TUF - Time to Remove the Alcohol from the House?

[IrishCanadian25]

So for those who haven't seen yet, Wrestlezone Forums' MMA moderator 'GuyCompton' has posted a report that Chris Leben has once again been arrested for being an idiot - this time drinking and driving without a license or insurance. Read about that here:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=71073

Sigh.

With the aggressive nature of MMA, it just seems like common sense that alcohol will be a challenge for several of the fighters. Sure, a bunch of them live clean lives and many of them don't drink at all. Some just drink their own urine (because it's sterile and I like the taste?) such as Lyoto Machida. But the live fast, die hard lifestyle of many MMA fighters seems to give way to alcohol abuse.

Think not only of Chris Leben, but of both the Browning Brothers, Junie and Rob.

So I think it's time for MMA to take the booze out of the house during "The Ultimate Fighter."

I get why its there - it's a spark next to the match that sits atop the puddle of grease. You take a mess of hyper-competitive, hyper-aggressive alpha males, lock them in a house with the very people they will have to knock out or choke out in order to win, remove television or any other distractions they may have access to, and give them free access to a 24-hour open bar.

Spark. Pffffttt. WHHOOOOSSSHHHHH!

Broken doors. Pissed-on mattresses. Inflammatory words ('fatherless bastard' ring a bell). Fights outside the Octagon.

It's freaking immature. But it attracts viewers, so they keep the liquor in the house. It also forces these athletes to make a choice - show some self-discipline or risk humiliating yourself on national TV.

To me, with so many issues of alcoholism in these types of sports, UFC is not only condoning it, but promoting it. "Oh, your step dad used to get drunk and beat you growing up, and that's why you fight? I'm so sorry to hear it. Here's your big house and there's your stocked bar. Give'em a good show."

It seems like the WWE takes so much criticism for their talents being on painkillers, alcohol, steroids, and drugs. Are we giving UFC a pass for being new? Or are we still SO entertained by these guys that we are willing to ignore it the same way we ignored steroids in baseball as long as the Home Run chase was covered?

UFC needs to be pro-active here, not re-active. By that, I mean they should take the liquor out of the house and explain to fans that they don't advocate alcohol abuse and want their fighters to stay disciplined. That they don't want to put fighters with checkered pasts at risk.

In short, do everything WWE and Pro Boxing have failed at miserably, and come out better for it.

 

[MarcusFenixX]

This is insane. Sorry man but i disagree completely with you. Not bashing your opinion, your entitled to one along with everyone else but i dont see it. Im not condoning drinking and driving. Yes alcohol causes many people to do dumb things but take the alcohol out of MMA altogether?

MMA is an art form, its skill and technique. The Octagon is like the modern day colliseum known for its gladiators and warriors. But it is also a brawl, ruthless punches to the face and head, which in more times then not causes blood. PEOPLE LOVE VIOLENCE! As you said, but people also love to have a beer and watch violence. If a drunken brawl happens, they should just settle it in the ring. Its up to each and every person to take responsibility for themselves, fighters and spectators.

 

[deadelviX]

what?? why should they remove alcohol from the house? this isn't day camp. these are grown up fighters that need to take care of themselves and be responsible for their OWN actions. if they can't handle the liquor... than they have to deal with the repercussions.

alcohol exists in the outside world. so whether they're in that house or not, they're going to have access to it. it's not up to the producers of the show to babysit these guys. it's only their jobs to teach them how to fight and train them to be pros.

...and Tito Ortiz wasn't drunk when HE knocked the door off the hinges in the last season.

 

[D-Man]

I'm not going to be like the last two posters and bash your way of thinking. It's very admirable for you to come out and be an advocate for an alcohol-free domicile. However, it wouldn't be good television without it, would it?

At the end of the day, TUF is a reality television show. They need ratings in order to stay on the air. Drama, fighting, and drunken antics have always been a formula for attracting good reality television (just ask MTV). So even though the UFC's business is in good fights and fighting, they're also television producers and need to create a product that draws people to watch. This, in turn, will gain advertisers and bring in more money for the UFC.

