WCW Semi-Final; Match 1: The Outsiders vs. AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels
- Thread starter Shocky
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Yeah, after they toppled Owen Hart and Yokozuna.
Overrated. It's a word that's thrown around a lot these days. However, it's a label the Outsiders are all too familiar with. They've been called it so much that any pro-Outsiders argument will address it even if no opponent has brought it up. Personally, I feel it's fitting.
Yes, The Outsiders were two thirds of the core nWo group. They were six time WCW world champions. But what did all this really entail? I put it to you that The Outsiders are something dreadful; a tag team no more than the sum of their parts. Even teams like Angle & Benoit added to each other, through rivalry and tension. But The Outsiders were just two guys, not really a team. I also put it to you that The Outsiders are not famous due to their in-ring skills, especially as a team. They spent most of their time posing in front of the camera, mouthing off and flailing their limbs wildly, big arrogant smirks on their faces. This was during their matches even. Sure, makes great heel psychology. Ultimately though, it's a massive weakness. The Outsiders are a pie of all crust and no filling.
AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, they have plenty of filling. It's all juicy, tasty filling. While Hall and Nash are busy posing and insulting commentators, yada, yada, yada, Staniels will have already kicked their asses across the state and back before they can properly focus again. And say they do get the advantage back, it'll just be wasted when one of them starts combing their hair for the benefit of the audience. There's just no keeping up with a pace that electrifying when you stop every two seconds to pretend to spit at someone... and especially when you're Kevin "my knees, my knees!" Nash.
Overrated. It's a word that's thrown around a lot these days. However, it's a label the Outsiders are all too familiar with. They've been called it so much that any pro-Outsiders argument will address it even if no opponent has brought it up. Personally, I feel it's fitting.
Yes, The Outsiders were two thirds of the core nWo group. They were six time WCW world champions. But what did all this really entail? I put it to you that The Outsiders are something dreadful; a tag team no more than the sum of their parts. Even teams like Angle & Benoit added to each other, through rivalry and tension. But The Outsiders were just two guys, not really a team. I also put it to you that The Outsiders are not famous due to their in-ring skills, especially as a team. They spent most of their time posing in front of the camera, mouthing off and flailing their limbs wildly, big arrogant smirks on their faces. This was during their matches even. Sure, makes great heel psychology. Ultimately though, it's a massive weakness. The Outsiders are a pie of all crust and no filling.
AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, they have plenty of filling. It's all juicy, tasty filling. While Hall and Nash are busy posing and insulting commentators, yada, yada, yada, Staniels will have already kicked their asses across the state and back before they can properly focus again. And say they do get the advantage back, it'll just be wasted when one of them starts combing their hair for the benefit of the audience. There's just no keeping up with a pace that electrifying when you stop every two seconds to pretend to spit at someone... and especially when you're Kevin "my knees, my knees!" Nash.
OK I get it everybody loves AJ and Daniels but come on already. These 2 should not have even made it out of the first round. I believe the TNA fans on this board are clearly overestimating how good AJ and Daniels are. Are they good yes, are they great yes they are. Are they very small YES they are definitely very small. AJ and Daniels have gotten this far because of very biased TNA fans and that is all. Not on their talents and their lack of size but because everybody wants to sweat AJ and Daniels. They never would beat the first two teams they beat and they definitely should not go over the Outsiders here. Hall and Nash would destroy them and if the going got a little rough for the Outsiders they would always cheat to win. Outsiders in a squash match for me.
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
A squash!? Are you on crack?!
It's cool if you think the Outsiders are going to win, but to think they would squash a team like Styles and Daniels, who worked better in tandem than most team's I've ever seen is laughable.
I voted against Staniels ve Owen and Yoko, and the idea that AJ and Chris toppled Owen and Yokozuna is a true tournament upset. But The Outsiders are a step down from Owen and the big man.
The Outsiders were, at this point, at the declination point of their careers. They were riding Hogan's coat tails, and partially due to their influence, few wrestlers LIKE AJ and Chris got through in WCW.
AJ and Chris have the agility, speed, cunning, and desire to upset Hall and Nash, even on their turf with WCW rules. The idea that WCW's "slower, 4-sided ring will slow Staniels down" is an insult to every luchador who put WCW on the map with fast moves and high flying. And both AJ and Daniels were accomplished wrestlers long before TNA, so they've done their work in a 4-sided ring as well.
