Vince to bring in a MMA side to WWE

[taker_for_life]

Ok so this is my first thread and i didn't know if i should put it here or in the MMA section. Move it if it's in the wrong place.

Ok so i've been wondering weather u think vine or shane and steph when vinve retires will bring in an MMA side to the company to tap into the lucrative market??

IMO this would be epic if the WWE could be a big player in MMA, UFC would finaly have some competition.

What do u guys think??

 

[corvis]

I don't see them doing anything like that really, they are 2 seperate products.

Think back to about 10 years ago with the Brawl For All stuff, they brought in a boxing element and it seemed to do nothing but backfire in the long haul.

I suppose they've got that to look back on and realise it's a (potentially) bad idea

Plus they'd have to drop the WWE tag as it identifies with wrestling.

So they could start up another brand/company for some MMA stuff, but they tried this with football and the XFL and that went belly up.

 

[taker_for_life]

Ok thats a good point wasnt watching then, but i was more getting not putting MMA on RAW or SD thats Stupit. But bringing in another show or even another side to the company that isnt conected to the wrestling.

 

[Razor]

No. They're two different products, first of all.

Secondly, even if you were to bring in a different brand or branch all together to produce it, it would still have the stigma of "that fake pro-wrestling company." No one would believe it real. "That's owned by the WWE. It must be fake." And a MMA company is nothing if you can't believe in what they're doing. It ruins the whole "they're really fighting" experience. It's like knowing the fix is in on a boxing match.

 

[corvis]

Again I'll hark back to the XFL stuff.

Vince (and I'm assuming others) thought they could start up an American football company/brand. At the time just as it was starting up they looked at this as an honest rival to the NFL.

Point is, it didn't work.

You could also argue about WWE Films, to their credit they branched out and tried to make a splash in the market. Problem is that (regardless of whether you like them) the flicks they put out pretty much tanked, now it seems they're stuck in the straight to DVD area now.

Now this depends on your perspective, but that can also be seen as a fail.

Point is, they're a wrestling company maybe they should stick to their guns.

 

[UFCWWEFAN4EVER]

I have heard that Shane is a fan of MMA and wanted to do some type of MMA matches in WWE. I, though, think it would it would be huge failure. WWE should stick to what they know, entertainment.

 

[SpoodBeest]

I really don't think it would work. Fans already know the shows are scripted, well the majority know so scripting MMA like fights on a pro wrestling shows just seems out of place IMO. So that being the main reason it would not work

All of the MMA "fights" would be pre determined which would take away from the actual fights themselves.

Not to mention that if your a mega wrestling fan, and don't care too much for MMA, like me cause I really don't care for MMA in all honesty. You would probably piss off some of that percentage of fans, however I am aware that there are a larger amount fans who like both.

So for WWE being an entertainment type show, throwing in some MMA fights would just seem out of place and weird at that. So IMO, I just don't think it would work

 

[andymcg]

Although this is a much smaller scale to WWE but remeber when TNA tryed a MMA angle with Frank Trigg Vs Aj Styles, what happened ?

Chants of "We Want Wrestling" and "Fire Russo" and "This Match Sucks", etc broke out, E.G it failed big style.

I love MMA and wrestling but personally i think they should definetly be kept to 2 seperate programmes.

 

[Harthan]

This is potentially the most atrocious idea ever. The mere idea that Vince would ever attempt to make an MMA promotion is as moronic as they come.

I don't know where to begin. Let's see, first off, Vince tried it, and it failed abysmally. I take you back to 1998, when Vince McMahon, in his infinite wisdom, decided to give all the big tough guys with limited wrestling skills something to do. Thus, the Brawl for All Tournament. It wasn't MMA, but it was close enough to tell Vince one thing - it won't work. The fans hated it, it got too many guys injured, and real fighters were pisses about the stupid rules. Now, if Vince actually tried MMA, with trained MMA fighters, which is problem enough, as I'll get into, he'd alleviate the injuries and such, but the fans would still hate it. The average wrestling fan could care less about MMA, and the average MMA fan would be hard pressed to be attracted to Vince McMahon running an MMA promotion.

