Vince McMahon and Mainstream Approval

[The Scarred One]

It's probably no secret that Vince McMahon is desperate for mainstream approval and attention. In regards to calling it sports entertainment instead of wrestling and calling his employees superstars instead of wrestlers, it might also be said that he is ashamed of being known as just a wrestling promoter.

Vince McMahon loves being a brand of entertainment as opposed to wrestling. He has done many things in the past to make it such for both himself and the WWE. Examples of McMahon branching out from wrestliing include the World Bodybuilding Federation, the Xtreme Football League, WWE Films and the upcoming WWE Network. There has also been the RAW Guest Host run in the recent past and the official name change from World Wrestling Entertainment to just WWE.

Now Vince McMahon has conquered the wrestling world many times over. Back when he took over the company from his father, he had a vision to transform a regional promotion into a worldwide promotion. In doing so, he did business so well that he put many competitors out of business, eventually buying the rights to them and establishing an empire.

But at the same time, it could be said he's always looked for something more than that.

So what I'm wondering is, if Vince McMahon had made it in Hollywood long ago, would've he have left the WWE in the hands of Shane, Stephanie and Triple H already?

Let's just say that the XFL became a huge success. Or movies like "See No Evil" and "The Marine" became box-office smashes. Or if instead of Donald Trump, Vince McMahon was approached to do "The Apprentice." After finally gaining that mainstream approval, would he have stuck with the company or would he have handed the keys to the kingdom over to his children and son-in-law long ago?

 

[dotty_84]

Nice thread. For your question, I would say yes but i believe regarding Wrestlemania, he would always wants his input and decision making over everyone elses, what the WWE is today is his baby, to completely cut it off and leave it, then no. I do think he would leave the company in the hands of his siblings, albeit drastic, changes would have to be brought to his attention and approval first.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The interesting thing about mainstream approval is that it doesn't last and ultimately fails. Without a loyal niche audience a business' eyes and stomachs get too big and there is no way to keep the ship afloat when times get rough. Look at The Price is Right, Soap Operas, Howard Stern and Fox News. All are heavily disliked and criticized by a large portion of the population, but are huge long term successes due to their ability to appeal to a core audience or demographic. Wrestling fails in to this group.

Wait, that wasn't the question. I think WWE will always be Vince's baby as long as he feels he has the mental and physical capacity to do so. He has the pressure of it being his family's legacy on his shoulders and he has a reputation of being a micromanager. He also knows that his other creations may get mainstream appeal but his business ultimately relies on professional wrestling to hold the overall business together (now I remember why I started to write the first paragraph). Plus, he can pay others who have succeeded in ventures like movies and sports to run those businesses. He is never going to find someone with his record in wrestling (shut about hiring Paul Heyman).

 

[Trill Co$by]

Say and believe what you want, but WWE IS mainstream. WWE today is recognized by so many celebrities and their stars are featured in so many ways that it's impossible to say they're not mainstream. I mean, just look at John Cena and Make a Wish. Or The Rock with Hollywood. Miz and talk shows...

Hell, last night, there were a total of 3 WWE Superstars at the Nickelodeon's Kids Choice Awards. That right there should show you how big WWE is with Mainstream. Sure, they might not be the biggest of stars, but they're still mainstream stars. I mean Hornswoggle is working with Lionsgate.

So no, I don't think Vince would've left WWE for Mainstream. I think he would've found that having lack of overall control over himself would've made him go back to WWE in a heartbeat.

 

[Killercam]

The bigger question is what happens after he can no longer be the boss. I think Shane can be as good and if he chooses to play a similar on screen role and not run it from behind the scenes he will eventually be as big as Vince

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Vince sometimes is criticized by net fans and wrestling insiders alike for consistently courting attention from the mainstream media. I agree that, sometimes, Vince has let it get in the way of the actual product at times.

At the same time, however, it's hard for me to fault Vince for trying to make WWE bigger than it is. Not to say that I'll agree with or even like some of what he comes up with. I'm not a businessman but I tend to think that if there's any one thing that the owner of a profitable business wants to do, it's to make it bigger and more profitable. It's simple logic to me. All in all, pro wrestling is probably looked at as "low brow entertainment" in the eyes of a lot of people. At the same time, it's not uncommon for big names in the entertainment industry to associate with WWE, especially if there's some sort of potential gain.

