WCW Region, Fourth Round, TLC: (3) Triple H vs. (7) Ultimate Warrior

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the WCW Region. It is a Tables Ladders and Chairs Match. It will be held at Time Warner Cable Arena in Charlotte, North Carolina. Assume one week has passed since the second round match.

Tables Ladders and Chairs Match Rules: The match is contested under the same rules as a ladder match with a stuffed goat head above the ring. The first person to climb a ladder and retrieve the goat head wins. The usage of tables, ladders and chairs to injure your opponent is legal and encourages.

#3. Triple H

Vs.

#7. Ultimate Warrior

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm going with Warrior. Off the top of my head I can only think of 3 matches that he lost by pin or submission. Obviously neither of those matter in this match, but if the all time greats in this business struggled to keep Warrior down for a three count then what is going to keep him down for the time it takes to climb a ladder? Warrior has taken a pedigree and gotten right back up. He has taken a chair shot and not been affected. He took five elbow drops from Randy Savage and that couldn't keep him down for a three count. Triple H is as vicious as they come and has won his fair share of gimmick matches, but he has also lost quite a few as well.

And to debunk any possible "Warrior can't climb" arguments, he has been in cage matches and has been able to climb out with ease.

Go to the 5:25 mark
[YOUTUBE]SfB46sAETH8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The only time we saw these two go at it was at WrestleMania XII during a time in which Trips was being punished and was in the doghouse due to joining HBK in hugging Scott Hall & Kevin Nash on their last night before going to WCW. Warrior squashed Hunter.

However, this was 1996, still several years before Triple H really became a top marquee star in WWE. This was long before he became The Game and The Cerebral Assassin.

In this sort of environment, I'm going with Triple H. Warrior is someone whose true level of toughness has never really been seen or challenged. I can't really remember Warrior being in any street fights or ladder matches or chairs matches. We've seen Triple H in plenty of hardcore style matches and he's always done extremely well for himself.

That's not to say that I don't think Warrior has no chance. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've never been a fan of Warrior and I think Triple H is FAR superior overall. But that doesn't change the fact that Warrior was a huge star and a top draw back in his day. If Warrior moves on here I'm not going to complain about it as there are legit reasons to vote for him.

But, as I said, Warrior is someone really untested in these sorts of environments. If Warrior was against Mick Foley, I'd have no doubt of Warrior going over because Foley almost always lost big hardcore matches to huge stars.

 

[PsychoBlack]

HHH won the greatest ladder match of all time. HHH has been in some of the most brutal gimmick matches their is. Warrior was a great talent, I just don't think he would have the mean side of him to keep up with the Game. HHH made a career of defeating the top faces in the company and that's exactly what Warrior was.

Vote HHH

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

HHH won the greatest ladder match of all time. HHH has been in some of the most brutal gimmick matches their is. Warrior was a great talent, I just don't think he would have the mean side of him to keep up with the Game. HHH made a career of defeating the top faces in the company and that's exactly what Warrior was.

Vote HHH

The one against The Rock? One of the greatest but not THE greatest.

I have to use a substitute in Batista for Warrior. The whole powerhouse schtick but there are relevant differences but for the sake of this argument how well did Hunter do against Dave? Not well at all. He was Batista's bitch more or less.

Jacky H is right. Warrior is just so untested in this kinda environment. I would give it to Hunter slightly because he has been in these kinda matches, not TLC exactly, (he was in a TLC tag with HBK though).

Slight edge to HHH.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Warrior is extremely untested in gimmick matches. On the other hand, Triple H is perhaps as battle tested in gimmick matches as any.

As for ladders specifically...
On one end of Triple H's prime in 2002 he defeated HBK for the World Title in a 3 Stages of Hell Match that ended in a ladder match where Triple H was able to defeat one of the greatest ever after already competing in a Street Fight and Cage Match by knocking him off a ladder through a stack of tables before claiming the belt.

Then we can fast forward seven years later and Triple H and HBK were able to team up to defeat Jeri-Show, a team of multiple world champions riding a 5 month tag title reign, in a TLC match.

He also beat The Rock in a ladder match for the IC title in '98.

In fact, to the best of my knowledge, Triple H has never lost a ladder match of any type, while The Warrior has never even competed in one.

Triple H won more world titles than Warrior. He has also spent far more time as champion. And he has beaten the likes of The Rock, The Big Show, Chris Jericho, and HBK in ladder match variations(including TLC) all with titles on the line.

It seems that this match-up combined with this gimmick weighs heavily in Hunter's favor.