Secondly, the lack of talent. The UFC has most of the good talent, and the ones that they don't have, Affliction and Strikeforce do. The only guy Vince could get with any talent is Dan Severn, who already dislikes Vince. Vince would be forced to either conscript his wrestlers into MMA, which is a stupid idea, or use a plethora of shitty indy fighters, which won't make him any money.

Thirdly, let's just try this - Vince would HAVE to cross promote with the WWE...but do you realize the inherent problem there? What's the major selling point of MMA when compared to wrestling? It's legit shootfighting. How do you sell that to people when you're cross promoting with the WWE? Shatter kayfabe entirely, admit it's all a load of bullshit and it's really just two sweaty men pretending to fight each other? You can't, in any logical way, cross promote with the WWE without hurting the WWE, and if you can't cross promote it with the WWE, it will fail, miserably.

Vince would have to have completely lost all his senses to form an MMA promotion, and despite what the IWC likes to believe about him, he's still an intelligent man. Out of touch, maybe, but still damned intelligent, and there's no chance in hell, pun 100% intended, that Vince would ever form an MMA promotion.

 

[GSM]

Who would take that product serious ?
A MMA show labelled with WWE ? A lot of people know what the WWE is, it´s a wrestling promotion, and what is MMA ? MMA is a real sport, with real competition and real Fighters that really knock someone out on purpose.

So a person who is a fan of MMA and constantly watches UFC ( Most famous MMA promotion BTW) will probably think "WWE makes MMA now ? Probably as fake as the rest of the product."

The MMA fans wouldn´t change to the WWE because the UFC is making it really good so far and MMA by the WWE wouldn´t really be a danger to them.

And who would fight there ? The biggest names in the MMA businnes are working for the UFC, they would only lose their good name by fighting for a WWE labelled MMA product.

Because in the back of the heads of the fans will alway sticks "WRESTLING !!!! "

 

[Nitafrong]

I think most of the users (well the other 9 who have replied so far) seem to agree that legitimately trying to incorporate MMA into the WWE product wouldn’t really work- the juxtaposition of the fake with the real or “shoot”.

What about the other point that the author is seemingly raising- to try and make the wrestling more like a MMA fight- like the Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle fight that TNA did a while back? I know one of the editorial writers on the site wrote appreciatively of it (though I seem to remember most of the users here rubbishing it as boring : ). Yet another example of the different views which the so called professionals have from the typical fan). Should the WWE or TNA attempt to incorporate MMA elements into their fights, like the Undertaker’s use of the Hells Gate? (I think someone said this was similar to a triangle choke or something- Mark Calloway being a noted MMA fan)

Personally I would be against it. Being that we know that professional wrestling is fake, the most attractive aspects of it are its fast pace, its use of spots and ring psychology- all which are missing from a MMA fight. I might be in the minority here but on a pure enjoyment basis- a good wrestling match tends to be better than a good MMA match (which can often end up in scrabbling on the ground for minutes on end) Its main attraction is that it is actually real.

Anyways in short, I don’t think MMA and professional wrestling can really mix, bar stealing stars from each other : )

 

[mister_b1LL]

An MMA Promotion? Never.

Touches of MMA thrown into the current WWE product? Not too bad.

Keep in mind, some of the best wrestlers make their opponents submit, like Bret Hart and Chris Jericho. Winning by submission is a thing they do in MMA. The Big Show uses the knockout punch to end the match. And knockouts are a regular occurence in MMA.

The point is there are already some little touches of MMA currently in the WWE product. In order for WWE to stay relevant they need to stay with the times and be able to adapt with them. For example, when WCW had the nWo, WWE (then F) responded with D-Generation X. When MTV was becoming a hot channel, Vince added a plethora of celebrities like Cyndi Lauper to the card at the first WrestleMania. Today, the new hot commodity is MMA. Eventually Vince and later Shane or Steph will bring more touches of MMA to the WWE.