I'll take Staniels to upset The Outsiders in a GREAT match.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I think I agree with IC, but I'm not sure. My problem simply is I'm not sure I can see a situation where they could pin either Hall or Nash. However, as IC said, these two match up great with the bigger men. Hall and Nash are big, but they're not big enough that they're invincible. Daniels can go on the mat with anyone his size, and that's something that neither Hall or Nash excel in. Hall and Nash are power guys and they always have been. The biggest problem here for Hall and Nash is that both of their finishers are much easier for small guys to escape than power guys. If that happens, all it takes is a Superman forearm from AJ (which I always mark out for) into a rollup from Daniels to get the win. As IC said, I'll take Staniels in an absolute classic.
Its a simple, simple, simple thing to slove. The Outsiders are just too damn slow. They don't stand a chance againist the fastest men going in the business today. Plus, the outsiders NEVER EVER did any decent teamwork that I can recall.
Styles and Daniels win in 15 : 23(if Hall could go that long
) with the ol' Moonsault Frogspalsh combo meal
Styles and Daniels win in 15 : 23(if Hall could go that long
) with the ol' Moonsault Frogspalsh combo mealTrue. The basis for the argument against Staniels so far seems to be The Outsiders' size. But you should realise that size comes with the sacrifice of speed; even the best big men couldn't avoid the laws of physics, namely that discovery that Isaac Newton made, I forget the name. Staniels were always about their electrifying pace, their tandem work making what were already two nonstop wrestlers even deadlier. And, like I already mentioned, The Outsiders liked to stop every two seconds to reassure the audience that they were *****.
Kevin Nash was one year removed from being the longest WWF Champion of the 90's, so to say this guy was out of his prime is a big of an over statement. Scott Hall was a year removed from being arguably one of the greatest IC champions of all time, s to say that Hall was out of his prime, is a bit of an ovestatement.
Hall and Nash win this match, and it's a squash. Daniels, as I've said, doesn't do anything for me. Daniels doesn't match up with Hall or Nash at this point. As I said, this isn't the Silver Fox Kevin Nash, and it's not Big Daddy Cool, but Big Sexy is more then enough to handle both Daniels and Styles.
At this point, the Outsiders were going over teams like Harlem Heat, Public Enemy, the Steiner Brothers, Luger and the Giant, which saw Kevin Nash Jacknife the Giant. Plus, this was at a time the outsiders dominate the cruiserweights like nothing. If Staniels tries anything on someone like Nash at this point in his career, well I believe the image of Rey Mysterio getting launched like a lawn dart into the side of tv production truck comes to mind.
Nash and Hall, and it is a squash to me.
Hall and Nash win this match, and it's a squash. Daniels, as I've said, doesn't do anything for me. Daniels doesn't match up with Hall or Nash at this point. As I said, this isn't the Silver Fox Kevin Nash, and it's not Big Daddy Cool, but Big Sexy is more then enough to handle both Daniels and Styles.
At this point, the Outsiders were going over teams like Harlem Heat, Public Enemy, the Steiner Brothers, Luger and the Giant, which saw Kevin Nash Jacknife the Giant. Plus, this was at a time the outsiders dominate the cruiserweights like nothing. If Staniels tries anything on someone like Nash at this point in his career, well I believe the image of Rey Mysterio getting launched like a lawn dart into the side of tv production truck comes to mind.
Nash and Hall, and it is a squash to me.
I.R.S was ace
Occasional Pre-Show
Outsiders take it in a squash.
As good as Style and Daniels are, when working as the Outsiders, Nash and Hall destroyed Cruiserweights on a regular basis.
As good as Style and Daniels are, when working as the Outsiders, Nash and Hall destroyed Cruiserweights on a regular basis.
How is this even still?
Do I need to remind anybody of why the Outsider were in WCW, dominating so much. Sam and KB have already expressed Staniels advatanges clearly enough. The Outsiders have rings literally run around them by Styles in particular in this one.
Of course this isn't Nash at his worst (ie, at the moment) and it is not Scott Hall barely able to perform at all, but Styles and Daniels were awesome in this team, having just come off an awesome fued between each other, less than year ago!
It may be me as an AJ mark speaking but he was on a run at this point and yet he hasn't even reached his potential quite yet.
Do I need to remind anybody of why the Outsider were in WCW, dominating so much. Sam and KB have already expressed Staniels advatanges clearly enough. The Outsiders have rings literally run around them by Styles in particular in this one.
