This is a first round match in the WCW Region, Lexington Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WCW Rules. It will be held at Rupp Arena in Lexington, Kentucky.
#16. Batista
Vs.
#17. Scott Hall
Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.
Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
Guys... Don't let what's happened over the last two months make you believe this match is any closer than it really is. On one side, you have a guy that, with John Cena, lifted the doldrums out of 2003. You have a guy that Smackdown was built around, and a multiple time world champion.
On the other side, you have a perennial mid card player, who's biggest impact came in signing a contract, and joining WCW.
I get Batista isn't exactly loved. He's still a much bigger factor in the world of wrestling than Chico.
That would be true, perhaps, if not for a time in 1996 when a guy clad purely in denim jumped the guardrail at a WCW TV show. That sparked one of the two biggest stories of the 90s, it forced WWF at the time to respond, and in turn created the biggest boom since the Hogan era, and a massive financial base on which all things are now built.
Hall started all that and along with Nash was the backbone of the NWO.
Along with that, I doubt there's many people that believe Tista is actually better than Hall. He's known for his huge frame,but not necessarily being very strong. I don't see these two men as particularly physically dissimilar all round.
On top of all that, people boo'd Hall when he was a heel and cheered him as a face. Batista returned as a face and people hated him and it forced him to turn heel The people's reaction FORCED him to turn. So one of these guys is just plain better at doing their job.
Batista's accomplishments be damned. He's highly overdecorated and Hall is under-decorated. This one... goes to the bad guy, mang.
Hard match to call. Batista won accolades that Razor Ramon could only dream about, but his lasting contribution to wrestling will be far inferior to that of Scott Hall. Scott Hall threw a lot of his opportunity away, where Batista seized every opportunity given to him and ended up being the only credible champion on Smackdown. Arrghhhh I don't know, I think on the basis that people will remember Scott Hall for much longer I'm going with him.
I'll try to be nice here, because I really don't want to flame anyone who supports Batista. Big Dave is just flat overrated and not very good in the ring. Sure he's won more titles, been on a bigger stage, and has a better physique, but Batista wasn't apart of one of the most influential factions in wrestling history.
Scott Hall, as both Razor Ramon and himself, had a huge impact on our industry. And he could flat work in the ring. His match with HBK in the ladder match was one of the great gimmick matches of all time. Not to mention how great he is on the stick and how he was guaranteed to be a solid match when he was sober.
To be fair to Batista, Evolution wasn't bad... Not nWo-level great, but not bad at all.
I really WANT to vote for Hall, but kayfabe-wise, why couldn't he ever win a world title, but Batista could?
Yes, Hall runs train on Batista is almost every way, but Dave has accomplished more, you can't take that away from him. According to kayfabe, Batista is better.
X-Pac was part of one of the most influential factions in wrestling history. You think I would vote for him over Batista? Hell no.
Other than his ladder matches with Shawn and the occasional one with Hart, what else is there? Batista has had great matches with Undertaker, HHH, and Cena. I think he would do just fine with Scott Hall.
Scott Hall, one of the biggest stars in the WWF in the "New Generation" era as Razor Ramon and even a bigger star as one of the founding members of the NWO, Scott Hall was skilled in the ring, gold on the mic and was involved in some of the most memorable matches and moments in wrestling history
- Wrestlemania 10 Ladder match with Shawn Michaels
- Curtain Call
- Walking out on Nitro and cutting the infamous promo which started one of the biggest angles in pro-wrestling history, NWO.
Scott Hall is on many peoples lists as one of best wrestler never to win a World title, Batista on the other hand was given countless world titles but was never really over with the fans.
Better in-ring skills - Scott Hall
Better mic skills - Scott Hall
Bigger draw - Scott Hall as a part of the NWO
Impact in wrestling: Scott Hall
Better Legacy as a wrestler: Scott Hall
And there's the rub, isn't it? Despite being apart of one of the most influential factions in history, Hall never won a World Title. Hogan did as part of that faction. Nash did as part of that faction. One would think that with the way the NWO dominated WCW, Hall would have at least had one run. He didn't. That says a lot about his ability to win.