 

[RKOLEGACYRULZ]

Corvis and Razorback as I said it on the thread Is Vince killing WWE I simply stated the facts and you still insist they are 2 separate products THEY ARE BOTH SPORTS shall I give you the definition of wrestling again ? As I clearly stated Vince is n ot only bringing in MMA side to it he is changing the sport of Wrestling since many fans have adverted and converted to UFC since they broke out in 1993
TNA did a bit of UFC back last year when Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe fought barefoot in a steel cage match although I strongly suggest they should continue that route
Now since Breaking Point is a submissive PPV he is indeed capitalizing on UFC and is trying to win back fans over to his wrestling world
UFC has just recently acquired PRIDE Fighting. This will make them even better. One other thing, UFC is starting to equal the WWE in PPV's as well this is a huge loss to Vinnie Mac.He needs to make wrestling REAL or he ll lose out to the competition UFC is in and they'll take over in 2 years time or sooner
UFC did about 5,225,000 in domestic buys with a total gross revenue for PPV events of $222,766,000. The 10 live PPV shows did over $40 million.
UFC will indeed surpass WWE evntually and surely

 

[X]

Corvis and Razorback as I said it on the thread Is Vince killing WWE I simply stated the facts and you still insist they are 2 separate products THEY ARE BOTH SPORTS shall I give you the definition of wrestling again ?

What planet do you live on? You're right wrestling is a sport. Guess what? PRO WRESTLING is not. If you can't see the difference, you clearly have very little intelligence. Shall I give you the definition of the word "sport"? Because there is no real competition in the WWE. It's not a sport. If you even attempt to argue that, you're a fool, and no one here will take you seriously. Not that any of us were to begin with.

I don't even need to bother myself with the rest of your asinine post. You clearly understand very little about professional wrestling.

 

[Wrestling_Info_Kid2009]

seriously why would wwe need to throw in some mma, They done that when they brought in ken shamrock and steve blackman. WWE is pro wrestling and mma is ultimate fighting, after wwe is trying to be a family oriented show then why would they throw in mma. It wont happen. unless you see wrestlers doing some mma moves..

 

[ddemps03]

I've actually thought a little about this as of late and think it could actually work.

In the past decade or so the WWE has gone out of its way to show just how scripted their product is so that veil has been lifted. At the same time the MMA world has exploded onto the scene. I think the WWE has the resources to easily start up a succesful promotion but you'd have to be careful to separate the two products. Obviously some cross-promotion would take place but I would hope against hope to not see promos by the MMA promotion on Monday Night Raw. Maybe a championship match at Wrestlemania or something but outside of that keep them apart and I think it works fine.

 

[RKOLEGACYRULZ]

Boy X and Razorback are such MARKS PRO-Wrestling and Wrestling is the same thing!
Mr X When WWE Circus removes and scraps all the TITLES they have for competing and fighting like every wrestler does than it ll be a circus ! So shall we? Let's say WWE scrap and remove all Titles(IC Title,Tag Team Titles,US Title,WWE Title and World Heavyweight Title) Afterall all wrestlers compete and grapple for the gold no? Seriously you guys need to get your head out of your buttocks and think clearly when you write
look up at the dictionary what WRESTLING means it is wrestling: 1the act of engaging in close hand-to-hand combat
2.A sport in which two competitors attempt to throw or immobilize each other by
Wrestling and Pro-Wrestling wow is the same shit lol anyways
Next thing you ll tell me Wrestling is not a sport what is Kurt Angle then a circus freak competitor champion he won the medal in The Olympics butobviously I won't even respond back to you airheads you don't seem to realize my arguement!