 

[Big Sexy]

One of the most overrated things in this part of the tournament is gimmick match experience. If you are a big, strong, nearly unbeatable superstar like Warrior, adding a gimmick and weapons to your arsenal is only going to make you better. It isn't hard to use weapons.

Here are some examples of gimmick experience being overrated: The first big one on one gimmick match Batista ever had was in a HIAC. His opponent was a prime Triple H who at the time had a 4-1 record in HIAC matches with the only loss being the 6 person HIAC at Armageddon in 2001. The winner of that match? Batista. Randy Orton's first gimmick match was his No Holds Barred match against the "Hardcore Legend" Mick Foley. Winner of that match? Orton. Brock Lesnar's first big gimmick match was a HIAC match against the Undertaker. Winner of that match? Lesnar. I think you all get the point. When you're a big star a gimmick match does nothing but add more excitement to a match/feud and allow the superstar going over to look stronger. Experience in those matches doesn't do much.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Both Warrior and Triple H can climb ladders so that's not even a factor to consider in this match. Both have similar builds but very contrasting styles. Warrior is a bulldozer in the ring whereas Triple H is cold and calculating, very advantageous in this kind of environment. I don't recall Warrior ever losing a gimmick match whether it was a cage match, no disqualification or bodybag match, in essence Warrior excels in gimmick matches.

All in all I gotta go with dominance in Ultimate Warrior. He's got the tools to put anyone away, has put anyone in front of him down, often quickly and efficiently and no matter what Triple H does to Warrior he isn't keeping the guy down long enough to climb the ladder and retrieve the *checks it out*.... goat head? Well doesn't matter I don't know if anyone can keep Warrior down long enough to walk up a ladder and win this thing so I gotta give it to Warrior, at least its been proven Triple H can stay down with enough punishment.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

One of the most overrated things in this part of the tournament is gimmick match experience. If you are a big, strong, nearly unbeatable superstar like Warrior, adding a gimmick and weapons to your arsenal is only going to make you better. It isn't hard to use weapons.

Here are some examples of gimmick experience being overrated: The first big one on one gimmick match Batista ever had was in a HIAC. His opponent was a prime Triple H who at the time had a 4-1 record in HIAC matches with the only loss being the 6 person HIAC at Armageddon in 2001. The winner of that match? Batista. Randy Orton's first gimmick match was his No Holds Barred match against the "Hardcore Legend" Mick Foley. Winner of that match? Orton. Brock Lesnar's first big gimmick match was a HIAC match against the Undertaker. Winner of that match? Lesnar. I think you all get the point. When you're a big star a gimmick match does nothing but add more excitement to a match/feud and allow the superstar going over to look stronger. Experience in those matches doesn't do much.

Although I get your point, I wholeheartedly disagree with your examples.

Batista/HHH - Batista had just won the strap was pretty popular, he needed this match to solidify and bring an end to his feud with Hunter.

Orton/Foley - Was this in 2005? Ye everything Foley did after 2000 was put people over.

Lesnar/Taker - See Batista/HHH


If we go by your logic, Warrior, Hogans would more or less all these WZTs but I feel Hunter has more experience in the 'hardcore' sector. I see Warrior destroying Hunter after.


P.S - Has anyone notice there's a friggin' stuffed goat head at the top of the ladder!?

 

[Big Sexy]

Batista/HHH - Batista had just won the strap was pretty popular, he needed this match to solidify and bring an end to his feud with Hunter.

Orton/Foley - Was this in 2005? Ye everything Foley did after 2000 was put people over.

Lesnar/Taker - See Batista/HHH

You can't bring booking into the equation with those examples. If we're going to do that then I can take every big win Triple H has ever had and say that they only occurred because it made sense booking wise. My point and examples proving my point stand. Gimmick match experience is overrated.

If we go by your logic, Warrior, Hogans would more or less all these WZTs

Yet neither Warrior nor Hogan has ever won a WZT. The fact that Hogan has never won this tournament even once is laughable and shows that maybe it's everyone else who is using the wrong logic.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

You can't bring booking into the equation with those examples. If we're going to do that then I can take every big win Triple H has ever had and say that they only occurred because it made sense booking wise. My point and examples proving my point stand. Gimmick match experience is overrated.

I am drawing attention to the fact that it wouldn't be prudent to bring forth those examples, without also saying how their results were foregone conclusions.

Here's what I mean - Foley was a hardcore legend for some time but really hit his peak in 99-00. I will consider Hunter's win over Foley as Hunter's greatest Hardcore victory. Because A) Although Foley was trying to retire, he was still over to a good extent B) He was in his proverbial prime and Hunter beat him clean.