Batista on the other hand was given countless world titles but was never really over with the fans.
Batista was extremely over as a face for a long time during the brand split when Cena ran Raw and Batista Smackdown. He was incredibly popular as someone who chased the World Title, and when he finally won, he was backed heavily by the fans. He had several runs cut short due to injury. But to say he was 'never over' is a ridiculous assessment of his career from 2005-2008 as a face.
I don't like Batista, and think he pales in comparison to Hall in most facets. But I can't ignore his 6 World Titles in comparison to Hall's zero, nor can I ignore his victories over Cena, Edge, Undertaker and HHH to win or retain said titles. All of those men I'd put over Hall, so I have to do the same with Batista.
And there's the rub, isn't it? Despite being apart of one of the most influential factions in history, Hall never won a World Title. Hogan did as part of that faction. Nash did as part of that faction. One would think that with the way the NWO dominated WCW, Hall would have at least had one run. He didn't. That says a lot about his ability to win.
He may have never won a world title yet he had such a big impact on the wrestling business. He was one of the major catalysts for the wrestling boom of the 90s.
Some wrestlers don't need world titles to solidify their place as a legends in wrestling, you know.. guys like Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, Curt Hennig etc, Scott Hall is in that category.
Batista was extremely over as a face for a long time during the brand split when Cena ran Raw and Batista Smackdown. He was incredibly popular as someone who chased the World Title, and when he finally won, he was backed heavily by the fans. He had several runs cut short due to injury. But to say he was 'never over' is a ridiculous assessment of his career from 2005-2008 as a face.
If you watch the video, you can hear majority of the fans booing Batista during the match. Batista was never fully accepted by the fans as a face and not to mention his recent 2014 face run.
Scott Hall could get a bigger reaction from the entire crowd just by grabbing the mic and saying "Hey Yo" than Batista got during his whole run as a face in 2005-2008.
[YOUTUBE]XDWcXX76sp4[/YOUTUBE]
I don't like Batista, and think he pales in comparison to Hall in most facets. But I can't ignore his 6 World Titles in comparison to Hall's zero, nor can I ignore his victories over Cena, Edge, Undertaker and HHH to win or retain said titles.
He may have never won a world title yet he had such a big impact on the wrestling business. He was one of the catalyst for the wrestling boom of the 90s.
Perhaps, but in the end, he took a backseat to Hogan and Nash. His opportunities to even compete for a World Title were few and far between, and when he did, he couldn't even win with interference. His match against Sting at Uncensored 98', I believe, is a prime example of this.
Some wrestlers don't need world titles to solidify their place as a legends in wrestling, you know.. guys like Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, Curt Hennig etc, Scott Hall is in that category.
And such wrestlers were known as enhancement talent. Guys who could make others look like a million dollars in the ring...then lose. You're correct, Scott Hall is in that category.
[YOUTUBE]q3PtAQrvKbY[/YOUTUBE]
If you watch the video, you can hear majority of the fans booing Batista during the match. Batista was never fully accepted by the fans as a face and not to mention his recent 2014 face run.
I watched the end, when Batista won the title, and the fans were on their feet, roaring in applause. Batista then let out a gutteral scream, and the crowd cheered along with him. Batista was highly over as a face during that run, especially during the three matches with HHH.
Batista was never fully accepted as the company's top face, but that was because he competed in the same era as John Cena. But winning 6 World Titles, five as a face, and being the company's #2 face and a huge draw on Smackdown ain't bad.
Scott Hall could get a bigger reaction from the entire crowd just by grabbing the mic and saying "Hey Yo" than Batista got during his whole run as a face in 2005-2008.
He beat Hart and Vicious in a triple threat ladder match, and his win over Goldberg wasn't for the US Title, it was in tag team action.
