Week 3 - NSL vs. TSG

[FromTheSouth]

This thread is for the debaters only. This thread will be open until Sunday at 6 PM CST.

NSL will be affirming the topic.

Resolved: Current obscenity laws violate the first amendment.

 

[NSL]

The First Amendment is in place to give American citizens the very basic of rights...No, not rights, freedoms. The current laws not only violate these freedoms, but spit in their face.

As Americans, we are given the right to say, and read, what we want. By censoring and editing everything from music videos to Presidential speeches, we're only given the information "they" want us to have. We're no longer allowed to say what we want, out of fear of fines and imprisonment.

The laws also take away our rights as parents. Parents used to have the freedom to pick and choose what their children had access to, and now they're told what their children can and cannot do. Instead of letting the person who knows the child best decide what's right, the laws make everything uniform.

Uniformity was not what was intended with the First Amendment. We were meant to be able to say and do what we want, and that's why we fought for our freedom. If we're going to allow laws violate the First Amendment freedoms, why did we fight the war so many years ago, and why do we still fight for our freedoms?

 

[TSG]

The First Amendment is in place to give American citizens the very basic of rights...No, not rights, freedoms. The current laws not only violate these freedoms, but spit in their face.

Yes, the First Amendment does give us very basic rights and freedoms, but keep in mind that those rights and freedoms have limits on them. You cna't go out and spread false information about someone without solid proof. I can't go out and say Barack Obama is a communist secretly plotting to organize a hostile takeover and become dictator of the world. There are laws against these things, and I could very well be sued for spreading gossip like that through public. We do have basic rights and freedoms such as freedom of speech and press, but they are limited.

As Americans, we are given the right to say, and read, what we want. By censoring and editing everything from music videos to Presidential speeches, we're only given the information "they" want us to have. We're no longer allowed to say what we want, out of fear of fines and imprisonment.

Once again, we are giving the right to say and read what we want, but their are limits on those rights. You say we're only giving the information "they want us to have? Maybe that is because "they" don't want us to recieve the rest of the information becaus it is just false, harmful, and malicious gossip and lies. There are limits on our rights, NSL, and the government can exercise those limits how they see fit. If they didn't, half America would run around causing anarchy with false information.

The laws also take away our rights as parents. Parents used to have the freedom to pick and choose what their children had access to, and now they're told what their children can and cannot do. Instead of letting the person who knows the child best decide what's right, the laws make everything uniform.

Since when are people told what and what not their children can do? Have you ever heard of parental controls on television? The allow parents to have the freedom to pick and choose what their children had access to. Does that statement sound familiar. Thought so. If a parent (and I am not saying they would, I am just using this as an example) wants to let their child view a movie such as Cannibal Halocaust or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, they have the power to buy that movie and let their children view it. People might not agree with that style of parenting, but the parent is still allow them to do it. You are completely wrong here, NSL. Parents have control over what their cildren watch and do, not anybody else.

Uniformity was not what was intended with the First Amendment. We were meant to be able to say and do what we want, and that's why we fought for our freedom. If we're going to allow laws violate the First Amendment freedoms, why did we fight the war so many years ago, and why do we still fight for our freedoms?

We still have the power to do and say what we want, we still have our freedom. It's all around. There are just limits on it, as there should be. But we still have our freedom.

 

[NSL]

I can't go out and say Barack Obama is a communist secretly plotting to organize a hostile takeover and become dictator of the world.

Yes...You can...That's the beauty of the First Amendment. One of the big reasons the Revolutionary War was fought, was because of the limits the British put on the colonists. They couldn't speak their mind on anything, and they wanted that changed. So, we got the Freedom of Speech.

Whether you're a celebrity, an everyman, or a politician, you can say whatever you want, about anyone you want. If you weren't allowed, would we have all the political cartoons we have now?

Take a look at these:

http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/

Do you think if you lived in North Korea, that picture, and that website, could be made about Kim Jong Il?

I don't see why defaming the President would be allowed, but laws need to be made, stopping someone from speaking their mind about anyone else, or printing what they want about anyone else.

 

[TSG]

Yes...You can...That's the beauty of the First Amendment. One of the big reasons the Revolutionary War was fought, was because of the limits the British put on the colonists. They couldn't speak their mind on anything, and they wanted that changed. So, we got the Freedom of Speech.

Whether you're a celebrity, an everyman, or a politician, you can say whatever you want, about anyone you want. If you weren't allowed, would we have all the political cartoons we have now?

Take a look at these:

http://obamaisliterallyhitler.tumblr.com/

Do you think if you lived in North Korea, that picture, and that website, could be made about Kim Jong Il?

You argue a good point here, but I could just as well be sued spreading information and gossip about someone without solid facts to back it up. Spreading false information can get you in trouble, it may not, but it can.

I don't see why defaming the President would be allowed, but laws need to be made, stopping someone from speaking their mind about anyone else, or printing what they want about anyone else.

I might be misunderstanding you here, but did you just say laws do need to be made stopping people from speaking there mind or printing whatever they want about someone else. If that is what you said, then you just defeated the purpose of your entire arguement.

