We Think The Creative Team Are The Biggest Heels.

[TUFFY54]

I've noticed something for a long time on these forums. When something happens that we like, we cheer like wrestling fans. When something happens that we don't like, we don't boo like wrestling fans, we trash the creative team. (Lord knows I'm guilty of it too so I'm not passing judgement.) It really seemed to pick up in the discussion of last night Royal Rumble. We just don't act like wrestling fans anymore. We act like critics. Lets take a look at some of the main issues people on this site had with the Rumble.

1. Nexus costing Orton the title
Pretty simple. Last night Orton was about to beat The Miz when Nexus and CM Punk interfered and cost him the belt.

How a wrestling fan should react
Damn, that no good Nexus cost Orton the title. I sure can't wait for Orton to get his hands on those guys!

How the IWC reacted
This is total crap. Why are they making everything so complicated? They can't even keep a storyline straight. What about their feud with the Corre? Why do they make Miz seem so weak.

2. Nexus dominated the Rumble
In the middle of the match Nexus threw out about five people, then eliminated another five or so as they came in. This didn't end until Cena showed up.

How a wrestling fan should react
Oh man, look how that gang of bullies is beating everybody up. That's so unfair! There aren't supposed to be any partners in the match. I was so glad when Cena came in and cleaned house.

How the IWC reacted
I told you 40 guys were too many. What was the point of just having Nexus in their to throw the jobbers out? They even threw out John Morrison. How dare they! Of course Super Cena came out to save the day. I'm glad I didn't waste my money on the PPV. (ever notice that the people that trash it the most almost never watched it)

3. Miz eliminates Cena
After being eliminated, Alex Riley distracted Cena while Miz eliminated him.

How a wrestling fan should react
I can't believe Miz eliminated Cena! That was so unfair. Cena is going to destroy him for this.

How the IWC reacted
I saw this coming a mile away. Why else would Miz be out their. Well this is going to be a terrible Wrestlemania main event. God the WWE sucks.

Of course there are other things people have issues with, but these were the main ones last night. Wrestling is about as simple as anything could be. Good guys win fair and square, and bad guys cheat to win. We know this, but we dissect everything like its the Human Genome Project. Why can't we just be fans? Why do we always look at the bookers, creative team, or the backstage politics? Are some things stupid and annoying? Of course they are. Every form of entertainment does things that we don't like from time to time. However, with wrestling we almost never look at only the in ring product. Imagine watching a movie and talking not about the plot, but about what you think went on in the production meetings while filming.

I think we would all enjoy wrestling a lot more if we could just be fans again.

 

[Suviluer]

Amen tuffy, amen! you said everything right there... i agree completely with you, i mean, i like knowing whats going on backstage, but when i turn on the TV, i'm just another fan! and to tell the truth i loved this ppv!! I haven't been this happy with a ppv in a long long time... sure it had its down sides like every show does but overall its was great! and i dont understand why everyone is complaining

 

[Undertaker the 5th]

Another one that people seem to have a problem with is:

Del Rio won the rumble.
How a fan should react.
Damn that son of a bitch stole the thing from Randy Orton or something of that nature.

How the IWC reacts.
Disappointed. Now I know not to pay for the pay per view next year. My money sure as hell is not going to buy Wrestlemanai this year.

Honestly, I thought it was really good and creative did a great job in my opinion. I know I am part of the IWC, but I don't consider myself a critic. I consider myself a fan and I don't watch to just throw my 2 cents about all the bad shit that happens in every show.

 

[772Attitude]

And thats REAL. We ruin everything by trying to predict everything and find every little thing wrong with the segment. I personally like the PPV last night. No one really expected Del Rio to win. No one expected Nexus to attack Randy Orton. I sure as hell thought Edge was gonna lose because he couldn't use the spear, but we all forgot he's the ultimate opportunist. Overall i was just a fan last night and enjoyed it.