This isn't a ladder match, and it's not a tag match. Batista's biggest success came as a main event wrestler who won 6 World Championships, and Hall's biggest achievements were being a background player in the NWO, winning a couple of ladder matches, and defeating Goldberg...in a tag match.
You're counting this as a point in Hall's favour? The more about the business that gets exposed, the harder it is for guys to get over and for writers coming up with surprising and exciting angles.
The "curtain call" was a horrible incident and if you want to argue for Hall to win it, it's better to just pretend it never happened and move on. While not the major decider in booking, reliability has to factor in somewhere.
And such wrestlers were known as enhancement talent. Guys who could make others look like a million dollars in the ring...then lose. You're correct, Scott Hall is in that category.
Titles are props you know. A guy like Miz may have won the WWE title but would you rank him above Scott Hall? No.
Scott Hall was more than just an enhancement talent in WCW. Calling him just an "enhancement talent" is overlooking the impact he had in the nWo angle.
I watched the end, when Batista won the title, and the fans were on their feet, roaring in applause. Batista then let out a gutteral scream, and the crowd cheered along with him. Batista was highly over as a face during that run, especially during the three matches with HHH.
I said "during the match". You can hear the crowd boo Batista whenever he is on the offence even though HHH was such a hated heel. When Batista won there was a mild ovation nothing like a "roaring applause".
Anyway, here's another example,
Christian getting cheered as a heel against a face Batista in 2005.
[YOUTUBE]uZHxbDLISiQ[/YOUTUBE].
Batista was never fully accepted as the company's top face, but that was because he competed in the same era as John Cena. But winning 6 World Titles, five as a face, and being the company's #2 face and a huge draw on Smackdown ain't bad.
On the other hand, Scott Hall along with Nash and Hogan created an unprecedented level of success & increased attendance, gate receipts, TV ratings, PPV buyrates, merchandising, licensing, mainstream crossover etc. for WCW
Scott Hall in WCW was a bigger draw than Batista is, was and ever will be.
when did a catchphrase win someone a wrestling match? Can you not see how lopsided that is?
Even though PWF is going with Hall, I have to say Scott Hall as well. Maybe it is because he just got inducted, maybe coz I had a little Razor Ramon scrapbook when I was 8. Fuck it! I have been voting with logic across the board so I have earned myself a <3 vote.
Ah, the Vince Russo logic of booking, the worst kind of thinking there is. So would you discount Ric Flair, seeing that he's won 16 titles? John Cena has won 14, but let's forget about him as well. After all, titles are just props.
Miz is one example, and he's a one-time title holder. Batista has won six, which is a totally different story. It meant the company was behind him. Titles also establish someone as "the man." And Batista was the man six times. Can the same be said for Scott Hall? Nope.
Scott Hall was more than just an enhancement talent in WCW. Calling him just an "enhancement talent" is overlooking the impact he had in the nWo angle.
Regardless of Hogan being the "third guy", that's what Hall truly was. He was there to support Nash and Hogan in their multiple championship wins. Where were the big wins? You could argue the IC title ladder match win in the WWF, but it was for a secondary title.
Where's his main event victory over HHH at Wrestlemania? His Cyber Sunday win against Undertaker at Cyber Sunday? Where's his feat of strength, when he picked up a(at the time) monster heel in Khali and spinebustered him for the title? Where's his Survivor Series, one of the big 4, main-event title win over Booker T?
Hall has none of those things. He didn't close shows, except when in tag matches. He didn't have major single's wins in show-closing matches. He was a secondary guy, and his record reflects it. Like him or not, Batista was and still is, a main event player.
I said "during the match". You can hear the crowd boo Batista whenever he is on the offence even though HHH was such a hated heel. When Batista won there was a mild ovation nothing like a "roaring applause".
No, the applause was heavy, and Batista was cheered like the face that he was during the match. If you want to distort what happened, that's your prerogative. But I saw the match live, and the crowd badly wanted Batista to take the belt from HHH, and they cheered him with fervor when he did, and throughout the match as well.