Even if the attention the WWE gets isn't long lasting, the courting of mainstream media attention does do some positive things all the same. For one thing, it keeps the WWE's name out there. Whether someone is a fan of wrestling or not, whether some entertainment bigshows like it or not, the WWE is able to constantly remind people that it is a legitimate force. It pulls in hundreds of millions of dollars a year, performs in front of millions of fans in live events each year, is a merchendise heavyweight and produces some of the most watched shows on cable tv, which does kind of say a lot since most tv programming takes place on cable networks rather than the broadcast networks of NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox & CW.

Vince has had a different way of doing things, at least some things, when it comes to his wrestling company than his contemporaries and predescessors did. He's made some huge screw ups, no doubt, but, all in all, he's the one that's been left standing while they've gone the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I think no matter the extenet of his mainstream success in other outlets the WWE would always be Vince's baby. The guy lives and breathes wrestling, just about every superstar he has ever had a relationship with regardless of their opinion on him testifies to his passion for the company and the product. He would never have achieved the massive success he has without a trmendous passion for the business.

I think a lot of the mainstream stuff he does is more as an attempt to boost the profile of the company than actually forge a seperate institution in hollywood or whatever. Vince lives and breathes the WWE and I think he will be heavily involved until he is no longer phsyically or mentally capable regardless of the success of other ventures.

 

[Shotaro]

The wider issue is that Vince seems to desperately want wrestling to be "cool" again, it isn't. We aren't cool for being fans of wrestling. The friends of mine that KNOW I'm a wrestling fan don't care or take the piss because of it.

The most mainstream attention wrestling has had in years was Punk over the summer. This site had it's PEAK users that night. It's no coincidence. Punk's tirade mattered and sadly WWE kinda let the momentum dwindle a bit. He needed to be back when he did though. The real shame is that this didn't happen in February. Imagine Punk doing his thing and walking away with the title from the Elimination Chamber, then having this HUGE viral campaign over the WM season. In the mean time a tournament for the WWE title happens with the final at the main event. The Raw before WM. Cult of Personality hits. Punk Returns. TWO WWE title matches in one night. The tournamant Final followed by Punk v the winner. I'd bet it'd get more mainstream attention that Rock Cena and it COULD potentially sell more PPVs.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Yes he would have stayed with the company. Soooooo many spot marks bitch and moan because he always says "we're entertainment, not a sport" or whatever. That's not because he hates wrestling and says "well shit, I'm making money off of it so I may as well use it" he calls it that because that's what it REALLY IS. In fact, that's what it's always been. It used to be promoted more as a sport because that's what draw. However, ask ANYONE off the street and they'll tell you that it's "male soap opera". Why is it that the average Joe gets this but the supposed "smart" marks don't?

Also, please STOP with the "WWE is dying, he DESPIRATELY wants to be cool" etc. WWE is an incredibly healthy company that draws more than most sports teams, is consistently near the top of ratings every week all year long and in about 3 hours will draw more than the NCAA tournament final.

Pro wrestling is a niche entertainment, for it to be this popular for this long is remarkable. Even at it's peak wrestling was considered "Trash TV" and actually not watched by a majority of people (facts hurt). Now wrestling is considered "fun, kinda dumb, but fun" and still not watched by a majority of people. It still draws really well, still gets high ratings (again, in relation to the all the channels and outlets, don't be stupid), and they still make a lot of money.

I've heard this "WWE is going down' bullshit since about 2001 on boards. It's ******ed. There hasn't been a single point in time where the IWC didn't wish things were like "they used to be" or some bullshit.

If Vince had more successful entities in entertainment, he wouldn't sell them, they'd just become a part of his brand. He'd cross promote and make all of them draw more. Why would he sell something that's highly successful? Despite the idiots who don't understand business or statistics on here thing, WWE IS highly successful and IS about as popular as a niche entertainment product can get.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The wider issue is that Vince seems to desperately want wrestling to be "cool" again, it isn't. We aren't cool for being fans of wrestling. The friends of mine that KNOW I'm a wrestling fan don't care or take the piss because of it.

The most mainstream attention wrestling has had in years was Punk over the summer. This site had it's PEAK users that night. It's no coincidence. Punk's tirade mattered and sadly WWE kinda let the momentum dwindle a bit. He needed to be back when he did though. The real shame is that this didn't happen in February. Imagine Punk doing his thing and walking away with the title from the Elimination Chamber, then having this HUGE viral campaign over the WM season. In the mean time a tournament for the WWE title happens with the final at the main event. The Raw before WM. Cult of Personality hits. Punk Returns. TWO WWE title matches in one night. The tournamant Final followed by Punk v the winner. I'd bet it'd get more mainstream attention that Rock Cena and it COULD potentially sell more PPVs.

