UFC 121: Lesnar vs. Velasquez - HAPPY BROCKTOBER!!

[ITurnGirlsGay]

The main event went exactly as I thought I would. I knew Brock would come out aggressive and try to bully Cain around the octagon as he normally does. He quickly found out that wasn't going to work against Cain because of his superior technique on both the ground and in the stand-up.

Even when Brock pressed the action very early on throwing overhands and flying knees, Cain stood in the pocket and wouldn't back down from Lesnar. Lesnar probably figured out then that standing and trading with a guy who has superior hands wasn't his key to victory, so he attempted take-downs. Cain utilized a beautiful butterfly guard to keep Lesnar from advancing his position and worked his way back to the feet where he was clearly the better fighter.

The rest was pretty much elementary. Cain had the more technical striking going into this fight, he been in more stand-up wars, knew how to maintain his composure in the face of adversity, and displayed his overall better skill-set. So many fighters would have attempted to finish Lesnar on the feet when they saw the stand-up game was in their favor, Velasquez changed levels and eliminated the possibility of a one-punch knockout that we all know Lesnar can land with those hands.

This is text-book evolution of a very young and promising fighter. Velasquez and Dos Santos are clearly the future of this heavyweight division and really hope we see some epic battles between them.

As far as Shields, fuck him. He didn't show me ANYTHING. All he proved last night was if he tries to beat GSP with that sort of approach he's going to wash out faster than he arrived. If Kampmann hadn't fought his fight, I'm sure that Kampmann could have walked out of there with the win.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Cain Velasquez where to begin. Brock Lesnar looked like he was going to control the fight in the early moments, but as soon as he got to the ground with Lesnar and easily evaded some of the ground positions he was in with Lesnar, it really showcased what Lesnar needs to work on. Standing up Cain was just too technical for Brock, just what Armbar was saying to me in the lead up to the fight and Velasquez was just too smart and layed back picked his shots and picked up a deserving win. Cain Velasquez believe me will have a lengthy run with that title.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Cain Velasquez where to begin. Brock Lesnar looked like he was going to control the fight in the early moments, but as soon as he got to the ground with Lesnar and easily evaded some of the ground positions he was in with Lesnar, it really showcased what Lesnar needs to work on. Standing up Cain was just too technical for Brock, just what Armbar was saying to me in the lead up to the fight and Velasquez was just too smart and layed back picked his shots and picked up a deserving win. Cain Velasquez believe me will have a lengthy run with that title.

As with most things, I am reticent to say that Velasquez will have a lengthy run with his title. First and foremost he has an upcoming fight with someone who's a far superior striker than himself and moves just as quickly if not more quickly than him.

To assume Velasquez will just get past Dos Santos is a bad assumption. Junior Dos Santos is probably the best striker in the heavyweight division. He's got incredible hand speed, great footwork, solid kicks, good take down defense, and a much more extensive working knowledge of jiu-jitsu. I think this is a very difficult match-up for Velasquez. For the first time he won't have the clear speed advantage. Big Nog has never been a great technical striker, Lesnar's striking is horrible, and Velasquez had to put Kongo on his back because he was getting out-worked in the stand-up department. Junior Dos Santos is not Kongo once he's on his back. He's a dangerous submission artist who trains under one of the best in the world. If I were a betting man, I'd probably be more inclined to pick Dos Santos in that fight.

Then again, we haven't seen what Dos Santos can do with an explosive wrestler. I believe Dos Santos hands Velasquez his first loss and Cain learns from his experience, continues to grow, and defeats him in a rematch.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

As with most things, I am reticent to say that Velasquez will have a lengthy run with his title. First and foremost he has an upcoming fight with someone who's a far superior striker than himself and moves just as quickly if not more quickly than him.

To assume Velasquez will just get past Dos Santos is a bad assumption. Junior Dos Santos is probably the best striker in the heavyweight division. He's got incredible hand speed, great footwork, solid kicks, good take down defense, and a much more extensive working knowledge of jiu-jitsu. I think this is a very difficult match-up for Velasquez. For the first time he won't have the clear speed advantage. Big Nog has never been a great technical striker, Lesnar's striking is horrible, and Velasquez had to put Kongo on his back because he was getting out-worked in the stand-up department. Junior Dos Santos is not Kongo once he's on his back. He's a dangerous submission artist who trains under one of the best in the world. If I were a betting man, I'd probably be more inclined to pick Dos Santos in that fight.

Then again, we haven't seen what Dos Santos can do with an explosive wrestler. I believe Dos Santos hands Velasquez his first loss and Cain learns from his experience, continues to grow, and defeats him in a rematch.

