UFC 151 Cancelled

[Daniel]

It's just been announced. In a nutshell, Henderson had to drop out of his match with Jon Jones. Lyoto Machida was offered Jones and said no. Chael Sonnen was offered Jones and said yes. Jones said no to Sonnen.

So it's off.

The event was scheduled for 1st September. With only eight days notice, was Jon Jones within his rights to say no to a fight? Or should a world champion (and a man who is already being spoken of as one of the greatest fighters of all-time) take on all comers at all times?

Personally, I don't what side of the fence I fall on. My knowledge of the sport, and my personal understanding of how fighters work is pretty lax. I'm still fairly new to the world of MMA. However, being someone who wants to see courage and fearlessness from fighters, I am disappointed with Jones. His decision has also stopped 21 other men from getting their pay checks - another point to think about.

But all that's by-the-by. I made this thread to read your thoughts, not to air mine.

To end this post, here are a couple of quotes from Dana White. Hot off the press (taken from UFC's Twitter feed).

• "We've never ever had a fighter refuse to fight a guy... every day, crazy shit happens, here's a new crazy one for us."
• "Jon Jones said 'I'm not fighting Chael Sonnen on 8 days' notice.'.. a world champion turned down a fight, that's never happened."

 

[Infinity]

I was absolutely floored by this announcement. It's unprecedented for the UFC under ZUFFA. I thought it was a joke to be honest with you. Once I realized this was really happening, I immediately was mad at Jon Jones, but after thinking it over, I blame this completely on Dana White & Joe Silva.

First of all, let's look at the fact that the Co-Main Event was finalized yesterday when it was announced that Jay Hieron would be replacing the injured Josh Koscheck to go up against Jake Ellenberger. So the Co-Main Event was supposed to be between two fighters coming off decisive losses? Then they thought replacing Koscheck with a fighter who hasn't been in the UFC in 6 years would suffice?

With the UFC having so many events in the year now, they're spreading their talent thin. Dana White is treating his big fight PPVs as if they were a boxing PPV. What I mean by that is, he knows everyone will pay to see Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen, so the rest of the card doesn't have to be very strong. Same thing here, Jon Jones is a star and he knows people will pay, and the rest of the card doesn't have to be as strong. Well, this time it came back and bit them in the ass.

Then, let's look at who declined to fight. Dan Henderson got injured. There's nothing he can do about that. Then Dana offered the fight to Lyoto Machida. Lyoto Machida earned his title shot when he knocked out Ryan Bader @ UFC on FOX 4 coupled with the fact that Shogun Rua had a lackluster performance. Machida knows that he's got a guaranteed title shot. Why in the world would he opt to take his title shot after an 8 day training camp? I'd applaud his bravado but question his intelligence. It was the smart move.

Then Dana asked Chael Sonnen if he wants the fight. This is just days after Dana White publicly acknowledging that it was going to take Chael at least 2 fights to get a title shot. He said if he defeated Forrest, his next fight would be against a Top 5 Light Heavyweight and see where it went from there. But, now Dana was put into the situation where all of a sudden, Chael getting an immediate title shot became the best option left. People would still pay to see that, for sure. Especially with Chael's ability to sell a fight and sell himself. Chael knew that Dana wanted him to fight 2 or 3 times before getting a title shot, and then all of a sudden he's offered one? Chael would be a fool to refuse the fight. He had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Then Dana went and asked Jon Jones if he was cool with taking on Chael Sonnen with 8 days notice, and he said no. You know what? That's smart. He had a full training camp to prepare for Dan Henderson, and all of a sudden it's switched. He's the champ, which means people make sacrifices to face him, not the other way around. Again, had he agreed I'd applaud his courage but question his intelligence. Not only that, I believe stylistically, Chael presents a huge danger to Jon Jones.

So now, a 3 week delay and we get Bones vs Machida. I hate this fight, I'm sure Jones will beat him AGAIN, and then hopefully Hendo can get healthy soon enough. That was a fight I was looking forward to.

 

[JWGunslinger]

It comes off as cowardly, I'm sure there's gonna be something Jon will say along the lines of Chael doesn't deserve it but the fact is he's a world champion and because he turned this fight down a card has been cancelled and the fans miss out big. It's idiotic that he doesn't want to fight because he's been preparing for someone else, he has been training to be ready to fight the day of 151, that's enough. Other people have to fight someone else due to the same circumstances and they all fight anyway, not only is Jones breaking that but the fact that he is the champion makes it more embarrassing.

