WCW Region, Fourth Round, Iron Man Match: (1) Steve Austin vs. (4) Lou Thesz

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the WCW Region. It is an Iron Man Match. It will be held at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta, Georgia.

Rules: The match is won by the competitor with the most falls in a sixty minute time limit. A fall is won by a pinfall, a submission, a countout or a disqualification.

#1. Steve Austin

Vs.

#4. Lou Thesz

​

This match takes place one week following the third round.

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Davi323]

I know we all love Steve Austin. Greatest Superstar in WWE History according to Vince McMahon, and I deeply suspect that Austin will win this vote because he is Stone Cold Steve Austin, and that's the bottom line.

But does anyone honestly think that in an iron man match against Lou Thesz that Stone Cold would legitimately stand a chance in hell? This is absolutely the wrong guy for Austin to have to face in this kind of match. Thesz routinely had 60 minute matches, this is just another day at the office for Lou Thesz. Don't vote just for the guy you like, making it nothing but a popularity contest. This isn't high school, and these guys aren't running for prom king. Vote for the guy that you think would actually win.

Vote Lou Thesz.

 

[Con T.]

So, are we all doing the polite thing, and waiting for Gelgarin to post before we say anything?

Well, I'm not so polite; never had an organized Thanksgiving, you see? And I'm going to steal his thunder by saying Thesz wins this, though I likely won't be able to articulate it nearly as well. I do promise to be more succinct, in saying that even without the Iron Man match, I'd likely vote Thesz. It isn't just because I believe in Thesz' ability to best Austin multiple times in this match. It isn't even because of the fact that Thesz is a comparable draw to Austin, without the added benefit of "Attitude" and such, or the backing of a worldwide empire. It isn't even because Austin took the liberty of naming his lil press the Lou Thesz Press. Nope, I have another reason to vote Thesz.

Dat. Knee. Brace.

To most men, Austin's knee brace is merely a weakness. Thesz licks his lips at the thought of that knee brace; he dreams at night of taking that knee brace, and contorting it in unimaginable ways. To Thesz, that knee brace means the death of Steve Austin... Err, at least the immobility of Stunning Steve. Steve may never tap, but he'll pass out in the STF. And then he'll do so again, and again, and again, and pretty soon, try as he might, that knee brace will be his undoing.

Course, there are plenty of reasons you should vote Thesz. Mine's really one of many

 

[Gelgarin]

I'm not even sure that I need to post at this point; you all know what I'm going to say, and if you're capable of understanding one of my posts then odds are you'll be voting for Lou Thesz anyway on account of you not being an idiot.

Lou Thesz goes over Stone Cold in an iron man match.

Let's look at the specifics of a 60 minute iron man for a minute.

For one, the match is the most cardio intensive content is the whole of professional wrestling. Sixty minutes is insane, and you need to be a machine to simply survive that long in the ring. When it comes to cardio I'm awarding the points to the guy who used to wrestle for sixty minutes on a regular basis. Lou Thesz had regular 60 minute matches against the likes of Gagne, Rogers, Rocca, Carpenter, O'Connor and every other big name from his generation and managed to go for four years without losing a match.
Stone Cold was never famous for his cardio, and almost never wrestled for longer than twenty minutes. There is simply no interpretation of the facts that enables Steve Austin to compete with Lou Thesz in this kind of content.

There's also the fact of multiple falls. You might brush this off, but being able to survive over multiple falls is a valuable skill, and one that Lou Thesz has shown on a regular basis. During Thesz's ten years as a world champion the belt was always defended in a three fall environment. Lou Thesz has much more experience of getting back up after the fall has been declared.

Then of course you have to consider how a iron man match works. Unless it is presented in a disqualification free environment (which this content is not) then the match invariably comes down to mat wrestling. Mat wrestling... are you fucking kidding me? Stone Cold had little to no prowess on the mat at the best of times, and he's going against the greatest ring technician in the entire history of professional wrestling. Anyone who even thinks that Stone Cold has a chance on this front is utterly deluded and probably harbours inappropriate feelings about caribou.

Austin is a better brawler, but he doesn't have the stamina to brawl for sisty minutes. Lou Thesz is the better technician, and he's been known to go at it for two hours at a time.

Then there's the question of resilience. In their day both men were pretty hard to defeat, although Stone Cold never managed to be world champion for four straight years. Austin was tough to put down, but he was never unbeatable like people with rose tinted vision remember. He lost to Undertaker, he lost to Kane he lost to Mankind, he lost to HHH and he lost to Kurt Angle. Actually Angle presents us with an example worthy of further study. If you look and Stone Cold's career he has very little experience of fighting technical wrestlers, the only two I am able to bring to mind being Kurt Angle and Bret Hart, both of whom managed to defeat Steve Austin using leg submissions.

