Week 1: ztwhite -versus- Steven
- Thread starter Mr. TM
- Start date
Cool - I can easily argue the other side.
You also have to decide if you're going to post the first argument or if you want me to post first.
If you're going first, just let it fly. If you want me to go first, shoot me a PM or just tell me to go first in this thread.
You also have to decide if you're going to post the first argument or if you want me to post first.
If you're going first, just let it fly. If you want me to go first, shoot me a PM or just tell me to go first in this thread.
Wrestling became a mainstream form of entertainment once again in the 1980's... and there were a few high profile women wrestlers. Wendi Richter, Alundra Blayze & The Fabulous Moohlah to name a few.
Back then, these women were just that - wrestlers. But a funny thing happened in the late 80's and her name was Miss Elizabeth.
The role of a woman in wrestling changed dramatically when The Macho Man introduced us to Miss Elizabeth. She was beautiful and elegant, but more importantly, quiet. Instead of stepping into the squared circle and locking in an armbar, she stepped to the ring in gowns and high heels and locked arms with Randy Savage. Miss Elizabeth became a male wrestling fans desire and dream. No longer were women in wrestling viewed as competitors, but rather sex symbols. With time, Elizabeth became involved in matches and involved in major storylines, but very few times as a competitor, only as a manager / valet (see Mega Powers feud for reference).
Several women followed in Elizabeth's footsteps - Sunny, Sable, Chyna, Terri Runnels, etc... All were viewed more as sex symbols rather than wrestlers. Sure, they mixed it up in and out of the ring every once in a while and Chyna actually held a mens championship, but their T&A was valued more by the men. Despite what Chyna may have looked or wrestled like, she did appear in Playboy as a sex symbol !!!
Then there came a point in time where the sports entertainment business tried to mix beauty and brawn. Women like Trish Stratus, Torrie Wilson, Lita and Mickie James not only became sex symbols, they became damn good wrestlers. BUT... male wrestling fans would have rather looked at Torrie or Lita's breasts instead of their best armbar in the ring.
Sex sells and the WWF / WWE took full advantage of it during the Attitude Era. Some would argue that they went too far - hiring models and drop dead gorgeous women with no in ring ability - but men don't care if hot women can wrestle, they care if hot women get naked !!
That's where TNA is making a mistake today. Wrestling fans are predominantly male and they don't want to see women wrestle - they want to see women get naked. As sterotype as it may be, most men feel that any woman's sport is inferior, regardless whether it's basketball, volleyball, soccer or wrestling. Men are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic.
There are dozens of guys on the TNA roster who are denied precious time in the ring (especially when there's only two hours of tv a week) just so the women can continue pointless storylines that men don't care about. Sure, they have a few women who can truly wrestle, but they hardly ever get on television anymore (Awesome Kong, ODB, and recently released, Roxie).
If TNA was the blueprint for women's wrestling, why are they suddenly going down the same route that the WWF / WWE traveled a few years back - Knockouts in Playboy ???? Someone inside TNA finally figured out that no matter how good a woman is in the ring, men only care about what they look like. Didn't Vince McMahon figure out that sex sells a few years before Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter ?? Looks like the true blueprint for womens wrestling was developed by the WWF / WWE, so they must have the blueprint, despite what copy they're looking at today.
Back then, these women were just that - wrestlers. But a funny thing happened in the late 80's and her name was Miss Elizabeth.
The role of a woman in wrestling changed dramatically when The Macho Man introduced us to Miss Elizabeth. She was beautiful and elegant, but more importantly, quiet. Instead of stepping into the squared circle and locking in an armbar, she stepped to the ring in gowns and high heels and locked arms with Randy Savage. Miss Elizabeth became a male wrestling fans desire and dream. No longer were women in wrestling viewed as competitors, but rather sex symbols. With time, Elizabeth became involved in matches and involved in major storylines, but very few times as a competitor, only as a manager / valet (see Mega Powers feud for reference).
Several women followed in Elizabeth's footsteps - Sunny, Sable, Chyna, Terri Runnels, etc... All were viewed more as sex symbols rather than wrestlers. Sure, they mixed it up in and out of the ring every once in a while and Chyna actually held a mens championship, but their T&A was valued more by the men. Despite what Chyna may have looked or wrestled like, she did appear in Playboy as a sex symbol !!!