He's now scheduled to headline 152 against Lyoto but right now there are a bunch of upset fans who now have tickets to an event that wont happen and a card full of fighters who have been preparing for their owns fights and now they're put on hold. Way to be a true champ Jon.

 

[jmt225]

First of all, hopefully this teaches a lesson to the UFC about these fucking one fight pay-per-view cards they've been spewing out lately. I've spouted the past month how shitty this UFC 151 card was despite the main event, and it came back to bite the UFC right in the ass. The chances of injury while training in this sport are too high for them to have shows with only one major fight.

As far as the whole thing about Jon Jones turning down the fight with Chael Sonnen is concerned... it honestly shocked me. As active and as great of a champion Jon Jones has been for the UFC, he's honestly the last person I would have expected this from. It doesn't matter who he's fighting... I'm positive the guy has had a full, fantastic training camp and is better than ever. He should have all the confidence in the World against ANYBODY at 205, let alone against a guy who probably only started training a week ago, if even that. I'm absolutely shocked Jon Jones turned the fight down. He let the company down, and he let the fans down by doing so.

All that said, I guess he has his reasons and we should all be respectful of that. He's the champion and has every right not to take a change of opponent on just 8 days notice. I'm sure Floyd Mayweather wouldn't have done it, either.

Also, like I said in the first paragraph, the UFC has no one to blame but themselves for making such a shit undercard and co-main event. That there is not Jon Jones' fault, so he shouldn't be plagued with the full blame of this card being canceled. Sure he could have saved it, but it was the UFC's incompetence and selfishness why the card needed saving in the first place.

 

[Slyfox696]

It comes off as cowardly, I'm sure there's gonna be something Jon will say along the lines of Chael doesn't deserve it but the fact is he's a world champion and because he turned this fight down a card has been cancelled and the fans miss out big. It's idiotic that he doesn't want to fight because he's been preparing for someone else, he has been training to be ready to fight the day of 151, that's enough. Other people have to fight someone else due to the same circumstances and they all fight anyway, not only is Jones breaking that but the fact that he is the champion makes it more embarrassing.

He's now scheduled to headline 152 against Lyoto but right now there are a bunch of upset fans who now have tickets to an event that wont happen and a card full of fighters who have been preparing for their owns fights and now they're put on hold. Way to be a true champ Jon.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with your opinion. Why aren't you upset that Machida declined to fight Jones? Here's a guy being offered a chance to fight for the title, and he turns it down. Isn't it more his fault than Jones? Or how about Henderson? Why aren't people criticizing Dan Henderson for not getting in the ring and fighting? His knee doesn't need surgery and official doctor prognosis is "stay off it for three weeks". Why doesn't he man up and quit being a "coward"?

Sonnen and Dan Henderson, I believe it's safe to say, are completely different fighters. It's easy for us to say "oh, be a man Jon Jones", but we're not the ones who is putting our bodies and even our careers on the line, not to mention getting physically assaulted. The argument is "well, other fighters do it"...that's great, those other fighters aren't Jon Jones. They aren't World Champions. They aren't worth millions of dollars.

It's asinine to ask a World Champion (not to mention your second biggest draw) to fight a COMPLETELY different style with a grand total of 8 days notice. It's even more asinine to be upset with him because he refuses.

 

[JWGunslinger]

I am upset about it, but the difference is that Lyoto just came off a fight earlier in the month and hasn't been training to fight. Jon has been preparing for his fight and is in the perfect state to get in there, granted he was training for Hendo but he is the one who's physically ready to go and was set to fight.

With Dan only he knows if he feels confident to fight and the degree to which it would effect him in the cage but you don't want to take a chance on your knee at his age and especially in this sport.

They are different fighters but that's what you get in this sport and when your opponent gets injured you never know what kind of guy will replace him. Some folks will say that others should step up and fight but champions should have a little more leeway but when you're a champion you're supposed to take on all comers. It's a shitty situation and the circumstances are not normal but when the fate of an entire fight card rests on you fighting and turning it down would mean a major hit for the company you step up and do it.