Christian getting cheered as a heel against a face Batista in 2005.
The only time I heard anything near Christian being "cheered" was when he did Ric Flair's chops, and the crowd chanted "Woo." Here's a secret for you:
Crowds will Woo along with anyone who uses the Flair chop.
Batista, in England, was received well against Christian. Not everyone is going to get the John Cena or Daniel Bryan reaction, but Batista acquitted himself well.
Smackdown average ratings
Pre- Batista : 3.39
Post -Batista : 2.84
No, it's with Cena, and after Cena went to Raw. Cena was far and away the biggest draw the company had at the time, was the hottest star since Lesnar, and had an immense impact on ratings. Batista was never the star Cena was and is, so it's natural that the ratings would drop somewhat.
On the other hand, Scott Hall along with Nash and Hogan created an unprecedented level of success & increased attendance, gate receipts, TV ratings, PPV buyrates, merchandising, licensing, mainstream crossover etc. for WCW.
Without Hall, that angle works because of Hogan and Nash. Hall was the third wheel, and it's not close. Again, the positioning on the card tells the story. Nash and Hogan were positioned as main event talent who fought for and won the gold.
Hall only fought in main event matches when when they were tag matches, received only one shot at the WCW Title, and lost, despite interference. If he was the great performer you claim he is, wouldn't he have gotten more then one shot?
You know who got more then one shot? Batista. And he won the title six times as a result.
Scott Hall in WCW was a bigger draw than Batista is, was and ever will be.
This being the WCW region has nothing to do with it. Hall lost plenty of matches in WCW, and not coincidentally, his biggest losses were in single's matches. The region this is in would have no impact on the match.
Dave Batista lost quite a few big matches as well, there's no disputing that. But his six title wins showed that regardless of where he performed, he was ultimately a winner, as a main event talent.
Belts are props when they're handed to David Arquette or Eric Bischoff in the Russoriffic era of booking. Think about it. In WCW, David Arquette and Eric Bischoff won the World Heavyweight Championship, and Scott Hall did not.
There's no justification to put Hall over Batista here.
Even if this is WCW, does anyone believe that Batista would not have gotten pushed to the moon here? He's a big guy with decent in ring and mic skills. Big guys have been pushed for a lot less in WCW. In fact, I believe that this match will go down the same route as Goldberg/ Hall in 1998 when Goldberg defeated Hall en route to Hogan.
I guess that because of the fact that he never won the World Title, Scott Hall has developed some sort of cult following in the IWC. People wearing the rose tinted glasses of childhood will probably say that he had insane charisma without realizing that Batista has drawn tons of heat as both face and a heel. Hall may have had great matches but so has Batista.
The thing with Hall is that you could speculate that he could have won a world title had there been two of them in his day. The fact is that he did not. This is pretty relevant because he was around in the WWF at a time when there were some very good wrestlers like HBK and Hart but not great ones like Hogan, Austin or Cena. He was someone who was deemed good but he was always the 3rd or 4th guy in a roster that wasn't the greatest. Batista was number 2 in a roster that, if anything, was better than what WWF had in 1995-96.
I guess Batista has also lost favor because he is deemed as somewhat of a scumbag. But I guess that people need to realize that pro wrestling's definition of a scumbag is a guy whose dirty secrets become public knowledge. So I would not read much into that.
If you are looking at stuff like who is a better pro wrestler, then there is only one winner here, and that is Batista.
I love Scott Hall, I really do. However, Batista was a guy that WWE built a whole show around, a multi-time World Champion who has beaten some of the very best this business has to offer, with a record that far outweighs anything Hall has done.
That's not to say Scott didn't have a successful career, he did. The ladder matches against HBK, his multiple IC title reigns, the key role he played in the nWo etc, but Batista's accomplishments are impossible to ignore and in his prime he was an absolute beast. Hall was never a main eventer, even in WCW. He was a supporting player to Nash and Hall in the nWo and is a well deserved HOF entry this year.