Which brings me on to the already visited topic of Stone Cold's crappy legs. They sucked. The man had knee injuries all though his career. We've already established that those knees were vulnerable to submission holds. Now; riddle me this: Lou Thesz is famous for inventing a submission hold that targeted which part of the body? If you said 'the legs' then congratulations, you win.
Lou Thesz invented the original STF, a step-over toe hold which which he acquired more submissions that Steve Austin wrestled matches. In later years he adapted the hold to also target the neck. Which part of Stone Cold was in ever worse condition than his knees? You guessed it, his neck.

But right now I can hear the braying masses queueing up to spout their drivel about Stone Cold not tapping out. I mean, obviously he tapped out several times before, but none of those count because of magic. Well even that we accept that Stone Cold is too heroic to submit, we already know that he's also stupid enough to let himself pass out from a submission hold. You let that happen in an iron man match and that's it, game over. Austin was famous for being stupid for pretty much his entire run, whilst Lou Thesz had a reputation for being one of the smartest men in the industry. Yet another advantage to Lou Thesz.

Another factor that helps Lou Thesz in this match is the fact that Lou Thesz never felt the need to beat his wife. I haven't quite figured out how this wins him the match yet, but I'm working on it. Lou Thesz was a consummate professional in all things, whilst Stone Cold was an intergalactic sized cunt. The best chance he has of avoiding defeat is if he refuses to show up, as he was prone to do.

Then there's the question of legacy. You can't deny Stone Cold's significance. After all, he was the centrepiece of the worst period in professional wrestling history, but if you're an attitude era fanboy then Austin is your man. Then again, without Lou Thesz there probably wouldn't have been a global pro wrestling industry for the Attitude Era to soil. It's a toss up here. Lou Thesz was far more significant and achieved far more, but he did have the advantage of coming first. Would Austin have achieved as much in Thesz's shoes? No chance, he'd have had his wrist broken by Karl Gotch on day one as a punishment for being a twat.

If you think I'm getting overly tangential at this point then rest assured that you're not the only one. Gelgarin has been awake for over 24 hours, but you fuckers seemed disinclined to wait around for me to post, so I'm having to bash this out at record speeds.

So why does Lou Thesz win? Because it's an iron man match. Austin can't brawl for that long and he can't use weapons. The iron man match will come down to technical prowess and Stone Cold will get fucking massacred. Do the right thing and vote for Lou Thesz.

 

[shattered dreams]

Austin had the hottest short-term prime in all of prowrestling history. This match is one of those interesting cases where you have the guy who was the best for a shorter amount of time against a guy who was good for a long time. You could probably make a good case that Thesz had a better career but I think it pretty much ends there.

Here is the reverse spin of some of Gelgarin's info. Yes, Thesz would wrestle longer matches but how many of those matches were draws? Not sure how going 60 without scoring a pinfall against lesser opponents than Austin helps the case for Thesz here. I don't think anyone would deny that Austin was better at winning matches quicker. Austin is almost assuredly going to take a significant early lead in this match. Then it is up to Thesz to make a comeback. Will that happen? Well, we see a lot made out of his submission ability. In Austin's prime he went 4 years without submitting. As such I don't find it credible that Thesz is going to start submitting Austin multiple times easily. Furthermore, it isn't like Thesz doesn't tire himself. A tired Thesz isn't kicking out of any stunners and it isn't like that is a hard move for Austin to pull off even if he is at a conditioning disadvantage.

Besides, I don't think I have ever seen a Thesz t-shirt. Everyone knows in a modern wrestling company t-shirts win matches.

 

[Tastycles]

Given the fact that Thesz had as hot a streak as Austin, was as comparatively popular, regularly wrestled longer than 60 minutes (and in matches where you had to get two falls, more often than not), had more ways of winning matches, and less obvious weaknesses to exploit (neck, knee etc.) I think Thesz wins, and so should you.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I see this being very close and Austin taking an early lead of sorts. That being said, Austin has had his set of brutal matches. I'll have to google to find what his longest match timespan was but I have no doubt Austin would train fucking hard for this match.


Thesz for all his marvel, would come up short. I very much see this as Shawn vs Kurt's 30 minute Ironman Match and I do think, Austin will just take this.




Austin for me.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

There are just a few things I want to talk about. I have still not decided who to vote for yet but I do not agree with a few arguments that have been made for Thesz.

1. The neck injury

See, we all know Austin had a neck injury in real life. However, that neck injury did not exist in kayfabe, at least not for a long while. Austin was injured at SummerSlam 1997 but when he returned to the ring at Survivor Series, he was supposed to have fully healed from that injury. Thereafter, he took a break in late 1999 for surgery due to that injury but in the world of kayfabe he was recovering from being run down by a car.

Point being if you are keeping things kayfabe, you cannot say that Thesz would exploit Austin's neck injury because he had no injury there at all.

2. Supposed poor record against technical wrestlers

Actually Angle presents us with an example worthy of further study. If you look and Stone Cold's career he has very little experience of fighting technical wrestlers, the only two I am able to bring to mind being Kurt Angle and Bret Hart, both of whom managed to defeat Steve Austin using leg submissions.