Of course this isn't Nash at his worst (ie, at the moment) and it is not Scott Hall barely able to perform at all, but Styles and Daniels were awesome in this team, having just come off an awesome fued between each other, less than year ago!
It may be me as an AJ mark speaking but he was on a run at this point and yet he hasn't even reached his potential quite yet.
If this tournament were about belts and historic significance, the Mega Power should just have been crowned champions. After all, that team's comprised of arguably the greatest world champion and intercontinental champion in the history of professional wrestling. Voting on that basis is silly.
Staniels are just at a disadvantage because they come from TNA, and the Outsiders made up a part of everyone's favourite stable of the forever, the nWo. Which, of course, means they often relied on overwhelming numbers to get anything done. I've said it before and I'll say it again, The Outsiders are famous for being Hulk Hogan's partners, not for being great in-ring; though, admittedly, Hall needs some recognition.
Staniels are just at a disadvantage because they come from TNA, and the Outsiders made up a part of everyone's favourite stable of the forever, the nWo. Which, of course, means they often relied on overwhelming numbers to get anything done. I've said it before and I'll say it again, The Outsiders are famous for being Hulk Hogan's partners, not for being great in-ring; though, admittedly, Hall needs some recognition.
Hall and Nash without question. Two legends, a great tag team that worked well together. I mean if you have any question on who to vote for just read shocky's post. This shouldn't even be close and the only reason it is because some people will just vote for TNA no matter.
If the Outsider win this it will be on this basis.
But not in this tournament Sam. Not when it's about tag team wrestling.
No, if the Outsiders win, it will because they wrestled for more prestigous titles against better competition. That in a one on one environment, both Hall and Nash are better then Styles and Daniels. That in a tag team environement, the two Kliq members had more chemistry then both styles and daniels. If the Outsiders win, it's because they are better then AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, and the Outsiders get labeled over rated just because they were apart of the NWO.
Well, WCW is more old school, so obviously the tag teams are seen in a better light. I can't ask people to look at things objectively because there's no definite way to do that. Well, maybe there is but I can't be bothered to trawl through records to find it. Time simply hasn't allowed the admittedly great teams like Harlem Heat and the Steiner Brothers to be comparable to newer teams. In ten years time, teams like America's Most Wanted, the Latin American Xchange and maybe even the Motor City Machine Guns and Beer Money will be looked on in the favourable light of nostalgia.
All I know is Staniels tore it up with some of the most athletically impressive athletes out there today, having top tier matches as a result. If top tier matches aren't a mark of a top tier team, I don't know what is.
"One on one" being the key phrase there. And I'd say that it's arguable.
If by "chemistry" you mean simultaneously doing a little jig then yes, Nash and Hall had great chemistry. If my "chemistry" you mean actual teamwork and cohesiveness, then Staniels have that one down.
They're not overrated. Well, they are, but as a competitive tag team. As part of the nWo, they were great. Instrumental even. Great heels: people who could make you hate them.
Daniels and Styles are big fish in a small pond. home grown tna stars that really have no competion or direction to make them a star. I'm sorry but you can't compare the competion that these two teams faced and say they are parallel.
Hall and Nash were the top stars of the wwf for years and still huge draws in wcw and dominated not just beat wcw tag teams but dominated them.
Hall and Nash were the top stars of the wwf for years and still huge draws in wcw and dominated not just beat wcw tag teams but dominated them.
I think that is a little harsh. AMW and LAX should have decent legacies in the business in ten years time. Maybe not on the level of the Steiners (didn't they get knocked out already?) or Harlem Heat but I beg you to look beyond a blatant disregard for TNA and consider that for the short time they were teaming, Staniels accomplished a great amount.
They certainly proved that they were highly adaptable in a tag team environment. And while Nash and Hall worked OK together, to say they destroyed cruisers and call it a advantage over Staniels is almost ridiculous. Those two are giants - they SHOULD destroy cruisers!!!
They certainly weren't the power players that Nash and Hall were in WCW. And Shocky's point about the titles is negated by the fact that I believe (willing to be corrected if am incorrect) but they would be fighting over the NWA Tag Team belts? No prestige there? Puh-lease. (I hope I am right on this point!)
The NWO shouldn't make any difference, but it does. Your points about Nash and Hall being one year out of great runs in WWE are valid but only part relevant in what is a tag team competition. It would be dismissed completely if the Outsiders were facing an actual tag team and not another case of single wrestlers fighting together.