Then there came a point in time where the sports entertainment business tried to mix beauty and brawn. Women like Trish Stratus, Torrie Wilson, Lita and Mickie James not only became sex symbols, they became damn good wrestlers. BUT... male wrestling fans would have rather looked at Torrie or Lita's breasts instead of their best armbar in the ring.
Sex sells and the WWF / WWE took full advantage of it during the Attitude Era. Some would argue that they went too far - hiring models and drop dead gorgeous women with no in ring ability - but men don't care if hot women can wrestle, they care if hot women get naked !!
That's where TNA is making a mistake today. Wrestling fans are predominantly male and they don't want to see women wrestle - they want to see women get naked. As sterotype as it may be, most men feel that any woman's sport is inferior, regardless whether it's basketball, volleyball, soccer or wrestling. Men are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic.
There are dozens of guys on the TNA roster who are denied precious time in the ring (especially when there's only two hours of tv a week) just so the women can continue pointless storylines that men don't care about. Sure, they have a few women who can truly wrestle, but they hardly ever get on television anymore (Awesome Kong, ODB, and recently released, Roxie).
If TNA was the blueprint for women's wrestling, why are they suddenly going down the same route that the WWF / WWE traveled a few years back - Knockouts in Playboy ???? Someone inside TNA finally figured out that no matter how good a woman is in the ring, men only care about what they look like. Didn't Vince McMahon figure out that sex sells a few years before Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter ?? Looks like the true blueprint for womens wrestling was developed by the WWF / WWE, so they must have the blueprint, despite what copy they're looking at today.
Is the TNA Knockouts division a blueprint for other women’s division to model after? Yes, it is.
It’s a mixture of brawn and beauty, and its matches are an integral part of drawing ratings consistently. The agreement between TNA and Playboy only adds to the fact that Dixie Carter is noticing that the knockouts division are indeed women. She’s aiming for a mix of brawn and beauty that Vince and the E couldn’t reach. Carter’s trying, and succeeding in bringing actual talent. Not models who take up air time trying to put on horrid matches for people that don’t care. Which is the case of the Diva’s Division in the WWE.
The Knockouts division is setting a standard: They found women that can actually wrestler. How many Divas can currently put on a good match lately? Case in point, here’s a clip of a knockouts ladder match.
[youtube] XCdHPwSR1SA[/youtube]
And besides, if Divas are being used for eye Candy only, it’s not working out at all. I mean, if that is indeed the proper blueprint for a proper women’s division, how come Vince didn’t stick to that plan by trying to fit it into his vision of a promotion. TNA realized that Knockouts in Playboy is another aspect of the women’s division, same as men appearing in movies and television shows.
Dixie and company didn’t realize this too late; they just took advantage of an opening. That opening being the fact that Vince dropped his contract with Playboy because it didn’t fit into his “PG” vision. But I digress.
Again, I ask this: If the true blueprint for a women’s division was don’t by WWE, why isn’t it still applied today? The Knockout matches draw ratings, while the Diva matches fall flat on their face.
This is why TNA Knockouts have the true blueprint for a proper women's division.
It’s a mixture of brawn and beauty, and its matches are an integral part of drawing ratings consistently. The agreement between TNA and Playboy only adds to the fact that Dixie Carter is noticing that the knockouts division are indeed women. She’s aiming for a mix of brawn and beauty that Vince and the E couldn’t reach. Carter’s trying, and succeeding in bringing actual talent. Not models who take up air time trying to put on horrid matches for people that don’t care. Which is the case of the Diva’s Division in the WWE.
The Knockouts division is setting a standard: They found women that can actually wrestler. How many Divas can currently put on a good match lately? Case in point, here’s a clip of a knockouts ladder match.
[youtube] XCdHPwSR1SA[/youtube]
And besides, if Divas are being used for eye Candy only, it’s not working out at all. I mean, if that is indeed the proper blueprint for a proper women’s division, how come Vince didn’t stick to that plan by trying to fit it into his vision of a promotion. TNA realized that Knockouts in Playboy is another aspect of the women’s division, same as men appearing in movies and television shows.
Dixie and company didn’t realize this too late; they just took advantage of an opening. That opening being the fact that Vince dropped his contract with Playboy because it didn’t fit into his “PG” vision. But I digress.
Again, I ask this: If the true blueprint for a women’s division was don’t by WWE, why isn’t it still applied today? The Knockout matches draw ratings, while the Diva matches fall flat on their face.