What you are obviously forgetting is that Austin was never defeated by Chris Benoit in a singles match( he had both leg and neck submissions) and has a winning record against Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle. He was only defeated by Hart before he hit his prime.

3. Ironman and Austin's technical skills

Then of course you have to consider how a iron man match works. Unless it is presented in a disqualification free environment (which this content is not) then the match invariably comes down to mat wrestling. Mat wrestling... are you fucking kidding me? Stone Cold had little to no prowess on the mat at the best of times, and he's going against the greatest ring technician in the entire history of professional wrestling

It is not as if you need to be a technical genius to win an iron man match. John Cena and Triple H both guys who are known more for their brawling than for their technical skills. Hell, Shawn Michaels won the first Iron Man match against a superior technician in Bret Hart. So being a superior technician does not neccesarily guarantee you a victory in this sort of a match-up.

Also, it is not as if Austin had no technical skills. Very often, he would surprise opponents with his technical knowledge. I present to you the following videos.

[YOUTUBE]3X6WFRUw9nU[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]isPBbety2dY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]eyR_FAYX3gU[/YOUTUBE]

In fact, this has been a feature of most of Austin's matches with any good mat wrestler like Benoit and Angle or even Ric Flair later on. He often surprised these men with his mat wrestling prowess.

4. Austin was "stupid".

Austin was famous for being stupid for pretty much his entire run, whilst Lou Thesz had a reputation for being one of the smartest men in the industry

Yeah, I would like some examples from you. Austin was the guy who outsmarted his evil, powerful and scheming boss day in and day out. I'd say just based on that that he had the brain cells in the right place.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I see this being very close and Austin taking an early lead of sorts. That being said, Austin has had his set of brutal matches. I'll have to google to find what his longest match timespan was but I have no doubt Austin would train fucking hard for this match.

Austin for me.

The longest he has lasted in a match has been just over 45 minutes in the 1997 Royal Rumble which he won. He also went 40 minutes with HHH at No Way Out 2001. I think he had a few long ones in WCW too. I think he can go long and I cannot see how the fact that he got quick wins can be a point against him especially when Thesz often ended up with zero falls at the end of 60 minutes.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Hate to do this, but Austin's poor experience in wrestling as long a m atch as this is definitely going to come into. But this is a great video of Austin in what you might call him 'in ring' prime, going up against a still very game Stinger in WCW, around 95-ish I think:

[YOUTUBE]SwvvhIO6C94&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]

This is a video I used last year unsuccessfully to get Sting over Stone Cold in the final but either way, obviously what I want you to pay attention to the fact that this match lasts somewhere in the region of 15 minutes (the first half is 7 and a half minutes and I think there's an advert break in there too), and more importantly just listen and watch how blown up Austin is after this mid-length match.

So as I said, Austin is about 30 here and obviously just wasn't used to wrestling for that long. Well if he finds that arduous, how is he going to cope against someone who regularly went four times as long, unlike Sting, and would specialize in matches like this where he can fully exploit his weak points. I'm not aware of what issues Thesz had, but I'd be surprised if he had targets as big as the knee and neck of Austin.

I think you should vote Thesz, and I don't care about Thesz.

 

[JGlass]

I see this being very close and Austin taking an early lead of sorts. That being said, Austin has had his set of brutal matches. I'll have to google to find what his longest match timespan was but I have no doubt Austin would train fucking hard for this match.

Do you have brain damage or something? You come up with the silliest things to say, but not haha silly, more like "Does this guy have brain damage?" silly.

Stone Cold Steve Austin train? His whole gimmick basically boils down to the fact that he doesn't give a single fuck. Not one fuck. Ever. The idea of him training for an opponent is laughable. He's just going to come to the ring all pissed off, maybe a little drunk, and do what he does best: pummel his opponent.

Of course, it won't work here, as Thesz could change any brawling moron into a sniveling child with vastly superior wrestling ability. Quite frankly, seeing Steve Austin cry in the middle of the ring would be a big ol' laugh.

Thesz for all his marvel, would come up short. I very much see this as Shawn vs Kurt's 30 minute Ironman Match and I do think, Austin will just take this.

Hmmm, good reasoning. I like that example you gave of... HBK and Kurt Angle.

But here's the reality of the situation: Steve Austin, at his best, was famous for arriving, raising hell, and leaving. He didn't have to come in and wrestle a match against one of the greatest wrestlers in the history of the sport worldwide, he just had to arrive, piss some people off, maybe throw a few punches, hit a Stone Cold Stunner, and leave after a few beers.

He can't grab a few beers and leave after 10-20 minutes of an Iron Man match. He needs to stay for another 40, at which point his brawling style is going to get him gassed. Meanwhile, you have a pure example of superior technical wrestling staring at you from across the ring, or more specifically at your knee brace. He is going to make that thing into twisted metal for the next 40 minutes, and will make sure Steve Austin taps the mat so hard that he breaks his hand too.