Why even speculate that? Imagine if TVs only got the USA Channel HUUUGE RATINGZZZ. Why even speculate "what if it happened in February"? You still have to fill in, you know, July through January to get there. It was a perfect storm and it worked.

Also, the Punk thing didn't get as much press as you think, WWE has connections in the business. I heard it on Fox Sports radio, they said "listen to this" *played clip* then "that's the best acting I've ever heard in pro wrestling, unfortunately, they taped the next week after so we know it was fake" that's the gist. Believe it or not, it didn't "make wrestling cool again" it didn't boost much of anything. It was a small increase but that's all it could have ever been. It's a niche product.

lol at you thinking " TWO WWE title matches in one night. The tournamant Final followed by Punk v the winner. I'd bet it'd get more mainstream attention that Rock Cena and it COULD potentially sell more PPVs" that's just silly. To most people, it's still pro wrestling. NOBODY thought Punk actually left. Nobody except dumbfucks on here who are more of a mark than any of the 10 year olds in the audience. Rock sells because he's a huge brand. Cena sells because he's a huge brand. CM Punk isn't at all as big of a brand as the other two.

Most people on here who like to think they are in the know don't understand business and thus, don't understand pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is a business and the wrestlers are products.

 

[EastCoastFan]

That's a tough one. If Vince had been successful with some of his outside ventures, I don't think he'd leave. I think he'd delegate more responsibility to other people, but he would never fully hand over the reins to Shane or Steph/HHH. Vince is a Type-A control freak and will only step down if he has a serious health issue.

 

[whoopin' ass]

i think Vince might be a little envious of Ted Turner and the fact that wrestling was just part of his world where as for Vince, it is the whole world. it is a little weird - two of his biggest stars ever (Rock and Austin) make movies but not for wwe films and his own films with Cena, Orton, etc are generally looked at as B-level at best. But i don't know if he would have handled things off if he had success earlier - something tells me he would have been just as hands on as he is since his ego would say the success if because of his hard work. i think a lot of it is Vince is bored. with no real competition out there for WWE(sorry TNA isn't there yet), he looks for something else to do and since he wasn't successful with Hogan and movies, he wants to do them now to show he is successful in more than just wrestling.

 

[Shotaro]

Why even speculate that? Imagine if TVs only got the USA Channel HUUUGE RATINGZZZ. Why even speculate "what if it happened in February"? You still have to fill in, you know, July through January to get there. It was a perfect storm and it worked.

I agree I was only speculating because speculation is fun.

Also, the Punk thing didn't get as much press as you think, WWE has connections in the business. I heard it on Fox Sports radio, they said "listen to this" *played clip* then "that's the best acting I've ever heard in pro wrestling, unfortunately, they taped the next week after so we know it was fake" that's the gist. Believe it or not, it didn't "make wrestling cool again" it didn't boost much of anything. It was a small increase but that's all it could have ever been. It's a niche product.

Locally it was the first time I'd overheard ANYONE talking about wrestling in twelve years. I work in a college (in the UK, so essentially High School). It was also the last time. The return of the Rock meant diddly squat over here but CM Punks thing got people actually talking. At least where I am.

lol at you thinking " TWO WWE title matches in one night. The tournamant Final followed by Punk v the winner. I'd bet it'd get more mainstream attention that Rock Cena and it COULD potentially sell more PPVs" that's just silly. To most people, it's still pro wrestling. NOBODY thought Punk actually left. Nobody except dumbfucks on here who are more of a mark than any of the 10 year olds in the audience. Rock sells because he's a huge brand. Cena sells because he's a huge brand. CM Punk isn't at all as big of a brand as the other two.

Most people on here who like to think they are in the know don't understand business and thus, don't understand pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is a business and the wrestlers are products.

I agree with your final statement. I was talking about from a Marketing perspective. I was erroneous to say that it would have sold more. It wouldn't. However from a Marketing POV the whole thing would've added so much to the card. I got caught up in speculation and ended up missing the point of my own post.

The point I was trying to make was: If Vince wants mainstream attention he really has to capitalise on the opportunities he gets. Wrestlemania was pretty much the best night of Wrestling I've ever watched. If WWE can't get some boosted ratings, which will force Media attention onto it after this...

(by the way - I realise how little the ratings really mean. But at the same time they're one of the best indications available of how many people actually care about WWE on a week-to-week basis.)