Ofcourse none of us can rightfully say what he should and shouldnt do because we aren't in his shoes but it was a chance for him to step up and do something for the good of the company in the fans and he chose not to. Honestly I think he would have taken out chael without too much trouble, but instead of another title defense at 151 now it'll be remembered as the card he killed.

 

[Slyfox696]

I am upset about it, but the difference is that Lyoto just came off a fight earlier in the month and hasn't been training to fight.

So? If Machida had agreed to fight, this show might still be on.

Jon has been preparing for his fight and is in the perfect state to get in there, granted he was training for Hendo but he is the one who's physically ready to go and was set to fight.

But you agree Henderson and Sonnen are completely different fighters, right?

With Dan only he knows if he feels confident to fight and the degree to which it would effect him in the cage but you don't want to take a chance on your knee at his age and especially in this sport.

Because...

This is his livelihood, right? This is how he makes his money to pay for his family, right? You do see where I'm going with this, right?

They are different fighters but that's what you get in this sport and when your opponent gets injured you never know what kind of guy will replace him.

Jones didn't say no to fighting Sonnen. He said no to fighting Sonnen with less than a week to prepare for him (including travel, etc.).

Some folks will say that others should step up and fight but champions should have a little more leeway but when you're a champion you're supposed to take on all comers.

Nonsense. Whoever said that clearly is thinking as a fan and not as a businessman.

The UFC is well known for its less than stellar payouts to fighters. And hey, I don't have a problem with that, no one forces them to fight for the UFC. But at the same time, Jon Jones is worth a lot of money, now and in the future. We know the UFC won't take care of Jones if he can no longer fight, so Jones has to take care of Jones. Which is what he's doing.

It's a shitty situation and the circumstances are not normal but when the fate of an entire fight card rests on you fighting and turning it down would mean a major hit for the company you step up and do it.

Or you tell the company to quit being so damned greedy by putting on a PPV every two weeks, and instead make sure you have at least two or three big name fights on the card, in case something like this does happen.

It's not the responsibility of Jones to save the UFC from their own mistakes. The responsibility of Jon Jones rests solely with Jon Jones.

Ofcourse none of us can rightfully say what he should and shouldnt do because we aren't in his shoes but it was a chance for him to step up and do something for the good of the company in the fans and he chose not to.

You mean besides all of those other fights he has already taken and entertained us with? You mean besides all those millions of dollars the UFC made from his PPV fights? You mean besides the millions of dollars Jones was going to make the UFC this Saturday against Henderson?

I think you're seriously underestimating how much good Jones already does for the company. Dana White is pissed, but he's pissed because Jones didn't bow down to his strong arm tactics. Dana White and Vince McMahon are very much alike. They both are control freaks and they do not handle it well when something doesn't go their way. I think McMahon has mellowed as the years have gone by, but White hasn't yet.

Honestly I think he would have taken out chael without too much trouble, but instead of another title defense at 151 now it'll be remembered as the card he killed.

Which is ridiculous. Machida could have said yes, Henderson could have stayed in, and the UFC could have put something besides Jake Ellenberger vs. Jay Hieron in the co-main event.

More than anything, this is the UFC's fault. They thought they had a great drawing main-event, so they put crap on the rest of the card. Don't blame Jones for the faults of others.

 

[Con T.]

But you agree Henderson and Sonnen are completely different fighters, right?

They are, but a fight with Chael Sonnen is actually something that had Bones taken it, would have been the perfect fight for him. I really wonder who is advising him (probably Greg Jackson), and Chael is a different wrestler. That said:

-Chael is coming up to his weight class, Bones is bigger than him.
-Sonnen hasn't trained; he's coming off an ass kicking to Anderson Silva, and I highly doubt Chael has spent his time preparing for Bones.
-Chael, stylistically, has a worse chance than either Henderon or Machida had, especially against Jones.

The move is perplexing, because Jones literally has every advantage going into the fight. Jones is in shape, Sonnen isn't; Jones is bigger, and can wrestle well to neutralize Chael's wrestling. I really have no problem with what Jones did, but it's far more confusing than anything else. Sure, Jones hasn't trained for Chael, but unless we're going to argue a massive conspiracy theory, Chael hasn't trained for anybody, let alone a wrestler that, stylistically, makes for a relatively easy fight for Jones. Jones got handed a guy who could promote a fight, draw some decent money (probably not as much as it would have if Chael hadn't just lost his last fight), and fight a guy that you can say with relative ease you could beat this guy. Realistically, there isn't much risk to this Chael fight, but there is a lot to be lost, especially in the public eye, for saying no to it.