Austin is outclassed here in every way. Thesz is the vastly superior wrestler, and this is his type of match.

Vote Thesz.

 

[The Wrestling God]

Here is my take on the fact that this is an Iron Man Match.

This is not a 60 minute match that goes 60 minutes then goes to the judges score card for who was the most technically dominant like an MMA decision, it is who gets the most pin falls, submissions, count outs or least dq's.

Austin was known as stated to Arrive, Raise Hell Leave. Resulting in quick pin falls and could be done quickly every time Thesz gets up. In one of Austins most famous matches he was going against another great technical wrestler in Bret Hart, and yes Bret won, but Austin never submitted preferring to pass out from the pain meaning he can not be counted on to tap out. And an Austin in his prime was more agile and quicker then Thesz

So yes Thesz has the better conditioning to go the 60 minutes but Austin's Style, Skill, Tenacity, and Toughness more then make up for in a match where it is the number of times you can win in 60 minutes not being able to just prove you can go for 60 minutes.

In Conclusion: Vote Austin

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Here is my take on the fact that this is an Iron Man Match.

This is not a 60 minute match that goes 60 minutes then goes to the judges score card for who was the most technically dominant like an MMA decision, it is who gets the most pin falls, submissions, count outs or least dq's.

Austin was known as stated to Arrive, Raise Hell Leave. Resulting in quick pin falls and could be done quickly every time Thesz gets up. In one of Austins most famous matches he was going against another great technical wrestler in Bret Hart, and yes Bret won, but Austin never submitted preferring to pass out from the pain meaning he can not be counted on to tap out. And an Austin in his prime was more agile and quicker then Thesz

So yes Thesz has the better conditioning to go the 60 minutes but Austin's Style, Skill, Tenacity, and Toughness more then make up for in a match where it is the number of times you can win in 60 minutes not being able to just prove you can go for 60 minutes.

In Conclusion: Vote Austin

1. He may not be counted on to tap out but if that scenario happened in this match, Austin will lose a fall.

2. How in the hell does agility and quickness have to do with this match? Is or has Austin flown around the ring like Mysterio? No. Thesz will catch him and when he does, it will be fun to see. I don't see Thesz submitting which I've seen Austin do and the Stunner is all he has. He's not going to hit it repeatedly on Thesz.

 

[Gelgarin]

Let the record show that thus far everyone seriously endorsing Stone Cold has been a fucking idiot, both in the context of their post and in general. When Rattlesnake is the most vocal defender of your cause you know you're not on to a winner. Make of that what you will.

A few particular gems that I would like to fish out:

Here is my take on the fact that this is an Iron Man Match.

This is not a 60 minute match that goes 60 minutes then goes to the judges score card for who was the most technically dominant like an MMA decision, it is who gets the most pin falls, submissions, count outs or least dq's.

Austin was known as stated to Arrive, Raise Hell Leave. Resulting in quick pin falls and could be done quickly every time Thesz gets up. In one of Austins most famous matches he was going against another great technical wrestler in Bret Hart, and yes Bret won, but Austin never submitted preferring to pass out from the pain meaning he can not be counted on to tap out. And an Austin in his prime was more agile and quicker then Thesz

So yes Thesz has the better conditioning to go the 60 minutes but Austin's Style, Skill, Tenacity, and Toughness more then make up for in a match where it is the number of times you can win in 60 minutes not being able to just prove you can go for 60 minutes.

In Conclusion: Vote Austin

You are a buffoon; stop trying to join in when you know nothing about Lou Thesz. Tell me which of Lou Thesz's high profile matches were decided by a judges decision. Answer: none of them, they were determined by pinfall or submission just like Stone Cold's.

And the fact that you're bringing up a match that Stone Cold not only lost, but was stupid enough to get himself totally incapacitated in, as evidence for him winning this match shows you to be a total idiot. Stone Cold got destroyed by a technical wrestler, therefore he's going to go over a superior technical wrestler. Tool.

As for your claim that Austin was more agile and quicker than Lou Thesz; do you even know who Lou Thesz was? No you don't, because you are a fucking moron. Lou Thesz moved around the ring like a damn snake and was considerably faster than Austin with his two functionless knees. You'd know this if you'd ever watched Lou Thesz compete, but you haven't.

See, we all know Austin had a neck injury in real life. However, that neck injury did not exist in kayfabe, at least not for a long while. Austin was injured at SummerSlam 1997 but when he returned to the ring at Survivor Series, he was supposed to have fully healed from that injury. Thereafter, he took a break in late 1999 for surgery due to that injury but in the world of kayfabe he was recovering from being run down by a car.

And yet the neck injury was brought up numerous times in future matches. As such it existed in kayfabe as well as real life.