This is why TNA Knockouts have the true blueprint for a proper women's division.
TNA may draw ratings consistently, but it has little to do with their Knockout division. As it is, they're barely keeping their ratings numbers above a 1.0, and in television, a 1.0 isn't very high.
The WZ News site has broken down the two hours of Impact ratings (based on quarter hours) several times in recent months, and each and every time the show has lost thousands of viewers while the Knockouts have been featured.
The agreement between TNA and Playboy is Dixie Carter trying to get some notariety. And exactly how is she trying to get noticed - by having her female "wrestlers" get naked in the most popular mens magazine on the planet. Essentially, she's giving men what they want - T&A !!! That's exactly what Vince and the WWE is doing, but he's doing it while catering to the PG audience as well. There is still a ton of beautiful women in the WWE, but kids can actually stay tuned in instead of tuning out for "Live Sex Shows" or Playboy cover unveilings.
And the WWE did have a mix of "brawn and beauty" as you put it - I've already mentioned women like Trish Stratus, Mickie James, Lita, Sable, Chyna (in some people's opinion), etc... But Vince was smart enough to realize that men don't care if they can wrestle. THEY SIMPLY WANT TO SEE PUPPIES !!!
What TNA and Dixie Carter are doing is copying the WWF / WWE blueprint from 1993 - 2003. It's the same thing TNA has done with every storyline or angle - copy what the WWE or WCW did 10 - 15 years ago. Examples : featured cruiserweight division, major tag team feuds, MEM = NWO, Knockouts in Playboy, etc... They're all storylines that have been done before and the sad part is, many of the same guys are repeating the process, only this time it's in TNA.
Were they setting the standard when they signed a Survivor winner, gave her little to no wrestling training, and then stuck her on a PPV match with Booker T's wife ??? That was easily the most pathetic ten minutes of wrestling in PPV history !!!
Yes, they do have women who can wrestle - quite a few actually. But once again, it doesn't matter unless they're doing it naked !!! Why do you think Angelina Love and Velvet Sky wear those outfits and flaunt their asses when they get in the ring. It's not because guys can't wait for them to wrestle. t's because they're trying to keep them around instead of having them flip the channel. If they were concerned with womens wrestling, Awesome Kong, Roxie, ODB, Cheerleader Melissa (can't think of her TNA name), etc... would be featured more often - those chicks can actually wrestle, but they're not exactly Knockouts !!!
Vince is keeping the Divas in his vision of a promotion. That's why we see six women tag matches every week. It's not because they have talent - it's because Kelly Kelly, Maryse, Michelle McCool, Melina, Mickie James, Maria, etc... are smokin' friggin' hot !!!!!! He wants to keep men tuned in with hot chicks who bounce around the ring and if we're all lucky, maybe one of them will drop their top. At the same time, it's clean yet sexy and it appeals to viewers of all ages.
Yes, Dixie and company have taken advantage of an opening and as I said before, copied old WWF / WWE storylines, angles and promotions.
Unfotunately for all of us men out here, TNA even managed to screw up getting their Knockouts naked - they chose Traci "My boobs scream of latex" Brooks instead of the really hot and less fake looking Knockouts.
Maybe not. But did the E set the standard when they gave the Go Daddy girl the championship? Maybe not. Did Vince and Company set the standard when he made a Diva search and hire the ones that lost? Maybe not. Myabe Vince set the standard somewhere when he realized that having them show Tn'A, which they don't anymore. Believe me, I've checked! and put them on tag team matches. McCool and James won't be around all the time to help the up and coming divas around.
Well, at least it's a quarter step above the tag team matches that are done on RAW on a weekly basis. Face it, Vince has nothing to do for the Divas. They're for Commercials, Fan Axxess, TV shows, and Music Videos. Stick them on a ring, and they end up looking lost. They got no promo, and the only ones I noticed that did something resembling a promo are not there(one's out by injury, and the other one is out because they're focusing on...Tn'A!)
If the Knockouts division is so flawed by following a repetitive formula from WWE, why doesn't Vince come up with something new? Stratus, Lita, and all those other women that could wrestle are gone. Gone! And he's forced to place them somewhere. There's not even one single valet except for Natalya, and she took a backseat to do that. She's better than half the divas locker room back there! And she's stuck on what? valet!
Right and take off TV and/or future endeavor the ones that can bring something to the table. Does the name Cherry ring a bell?