 

[NSL]

I might be misunderstanding you here, but did you just say laws do need to be made stopping people from speaking there mind or printing whatever they want about someone else. If that is what you said, then you just defeated the purpose of your entire arguement.

You misunderstood it.

I was saying that if we can defame the President like that, why would we need laws limiting our freedoms elsewhere? If anyone would be "above the law", it would be the President, no?

I may have worded my statement wrong, and I apologize...

 

[TSG]

You misunderstood it.

I was saying that if we can defame the President like that, why would we need laws limiting our freedoms elsewhere? If anyone would be "above the law", it would be the President, no?

I may have worded my statement wrong, and I apologize...

We need laws limiting our freedoms because people our stupid. They are dumb enough to go out and make stupid remarks and spread false information. Stuff like that can get a person fired from a job, cost them friends and family, and sometimes ruin their lives. I once was mad at a kid and made crude remarks about his mother and said he was gay with another kid at our school. I got in major trouble. There was ni knowledge or truth in my words, and they upset him. He tried to fight me. There needs to be a limit on things we do and say. People fought and died for the rights and freedoms we have, there needs to be limits on them so people don't act stupid, abuse those basic rights we have, and hurt, upset, or mess up other's lives.

 

[NSL]

We need laws limiting our freedoms because people our stupid.

Trying to prove your point?

They are dumb enough to go out and make stupid remarks and spread false information.

This may be true, but there are no laws against stupidity. There's actually people that make quite the living off of spreading false information. TMZ, Perez Hilton, The Enquirer, The Globe, and so on, are all extremely popular because of the growth of false/twisted facts being so popular.

It may not be "right", but it's still legal, and it's their right to do that.

Stuff like that can get a person fired from a job, cost them friends and family, and sometimes ruin their lives. I once was mad at a kid and made crude remarks about his mother and said he was gay with another kid at our school. I got in major trouble. There was ni knowledge or truth in my words, and they upset him. He tried to fight me.

Whether what you said was right or wrong, it was still your right to say what you wanted. If there was a law preventing that, you or your parents would have faced serious legal action.

There needs to be a limit on things we do and say. People fought and died for the rights and freedoms we have, there needs to be limits on them so people don't act stupid, abuse those basic rights we have, and hurt, upset, or mess up other's lives.

There are limits though. They're called common sense. If you feel that what you are about to say is wrong, or not true, then you should think before saying it. If you choose to say it, it's your right, and you get to live with the consequences of your actions.

 

[TSG]

Trying to prove your point?

I hate typos.

This may be true, but there are no laws against stupidity. There's actually people that make quite the living off of spreading false information. TMZ, Perez Hilton, The Enquirer, The Globe, and so on, are all extremely popular because of the growth of false/twisted facts being so popular.

It may not be "right", but it's still legal, and it's their right to do that.

Yes, it is thier legal right to say that, but if someone decides that it effects them enough, they could just as easily turn around and sue someone for saying those things, and win when the person spreading false information didn't have solid facts to back up the gossip that they spread.

Whether what you said was right or wrong, it was still your right to say what you wanted. If there was a law preventing that, you or your parents would have faced serious legal action.

It was in the school. There was a law preventing that, it was call school rules. I had no right to say it, but I said it anyway (out of stupidity I have since realized and grown out of) and I got in serious trouble. There are rules and laws that put limits on what you can and cannot say. You still have your basic First Amendment rights, but they are limited for a good sake.

There are limits though. They're called common sense. If you feel that what you are about to say is wrong, or not true, then you should think before saying it. If you choose to say it, it's your right, and you get to live with the consequences of your actions.

There are limits called laws, rules, and regulation, as I mentioned above.

 

[NSL]

Yes, it is thier legal right to say that, but if someone decides that it effects them enough, they could just as easily turn around and sue someone for saying those things, and win when the person spreading false information didn't have solid facts to back up the gossip that they spread.

Saying what you want is the freedom that is afforded to you. If you're going to defame someone, or run their name through the mud, then it is their right to take the right course of action. Being sued for defaming someone does not take away your right to say what you want.

There's been more than a few occasions where a site like TMZ or a company like Red Light District has been sued, and had to take down whatever they had posted.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Well, let's reread the topic. Current obscenity laws violate the first amendment. The topic was set up that way because it's an impossible task to argue that there should be no limits on free speech. Perjury is a limit on freedom of speech, slander and libel laws are limits, and they are there to protect a just society.

This is what Sign Guy was saying. Unfortunately, that's not what the topic was. Unfortunately for NSL, he let it go that way, to his detriment.

TSG wins.

Off topic, so the points are lowered


TSG get 30
NSL 26

 

[gd]

TSG wins this one, which was just about freedom of speech, which it seems all of these debates are about. Read the questions.

TSG - 32
NSL - 25

 

[Mr. TM]

Strange debate here boys, you sure took this one for a ride. I have that Obama picture above my couch if you wanted to know.

Signy 27
NSL 20