 days. Prior to losing the belt to Yokozuna at Mania IX...Bret Hart held the title for 170 days. After beating Hogan for the title at King of the Ring...Yokozuna held the belt for 280 days.

Thus, Hogan's length of reigns were average or sub-par after his big 1,400 day reign.


>>>In WCW, however...Hogan was putting up above average reigns in terms of length.

His first reign...469 days. Prior to that....Ric Flair held the title for 87 days, and after defeating Hogan for the title, The Giant held the title for 8 days.

Hogan's second reign: 359 days. Sandwiched between The Giant (110 days) and Lex Luger (5 days).

Third reign: 141 days. Sandwiched between Luger (5 days) and Sting (11 days).

Fourth reign: 77 days. Sandwiched between Savage (1 day) and Goldberg (174 days).

Fifth reign: 69 days. Sandwiched between Nash (8 days) and Ric Flair (28 days).

Sixth reign: 62 days. Sandwiched between Savage (1 day) and Sting (43 days).


Thus, Hogan's title reigns in WCW were far more above average than Hogan's below-average title reigns in terms of length in the WWF when compared to relative title reigns.

Hogan's Popularity

Another aspect of thriving in wrestling is popularity, both with hardcore wrestling fans and with the mainstream, casual fan. Upon his arrival in the WWF Hogan was quickly pushed to the top of the world. He handled this exceptionally, not only becoming the face of the WWF, but as the face of wrestling as a whole. The Hulkamania era was the defining time period for professional wrestling. Wrestling's popularity was at its peak and it was all thanks to Hogan. Not only was Hogan a star in the wrestling world, he was also a star on MTV. He was featured on the cover of Sports Illustrated and People Magazine. Hogan even had his own saturday morning cartoon show. That is impressive for any celebrity, much less a pro wrestler. And of course, all of this happened while he was in the WWF.

And what kind of moolah was Hogan seeing from all of that? Oh, a pretty good amount I suppose. But how much money was Hogan making in WCW? A CRAPLOAD. And he was working a pretty light schedule...and he was still making movies. So...I'm going to say that his "thriving" in the WWF couldn't hold a candle to Hogan's personal thriving in WCW.



Better Quality

Overall, Hogan was simply better in the WWF than he was in WCW, when looking at both feuds and matches. His best feuds came while he was in the WWF, maily against the likes of Savage, Slaughter, Piper, and Orndoff. He also had all of his most iconic and memorable matches in the WWF. Andre at Wrestlemania, Warrior at Wrestlemania, the Mega Powers v. the Mega Bucks at Summerslam. All of Hogan's biggest and best matches came while he was in the WWF. As a part of WCW, Hogan is better known for winning thanks to lay downs.

This is extremely relative. Hogan's presence in the nWo was instrumental in WCW taking control of the ratings war, and he was part of WCW's biggest merch line of all-time...nWo t-shirts. The reason that his matches are more "iconic" and "memorable" in WWE is because WWE spends like half a year promoting Wrestlemania. How often does WWE spend time promoting non-existent Bash at the Beach or Halloween Havoc events? Oh that's right...zero time. It's because WWE owns the footage...they do what they want with it. It makes more sense to push WWE than to push a dead WCW.

Hogan's Return

After a period of time in WCW, Hogan returned to the company where his star shone the brightest, the WWF. Upon his return, he compete in what may be the greatest and most memorable match of his career against The Rock at Wrestlemania 18. Despite being a heel in this match, the crowd was completely behind Hogan. It was one of the greatest wrestling moments of all time. Despite coming out the loser, Hogan had shown that he was not done as a pro wrestler and that his career had been reinvented in the WWF. Despiting being nearly 50 years old, Hogan won his 6th and final WWF Title against Triple H in 2002.

What Hogan did during his return was phenomenal, but so much of it was because of his WCW successes. He was brought in to do the nWo angle...and it just evolved from there. In the end, he still wasn't going to be getting the kind of money that he amassed in WCW and didn't have the personal control that he wielded...thus he thrived less.

In summation, every aspect of Hogan's career was bigger and better in the WWF. He held the title longer, made more of an impact, was more popular, and was an overall better wrestler in the WWF.

In summation...no...he thrived more in WCW because of all the things I said.
 
Clarity Of Argument: Both of you had a very nice layout. Steamboat Ricky, you were clever in some instances with how you worked on the meaning of "thrived," but, in other instances, you had me scratching my head. GD, your argument was decisive and had great direction.

Point: GD

Punctuality: You want me to give the point to GD, Steamboat Ricky? OK.

Point: GD

Informative: You had a perfect mix of argument and information here, GD. No fact that you listed was unused (or misused) for why Hogan should be thought of as having thrived more in the WWF.