I am confident in saying that Cain Velasquez's wrestling ability will be very hard for Dos Santos to handle, it will truly test Dos Santos's takedown defense. You claim Dos Santos is a superior striker yeah in certain aspects, but believe Cain can outstrike Dos Santos that is a given. Look at this fun fact Cain Velasquez has outlanded his last five opponents by a tally of 491 to 63 that is some alarming numbers for his opponents. Now i am not saying Cain will brush Dos Santos aside it will test him but i truly believe that Cain will come out on top when he fights Junior Dos Santos.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I am confident in saying that Cain Velasquez's wrestling ability will be very hard for Dos Santos to handle, it will truly test Dos Santos's takedown defense. You claim Dos Santos is a superior striker yeah in certain aspects, but believe Cain can outstrike Dos Santos that is a given. Look at this fun fact Cain Velasquez has outlanded his last five opponents by a tally of 491 to 63 that is some alarming numbers for his opponents. Now i am not saying Cain will brush Dos Santos aside it will test him but i truly believe that Cain will come out on top when he fights Junior Dos Santos.

No, that is not a given. I don't honestly see how you can sit here and tell me that Velasquez, ON ANY LEVEL, is a better striker than Junior Dos Santos. Dos Santos is not a better striker than Velasquez in some aspects, he's a better striker than him in ALL aspects.

Of those opponents you're claiming he outstruck only one of them has any credentials in the stand-up game. Nog is a submission specialist, Rothwell is just sort of there, nothing too special about him, and Lesnar has crap stand-up. Kongo is the only fighter on Velasquez's resume with heavy striking credentials. You're clearly making mountains out of molehills.

Let's examine Dos Santos' last opponents. Nelson, okay I'll concede that, but Nelson has shown he has knockout power. Yvel, if you don't think this is impressive you clearly need to look at Yvel's stand-up he's won 31 of his 36 fights via knockout. He didn't last a round on the feet with Dos Santos.

Mirko Cro Cop, absolutely destroyed on the feet by Dos Santos. I don't think I need to break-down Mirko's striking credentials and Dos Santos LITERALLY beat him into submission, the only fighter to EVER do that to Cro Cop. Struve is a lengthy kickboxer with decent range and formidable striking, knocked out in 54 seconds.

Dos Santos has been boxing/kick-boxing his whole life, Velasquez has been doing this for about 4 years.

Look, I like Velasquez, but he IS not going to out-strike Dos Santos. I will take a bet on that any day of the week. Also, I've already stated that Velasquez may get Dos Santos to the ground, but then he has to deal with a Nogueira brown-belt on the ground. Which is the equivalent of a Guerrilla Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

You believe what you want to believe, but there are absolutely no aspects of the stand-up in which Velasquez is on Dos Santos' level. That's not me nuthugging Dos Santos, that's a fact. Dos Santos made his way into the UFC because of his high-level striking. Most pundits agree that at this point, Dos Santos is the best striker in the UFC heavyweight division, as a matter of fact, I think the only heavyweight in the world that's a better technical striker than Dos Santos would probably be Overeem.

 

[Reddannihilation]

but then he has to deal with a Nogueira brown-belt on the ground. Which is the equivalent of a Guerrilla Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

Which is the equivalent to a toy in a happy meal. Sonnen RULES!!!

But seriously JDS vs Cain is gonna be awesome, probably a stand up war which honestly, I see JDS winning. If it does go to the ground it should be a great grappling fight. My early prediction says JDS wins if it stays standing and Cain's best chance is if it goes to the ground.

For this card, disappointed. I thought Brock would win, at the very least I wanted it to go the 2nd round. Did neither, angry face. Jake Shields shouldn't have cut to WW, that's the worst condition I've ever seen him in, he's usually got great conditioning, however Kampmann is a fucking idiot trying to finish Jake with a sub. Hamill did well and I think he's might still have a chance of making the top-10. Diego did well too.

But the card was fairly bland, Shields' fight was very lacking compared to what I'm used to from him. Brock's was embarrassing especially after he got hit and started break dancing to escape. Hamill's win adds a name to his resume but Ortiz has been past it for a long time and Diego's fight was the only one I really enjoyed. Still looking forward to JDS vs Cain.

 

[Via Armbar]

I see y'all arguing about who the better striker is between Dos Santos and Cain. Here's how I'd break it down:

Technicality

Dos Santos is a more technical striker, no doubt about it. When you've got a guy who is already a good technical striker in Cain that's really saying something. Cain has great targeting but doesn't follow though to it with as much technicality and precision that Dos Santos does.

Power

They're pretty even here, but I might actually give an edge to Cain here. That doesn't mean much though when your opponent has one punch knockout power, something we haven't really seen from Cain. Velasquez is a swarmer. He's going to overwhelm you with powerful clean shots until you start to wilt and then finish you on the ground. Dos Santos throws punches to end fights with that punch. His uppercut is timed so damn well and is so accurate that it trumps the potentially more powerful strikes of Cain.