An over-the-hill Foley rubbing Edge and Orton wouldn't hold up.

Yet neither Warrior nor Hogan has ever won a WZT. The fact that Hogan has never won this tournament even once is laughable and shows that maybe it's everyone else who is using the wrong logic.

Rock went down to El Santo. It was like the draw generator threw up Mexico and International Region just to test our man-crush on Dwayne.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I am torn here because, yes Triple H did put over the Warrioresque Batista three times but, at the same time, he (ultimately) overcame the, also, comparable Goldberg...

In the end, I've decided that Trip's deserves the victory because Warrior's defeats always came through being out thought and Triple H isn't called the cerebral assassin for nothing (in fact, his losses to Batista could be attributed to big Dave having been part of his inner sanctum for so long).

 

[HBsam31]

I have been a Warrior supporter through out this tournament, but I think he met his match here. This wouldn't be 1996 HHH, and Warrior is indeed untested in this type of environment. HHH has won many matches like this, and there is no one tougher in his prime. This would be an extremely hard fought contest, but the experience of HHH would be Warriors downfall. I have to give this one to HHH.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Going to go with HHH, HHH is known as one of the toughest brawlers of the last 20 years, and has had the hardcore matches to prove it, including this week's win over Brock Lesnar, a man who's just as genetically gifted but more athletic than Ultimate Warrior.

All hail the King of Kings.

 

[Big Sexy]

I am torn here because, yes Triple H did put over the Warrioresque Batista three times but, at the same time, he (ultimately) overcame the, also, comparable Goldberg...

Triple H was always dominated by Goldberg. The only reason he was able to beat him a couple times was because of the outside interference he got from Evolution. In this tournament Flair, Orton, and Batista are all participants and considered to be in their prime which means there's no Evolution to interfere. The fact that Triple H has struggled against superstars similar to Warrior is a big point for Warrior.

 

[Dirk]

If it's TLC, you can bet your sweet ass that there'll be a sledgehammer hidden somewhere and that's why Trips will take this one. He's always booked as an ultimate brawler and the dirtier, the better.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Triple H was always dominated by Goldberg. The only reason he was able to beat him a couple times was because of the outside interference he got from Evolution. In this tournament Flair, Orton, and Batista are all participants and considered to be in their prime which means there's no Evolution to interfere. The fact that Triple H has struggled against superstars similar to Warrior is a big point for Warrior.

Maybe so but he has always overcame the faces until Batista came along, whether through outside interference, a weapon et cetera. When Warrior did lose, it was via those exact causes... and a win is a win and a loss is a loss at the end of the day. With the exception of Batista who knew his mind's workings the Cerebral Assassin overcame, I just don't think Warrior has the smarts to overcome him.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Ultimate Warrior in a hard-fought, bloody match-up.

Many will say that HHH has had more experience in these types of matches, and some of his better matches are in an environment where the Game's been able to use chairs or ladders to his advantage.

The thing about Warrior is that in his prime, NOBODY could beat him. We're talking about guys like Randy Savage, Undertaker, and most importantly, HULK HOGAN! The man got a clean pin on Hogan at Wrestlemania while Hulkamania was still running wild.

And by that logic, HHH lost to Hulk Hogan just a few years ago... this was a Hogan that was past his prime by quite a few years and HHH was still near the top of his game.

It'll be chaotic, and lots of brutality will take place, but Warrior's not one to be subdued for very long...at least not long enough to let HHH pin and grab the goat head.

I'll give this to Warrior, but won't gripe about HHH going over either.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I have been supporting The Game throughout this tournament and there is nothing here that makes me change my mind.

I know Warrior squashed HHH the time they did meet, but that was a Triple H nowhere near his prime yet. Give it a few years and Trips would have come away with the victory.

Warrior would put up a good challenge here, he is one crazy son of a bitch and add weapons to the mix and he is definitely a formidable foe. However, Triple H has beaten the best in gimmick matches with weapons, and I don't see that changing here.

Helmsley would use his superior intelligence (he ain't the Cerebral Assasin for nothin') to get an advantage here, and is far more sadistic when he needs to be. He would definitely find a way to get his trusty sledgehammer involved here and would destroy Warrior with it- whether its a shot to the spine while Warrior is climbing the ladder, or repeated shots with it if Warrior is tied up in the ropes. The sledgehammer then Pedigree will keep Warrior down long enough for Triple H to climb the ladder.