 

[HBKStreakbuster]

I think the Creative team for the WWE is garbage...and the IWC is the voice of reason...in my opinion...Having Booker T eliminated so fast was really lame and defeats the purpose of his return. Also, Rando Orton as a face has gotten stale....and you can see this as the crowd was very bored with him and didn't even stand up...everyone knows (except creative team) Randy works MUCH better as a heel...Also people wont give 2 shits about Cena vs Miz at WM27...they already chant Cena sucks all day long..but its hard to get behind a tool like the Miz who is not a great wrestler at all...The biggest stars are missing in action...Undertaker, HHH, Jericho..WWE is in trouble right now because Alberto Del Rio as RR Champ might sell 2 extra PPV buyins....these nerds have no idea what the regular fans want to see...Cena and Orton are very tired as faces already, at least turn Orton. WWE is what it is...appealing to younger Hornswoggle, santino, cena audiences...not fresh anymore...Finally, the move the John Morrison did was epic landing on the tarp and not letting his feet hit the ground..then jump 14 feet to the stairs.

 

[Dzone]

I was gonna make a thread about "Did IWC ruin wrestling" stating points such as we were so sure HHH is coming back at RR when he didn't nothing less would have the same impact making the RR crappy...

Lol I hate you making basically the thread I was going to xD

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Well, its quite simple really we are the experts besides the experts. You know those guys you see when the shit went down in 2008? Those are called Economists, they're experts besides the government because they studied it and they know how it works. The same for political scientist, and the same for Steve Jobs. If wrestling was taken seriously in the news we'd be over there ( well not "us" more like LaBar and Isenberg). So yeah, we're experts, some aren't as bright as others and some don't seem to understand what's good for business and some are downright moronic. The problem is that we don't hate the wrestlers, how could we? They're doing there jobs. The same way we sometimes think the criminals are evil when at times its the system that breeds the criminals that is to blame. And that's what we do. Now granted some things to argue about are downright stupid, but other things ARE valid. For example:

They eliminated Morrison because of Nexus and it was a good showing. Morrison needed five guys pushing him in the same direction to take him out. But since one of the Nexus was going down anyway, Morrison should have latched onto that guy and as The Nexus would realize they can't push him out without taking that guy out as well, they do the whole "sacrifice" thing.

At times there's good booking and other times an absolutely stupid booking (SummerSlam '10)

 

[The Suplexer Perfecter]

The IWC are "armchair quarterbacks". We think we know how to do a wrestling show because we found things out through Dave Meltzer or any other internet dirt sheet. Meltzer never ran a company either or was a booker. None of us have ran a wrestling company too. This is why wrestlers laugh at the internet fans.

We want the stars who we were told or made to believe were the best through the internet to be in the top match or be champion and ignore that you have to put asses in seats and make money.

Back in the day no one ever cheered a heel. Now you get dueling chants. If you could care less about who is heel or face and just want guys dropped on their head and do spot after spot, you shouldn't care about promos or story lines and just want guys to fake fight. Since you KNOW it is fake and constantly acknowledge it's fakeness you don't need to be "talked into" buying a PPV. The card match up is all you need.

People complain about PG when things like ECW and the attitude era spoiled the fans. Back in the day people went crazy for a simple chair shot and gasped at it, or a simple off the top rope move like Savage with a double axe handle or Snuka giving the splash.

Now you have to go through tables or get a severe shot with a weapon to get a reaction as crazy.

Having Booker T eliminated so fast was really lame and defeats the purpose of his return.

That quote from HBKSteakbuster shows what I mean. Booker T hit all his signature spots and was over as hell. Why did he need to do anything else when his purpose was just for a feel good moment? RVD in 09 didn't do anything, or Roddy Piper, Snuka and Foley in 08. It was a FEEL GOOD MOMENT.

When are the IWC guys going to run their own wrestling company and book it to prove they know what they are talking about?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The OP made a lot of good points. A sad fact is that a very healthy number of the IWC don't watch wrestling in the hopes of being entertained but, rather, they watch to critique everything they see. They have very specific ideas for what they believe should happen, who it should happen to and how exactly it should go down. Whenever those specific ideas that they want to see come to fruition, many actually get downright pissy about it. Lots of people wanted to see John Morrison win the Royal Rumble last night. It didn't happen so, automatically, everything about the event last night was absolute shit in their eyes. The IWC is the Monday morning Quarterback of professional wrestling.

The simple truth of the matter is that wrestling companies are going to book matches, feuds & storylines based upon what they think has the best chance of getting over. Do they make mistakes sometimes? Absolutely. There's no getting around that because it's not an exact science. There are ideas that make it onto the screen that sound good on paper but are duds in practice and I'm sure that there are some ideas that wind up in the trash that would probably turn out to be great in practice. That's just the way the mop flops. You're going to have hits and you're going to have misses.