What you are obviously forgetting is that Austin was never defeated by Chris Benoit in a singles match( he had both leg and neck submissions) and has a winning record against Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle. He was only defeated by Hart before he hit his prime.

Seriously? Stone Cold defeated Chris Benoit therefore he goes over Lou Thesz? Where do we find these people?

The longest he has lasted in a match has been just over 45 minutes in the 1997 Royal Rumble which he won. He also went 40 minutes with HHH at No Way Out 2001. I think he had a few long ones in WCW too. I think he can go long and I cannot see how the fact that he got quick wins can be a point against him especially when Thesz often ended up with zero falls at the end of 60 minutes.

Really? Perhaps you could name some of those matches where Thesz went sixty minutes without winning a fall. You claim it happened often, so you must be able to bring up a few examples. Otherwise you'd be "gasp" taking about something you don't have a fucking clue about.

In fact, this has been a feature of most of Austin's matches with any good mat wrestler like Benoit and Angle or even Ric Flair later on. He often surprised these men with his mat wrestling prowess.

So let me get this straight... you are legitimately arguing that Stone Cold could go hold for hold with Lou Thesz, the greatest mat wrestler of all time.

Anyone think I even need to address that?

Anyone?

Yeah, I would like some examples from you. Austin was the guy who outsmarted his evil, powerful and scheming boss day in and day out. I'd say just based on that that he had the brain cells in the right place.

Austin was stupid enough to pass out in a submission hold that he couldn't break.

Austin was stupid enough to lose a fucking Royal Rumble to Vince McMahon. To expand on this; throughout his entire career Stone Cold suffered from possibly the worst focus of any performer in wrestling history. He was constantly falling for distractions and victim to interference. He couldn't keep his mind on the job at the best of times, let alone for 60 minutes.

Austin was dumb enough to lose a ladder match against a pair of none wrestlers; once again because of his inability to focus.

Do I really need to keep sifting through his career? We haven't even gotten to the Alliance yet.

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Don't give stupid reasons for austin. Technically thesz has his name written all over it.You know very well if it were to happen in reality austin would never win,if you want ask austin that,he'll say the same. I get it,austin wrestled in our time,where most of us never seen thesz. Vote austin for being wrestler of your time,not for baseless reasons.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

And yet the neck injury was brought up numerous times in future matches. As such it existed in kayfabe as well as real life.

Well, yes it happened, so why would it not be brought up? Austin also healed from it by Survivor Series. JR also talked at times about his neck surgery during the time he was run down by a car. But off the top of my head, I cannot recall any match in which the announcers specifically mentioned that Austin's neck was weak and an area that his opponent could exploit.

Seriously? Stone Cold defeated Chris Benoit therefore he goes over Lou Thesz?

And Kurt Angle too you know. The guy whom you used to prove that Thesz would win against Austin.

So let me get this straight... you are legitimately arguing that Stone Cold could go hold for hold with Lou Thesz, the greatest mat wrestler of all time.

I'm just stating that what you stated about Austin having no mat skills is wrong. Furthermore, as I stated, you do not need mat skills to win this match.

Austin was stupid enough to pass out in a submission hold that he couldn't break.

He really wanted to win the match and so he kept trying to break the hold and nearly succeeded. What is so stupid about it? The fact that Austin was trying to win the match?

Austin was stupid enough to lose a fucking Royal Rumble to Vince McMahon. To expand on this; throughout his entire career Stone Cold suffered from possibly the worst focus of any performer in wrestling history. He was constantly falling for distractions and victim to interference. He couldn't keep his mind on the job at the best of times, let alone for 60 minutes.

One in which there was a bounty on his head and he still performed well enough to be a runner up. Also what is the objective of a Royal Rumble match? To get a title shot at WrestleMania. Who got the title shot at WrestleMania that year? Austin.

Also, most wrestlers get distracted by interference. Not really a sign of extreme stupidity. Tell us, has Lou Thesz overcome interferences at any point in his career so that we can compare?

Austin was dumb enough to lose a ladder match against a pair of none wrestlers; once again because of his inability to focus.

Oh yeah, the one in which some other guy ran in to grab the briefcase. He lost more because of the handicap than his "stupidity."

Also, as a result of being a CEO in that storyline, Austin was actually able to win back the belt and also have his way with McMahon by adding a rule that he could assault Vince anywhere. Does not sound like the work of a dumb human being.

 

[Shocky]

Steve Austin has wrestled one, one on one, match that went 45 minutes, that's it that I remember. Oh, that's also a match that he happened to lose. Why in the hell do people think he could match up with a man that wrestled hour long matches routinely, rarely lost, and was the biggest draw of his day?

Steve Austin is simply outmatch here. I've read it before, he's the Arrive, Raise Hell, and Leave guy. That's fucking awesome. So awesome in fact, it works against him in every way possible. Steve Austin was all go, all the time. The dude would burn out if he wrestled the pace he wanted to wrestle. Steve Austin is not known for his cardio or his endurance.