Winner: Triple H

 

[jmt225]

I love The Ultimate Warrior and despise HHH, but let's be real here... HHH takes this.

HHH is perhaps the greatest gimmick wrestler in WWE history. He lives for these kinds of matches and finds a way to win them the majority of the time. The guy is called the Cerebral Assassin for a reason.

Warrior is a beast no doubt, but this isn't his element. At all. He had one good cage match against Rick Rude... okay? He's still the guy who gets knocked out by Randy Savage's scepter. How is he going to be able to take HHH's sledgehammer and all the other diabolical weapons HHH will use to punish him? He won't be able to; Warrior just not used to that kind of stuff like HHH is.

Lastly, I'd personally take Warrior's three year prime over anything HHH has done his entire career, but still, HHH's legacy and accomplishments cannot be downplayed, no matter how much I feel the guy didn't deserve the pushes he received passed 2002. Those accomplishments still exist and his legacy will no doubt go down as one of the most successful wrestlers in history. Warrior's legacy is that of a joke. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is. HHH deserves to go past a guy like him when you take everything into account, including the match itself.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Warrior wins because he is a spaceship filled with rocket fuel and would simply blast off and grab KB's fetish goat head.

Not to mention that Warrior is a little messed in the head, and is openly anti-gay, and we have seen Triple H hug fellow kliq members numerous times and he has built a career on telling other men to suck it, so in Warrior's warped mind he assumes Trips is trying to spread his ungodly agenda and shoots on him.

 

[deem]

I'm happy Warrior's made it this far. While voting in kayfabe, he absolutely deserves to be one of the most dangerous participants in this tournament. I don't think I'm quite done with him yet, but this is the first stage I can realistically see him losing so far in the tournament. Not certain which way I'm voting.

I'll instantly say HHH historically suffers against the Warrior type. Batista is probably THE guy that has caused HHH most problems in his prime. The Goldberg feud only lasted 6 months, but he's a name that must be considered too. I'll refer to a really good post earlier in the thread;

Maybe so but he has always overcame the faces until Batista came along, whether through outside interference, a weapon et cetera. When Warrior did lose, it was via those exact causes... and a win is a win and a loss is a loss at the end of the day. With the exception of Batista who knew his mind's workings the Cerebral Assassin overcame, I just don't think Warrior has the smarts to overcome him.

Obviously it's hard to analyse why Batista was the guy that got the better of Trips. Maybe because he knew what to expect from Evolution days, as you cleverly allude to. It's possible that he was just too damn powerful and explosive though. Find a more similar guy to Warrior that HHH faced during his time.

Still, this is most definitely a stipulation I can see HHH getting the win in. When Warrior's lost, it's via weapons or dastardly heel shenanigans, and Hunter has that in spades. In a regular match, I'd side with the unstoppable Warrior. Here, give me Helmsley I think. I'd sorta love Warrior to advance though.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

The fact that Triple H, during arguably the biggest push he would receive during his time in WWE, lost the undisputed WWE Title to Hogan after just a month shows me how much of a draw Triple H was comparative to others. Hogan...WAY past his prime, was given the strap instead of him. It would have been no different if Warrior was in Hogan's shoes. Well, he kind of was at Mania XII. He faced off against Triple H, an up and comer at the time who could have really benefited from the Warrior rub, but they gave it to Warrior.

Warrior wins this one, too.

 

[steve_smith]

Warrior was well past it when he SQUASHED triple H.

The guy never really lost. I can only remember him losing to Slaughter just so they could put the strap on Slaughter for the super anti-American heat during wartime.

I'm voting Warrior. Triple H is so over-rated. Although he was humping the bosses daughter, he still was never given the push that the Warrior got. Warrior was completely unbeatable for 3 years or so.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

The match type favors Triple H.

He's a smarter wrestler/fighter than Warrior, and also had dominant runs. Never as dominant as Warrior's best run, but still dominant. He's more sadistic, he's more calculating, etc.

Warrior can obviously climb a ladder and swing a chair, but the use of these tools favors HHH. Why? Because in a regular one on one match, I'm picking Warrior. I think HHH would fear Warrior in a regular match. In this match, he knows how to use what's around him (and his brain) to level the playing field.

This just isn't a match I see Warrior coming out of. This is the type of match I see some of Warrior's biggest enemies from his era winning as well (Savage, Rude) seeing they didn't stand a chance in a regular one on one match.

Warrior's dumb and inexperienced in this environment. HHH is the exact opposite.

I'm voting Hunter.