Point: GD

Emotionality: Steamboat Ricky, you went on the offensive in this debate, and that was awesome. You choice of words was awesome as well.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Persuasion: Ultimately, I was won over by what you had to say, Steamboat Ricky. Your posts convinced me that Hogan needed the extra bump that WCW gave him to solidify his status as the greatest of all time. And, while this bump may have not been that big, it was, in the end, invaluable.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

tdigle's Score
GD: 3
Steamboat Ricky: 2
 
Clarity Of Argument: Both of you have been professional in organizing your debates. You both did great, and like I said, the judges love to read a well written debate. I am giving this point to GD for his very, very neat layout.


Punctuality: I have to give this point to GD as well. Hopefully Ricky gets the move settled.


Informative: You both had some great information, and brought in huge points to help your direct narrowed arguments that were able to battle heads. I really liked the comparison in title reigns that Ricky brought in, thus I give him this point for his creativity.


Emotionality: Very different techniques here, GD has an almost Sly like approach in his arguments, waiting for you to get tripped up. It usually works well against an all out attack, but Ricky took all his steps wisely, and thus gets this point.

Persuasion: The Golden Era. Probably the most admired time in Professional Wrestling. How can this not be his golden time? Well, his NWO changed professional wrestling greatly. When I came in however, I was looking at his WWE years as key. But Ricky persuaded me with some unique arguments, that probably could have been debated that his NWO years were better. Ricky gets this point.


TM rates this Ricky 3, GD 2.
 
Clarity: Both had very clear and understandable posts, nothing difficult to understand about each point.

Point: Split

Punctuality: Ricky was late, GD gets the point.

Point: General Disarray

Informative: Both used some very good information. Like TM, the title comparisons is getting Ricky this point.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Emotionality: See what TM and Tdigs said as it pretty much sums up what I think.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Persuasion: Like TM said, who would ever doubt the Golden Era as Hogan at his absolute best to thrive? I sure as hell didn't coming into this. But Ricky brought up some fantastic points on how his career in WCW helped him thrive not only in the ring or backstage, but also helped his future when Vince brought back the nWo in 2002.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

CH David scores this Steamboat Ricky 3.5, General Disarray 1.5.
 
Clarity: You both had posts that were incredibly easy to read, and well set out you have my gratitude, it's hard work and I want to get pissed. Still, I am gonna give the point to GD, like his name, simple and to the point.

Point: General Disarray

Punctuality: On the mods advice GD gets the point here

Point: General Disarray

Informative: Like what CH Davids said

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Emotionality: Tdiggletts got this one covered

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Persuasion: Dont really want to choose between the two, after all, as GD said, Hogan was the man in the golden era, and as Ricky said, Hogan was the man in WCW. Still, GD's points about Hogan's success outside of wrestling during his WWF run got me, not only was he the man in the ring, he was the man everywhere else as well.

Point: General Disarray

Lord Miko Hayes scores this round
Steamboat Ricky - 2
General Disarray - 3
 
Clarity: All posts were easy to read but like Miko said GD's were simple and to the point

Point: General Disarray

Punctuality: GD gets the point

Point: General Disarray

Informative: I also agree with David

Point: Steamboat Ricky

Emotionality: Tdigle did a very good job at covering this one.
Point: Steamboat Ricky

Persuasion: GD had a well written post and he talked about Hogans success in and out of the ring. That was the winning part for me. Both did good, but believes GD did a little more.

Point: General Disarray

Becker scores this round
Steamboat Ricky - 2
General Disarray - 3
 
Clarity Of Argument: Both of you had a very nice layout. Steamboat Ricky, you were clever in some instances with how you worked on the meaning of "thrived," but, in other instances, you had me scratching my head. GD, your argument was decisive and had great direction.

Point: GD

Punctuality: You want me to give the point to GD, Steamboat Ricky? OK.

Point: GD

Informative: You had a perfect mix of argument and information here, GD. No fact that you listed was unused (or misused) for why Hogan should be thought of as having thrived more in the WWF.

Point: GD

Emotionality: Steamboat Ricky, you went on the offensive in this debate, and that was awesome. You choice of words was awesome as well.

Point: GD*

Persuasion: Ultimately, I was won over by what you had to say, Steamboat Ricky. Your posts convinced me that Hogan needed the extra bump that WCW gave him to solidify his status as the greatest of all time. And, while this bump may have not been that big, it was, in the end, invaluable.

Point: Steamboat Ricky

tdigle's Score
GD: 3
Steamboat Ricky: 2

*Steamboat Ricky's whining about my scoring offsets what earned him the point for emotionality. GD gets the point by default.

tdigle's Amended Score

GD: 4
Steamboat Ricky: 1
 

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