As a famous musician said once, it's all about the Benjamins, baby.

...and Tito Ortiz wasn't drunk when HE knocked the door off the hinges in the last season.

Um, I believe he was referring to Chris Leben putting his fist through the glass front door and destroying his bedroom door in season one after Koscheck poured water on him.

 

[deadelviX]

Um, I believe he was referring to Chris Leben putting his fist through the glass front door and destroying his bedroom door in season one after Koscheck poured water on him.

yeah i know... i was just trying to put a little emphasis on how tempers flair and 'door destruction' happens. i capitalized "HE"....to imply that i was referring to someone other than Leben. poor execution. lol

 

[jmt225]

I agree with IC on the message, but not the argument he decided to portray.

My argument is that as each day goes by, the sport gets bigger and bigger, which means more and more fighters become role models to all types of people out there, from children to teenagers to grown men. It's not good to have fighters represent your sport while showing them under the influence of alcohol. Did Hard Knocks ever show any of the Jets players drunk? Of course not, because the NFL and the Jets organization doesn't want the audience to see their players in that fashion. And if the UFC ever wants MMA to become a true top 5 sport in this country, the fighters they decide to show on television need to look like professionals, not drunken buffoons.

No sports major organization would EVER show the players that represent their league in the manner TUF shows MMA fighters. It's just not how professional athletes and role models should be looked at, bottom line.

Now, as far as IC's argument... I definitely see where he's coming from, but at the end of the day... these guys are big boys. They make their own decisions; no one makes it for them. The alcohol is there for their choosing. The show doesn't force them to drink; it's their own CHOICE whether or not that decide to partake in it. Any bad decision made by anybody under the influence alcohol is their own fault, period. If they can't handle being drunk, then don't drink. It's that simple.

 

[Via Armbar]

MMA is an art form, its skill and technique. The Octagon is like the modern day colliseum known for its gladiators and warriors. But it is also a brawl, ruthless punches to the face and head, which in more times then not causes blood. PEOPLE LOVE VIOLENCE! As you said, but people also love to have a beer and watch violence. If a drunken brawl happens, they should just settle it in the ring. Its up to each and every person to take responsibility for themselves, fighters and spectators.

What you are saying is that providing alcohol in the house promotes violence and stupidity outside of the cage, the one place it is supposed to be kept. Congratulations for making his point for him.

I'm going to disagree with you here IC for a few reasons:

How often is alcohol a point of the show anymore?

The answer to that is not very. As the seasons have progressed the goings on of the TUF house have been limited to only a few minutes per episode. The show has shifted focus to what is going on in the gym and what little we see of the house is usually fighters focusing on their upcoming fights. There have been a few instances from the past few season that showcased the fighters having a couple drinks, and even fewer than that cases where things got out of control. You can reflect on the first couple seasons of TUF and a large majority of the show was the ruckus from the house or fighter interaction outside of training. The time devoted to these things have died out rather drastically.

An asshole is an asshole.

One of the men you had mentioned was Junie Browning. What would be a great example to support your case also lends itself to my theory...being a douche is in the blood and not at the end of a bottle. Not to say that alcohol isn't an inhibitor because I would be going against any bar fight I've ever seen. Still, Browning acted like a jackass plenty of times on the show when alcohol wasn't involved. Even after a victory he decided to grace us with his ass hat antics. The same can be said for many of the shows more errr colorful characters. Leben was a short fused and unpredictable slob whether he was drinking or was as dry as the Vegas dessert. There have been more fighters that handled themselves jut fine when a little tipsy then there have been Junie Browning's or Chris Leben's. The show has transitioned from a Real World type game show to a legitimate mixed martial arts competition. The show has matured, as has the fighters on it. Believe me when I say there will always be a trouble maker on the show. You can take the booze out of the asshole, but you can't take the asshole out of the asshole.