That's a shitty reason to watch a wrestling match, mate.
Clean and sexy, and it appeals to viewers of all age? So one of them dropping their top off and showing what would most probably be a sports bra is clean and sexy?
And it will appear to viewers of all ages? Seriously, man. Explain that.
And what's Vince doing over there? Recycling ME, faction fights, and Diva Tag Team matches until a pay per view rlls around and fill up the card with two wmen who don't know their way around. Mickie James might have a hand in laying out a match, but she can't be there holding their hand. TNA isn't the first promotion to draw something off the E, and it won't be the last. But I digress from the topic.
That I can't come up with a rebuttal since its true. Better her than Awesome Kong, I guess.
Point is, TNA Knockouts are going to get an edge over the WWE Divas in something, which is this: Playboy draws men. Men watch Spike TV. TNA Impact is on Spike TV. Men will watch TNA Impact to watch the girls that they saw their Tn'A! Besides Christy posed
The question being debated is whether TNA is setting the standard for womens wrestling. It's not whether the WWE is or was setting the standard for a womens division, so your argument and points hold no water based on the topic up for debate.
I simply used the only other example available for womens wrestling in order to show that TNA was not setting the standard.
You obviously didn't see the match between Jenna and Sharmell - simply put, they made any match between any of the WWE Divas look like HBK and Taker at Wrestlemania !!!
Seriously, go to YouTube and watch the Jenna / Sharmell match. You'll have no choice but to agree with me on this point.
There are plenty of women on the WWE roster who can truly wrestle - Mickie James, Gail Kim, Natalya (whom you mentioned), Beth Phoenix, Michelle McCool, Katie Lee Burchill and Melina. Granted, there are a lot of Divas on the roster who can't wrestle as well, but again, we're not debating if the WWE is doing it right - we're trying to prove that TNA is doing it wrong !!!
That rebuttal simply helps emphasize the point I made - it's not about wrestling in the WWE for women, it's about T&A, and Cherry wasn't exactly a drop dead gorgeous model type woman - even though I found her quite cute.
A shitty reason doesn't make it a wrong reason.
Strip clubs serve alcohol, but men don't go to them for the beer and liquor. Playboy has well written articles, but any man who says he buys the magazine for that is a liar. Wrestling has females and men don't watch to see them wrestle - that's why Torrie Wilson's issue is one of Playboy's highest selling issues ever (it's true, look it up), but her matches drew terrible ratings and we never saw a fan in the crowd wearing a Torrie Wilson t-shirt !!!
Womens wrestling in the WWE is clean yet sexy. I'm making a point that men watch their matches hoping for a nip slip or a ripped pair of pants, but it doesn't happen. In all the years I've been watching wrestling, I've never seen it happen, but a guy can hope and pray, can't he ??
In TNA, we're constantly bombarded with The Beautiful People trashing women who don't resemble them. They constantly flaunt their asses on the way to the ring, getting in the ring, being in the ring and leaving the ring. Now, we're going to see Traci Brooks unveil a Playboy cover and I'm sure Don West will make a million horny comments like he does with The Beautiful People. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem letting my 10-year-old son watch and listen to it.
Point taken and I don't disagree with you except for one comment. While TNA is drawing less than 10,000 PPV buys for their biggest event of the year, the WWE has hundreds of thousands shelling out nearly $60 for Wrestlemania. I guess TNA should feature more womens matches since they're setting the standard and according to you, men want to see women wrestle, not get naked.
Thanks - I finally found someone else on the forums who could care less about Traci Brooks getting naked
Yes, Playboy does draw men and men watch Spike TV and Impact is on Spike so it can be surmised that men will watch Impact.
But as you said, men are watching Impact to see the girls that got naked because they want more nudity. They're not watching to see if they can wrestle !!!!!
Besides, a good wrestling product also draws men regardless of what channel it's on or who got naked in a magazine. That's why millions of men tune in to Raw or Smackdown each and every week regardless of what channel it's on.
BTW - when was the last time you saw Christy on TV ???
i saw it, and regretted it afterwards. Never said it was good. I said nothing actually.
You do know i said "one quarter" thats not even a full step, that like 2 toes or something.
But you're using another promotion that's doing it wrong too as a counter point. In the end, you're not really countering anything.
A shitty reason doesn't make it a wrong reason.
Which is the whole point of it all. TNA might be onto something if they find a way to draw ratings and sell magazines. Which is ideal for it all anyway.