 

[Slyfox696]

Boy X and Razorback are such MARKS PRO-Wrestling and Wrestling is the same thing!
Mr X When WWE Circus removes and scraps all the TITLES they have for competing and fighting like every wrestler does than it ll be a circus ! So shall we? Let's say WWE scrap and remove all Titles(IC Title,Tag Team Titles,US Title,WWE Title and World Heavyweight Title) Afterall all wrestlers compete and grapple for the gold no? Seriously you guys need to get your head out of your buttocks and think clearly when you write
look up at the dictionary what WRESTLING means it is wrestling: 1the act of engaging in close hand-to-hand combat
2.A sport in which two competitors attempt to throw or immobilize each other by
Wrestling and Pro-Wrestling wow is the same shit lol anyways
Next thing you ll tell me Wrestling is not a sport what is Kurt Angle then a circus freak competitor champion he won the medal in The Olympics butobviously I won't even respond back to you airheads you don't seem to realize my arguement!

First of all, I want you to realize that if people don't understand your arguments, it is probably because you have some of the most atrocious posting skills I have ever seen.

Second of all, professional wrestling and amateur wrestling are COMPLETELY different. It's not even in the same ballpark. Amateur wrestling is competition, two guys trying to pin each other's shoulders to the mat, in a non-scripted athletic contest. In pro wrestling, the "wrestlers" are really actors, putting on a staged contest in which both men know beforehand who will win, and how they will win. Furthermore, who wins and who gets titles is not dictated upon performance in the ring, but rather by the creative and writers in the back.

Third, pro wrestling is NOT a sport. For it to be a sport, there would have to be an element of competition between the workers in the ring. That doesn't happen in pro wrestling. Instead of competing, they work together to put on an entertaining show.

Fourth, Vince should never ever touch MMA, because the UFC has MMA by the ballsack now, and Vince would never be able to do anything but lose money on it.

Finally, learn to type legibly so I don't have to get a headache to read your posts.

 

[Lazerball]

worst idea ever, you should cut your tongue out for thinking it, and then cut of your fingers so you cant type these awful ideas. they are two separate things, and should not be mixed. One is entertainment first off and the other thinks its a real sport, they are too different and if that happens they will lose plenty of fans, bad idea is bad.

 

[hellfirebrian85]

Secondly, the lack of talent. The UFC has most of the good talent, and the ones that they don't have, Affliction and Strikeforce do. The only guy Vince could get with any talent is Dan Severn, who already dislikes Vince. Vince would be forced to either conscript his wrestlers into MMA, which is a stupid idea, or use a plethora of shitty indy fighters, which won't make him any money.

This is the biggest reason I think it is a bad idea. It's kind of like ROH and TNA at first. They didn't have the right talent. And until recently TNA didn't have that big of names and they almost flopped.

I can see the same thing happening to MMA:WWE. Plus I could see Vince trying his own twist. Maybe a team thing like IFL, and it flopped too. So no matter I don't see it as possible.

 

[attila]

I agree that WWE entering the MMA game would be a stupid move - Dana has that all tied up. The UFC is one of the best run promotions I have ever been witness to. They are a quality product and just overall a very well run organization.

However, one thing that I do like the idea of is changing the way that WWE is presented. Pro wrestling is by far more exciting than MMA (although that's becoming a more and more arguable point as of late), so I wouldn't change the in-ring style but how about everything around it. How about if the presentation of the product was different. So we had all this great build towards PPV's as we see the guys in "training" and we can have vignettes where the guys talk about their real life backgrounds and their strategies going into this match etc.

It would add a great sports-like legitimacy to the promotion without compromising the in-ring stuff. Thoughts?

 

[Nitafrong]

I think the post by Attila (I was going to jokingly refer to him simply as “The Hun” before remembering that this is quite an insulting insult for a certain religion on my side of the pond. Don’t want to really start creating ructions. Well not unless they are of an interesting kind : ) ), makes an interesting point. The build up in the weekly shows is meant to create a sense of animosity between the fighters, to get you excited for the PPV. However in a lot of feuds nowadays this doesn’t seem to be that successful- often boiling down to long promo’s at the head of the show, interference in other matches or “contract signings”.