Who watches TUF exactly?

Well fans of mixed martial arts obviously, but do we have 8 year olds watching? Are their impressionable little minds sitting out home watching Fighter X getting wild after a shot of Patron and thinking to themselves "Yeah, I definitely want to be an ultimate fighter"? Possibly, you can never tell exactly who's watching what. My point is that the majority of the viewers that TUF brings in are of age enough to know right from wrong. How do I know this? Because they are watching a show where grown men beat the shit out of each other with intentions to render their opponent unconscious. Yet, they know you don't go around starting fights with people like that and that this is a professional sport. If the viewers at home are going to take away the wrong message from the alcoholic behavior that some of the shows participants have show, wouldn't they also think it's okay to carry out real life violence? To me, the image of machismo and conditioned violence is just as if not more impressionable than the image of alcohol usage inside the TUF house.

The UFC knows what they're doing.

Zuffa and friends have taken an incredibly smart business route in following Vince McMahon. Everything from the pay per view structure to the weekly episodic show and merchandising, Dana has taken a huge piece of influence from Vince. That includes marketing. As made very clear by the current ''PG Era" of the WWE it's obvious that they know who they are marketing towards and for. The UFC is no different in that. The have recently been banning certain sponsors from UFC events. The reasons very but the it's plain as day to see that they know what is best for their product and how it is seen. Especially given the stigma it already has. If alcohol in the house was a big problem or they felt like it wasn't best for the exponential growth of the company...it would be gone very fast. They have done very well in the past 10 years to recreate a new image for themselves and doesn't carry around as much of the stigma it used to have. Since they have come under fire more for violence rather than the alcohol related mishaps of the TUF house, I'd say they have things under control.

Zuffa realizes that these are grown men. These guys for the most part have been well behaved on the show and half of the time when they weren't alcohol wasn't even involved. It's very apparent that people treat such inappropriate actions as a reflection of the person and not of the company or the show. If there were something more problematic in this situation that could effect the company or the fighters, actions would have been taken already. Leben's arrest happened far after his season ended. And I have a feeling that we haven't heard the last bit of bad news regarding Browning and his UFC contract was terminated a year ago. My feelings are these men are slobs and would have been that way even if TUF never entered their lives. Let's not let one or two bad eggs ruin the dozen.

It might be a good step for them to take, eliminating alcohol from the house. It wouldn't give the media any chance to shit on a sport that gets enough of it already. It isn't a step they HAVE to take, but definitely one that should be considered in the future. It just isn't a huge problem right now.

 

[D-Man]

I agree with IC on the message, but not the argument he decided to portray.

My argument is that as each day goes by, the sport gets bigger and bigger, which means more and more fighters become role models to all types of people out there, from children to teenagers to grown men. It's not good to have fighters represent your sport while showing them under the influence of alcohol. Did Hard Knocks ever show any of the Jets players drunk? Of course not, because the NFL and the Jets organization doesn't want the audience to see their players in that fashion. And if the UFC ever wants MMA to become a true top 5 sport in this country, the fighters they decide to show on television need to look like professionals, not drunken buffoons.

No sports major organization would EVER show the players that represent their league in the manner TUF shows MMA fighters. It's just not how professional athletes and role models should be looked at, bottom line.

Now, as far as IC's argument... I definitely see where he's coming from, but at the end of the day... these guys are big boys. They make their own decisions; no one makes it for them. The alcohol is there for their choosing. The show doesn't force them to drink; it's their own CHOICE whether or not that decide to partake in it. Any bad decision made by anybody under the influence alcohol is their own fault, period. If they can't handle being drunk, then don't drink. It's that simple.

To sum a lot of this up, we need to actually applaud the UFC a bit for this. If you really think about it, they're showing the REALITY of the lives of these fighters without omission of their drinking habits. So I'm sure they'll stand behind their program in a sense that they're giving us the REAL reality television that we crave.