Womens wrestling in the WWE is clean yet sexy. I'm making a point that men watch their matches hoping for a nip slip or a ripped pair of pants, but it doesn't happen. In all the years I've been watching wrestling, I've never seen it happen, but a guy can hope and pray, can't he ??
That's their shtick. They're the beautiful people. They're heels, so it's obviously natural creative-wise for them to go after those who are not like Love, SKy and Rayne.
Which is part of the deal of being The beautiful people. You don't see ODB doing the same thing, right?
Part of his deal. Lawler did it too with the puppies, remember? Don's gonna praise Traci, and West is gonna say otherwise.
Then don't let him watch it. TNA isn't exactly kid-friendly, really.
But it wasn't exactly because of the women's division or anything, right?
Thanks - I finally found someone else on the forums who could care less about Traci Brooks getting naked
She's awkward looking, man. 'nuff said.
Again, all I'm trying to say is, they got the talent, they can put on matches if need be, and now that they got this deal with playboy, they can go in a direction that can balance Brawn and Beauty. And maybe, just maybe, the Knockouts division can say that they're contributing to ratings on Impact and buys on the payperviews.
That's a low blow
.And that one statement sums up the entire argument - "if they find a way to draw ratings and sell magazines..." They aren't exactly doing a great job with ratings right now and as I previously mentioned, according to Nielsen, when the Knockouts hit the ring the ratings go down !!
So is that the way all the Knockouts should act since you claim TNA is setting the standard for womens wrestling ?? If the answer is "yes", then it's not about wrestling at all - it's about T&A as I claim. If the answer is "no", then how can TNA be setting the standard if that shtick allows a woman to hold the Knockout title - again, it would be about T&A.
Because ODB isn't exactly attractive, which again makes it all about the T&A and not about wrestling because ODB can actually wrestle.
But they're not contributing to ratings on Impact and they're not encouraging PPV buys - so TNA is obviously not the measuring stick for womens wrestling.
That's a low blow
Clarity of debate- 1 point
Both were about the same level of debating clarity, except I think that ztwhite did the best job
Punctuality- 1 point
ztwhite, as Steven stepped out for a bathroom break, and did not return.
Informative- 1 point
I think ztwhite had the best information put forth in this debate. not a bad show for either competitor.
Emotionality- 1 point
ztwhite led the debates emotional feel. I have to give him the point here
Persuasion- 1 point
After all that, ztwhite seems to be on the fast track in this, but after it all, I must say, steven persuaded me the best, so I give him the point
TM rates this 4 points ztwhite to 1 points steven.
Both were about the same level of debating clarity, except I think that ztwhite did the best job
Punctuality- 1 point
ztwhite, as Steven stepped out for a bathroom break, and did not return.
Informative- 1 point
I think ztwhite had the best information put forth in this debate. not a bad show for either competitor.
Emotionality- 1 point
ztwhite led the debates emotional feel. I have to give him the point here
Persuasion- 1 point
After all that, ztwhite seems to be on the fast track in this, but after it all, I must say, steven persuaded me the best, so I give him the point
TM rates this 4 points ztwhite to 1 points steven.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Clarity of debate: I'm giving the point to Steve. You did a good job, ztwhite, but your opening argument was way too heavy on history and not focused as much as it should have been on the question raised.
Point: Steven
Punctuality: Point goes to ztwhite.
Point: ztwhite
Informative: Both of you brought in good information. I liked that you brought in articles/posts from the main site though, ztwhite.
Point: ztwhite
Emotionality: You go on the offensive just as much as you go on the defensive, ztwhite; I like that. Show a little bit more moxie in your next debate, Steven, and you could be one of the best debaters in the league.
Point: ztwhite
Persuasion: I liked you argument more, Steven. I'm giving you the point here. However, other criteria prevent me from giving you the win. But, I look forward to what you have to offer in the coming weeks.
Point: Steven
tdigle's Score
Steven: 2
ztwhite: 3
Point: Steven
Punctuality: Point goes to ztwhite.
Point: ztwhite
Informative: Both of you brought in good information. I liked that you brought in articles/posts from the main site though, ztwhite.
Point: ztwhite
Emotionality: You go on the offensive just as much as you go on the defensive, ztwhite; I like that. Show a little bit more moxie in your next debate, Steven, and you could be one of the best debaters in the league.