Could this all be refreshed by creating a more UFC style promo, set during their training? It probably wouldn’t hurt by having some of these but I don’t think they should all be changed like this. With the rigours of four shows sometimes before a PPV, it would all get a bit repetitive- not that the UFC ones don’t get like this anyway. If you have seen one Tito Ortiz promo against his opponent (entertaining though they can be) you have seen them all.

I defiantly do think that the addition of new features would do the weekly shows well, for the last couple of months most of the beginnings to raw have looked exactly the same- Orton talks for a while, challenger disparages him, third person enters sometimes unconnected to the title fight, and then the GM arranges a match…… and so on. And so on. And…. Yeah

 

[Razor]

I understand Xfear and Slyfox sorta took a part some of your posts, but I feel it my duty to handle your strings of posts. I may be the only one who can read a post that doesn't end with periods.

Corvis and Razorback as I said it on the thread Is Vince killing WWE I simply stated the facts and you still insist they are 2 separate products

Wrestling and Pro-Wrestling are.

THEY ARE BOTH SPORTS shall I give you the definition of wrestling again ?

You can, but I'd just give you the definition of Pro-Wrestling again. And we'd keep getting caught in the same circle. Over and over again. As the world turns, as the post is written, so to speak.

As I clearly stated Vince is n ot only bringing in MMA side to it he is changing the sport of Wrestling since many fans have adverted and converted to UFC since they broke out in 1993

How is he bringing in MMA? Because he is making a PPV focus on a part of wrestling that has been around since the days of territories? That is, of course, the submission match.

TNA did a bit of UFC back last year when Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe fought barefoot in a steel cage match although I strongly suggest they should continue that route

Why? So that their fans can get even more pissy? Those fans were pissed that they were subjected to that bullshit. And I don't see them peeling away any UFC fans because they had that barefoot bullshit.

Now since Breaking Point is a submissive PPV he is indeed capitalizing on UFC and is trying to win back fans over to his wrestling world

Or, you know, they're just making a PPV exclusive to the match they've essentially left dormant. You know, they're breathing new life into the tag teams, and they're trying to breath new life into their PPVs. This time they're trying to making them more distinct from each other.

UFC has just recently acquired PRIDE Fighting. This will make them even better.

I honestly don't care about UFC buying companies up. This isn't the MMA forum.

One other thing, UFC is starting to equal the WWE in PPV's as well this is a huge loss to Vinnie Mac.

How is one company that is selling something completely from McMahon gonna hurt his own buys? He may be losing young adult males, but he's not aiming for that demographic anymore. He's aiming for children and early teens, hence the PG era that the forums have taken to naming it.

He needs to make wrestling REAL or he ll lose out to the competition UFC is in and they'll take over in 2 years time or sooner

Once again, I would love to hear your understanding of why UFC would even look at the WWE. They sell two different products. Why would UFC buy out WWE, when WWE is aimed at a younger demographic? It would make no sense.

Consider this:

Nickelodeon is it's own company (it's not. But let's run with the metaphor.) Nickelodeon is doing really well with it's whole getting the child and pre-teen demographic. And now it decides to buy out the entire Porn industry.

Why would Nickelodeon, aiming at children and pre-teens with cartoons and other shitty live-action shows, buy out a company that targets adult males with sexually explicit material? The companies have two different products and two different demographics.

But if we were to follow your logic, either Nickelodeon or the Porn industry should buy the other out. Because, you know, they're both doing incredibly well.

UFC did about 5,225,000 in domestic buys with a total gross revenue for PPV events of $222,766,000. The 10 live PPV shows did over $40 million.
UFC will indeed surpass WWE evntually and surely

I don't care what UFC is doing. Not at all. You can quit telling me how well they're doing.

The UFC is selling a strict sports event to their demographic. The WWE is selling a soap-opera (for all intents and purposes) to their completely separate demographic. Please, tell me how the two are going to intersect.

 

[Razor]

Boy X and Razorback are such MARKS PRO-Wrestling and Wrestling is the same thing!