Lou Thesz would pick Steve Austin apart. That wreckless, brawling style would be enough to get some separation early, but Thesz would ultimately wait for Austin to breakdown, pick him apart, and move onto the next round.

 

[Gelgarin]

I like the way you totally ignored me challenging you on the information you were making up about Lou Thesz's record. Just admit your ignorance; I'm the only one who's going to think less of you, and I think that you're a moron to begin with.

And Kurt Angle too you know. The guy whom you used to prove that Thesz would win against Austin.

You mean the guy who made Stone Cold tap out with a leg submission?

He really wanted to win the match and so he kept trying to break the hold and nearly succeeded. What is so stupid about it? The fact that Austin was trying to win the match?

The fact that Austin was failing to win the match. He was unable to break the submission, but instead of simply tapping out and saving himself some pain he decided to keep fighting; the only thing he achieved was to get himself hurt worse. Now tell me, are you honestly stupid enough that you cannot see how that kind of poor decision making is going to hurt you in an iron man match?

Lou Thesz slaps on a submission, Stone Cold "really wants to win the match" and is therefore too stupid to tap out, the end result being that his injured leg gets worked over until Austin literally passes out from the pain. An already injured limb getting worked over for several minutes by the most talented mat wrestler of all time... Austin is going to be struggling to walk if he shows that kind of idiocy in this match.

One in which there was a bounty on his head and he still performed well enough to be a runner up. Also what is the objective of a Royal Rumble match? To get a title shot at WrestleMania. Who got the title shot at WrestleMania that year? Austin.

So because the commissioner handed Austin a Wrestlemania match that proves that he wasn't stupid for allowing Vince McMahon to eliminate him from a Royal Rumble. There's being a deluded fanboy, and then there's this. Stone Cold had the Royal Rumble won, he was alone on the ring with a none wrestler who had been laid out. All he had to do was toss him over the top rope, and instead he decided to let himself get distracted... and you claim he doesn't have poor intelligence. Next you'll be claiming that Austin's propensity towards wife beating don't make him a cunt.

Also, most wrestlers get distracted by interference. Not really a sign of extreme stupidity. Tell us, has Lou Thesz overcome interferences at any point in his career so that we can compare?

Yes.

Now you tell me; what were all those 60 minute matches in which Lou Thesz didn't score a single fall that you brought up last post?

 

[nightmare]

Still not comfortable making a decision yet but this needs to be said.


What makes you think Austin wouldnt sacrifice a fall by DQ just to beat the hell out of Thesz with a chair to weaken him up or take out a limb? A weakened or injured Thesz is less effective and Austin is smart enough to know that.


Thesz will get his fair share of falls and Austin will have a problem with keeping Thesz off his leg. He will grab it and twist it until Austin screams and passes out. I think after the falls are tied 2-2 and Austin is hurting- he will grab a chair and go to town. This would cause a DQ but also cause Thesz to be injured just as well. That gives Austin a more level playing field to even the score again and cause Thesz some trouble in the long run of the match.


Problem is I just dont know what happens after that. Both men are dangerous and can sneak in a fall with no problem, but the other would respond in turn. The stunner is just as capable of scoring a quick fall as Thesz applying the STF. The STF would cause a problem for Austin to stand for the stunner afterward, but a chair barrage to Thesz would hurt just how strongly Thesz could apply the STF afterward as well.


This is tough. I just am not sure how this would play out. Both would be beaten and bruised but I just dont know. Both are tough as nails, both are quick in their own right and both men can pull off submission holds and score quick pins. Austin has stamina, but not as much as Thesz. He might outlast Austin in the cardio department, but Steve can still be dangerous after a good beating.


Ahhhhhh....... I need more research and to watch some matches before I make a decision. I need to see more from both men on how they handle situations after a long battle. Anyone have some good footage I should see or try to find?

 

[thatotherguy]

Normally I have a deep seated hatred for Gelgarin for being completely and utterly blindly pro old school. In this case though, I implore everyone, to read Gelgarin's post. Because he's just right.

Thesz is a legend from a time in which big matches would often go 40-60 minutes. Austin is a legend from a time in which big matches sometimes went 20 minutes.
Thesz has a huge edge here, just because of the stipulation. I have no idea who would win this match if it were Austin vs. Thesz, one fall to a finish, but I can tell you right now, no way does Austin beat Thesz – or any top star from Thesz's era – in an iron man match.

 

[Danger Burger]

Thesz eats 60 minute matches for breakfast, keeps him lean.
Austin is famous for swearing and drinking too much beer!

Granted, we all remember how austin passed out rather than tap to bret at mania, and certainly thesz first instinct would be to make him tap. Austin wouldnt do it... But passing out makes you very very easy to pin... Thesz!

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Do you have brain damage or something? You come up with the silliest things to say, but not haha silly, more like "Does this guy have brain damage?" silly.