Point: ztwhite
Persuasion: I liked you argument more, Steven. I'm giving you the point here. However, other criteria prevent me from giving you the win. But, I look forward to what you have to offer in the coming weeks.
Point: Steven
tdigle's Score
Steven: 2
ztwhite: 3
Clarity of debate- Steve
I had no clarity issues with either arguement, both were even mostly, but in the end I give the point to Steve for his opening argument being short and to the point.
Punctuality- ?
I didn't notice anyone being late with their arguments.
Informative- Zwhite
Zwhite brought in the better information to help support his argument.
Emotionality- Zwhite
I didn't feel much emotion to be honest between either contestant, but during the rebuttals I saw more emotion from Zwhite then Steve. So I award him the point.
Persuasion:- Steve
While Zwhite did bring the better information in my eyes to support his claims, for some reason he just couldn't persuade me. While Steve did. I think next time both contestants should try to go out of their way more to get their point across to try and persuade a judge.
Steve- 2 points
Zwhite- 2 points
I had no clarity issues with either arguement, both were even mostly, but in the end I give the point to Steve for his opening argument being short and to the point.
Punctuality- ?
I didn't notice anyone being late with their arguments.
Informative- Zwhite
Zwhite brought in the better information to help support his argument.
Emotionality- Zwhite
I didn't feel much emotion to be honest between either contestant, but during the rebuttals I saw more emotion from Zwhite then Steve. So I award him the point.
Persuasion:- Steve
While Zwhite did bring the better information in my eyes to support his claims, for some reason he just couldn't persuade me. While Steve did. I think next time both contestants should try to go out of their way more to get their point across to try and persuade a judge.
Steve- 2 points
Zwhite- 2 points
Luther_Hull
Cunt.
Clarity of debate: ztwhite presented a better argument here I thought.
Punctuality: ztwhite
Informative: ztwhite brought most to the debate
Emotionality: I felt more emotion coming through in ztwhite's posts
Persuasion: At the end of this, I shared the viewpoint of ztwhite,which makes this a whitewash, which I think is unfair on Steve, but I felt ztwhite won out on all categories, if only by a slight margin.
ztwhite 5-0 Steve
Punctuality: ztwhite
Informative: ztwhite brought most to the debate
Emotionality: I felt more emotion coming through in ztwhite's posts
Persuasion: At the end of this, I shared the viewpoint of ztwhite,which makes this a whitewash, which I think is unfair on Steve, but I felt ztwhite won out on all categories, if only by a slight margin.
ztwhite 5-0 Steve
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Clarity Of Argument: I’d have to say ztwhite, Metal Gear Steve’s argument was hard to read in some places, make sure to proofread your work before you post it.
Point: ztwhite
Punctuality: both arguments were posted within the deadline so the points are split.
Point: ztwhite and Metal Gear Steve
Informative: I feel that ztwhite was at a disadvantage with this debate (most of the IWC automatically has it glued into their minds that the Knockouts are superior to the Divas) and he managed to make the best of it. Can’t argue with the fact that sex sells… talent in women’s wrestling is merely a bonus.
Caution: to anyone posting facts, have some sort of proof to back them up with
Point: ztwhite
Emotionality: both arguments were full of passion, each debator going back and forth challenging his opponents argument.
Point: ztwhite and Metal Gear Steve
Persuasion: I’m going with ztwhite, there were times when Metal Gear Steve’s argument went around in circles and by the end of the debate ztwhite had it won
Point: ztwhite
Echelon’s rating
Metal Gear Steve: 1 point
Ztwhite: 4 points
Point: ztwhite
Punctuality: both arguments were posted within the deadline so the points are split.
Point: ztwhite and Metal Gear Steve
Informative: I feel that ztwhite was at a disadvantage with this debate (most of the IWC automatically has it glued into their minds that the Knockouts are superior to the Divas) and he managed to make the best of it. Can’t argue with the fact that sex sells… talent in women’s wrestling is merely a bonus.
Caution: to anyone posting facts, have some sort of proof to back them up with
Point: ztwhite
Emotionality: both arguments were full of passion, each debator going back and forth challenging his opponents argument.
Point: ztwhite and Metal Gear Steve
Persuasion: I’m going with ztwhite, there were times when Metal Gear Steve’s argument went around in circles and by the end of the debate ztwhite had it won
Point: ztwhite
Echelon’s rating
Metal Gear Steve: 1 point
Ztwhite: 4 points