But, in the end, the fighters ARE adults and need to make their own adult decisions.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Let me just say THANK GOD. I was getting tired of writing these op-ed peices and then getting 8 posts on people agreeing with me. NOW we can work with this.

this isn't day camp. these are grown up fighters that need to take care of themselves and be responsible for their OWN actions. if they can't handle the liquor... than they have to deal with the repercussions.

Locking 16 males, aged 21-34, in a large house together with no television or other media in an atmosphere where they will be fighting one another - and then adding all you can drink - is borderline expolitative. Then again, I suppose that's the very definition of reality TV. It's one thing to expect someone to act a certain way in the right circumstances, but I think it's clear that UFC is setting the stage to almost ensure something alcohol-related happens every season.

alcohol exists in the outside world. so whether they're in that house or not, they're going to have access to it.

In scenarios where they don't live with 15 other dudes whose sold objective is to knock out or choke out everyone who stands in their way. In scenarios where other outlets - television, for example - exist. There is a BIG difference between the weeks and weeks they are locked in a house on TUF vs when they are home with family, wifes, kids, and other responsibilities.

It's very admirable for you to come out and be an advocate for an alcohol-free domicile. However, it wouldn't be good television without it, would it?

That's the overwhelming concern. Where does the line get drawn?

Take the steroids out of baseball and the passion of the home run chase isn't there anymore, is it?

Football is talking about suspending players for certain types of hits. Loses some of the roughness and violence that makes football, doesn't it?

Pro wrestlers have gotten a lot smaller and take longer to come back from injuries without steroids, don't they?

But all three sports did what they had to do - sacrificed ratings and 'good tv' to protect the athletes participating in them.

these guys are big boys. They make their own decisions; no one makes it for them.

If it were that simple, diseases such as alcoholoism and habits such as smoking wouldn't exist.

The alcohol is there for their choosing. The show doesn't force them to drink; it's their own CHOICE whether or not that decide to partake in it.

Being kept in a house with 15 other guys your age is pretty much the very definition of peer pressure. That's hard enough to overcome - add into the mix that you have to be there for weeks on end and it makes it hard to 'just say no.'

Any bad decision made by anybody under the influence alcohol is their own fault, period. If they can't handle being drunk, then don't drink. It's that simple.

No, it's not that simple. When you factor in issues like emotional problems and alcoholism, it's FAR from that simple.

The answer to that is not very. As the seasons have progressed the goings on of the TUF house have been limited to only a few minutes per episode.

Agreed. Why? Because the fans who tune in do so largely for the training aspect and the fights themselves. To see who the next big star may be. The next Forrest Griffin, Diego Sanchez, Matt Hamill, Michael Bisping, etc.

Still, Browning acted like a jackass plenty of times on the show when alcohol wasn't involved. Even after a victory he decided to grace us with his ass hat antics.

Ass hat is such an underrated term.

You can't deny that the alcohol in the hands of an alcoholic - ass hat in the best of times or not - enhances these problems. Junie Browning was actually talented, too. Had he been in the house and had 8 weeks drink-free, maybe it would have provided him with the clean-up he needed.

Well fans of mixed martial arts obviously, but do we have 8 year olds watching? Are their impressionable little minds sitting out home watching Fighter X getting wild after a shot of Patron and thinking to themselves "Yeah, I definitely want to be an ultimate fighter"? Possibly, you can never tell exactly who's watching what. My point is that the majority of the viewers that TUF brings in are of age enough to know right from wrong.

I'm not arguing on the basis of protecting the fans. The show has the rating it does and is on late at night on Spike TV. If an 8 year old is watching, I just hope the parent knows about it. My argument is for protecting the fighters.

Zuffa and friends have taken an incredibly smart business route in following Vince McMahon. Everything from the pay per view structure to the weekly episodic show and merchandising, Dana has taken a huge piece of influence from Vince. That includes marketing.