Whenever I read someone post something in which they hint that they could do a better job from a creative aspect, it really puts into perspective just how many gas bags are part of the IWC. Like others, I might rag on things that don't personally appeal to me. That's alright because quality is subjective after all. However, the vast majority of us aren't nearly the "experts" we like to think or claim that we are. Why is that? Because the VAST majority of us have never booked a wrestling match, feud or storyline in our entire lives. We have ZERO actual experience in the creative process of pro wrestling but we sometimes manage to fool ourselves into believing that we do. Why? Because we spout off our ideas on what we want to see or think is a good idea and feel all warm and fuzzy whenever someone agrees with us. That, however, is not even remotely the same thing as creating ideas that will be played out on live television each week in front of millions upon millions of viewers from all over the world.

We sometimes spout off like we know what we're talking about when, sometimes, we're just shooting our mouths off about things that we think is a good idea. For example, I might like the idea of seeing Daniel Bryan face The Undertaker at WrestleMania. I might have all sorts of ideas as to how to set the feud up, a general layout for promos, etc and it might sound like solid gold to my ears. But most of those millions of viewers might not be so hot for my idea and, as a result, interest for the idea is low. The IWC doesn't have the legit financial pressures on their shoulders that creative members do and the real life pressures are what seperates the IWC. The IWC, literally, has nothing to lose. The potential financial ramifications that could come from putting out a piss poor product doesn't apply to the IWC because there are no financial ramifications for the IWC. They can criticize, shoot their mouths off, spout off their ideas all they want because they risk absolutely nothing. The WWE is a business with hundreds of employees and decisions that are sometimes made based on ideas from the creative end of the business can potentially cost the company huge sums of money and people's jobs.

As a fan, I do criticize the creative process of the WWE sometimes and other wrestling companies. But you'll never see me suggest that I could do a better job. Until/unless someone actually gets out from behind their computer and is willing to put their money where their mouth is, then it's all just hot air.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I've noticed something for a long time on these forums. When something happens that we like, we cheer like wrestling fans. When something happens that we don't like, we don't boo like wrestling fans, we trash the creative team. (Lord knows I'm guilty of it too so I'm not passing judgement.) It really seemed to pick up in the discussion of last night Royal Rumble. We just don't act like wrestling fans anymore. We act like critics. Lets take a look at some of the main issues people on this site had with the Rumble.

1. Nexus costing Orton the title
Pretty simple. Last night Orton was about to beat The Miz when Nexus and CM Punk interfered and cost him the belt.

How a wrestling fan should react
Damn, that no good Nexus cost Orton the title. I sure can't wait for Orton to get his hands on those guys!

How the IWC reacted
This is total crap. Why are they making everything so complicated? They can't even keep a storyline straight. What about their feud with the Corre? Why do they make Miz seem so weak.

Great booking - sets Punk/ Orton up nicely. Nexus can still feud with Corre - Punk's the leader, he has already made it clear he has higher aspirations than just being leader. No one has ever decried Flair's legacy for the short cuts he was famous for.

2. Nexus dominated the Rumble
In the middle of the match Nexus threw out about five people, then eliminated another five or so as they came in. This didn't end until Cena showed up.

How a wrestling fan should react
Oh man, look how that gang of bullies is beating everybody up. That's so unfair! There aren't supposed to be any partners in the match. I was so glad when Cena came in and cleaned house.

How the IWC reacted
I told you 40 guys were too many. What was the point of just having Nexus in their to throw the jobbers out? They even threw out John Morrison. How dare they! Of course Super Cena came out to save the day. I'm glad I didn't waste my money on the PPV. (ever notice that the people that trash it the most almost never watched it)

In my opinion, this is actually fantastic writing. Punk is white hot, the new Nexus is validated - it required them all to eliminate JoMo so he still looks strong. While I have despaired at Super Cena in the past (bouncing up from being DDT'd on concrete to defeat Gabriel and Barrett less than two minutes later). However, in this case making Cena look invincible could be the greatest thing ever... (cont. below)

3. Miz eliminates Cena
After being eliminated, Alex Riley distracted Cena while Miz eliminated him.

How a wrestling fan should react
I can't believe Miz eliminated Cena! That was so unfair. Cena is going to destroy him for this.