Stone Cold Steve Austin train? His whole gimmick basically boils down to the fact that he doesn't give a single fuck. Not one fuck. Ever. The idea of him training for an opponent is laughable. He's just going to come to the ring all pissed off, maybe a little drunk, and do what he does best: pummel his opponent.

Here's the deal J-Dogg and I'll slow it down for ya. Austin.not.wrestle.long.match.


There, all better. I was giving a kayfabe analogy as to how Austin would approach here. No doubt his forte is Lou Thesz press (ha!), Stomp Mudhole, Finger, Punches, More finger, Stunner. He has to give a fuck here. He has to give a fuck because he can't have a short span match here. This won't be his normal beer-swilling slugfest.



But with that being said, I have to concede.


I just went through, rather extensively over Thesz's records and the man has had 2 Hour time limit draws for the NWA Championship! And the old son of a bitch hardly lost clean in his prime.

I could make a case how Billy Longson defeated Lou Thesz for the title (and multiple non-title times) but it would be naivity. Noone cares about Billy Longson, not even Grampa Gelgarin.
Fact being, he had so many time limit draws it would make your head spin. And the lay of the land being that 2 out of 3 falls were THE gimmick match back in the day, I need to put my Stone Cold love aside and say, if this comes down as a tie (which it might, masses predominantly vote from the heart), consider this as my written endorsement for Lou Thesz.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I really want to say Austin would win this one, I really do but I just can't see it happening.

First thing is I guarantee Austin can go 60 minutes in a match with Lou Thesz, I think people don't understand how good in ring conditioning Austin really has when he is in shape. With that said his conditioning isn't as good as Lou Thesz, I don't think there are too many wrestlers that are.

When it comes down to it though Lou Thesz knows a million different ways to defeat an opponent, held the title for over 7 years and even though Austin was the biggest draw in wrestling history at one point, he didn't have the longevity of Lou Thesz. Hell, in his prime Lou was on TV more than any other person in history up to that point. Both men are great wrestlers and can go an hour but in the long run Thesz is simply greater when it comes down to technical prowess and the guy could wrestle 2 days straight if he had to.

Lastly and this is what it really comes down to with me. This is in the WCW region, they would automatically book Thesz over Austin, even when Austin was killing it in the ratings department all you heard was "If Austin was in WCW he would never be a big star". I can see Austin overcoming everything else, but he wouldn't overcome the booking of WCW.

I love Austin, but I have to go with Thesz here, even if I don't want to.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You mean the guy who made Stone Cold tap out with a leg submission?

Also the guy whom Stone Cold defeated time and again. A fact that you have chosen to ignore because it does not fuel your argument.

The fact that Austin was failing to win the match. He was unable to break the submission, but instead of simply tapping out and saving himself some pain he decided to keep fighting; the only thing he achieved was to get himself hurt worse. Now tell me, are you honestly stupid enough that you cannot see how that kind of poor decision making is going to hurt you in an iron man match?

It would be stupid to pass out in an iron man match but was the match with Hart an iron man match? Nope. How do you know Austin would do the same in an Iron Man match? You don't. And I believe he won't because he has tapped out after that match and also because he is rather smart.

Now you tell me; what were all those 60 minute matches in which Lou Thesz didn't score a single fall that you brought up last post?

Well, there are plenty of draws and no contests that Lou Thesz was a part of. That is all I care about. Even if the match was a 2 out of 3 fall match, which I am not sure about, that means Thesz got either 0 or only 1 fall in the match and in the matches he got just one fall, his opponent got one as well. I don't see how getting no falls or even just 1 fall over the course of even 90 minutes sometimes is something that favours Thesz especially considering the fact that Austin used to get his pinfalls quickly.

As for evidence, there is Thesz's match with Rikidozan in Tokyo which was a 62 minute draw. Here are some of other Thesz's draws that I discovered. All results are from the 1950's mind you. There are a few losses too.

Spoiler

Texas 1956 results

2/21/56 Dallas, TX @ Sportatorium
Bull Curry beat Danny McShain 2/3 to capture the Texas Brass Knuckles Title
Duke Keomuka & Kinja Shibuya beat Pepper Gomez & Luigi Macera 2/3 to capture the Texas State Tag Team Title
Prince Maiava beat Dr. Jerry Graham
Ray Gunkel beat Johnny Bence
Rocky Columbo drew Alvaro Velazco
Note: The Dallas Morning News reported that Pepper Gomez wrestled NWA champion Lou Thesz to a draw on Monday in Fort Worth.