I don't see who you're yelling MARKS to like it's going to hurt. I am a mark. I mark for Cena, Kofi, Trips, the wrestlers who are going against the big bad heels. Just as I boo Orton, Edge, Punk. Because when you're watching Pro-Wrestling you need to suspend belief and follow the story. Afterward you can come online and shit on Kofi's Big Show feud, but the product is completely more enjoyable if you take it as a story. Which is what they're putting it forth as.

The fact that they put it forth as a story alone is what makes it different from Wrestling. Wrestling is meant to show who's stronger, who's faster. Pro-Wrestling does no such thing.

Mr X When WWE Circus removes and scraps all the TITLES they have for competing and fighting like every wrestler does than it ll be a circus !

I don't even understand why the WWE would scrap every title, considering they are the point of many of the storylines. But I didn't read X's post. Maybe I should. Hold on.

Yeah. X never even said anything about taking away the titles. Because that'd be silly. The WWE shows itself as a company of wrestlers who are fighting for the major titles with weird cartoony storylines that make you care. However, that's not to say that the titles make the product a sport. Because they don't.

So shall we? Let's say WWE scrap and remove all Titles(IC Title,Tag Team Titles,US Title,WWE Title and World Heavyweight Title)

Why'd we do that? That's silly.

Afterall all wrestlers compete and grapple for the gold no?

If the storyline calls for them to compete for the title, then yes. But it's all storyline when they're fighting for the title. Seriously. Orton having that title is nothing more than creative telling him he can have it. For someone who has watched since the days of WCW, I fail to understand how you don't understand this. And you call me a mark. Which I'm not really insulted by, but still.

Seriously you guys need to get your head out of your buttocks and think clearly when you write

You can spell "buttocks" correctly, but you can't use periods? or spell half of the other words you type correctly? SERIOUSLY? You annoy me.

l

ook up at the dictionary what WRESTLING means it is wrestling: 1the act of engaging in close hand-to-hand combat
2.A sport in which two competitors attempt to throw or immobilize each other by
Wrestling and Pro-Wrestling wow is the same shit lol anyways

Did you look up the definition of pro-wrestling? and not wikipedia. Oh, you didn't? Probably because it's not defined in the dictionary.

Pro-Wrestling is a story put on both inside of and outside of the ring. It is nothing like wrestling in that the competitors aren't seriously trying to "throw or immobilize their opponent" and they aren't seriously engaging in hand-to-hand combat. It's all staged. Come on, man. It can't be wrestling if they aren't really fighting.

Next thing you ll tell me Wrestling is not a sport what is Kurt Angle then a circus freak competitor champion he won the medal in The Olympics

First of all, Angle was a gold medal in the OLYMPIC wrestling competition. Not Pro-Wrestling. Angle's gold medal win was pushed by booking as a reason for why he was so good. But realistically, he was so good because he wasn't a complete ******** and could put on a match the crowd cared about. Then he goes and doesn't work the heel part in the Cena feud properly. Because he's a jackass. But going along.

You seem to think that pro-wrestling isn't fake...but then you know it's fake. You have some weird stance that's really odd.

butobviously I won't even respond back to you airheads you don't seem to realize my arguement!

Oh, I understand. That's the problem.

Go ahead, claim that you have the high ground and that we just don't understand. No one is fooled. We all know that you have no idea what you're talking about. Hell, you don't even have an idea as to how to end a paragraph.

Run along now, and say you won. But every time you whine about wrestling and pro-wrestling being the same thing, you're showing everyone who really won.

Good day.

 

[RKOLEGACYRULZ]

Like I said if he changes the face of wrestling and make it realistic he'll survive or else he'll lose out to UFC competition noone wants to watch fake punching and gay moves in wrestling it has to be real punches and so on and besides Wrestling has titles like UFC does so if wrestling is a competitive sport it should focus more on that less on the glorified soap opera becoz many fans are laughing at Wrestling fans like UFC Fighters mock and humiliate Wrestlers themselves
Already Point Break is a prime example of UFC all submission matches in that PPV and its happening at my hometown not worth watching it I ll go see it at a local bar