Combos

They tie up here. Cain has amazing combinations and timing. look at his knockout of Big Nog and you can see him setting up that shot after the first exchange. Again though, with the exception of the Nog fight, he uses his combos as set ups for either a take down or a swarming on the ground. Junior's combos are snappier, quicker and more precise. He likes to set up that fight ending upper cut with a right jab, left hook and immediately come up with the uppercut. It seems that his combos have that huge exclamation point at the end that Cain's don't. Still, pretty even.

Defense

Honestly neither have great striking defense. Dos Santos showed in the fight with Roy that he tends to leave himself open after combos and is terribly flat footed at times. Cain does the same and took straight shots from Kongo multiple times. An area both should work on, especially for this fight.

The fight is a toss up right now and I wouldn't feel comfortable making a prediction just yet, but it's cool to look at where they differ in terms of striking.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I see y'all arguing about who the better striker is between Dos Santos and Cain. Here's how I'd break it down:

Technicality

Dos Santos is a more technical striker, no doubt about it. When you've got a guy who is already a good technical striker in Cain that's really saying something. Cain has great targeting but doesn't follow though to it with as much technicality and precision that Dos Santos does.

Power

They're pretty even here, but I might actually give an edge to Cain here. That doesn't mean much though when your opponent has one punch knockout power, something we haven't really seen from Cain. Velasquez is a swarmer. He's going to overwhelm you with powerful clean shots until you start to wilt and then finish you on the ground. Dos Santos throws punches to end fights with that punch. His uppercut is timed so damn well and is so accurate that it trumps the potentially more powerful strikes of Cain.

Combos

They tie up here. Cain has amazing combinations and timing. look at his knockout of Big Nog and you can see him setting up that shot after the first exchange. Again though, with the exception of the Nog fight, he uses his combos as set ups for either a take down or a swarming on the ground. Junior's combos are snappier, quicker and more precise. He likes to set up that fight ending upper cut with a right jab, left hook and immediately come up with the uppercut. It seems that his combos have that huge exclamation point at the end that Cain's don't. Still, pretty even.

Defense

Honestly neither have great striking defense. Dos Santos showed in the fight with Roy that he tends to leave himself open after combos and is terribly flat footed at times. Cain does the same and took straight shots from Kongo multiple times. An area both should work on, especially for this fight.

The fight is a toss up right now and I wouldn't feel comfortable making a prediction just yet, but it's cool to look at where they differ in terms of striking.

I would agree with your assessment of power and combinations.

When it comes to power with Velasquez and Dos Santos it's really 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. I would never dispute that Velasquez doesn't have raw power with great combinations. Hell, Sports Science proved he's got more power than any heavyweight boxer ever to appear on their show.

There's one thing about Dos Santos' combinations that cause me to give him a slight edge, however, unlike Chuck Liddell who ended fights with his overhand right, Dos Santos has the ability to end the fight coming from any angle. You have to be worried about that devastating uppercut, the overhand, his jab is even a brutal set-up to a fight ending punch. Roy Nelson's head was snapping back like one of the punching clowns with the sand at the bottom that we had as kids during his fight with Dos Santos.

However, when it comes to defensive striking I slightly disagree with you. Feel free to disagree with this assessment, but I believe that Dos Santos fights to the level of his competition. This is, of course a mistake, but nonetheless, I feel that it's true. If you look at the body of work by both fighters heading into this fight I think it's pretty clear cut that JDS has faced the better strikers and walked out without any damage. Velasquez, on the other hand, was getting rocked on his feet by Kongo. To his credit, he didn't back down and exploded through being rocked with a takedown, but Kongo isn't the best with take-down defense. Nor is Kongo any good on the ground.

Dos Santos absolutely destroyed Yvel, Struve, Cro Cop, and Nelson. He looked unscathed after all of those fights. I mean, the striking clinic that he put on one of the best strikers in MMA history, regardless of whether or not Cro Cop appears to be past his prime, was relatively amazing. He outpointed Cro Cop, landed the heavier shots, avoided almost all punishment from Cro Cop and ended the fight by beating him into a verbal submission. That's pretty fucking impressive.

Is Velasquez a good striker, absolutely, do I think he's on JDS' level, not yet. I honestly believe that he will lose to JDS but beat him in a rematch. I see these two young men as the Sylvia-Arlovski of the modern HW division. Except both are better than those two and will provide more entertainment for a longer period of time. You can probably get 3 maybe even 4 good fights out of these two considering that they are 28 and 26 years old and haven't even peaked.