Does that also include waiting until it's too late to institute a wellness policy? Does that also include turning a blind eye to a major issue many of the participants have with dependency? If so, then mission accomplished.

Leben's arrest happened far after his season ended. And I have a feeling that we haven't heard the last bit of bad news regarding Browning and his UFC contract was terminated a year ago.

Both involved alcohol.

You can't ban alcohol from the sport entirely. It's unrealistic. When they are home, they can drink. But having free booze in a house of testosterone-laden 20-somethings is just asking for trouble and exploiting - almost celebrating - their issues.

If you really think about it, they're showing the REALITY of the lives of these fighters without omission of their drinking habits. So I'm sure they'll stand behind their program in a sense that they're giving us the REAL reality television that we crave.

Yes, a realistic look at what happens when these guys go home to their normal lives of living with 15 other guys and having unrestricted access to as much hard liquor as their puny livers desire. THAT'S real reality TV.

 

[D-Man]

IC25, don't think I don't agree with you. But then again, if we're going to take the alcohol out of the TUF house, why don't we take it out of the Real World house? Or the Jersey Shore house? Or the Big Brother house? While we're at it, let's eliminate alcohol from the world. Then cigarettes next. Then we'll end the war in Afghanistan.

My point is that while your ploy is extremely admirable, we're not a bunch of Mother Theresas. We live in a world where terrible things like this exist for the shitty purposes of good television and entertainment. People in this world make a living off others' dismay. That's the true reality.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

IC25, don't think I don't agree with you. But then again, if we're going to take the alcohol out of the TUF house, why don't we take it out of the Real World house? Or the Jersey Shore house? Or the Big Brother house? While we're at it, let's eliminate alcohol from the world. Then cigarettes next. Then we'll end the war in Afghanistan.

My point is that while your ploy is extremely admirable, we're not a bunch of Mother Theresas. We live in a world where terrible things like this exist for the shitty purposes of good television and entertainment. People in this world make a living off others' dismay. That's the true reality.

Ah, the old "Slippery Slope" defense?

In many cases, the jackwagons on Real World and ESPECIALLY on Jersey Shore are short-term investments. The MTV's of the world ride out the show's popularity as long as possible and then drop it for the 'next best thing.'

The participants on The Ultimate Fighter are athletes - people the UFC are often making a longer term investment in. Once again, not unlike baseball players or professional wrestlers. It's irresponsible to think that UFC doesn't view these guys as long-term assets.

Here's another thing - UFC is very proud of being 'safe.' How it brought respectability to MMA; what used to be a human cock-fight is not a weight-class organized, sanctioned event with rules, scores, judges, and accountability. Not only would removing the liquor from the house shield them from accountability or public outcry should (god forbid) something bad happen, but it could serve as a proactive publicity statement.

Again, I'm not just on a moral soapbox here. It's about protecting the fighters and not exploiting serious issues like alcoholism and emotional stress.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I agree with you up to a point IrishCanadian. To remove alcohol because a couple of fighters make poor decisions is punishing the whole because of a couple parts. There are plenty of fighters who live in that house that either A.) don't drink or B.) moderate their drinking.

We know that there are those in there, like Alex Caceres and Junie Browning and Chris Leben that do not know how to handle their alcohol or just make poor decision while drinking, but the majority of fighters in the UFC conduct themselves with dignity while drinking.

Also, what's the point of removing an element that, to be perfectly honest, if they already have a problem with, is going to show itself upon them leaving the house? It's not like they develop alcoholism in the house. They already HAD a drinking problem. At a certain point, it's almost better to have alcohol in the house because these fighters are confined to the house and cannot drink and drive like contracted UFC fighters are able to do.

I hate to think of like this, but it's one mode of thinking, by having alcohol in that house, you become acutely aware of the problems with alcohol those fighters have before they are actually under contract with your organization. However, you do so in a confined environment that doesn't present any risk to the general public a la drinking and driving or fights in clubs because of alcohol.

This is just my two cents.