What joke. You guys have your noses so far up Gelgarin's ass that you refuse to look at this logically.
Well I was wondering when somebody was going to try this shit. Have to say, disappointed that it's you.
People come to this thread, see how the stipulation massively favours one man, see the coherent arguments presented by the Gagne supporters and see that the best argument anyone from team Andre has been able to field is "Andre is bigger", and you accuse them of being up my ass for coming to the same conclusion that a seven year old would achieve.
On behalf of everyone else who posted in support of Gagne: go fuck yourself JMT.
So just because Andre didn't win many matches by submission during nearly his two decades of complete dominance (15 years this man was undefeated), that automatically means he doesn't know how to win a match with a submission? Really?
Pretty sure we're not allowed to simply make up information. Andre was nothing like undefeated for fifteen years; that is what is known as a promotional lie. He lost plenty of matches during that period to such titans of the industry as Joe Dusek and Don Leo Jonathan. That's not even beginning the consider the myriad of tag matches he last in Japan to guys that even I can't identify.
And yes, the fact that he never used submissions absolutely counts against him on account of this being a
submission match. Seriously, you're attempting to berate people for concluding that the man better at submission wrestling might have an advantage in a submission match, and you're accusing
other people of refusing to look at this logically? Good grief.
Come on, now. You have to believe that if Andre simply knocked Gange down and then stood on his hand and not move, there is not a thing Verne Gange could have done other than fucking tap out.
Perhaps you could find some matches where Andre did this? I looked and I couldn't. Being big and fat doesn't automatically win you a grappling contest. Now we could argue that Andre never needed to employ such a strategy in account of never having fought a submission wrestler like Gagne before.
Oh, wait.
Karl 'fucking' Gotch. April 27th, 1971. The wrestler closest to Verne Gagne that Andre ever faced. The old school submission specialist dismantled Andre, and actually racked up four consecutive victories over him.
Antonio 'fucking' Inoki. June 14th, 1986. Another old school submission specialist who Andre faced with a huge height and weight advantage. Didn't do him a whole lot of good, the giant ended up tapping the fuck out.
And for the record, these were standard singles matches where Andre was free to rely on his power game in order to win the match. They were not contests specifically designed to be advantageous to technicians.
Andre was a monster, and there are very few who could ever take him down.
So was Gagne.
In his prime, no one did.
Verne Gagne had magic powers and could make super heavyweights implode just by looking at them.
You know what the two above statements have in common? They're both totally untrue.
What makes Verne so special?
Well since you asked.
He was one of the most over wrestlers in the world during his prime. He was one of the best draws of his era. He revolutionised the industry and is the primary reason why the technical wrestling you adore is still popular. He was one of the all time great technicians and submission specialists, wrestling to an Olympic standard and he
didn't tap out.
Lou 'fucking' Thesz. October 26th, 1951. Lou Thesz, probably the greatest submission specialist of all time both in and out of kayfabe spent a full sixty minutes trying to make Verne Gagne tap out. He was unsuccessful. Verne Gagne is contrast made Lou Thesz submit to a sleeper hold after 53:00.
That's what makes his so special. He's one of the greatest stars of all time, and he's a fucking submission god wrestling in a submission match against a guy with little to no submission experience. I'm amazed you're struggling so much with the concept here.
The guy couldn't make it in the NWA (his title win was an absolute joke), so he started his own company and made himself champion.
More ignorant fiction, but I suppose I should at least thank you for bringing this up. The main reason I picked Verne Gagne as my primary horse this year was to disprove this nonsense that people insist on spouting. Gagne only succeeding when he held the book is one of the most pervasive myths in classic wrestling (alongside Verne Gagne somehow ignored Hulk Hogan and Verne Gagne was a nepotist who insisted on pushing his son).
Verne Gagne couldn't make it in the NWA you say? You're aware that Verne Gagne
did make it in the NWA right?
Verne Gagne started wrestling in 1949. He didn't found the AWA until 1960. Let's look at his record for those ten years and we can judge whether or not he 'made it'.
1949 - 42 wins, 1 loss. (nobody you'd recognise)
1950 - 104 wins, 13 losses, 38 draws. (ties with Thesz and Rogers - the top stars of the era)
1951 - 161 wins, 7 losses (most by DQ), 14 draws. (Multiple ties with Thesz. Victories over Stu Hart, Dory Funk and Pat O'Connor)
1952 - 120 wins, 6 losses (Hans Schmidt and Lou Thesz were the only men to pin Gagne this year), 7 draws. (More ties with Thesz, victories over Schmidt, O'Connor and Orton)
1953 - 125 win, 8 losses, 12 draws. (Business as usual. Victory over Rocca, the top draw in the world at the time)
1954 - 125 wins, 3 losses (tag matches only), 7 draws. (Nobody you'll know added to the list, more ties with Thesz.)
1955 - 107 wins, 7 losses (tag only), 21 draws. (Multiple victories over Rocca and DLJ, the man who would go on to defeat and totally manhandle Andre the Gaint)
I'm bored now, so I'll just give you a summary of the next five years. It's basically exactly the same as above, but with even fewer losses and victories over Carpenter, Kiniski, Kowalski (both of them), Blassie, Fritz Von Erich, Gorgeous George and basically everyone else significant from that era.
So to summarise, JMT contested that Verne Gagne couldn't make it in the NWA. I am countering this with the assertion that JMT doesn't have a fucking clue what he is talking about.
Gagne was a top star and top draw for ten years before he decided to set up one of the most successful wrestling promotions of all time. He was totally dominant and was shown to be capable of hanging with the very top stars on a regular basis. He has literally thousands of victories to his name, and this was well before the time period that most people consider to be his prime.
So yeah; you're going to have to do your homework again, the last effort really wasn't up to scratch.
This is the guy you want to vote over Andre the Giant, one of the biggest draws and most dominant wrestlers in history. Again... seriously?
Yes it is. This is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and whilst the status quo of you being completely ignorant about his career persists, you might want to wind your outrage back a few notches.