But Batista has to get the win here, in his prime he would certainly have been booked to go over Hall.
Batista won more titles, won against bigger names more often, and may have had the better career. But Hall will be remembered longer than Batista will and did more for the business. He revolutionized the ladder match with Shawn Michaels, he worked with smaller guys and actually put them over at a time in wrestling where he wouldn't have to, he made being a bad guy appealing to fans, he was just as vital to the initial NWO story as Nash and was just as over as him throughout the group's history. His personal problems got the best of him and he never won any world titles. But the lasting impact he left on the business is greater than Batista's individual accomplishments.
Ah, the Vince Russo logic of booking, the worst kind of thinking there is. So would you discount Ric Flair, seeing that he's won 16 titles? John Cena has won 14, but let's forget about him as well. After all, titles are just props.
Ric Flair won 16 titles by wrestling for over 3 decades in different territories.
Batista was handed 6 titles in 4 years.
This is from a recent Jim Cornette interview:
Harley Race would hold the title for 3 years, Dory Funk Jr. would have it for 3 years, Ric Flair would hold it for an amount of time, Lou Thesz, you know, practically lived with the thing. Everybody knew he's the champ. in the AWA it was generally Verne Gagne.In the northeast it was Bruno Sammartino, no matter who came and went, everyone knew, Bruno's the champ. Well now the problem is, the title instead of being viewed as the prize in sports, the titles have been used as props. Besides that, now that everyone pretty much knows pro wrestling is choreographed, pre-determined, whatever you wanna call it, everyone knows you're not really the champion and someone just awards you it.
Titles also establish someone as "the man." And Batista was the man six times.
"The title doesn't make the man, the man makes the title" - Triple H
Regardless of Hogan being the "third guy", that's what Hall truly was. He was there to support Nash and Hogan in their multiple championship wins. Where were the big wins? You could argue the IC title ladder match win in the WWF, but it was for a secondary title.
Where's his main event victory over HHH at Wrestlemania? His Cyber Sunday win against Undertaker at Cyber Sunday? Where's his feat of strength, when he picked up a(at the time) monster heel in Khali and spinebustered him for the title? Where's his Survivor Series, one of the big 4, main-event title win over Booker T?
No it doesn't. Hall was one of the reasons the NWO angle was so successful. You think NWO angle would would have been as effective, if some guy like Bret Hart or British Bulldog replaced Scott Hall?
Nash and Hogan were positioned as main event talent who fought for and won the gold. Hall only fought in main event matches when when they were tag matches, received only one shot at the WCW Title, and lost, despite interference. If he was the great performer you claim he is, wouldn't he have gotten more then one shot?
He won the title six times, he also lost the titles six times. Quality > Quantity. None of Batista's title reigns were memorable other than his initial title reign.
Hall was along for the ride with Nash and Hogan. If Hall doesn't have their drawing power alongside him, he's just another guy.
Ratings went from 2.7 a week before to 3.2 after Scott Hall debuted on Nitro. Hall's drawing power alone was just fine.
Belts are props when they're handed to David Arquette or Eric Bischoff in the Russoriffic era of booking. Think about it. In WCW, David Arquette and Eric Bischoff won the World Heavyweight Championship, and Scott Hall did not.
Batista wishes he had a right hand as good as Hall does. Seriously, that shot is still one of the best thrown punches in wrestling. Just had to get that out there.
Here is the thing, the reason people are so proud of the recent HOF announcement is because he deserves it. One of the best-not because he held a dozen world titles, but because he did so much without them. Still to this day when you think IC title- most of you remember Razor first if not at least the top 5 wrestlers to hold the belt. The ladder match? Historical. The nWo invasion? EPIC!