I'm not questioning their achievements, not here anyway. I am just trying to look beyond the fact that WCW is looked at so differently to TNA. It's tough, given the reputation of the Outsiders.
I am still happy in MY choice to vote Staniels.
They certainly proved that they were highly adaptable in a tag team environment. And while Nash and Hall worked OK together, to say they destroyed cruisers and call it a advantage over Staniels is almost ridiculous. Those two are giants - they SHOULD destroy cruisers!!!
They certainly weren't the power players that Nash and Hall were in WCW. And Shocky's point about the titles is negated by the fact that I believe (willing to be corrected if am incorrect) but they would be fighting over the NWA Tag Team belts? No prestige there? Puh-lease. (I hope I am right on this point!)
The NWO shouldn't make any difference, but it does. Your points about Nash and Hall being one year out of great runs in WWE are valid but only part relevant in what is a tag team competition. It would be dismissed completely if the Outsiders were facing an actual tag team and not another case of single wrestlers fighting together.
I'm not questioning their achievements, not here anyway. I am just trying to look beyond the fact that WCW is looked at so differently to TNA. It's tough, given the reputation of the Outsiders.
I am still happy in MY choice to vote Staniels.
AMW should have, the jury is still out on LAX. The Steiners lost because they are facing one of the most popular tag teams of the last decade in Edge and Christian. Popularity won out. The Steiners legacy is easily better then Edge and Christians, but be that as it may. It isn't a blatant disregard for TNA, it's a fact. TNA is small time, and has always been small time. The Outsiders were the Number one team in WCW during the height of it's existance.
Nash and Hall did not work OK, they were a great tag team. And yes, to say that Nash and Hall dominated cruiserweights would have an advantage over Staniels is a legit reason. Styles barely makes the ranks as a heavyweight, and the Curry Man would have to gain about 50 pounds to be taken as a serious wrestler.
You are right, those NWA tag team titles, the ones that were left behind when not only WCW, but ECW destroyed it's allegiance with that failing organization a decade earlier. The titles that mucked around from one indy fed to another for a decade, living on name value instead of prestige, yes those NWA tag team titles.
To call Styles and Daniels an actual tag team is pushing it a bit. These guys are more famous for their feuds then their time as a tag team unit. Hell, Daniels is better known for Triple X then the Phenomenal Angels. Styles and Daniels compliment each other, and they do nice shiny moves that attracts an audience. I get that, but it's not enough to beat the Outsiders.
I maintain that who's small time and who's big time is irrelevant. Otherwise, and I will keep bringing this up, the Mega Powers would just stroll through the tournament, whistling with their hands in their pockets.
It's professional wrestling, where Rey Mysterio has managed to fend off the tag team of Big Show and Kane - except Nash has worse knees than them and Hall is considerably smaller.
I believe that definitive NWA tag team titles were only introduced in the late 90's or early 00's. You're thinking of the world title. A name does not a title make, the people that compete for it do.
Not really, they were definitely a tag team. They worked as an actual team, rather than Nash and Hall.
Arguable.
Arguable.
They also defeat opponents. "Oh, oh, is this what I think it is!? Yes, it is! Nash hit his signature weak-looking club to the back! Oh my God, he did it again! This is just wrong!"
Oh wait one thing i didn't factor into this match. This match is in a WCW ring. A WCW ring does that mean anything to anyone. That means Outsiders would have to squash Staniels to get back to the bar and party ASAP. And the real question is which team would you rather party with. JK. Don't take this post seriously.
T
TheRooster
Guest
If its 2008 AJ and Christopher Daniels win for sure. This is the Outsiders from 1996- 1998. Back in the hayday of WCW and the NWO Hall and Nash were beating teams like Harlem Heat, The Steiners, and Sting and Luger. During this time Hall and Nash were in their prime not 50 year old guys with bad knees. The Outsiders used to destroy the crusierweights. This would be like Misterio and Eddie Gerraro vs The Outsiders. A match in which Hall and Nash would have dominated. It's easy to choose AJ and Daniels when you see the see the shape Nash is in these days, I understand. It's too easy to forget what the Outsiders were 10 years ago and that was a dominate tag team. Yes they were silly and they would cheat in virtually every match but they would cheat because they wanted to not because they needed to. I vote for the Outsiders.
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