How the IWC reacted
I saw this coming a mile away. Why else would Miz be out their. Well this is going to be a terrible Wrestlemania main event. God the WWE sucks.

Miz the weak champion versus Super Cena, this could potentially be mad genius great. They've actually been building this subtly too, just think about how many of Miz's promos are around no-one thought he could be a successful wrestler nevermind WWe Champion. Now the ultimate test - how does Lex Luther defeat Superman?

Of course there are other things people have issues with, but these were the main ones last night. Wrestling is about as simple as anything could be. Good guys win fair and square, and bad guys cheat to win. We know this, but we dissect everything like its the Human Genome Project. Why can't we just be fans? Why do we always look at the bookers, creative team, or the backstage politics? Are some things stupid and annoying? Of course they are. Every form of entertainment does things that we don't like from time to time. However, with wrestling we almost never look at only the in ring product. Imagine watching a movie and talking not about the plot, but about what you think went on in the production meetings while filming.

I think we would all enjoy wrestling a lot more if we could just be fans again.

I am still a massive fan but there are times when I scream in frustration (have I mentioned yet that I am a massive TNA fan) at illogical booking... major example Samoa Joe's abduction If anybody is picking on your examples as poor writing, they don't know anything about building heel heat (your meant to get mad at heels; dominance by numbers, cowardice and sneak attacks are great heat builders).

 

[The Eighties]

I'm old in terms of the general age on here, I don't hate Cena, I don't hate faces winning, but I do hate stupidity in the basics of wrestling, and the Rumble PPV featured so much nonsense and bad choice making in my view that I felt I'd wasted my money, and now know my money wont be wasted again on Wrestlemania.

 

[UltimateHitman]

Tuffy, as always, great thread and great points.

Fact is, the internet and spoilers and backstage news and forums are here to stay, good or bad as they can be, but I think you hit the nail right on the head.

It's almost impossible to act like fans instead of critics, especially in a society where criticism and ridicule are the norm. It's like people are happy to be angry, bitter, or "have an edge" (which translates into bitching about everything that's just nice, simple fun). I do think that some criticism is fine, whether it be just to vent or to maybe inspire change in something that could use change, but when it takes away from a person's enjoyment of something, what's the point?

I think that people in general, as spectators, can sometimes see something others cannot. Whether it's the person in charge of a business that is so proud of what he's started and wants it to succeed that he misses some aspects another perspective might notice.

It also boils down to a level of selfishness, which is also prevalent in society. Everybody wants everything optimal towards, or catered to, their specific, individual taste, and when it doesn't measure up the natural instinct is to criticize in order to convey one's own personal ideas of what they thought should happen. The problem is, most people lose sight of the words "in my opinion", or "as far as what I think, anyway", and forget that there are millions of other people with differing views on the same subject.

It can also point to a want of attention. Think about it, if you suggest something, or come up with an idea, and you tell people and they agree and praise you and your idea, you feel good. Makes you feel better and gives you a more positive esteem and outlook on yourself. If you criticize something, and people agree w/your critique, you gain a sense of accomplishment and pride and can positively affect your future attitude. If people don't agree w/your critique you can harbor feelings of anger, resentment, low self-esteem, and negativity towards yourself or others.

That being said, it's almost impossible to make people happy. On one side you have people saying "I'm sick of seeing so and so every ppv", and then they push new talent and then gripe and whine "Oh, why did he win?" or "Why did he get a push?" or "He wasn't ready". Nobody would ever be ready if you didn't give them the means to go anywhere. Nobody would ever be ready if you didn't do something different or push different talent. Sorry, just had to get that out.

There are other things that can play a factor but since I'm not writing a psychology book I will leave those out since I've been wordy enough anyway. Besides, attention spans are rapidly declining these days...

Even though I went a little "deep" on the subject, I do agree that people seem to be unable to just have a good time and cheer or boo as fans. Whether it's the want of attention, the need to feel informed, or "in the know", or even a part of something to fulfill a dream or desire, or even a combination of these and other factors, people almost seem ashamed or embarrassed to just let down their guard and have a good time. Maybe it even makes them feel "weak" or "child-like" or they feel like they'll be ridiculed and as such repress expressing their enjoyment.


Whatever the reason, maybe the simplest solution would be to do what the OP is alluding to in his post and just "lighten up".