NWA Champion Lou Thesz dcor Pepper Gomez in 3rd fall

NWA Champion Whipper Billy Watson beat Lou Thesz

Pepper Gomez beat Lou Thesz COR

Lou Thesz drew Suni War Cloud when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall

Winnipeg

1/25/57 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena
NWA Champion Lou Thesz drew Hard Boiled Haggerty 60:00 no falls scored

NWA Champion Lou Thesz dcor Whipper Billy Watson

Matches with Verne Gagne

1950

10/20 Houston, TX Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

04/03 Minneapolis, MN Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

10/06 Dallas, TX Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

10/16 Dallas, TX Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

10/26 Milwaukee, WI Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

1952

01/25 Chicago, IL Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

04/05 Milwaukee, WI Verne Gagne no contest with Lou Thesz

12/12 Chicago, IL Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

04/07 Boston, MA Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

06/25 Amarillo, TX Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

06/30 Minneapolis, MN Verne Gagne draw Lou Thesz

07/28 Chicago, IL Verne Gagne no contest with Lou Thesz

08/11 Chicago, IL Verne Gagne beat Lou Thesz

1958 East Texas

International Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez when the 90:00 time limit expired in the 3rd fall

5/2/58 Houston, TX
Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez

10/29/58 Corpus Christi, TX
Lou Thesz no contest El Medico

10/30/58 San Antonio, TX @ Wrestlethon
Lou Thesz drew Jesus Cardenas when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall

Lou Thesz drew John Tolos when the 60:00 minute time limit expired in the 3rd fall

Pepper Gomez drew Lou Thesz when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall

10/29/58 Corpus Christi, TX
Lou Thesz no contest El Medico

10/30/58 San Antonio, TX @ Wrestlethon
Lou Thesz drew Jesus Cardenas when the time limit expired in the 3rd fall

International Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez when the 90:00 time limit expired in the 3rd fall

5/2/58 Houston, TX
Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez

1957 Texas

3/1/57 Houston
NWA Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez 90:00

4/23/57 Dallas, TX @ Sportatorium
NWA Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez

8/8/57 Galveston, TX @ City Auditorium
NWA Champion Lou Thesz double knockout Luther Lindsay in 3rd fall

11/18/57 Fort Worth, TX
Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez

11/19/57 Dallas, TX @ Sportatorium
Bill Melby (sub Luther Lindsay, who was sick and prevented from wrestling by Dr. Rowson) dcor Lou Thesz in 3rd fall
1. Melby beat Thesz by submission with an abdominal stretch
2. Thesz beat Melby
3. Both men were counted out of the ring.

Texas 1955

8/31/55 San Antonio, TX @ Wrestlethon
NWA Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez when the 90 minte time limit expired in the 3rd fall

9/9/55 Houston, TX @ Sam Houston Coliseum
NWA Champion Lou Thesz drew Pepper Gomez when the 90 minute time limit expired in the 3rd fall

That is quite a list and I have many more results that I can show. But I will come back a while later because something has come up.

Now, Gelgarin show me the times when Thesz overcame interferences.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I have no doubt Austin would train fucking hard for this match.

Hmmm....FACT CHECK!

This match takes place one week following the third round.

Austin is going to have to be a cardio god to get himself into shape for a one hour Ironman match in just a week. Either that, or he had been planning this for months...

Here is my take on the fact that this is an Iron Man Match.

This is not a 60 minute match that goes 60 minutes then goes to the judges score card for who was the most technically dominant like an MMA decision, it is who gets the most pin falls, submissions, count outs or least dq's.

As my friend Dwayne J. likes to say "WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL" are you talking about? Thesz was a submission MASTER.

Austin was known as stated to Arrive, Raise Hell Leave. Resulting in quick pin falls and could be done quickly every time Thesz gets up. In one of Austins most famous matches he was going against another great technical wrestler in Bret Hart, and yes Bret won, but Austin never submitted preferring to pass out from the pain meaning he can not be counted on to tap out. And an Austin in his prime was more agile and quicker then Thesz

So your belief is that Austin will just Stun THesz repeatedly over and over again and rack up pins against a man who, in his prime RARELY, if ever, got pinned? Solid logic!

So yes Thesz has the better conditioning to go the 60 minutes but Austin's Style, Skill, Tenacity, and Toughness more then make up for in a match where it is the number of times you can win in 60 minutes not being able to just prove you can go for 60 minutes.

This entire "thought" makes no sense. Like, at all.

What makes you think Austin wouldnt sacrifice a fall by DQ just to beat the hell out of Thesz with a chair to weaken him up or take out a limb? A weakened or injured Thesz is less effective and Austin is smart enough to know that.

So now the referee is just going to disqualify Austin once and then wait until Austin has completed his vicious illegal beating before restarting the match? Hmmm...

Thesz will get his fair share of falls and Austin will have a problem with keeping Thesz off his leg. He will grab it and twist it until Austin screams and passes out. I think after the falls are tied 2-2 and Austin is hurting- he will grab a chair and go to town. This would cause a DQ but also cause Thesz to be injured just as well. That gives Austin a more level playing field to even the score again and cause Thesz some trouble in the long run of the match.

Using TheWrestlingGod's dynamic "reasoning", why wouldn't Thesz just repeatedly pin the unconscious Austin who moronically refused to tap out?