What the hell has Batista done that even comes close to what Hall has done? A few world titles & a 'Boo-tista' chant? He really wasnt terrible in Evolution, but by far didnt revolutionize anything. His biggest memorable moments are probably pinning HHH in the cell, losing against Taker at WM & being John Cena's bitch (ex: WM, the duct-tape LMS match, the I Quit match, etc).
Batista just isnt as big of a deal as he thinks he is. Hall is & we all know it. Thats why him turning it all around & getting the HOF nod is a big deal.
Survey says? The Bad Guy teaches Batista a lesson & moves on to the second round.
Batista wishes he had a right hand as good as Hall does. Seriously, that shot is still one of the best thrown punches in wrestling. Just had to get that out there.
Here is the thing, the reason people are so proud of the recent HOF announcement is because he deserves it. One of the best-not because he held a dozen world titles, but because he did so much without them. Still to this day when you think IC title- most of you remember Razor first if not at least the top 5 wrestlers to hold the belt. The ladder match? Historical. The nWo invasion? EPIC!
What the hell has Batista done that even comes close to what Hall has done? A few world titles & a 'Boo-tista' chant? He really wasnt terrible in Evolution, but by far didnt revolutionize anything. His biggest memorable moments are probably pinning HHH in the cell, losing against Taker at WM & being John Cena's bitch (ex: WM, the duct-tape LMS match, the I Quit match, etc).
Batista just isnt as big of a deal as he thinks he is. Hall is & we all know it. Thats why him turning it all around & getting the HOF nod is a big deal.
Survey says? The Bad Guy teaches Batista a lesson & moves on to the second round.
Funny how you mention the HOF recognition. If I'm mistaken, they are inducting Razor Ramon and not Scott Hall. Funny how they didn't bring up anything he did after he left WWF. So "revolutionizing" the business with the NWO is pretty irrelevant.
As a result, I will be looking at his time in the WWF. He won a few midcard titles and what else? Batista is one of the top superstars of the past decade, won six world titles, and I believe is the only guy to ever beat Cena, Undertaker, and HHH clean. Somebody can look it up if I'm wrong.
Batista's time in the WWE was bigger than Razor Ramon's. The Animal advances.
Funny how you mention the HOF recognition. If I'm mistaken, they are inducting Razor Ramon and not Scott Hall. Funny how they didn't bring up anything he did after he left WWF. So "revolutionizing" the business with the NWO is pretty irrelevant.
As a result, I will be looking at his time in the WWF. He won a few midcard titles and what else? Batista is one of the top superstars of the past decade, won six world titles, and I believe is the only guy to ever beat Cena, Undertaker, and HHH clean. Somebody can look it up if I'm wrong.
Batista's time in the WWE was bigger than Razor Ramon's. The Animal advances.
You know the reason they put 'Razor' in, so dont play dumb or attempt to diminish it. So you mean to tell me that since the name on the HOF announcement is Razor Ramon, you are only going to count that portion of his career in this tournament & ignore where it clearly says Scott Hall at the top of the page?
Is Dave Batista a bigger deal than Scott Hall? Nope. If you would like evidence, please refer to who will be getting cheered next week at Wrestlemania.
Would you mind using your own comments\ideas instead of cutting & pasting things from profight or Wiki? You are making things look bad for those who actually have wrestling knowledge.
You know the reason they put 'Razor' in, so dont play dumb or attempt to diminish it. So you mean to tell me that since the name on the HOF announcement is Razor Ramon, you are only going to count that portion of his career in this tournament & ignore where it clearly says Scott Hall at the top of the page?
Being the third wheel still doesn't make me put him over Batista.
Is Dave Batista a bigger deal than Scott Hall? Nope. If you would like evidence, please refer to who will be getting cheered next week at Wrestlemania.
First face of the NWO. Besides, being a notch below Hogan & Nash in the hierarchy is still far more important historically than anything Dave managed to do.
I knew you would post some type of troll comment to my post and try to be a smartass. Did you missed the whole 2 pages of my comments that I posted previous to this post? Try fucking reading next time before posting and stop trying to troll for attention to get a response.
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