At the end of the day, though, this is more than a Bones matter; this is an issue with the cards that UFC has been creating. The truth is, there's just way too much product that UFC has to dole out, that it is stretching the cards way too thin. But the thing that I've heard few people point out is how Dana White let his emotions get to him, and screw himself out of a good gate, and the people that were going to the Denver show. Anderson Silva actually called Dana, and told him that he would have fought on 151 against another lightheavyweight fighter (not Bones, that fight will never happen), and that could have earned quite a bit of money. Silva's fought, but he can probably roll out of bed and beat most of the lightheavyweights; maybe you give him a fight with Rashad Evans (maybe the fight wouldn't be great, but it is two big names in UFC). But, Dana had already called off the entire show, because he's pissed at Bones. Dana White is probably the greatest thing to ever happen to UFC, but in a lot of ways, he also winds up hurting them pretty badly, especially when things like this happen. It's times like these where the Ferittita's are really important to UFC, and where Dana's ********edness gets the better of him.

Unfortunately,
In this squabble of children
We are all punished

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

I'm literally sitting here scratching my head about the whole champion turning down fights. As champion, you are required to fight when a fight is brought up. You are representing the brand and even the sport as champion in the largest Mixed Martial Arts organization.

Jon Jones while he has been active, fighting the most out of any UFC Champion at any weight, he is still obligated to fight and as a fighter he should want to step back into the Octagon. This is starting to be a trend of Jones' in all honesty. He openly admitted to being against a fight with Lyoto Machida less than a fortnight ago labelling it "Low reward and high risk". That to me an most others I have talked to about this as an act of him not wanting to fight what was his most damaging fight. It all stems from the fact that Lyoto was able to land on him with his vastly superior speed and striking.

He wants nothing of Lyoto.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm literally sitting here scratching my head about the whole champion turning down fights. As champion, you are required to fight when a fight is brought up. You are representing the brand and even the sport as champion in the largest Mixed Martial Arts organization.

Jon Jones while he has been active, fighting the most out of any UFC Champion at any weight, he is still obligated to fight and as a fighter he should want to step back into the Octagon. This is starting to be a trend of Jones' in all honesty. He openly admitted to being against a fight with Lyoto Machida less than a fortnight ago labelling it "Low reward and high risk". That to me an most others I have talked to about this as an act of him not wanting to fight what was his most damaging fight. It all stems from the fact that Lyoto was able to land on him with his vastly superior speed and striking.

He wants nothing of Lyoto.

Jones was going to fight Machida at 152, but Machida turned it down. I would suggest Machida is much less interested in the fight than Jones.

But Jones is right too. He should be getting fights which will see the most PPVs. I'm sure he gets a cut of the PPV business, so he should be doing what he can to maximize his revenue. This is business, plain and simple.

The problem is that Dana White, and UFC fans, don't want professional fighters, they want neanderthals, who will walk into a cage and beat each other to hell. For all their talk about how this is a sport and it's about skill and technique, etc., White and fans don't want that, they want two barbarians ripping each other's head off. Dana White isn't mad Jones turned him down, White is mad he can't control Jones. And the idea it's Jones responsibility to cover the UFC's butt when the UFC makes risky moves that don't pay off is silly.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

All in all you can't blame Jones for refusing the fight, I don't care who you are 8 days notice is not enough time to get ready for a completely different opponent as Henderson and Sonnen are very different fighters.

It's kind of a low blow to UFC and the fans that the event got cancelled but at the same time it was a 1 fight card which UFC can only blame themselves for. The 1 big fight gets cancelled so the event must follow suit.

People can say Jones is a bitch and should fight but almost any big money fighter would have done the same thing and many of them have in the past, especially since its a high risk, no reward situation and makes little to no business sense. If you aren't properly prepared for a fight the risk is much greater to lose said fight (see Douglas vs. Tyson. Not the same situation but Tyson didn't take Douglas seriously and wasn't prepared because of it) and if Jon Jones loses this fight his stock and bankbook drops significantly.

Its smart to refuse the fight and even if Jone's fans turn their backs on him for backing out surely they will still pay to watch him get beat. Either way Jones makes money and smartly protects himself.