Top 5: Overrated Musicians/Bands

[Pimpin]

For the usual covering my ass thing. I apologize ahead of time if a thread similar to this has already been made.

Anyways moving on, have you ever just watched music videos or listened to the radio & think wow how the fuck does this person get praised for their music when I think their music is just plain shit. Well luckily this is why i'm creating this thread. I had a thought & I figured let's make a top 5 overrated music acts lists where you can list anybody whether it be rap artists, R&B singers, Rock bands, Country artists & whatever other music acts there are out there.

Anyways here is my list.

1. Soulja Boy- God damn this guy is awful. In my opinion his flow just flat out sucks. I won't lie that the words to his songs ain't bad, but in my opinion he just sounds like when a teacher scratches a chalkboard with her long ass fingernails. I have yet to have heard a song of his that is decent & that's why he is number one on this list.

2. T-Pain- I honestly don't see what's great about his singing as it sounds like a cat in major heat. Unlike Soulja Boy, at least I can sit through a T-Pain song & somewhat enjoy it as I kinda like his song I'm in Luv Wit A Stripper(all 3 versions of the song were pretty good mainly due to the guest appearances on the song). I think T-Pain should go back to the drawing board & start writing songs that the fans might actually like, but that's just me.

3. Ja Rule- I ain't sure why people thought he was great back in the early 2000's as all of his songs(with the exception of the diss song Loose Change) & albums bombed in my opinion. The worst songs of his are when he performs those soft songs with those sexy ass R&B chicks & that Uh Oh song that Lil Wayne performed with him(that was a beyond awful song). I pray that he doesn't release anymore albums cause if he does then I will just start beating my head up against the wall til all the pain of listening to him goes away.

4. Plies- All the ladies may know Plies from his soft singles such as Shawty, Bust It Baby & Put It On Ya. I got all his albums for my girlfriend & when I was sitting with her & listening to that album with her, I honestly thought that all this guy can't get a good single to make the top 40 without a guest appearance. The videos to this song ain't bad, but the only reason why his singles are decent is cause of the guest appearances(Ne-Yo, Jamie Foxx & yes even that overrated singer T-Pain). I think Plies should try writing some harder shit to see how good he really is cause he definitely doesn't entertain me at all.

5. Lil Wayne- Now I think Lil Wayne is a good rapper(despite stealing Gillie Da Kid's rapping style), but I don't think he is as good as all the critics say he is. Now he is one of the most hardest working rappers out there(he's at least releasing at least maybe 5 albums this year & that includes collaboration albums & mixtapes) & any song that he makes a guest appearance on is usually a hit. He's usually a hit or miss on songs that he does on his own. I think that he shouldn't be actually singing as it hurts people's ears & he should just stick to rapping as he does well in that department.

Feedback & criticism on this list is welcomed & I would love to see who you think is overrated in your opinions.

 

[NSL]

1. Fall Out Boy - Even if everyone in the world said they sucked, it wouldn't be enough. There's not one song I can even tolerate from them, and they continue to get worse as their career drags on.

2. Kings Of Leon - I'll admit, I haven't heard much from them, but what I have, all sucks. The only reason they're #2 here, is because the amount of love the get around makes it seem like they should be on a level with Led Zeppelin.

3. Maroon 5 - Another band that I just can't stand, and they won't go away. Their music is horrible, and wouldn't be tolerable, even if the singer shut his mouth. Seriously, take his balls out of a vice, and maybe they'll get a second listen.

4. Gym Class Heroes - Every time they come on the radio, or invade my TV, I can't do anything but say . They don't have any talent, and their lyrics make me wish I put my son on American Idol. I'd be a millionaire, if a band like this can get a record deal.

5. Jessica Simpson - Doesn't really fit with the other bands, but her music annoys me. Maybe she doesn't suck, but I can't stand the sound, or sight, of her.

 

[X]

1. Billy Joel - I despise Billy Joel. The sight or sound of him makes every orifice in my body want to vomit. I was never a fan to begin with of the 70's easy listening singer-songwriter genre, but Joel takes the absolute cake for overwhelming mediocrity and miles of undeserved praise. When I think of bland and boring, Joel comes to mind. In closing, Billy Joel is the antithesis of everything that rock and roll and rebellion stands for.

2. Arctic Monkeys - I'm sure Luther will hate me for this (not that I care), but the Arctic Monkeys have always struck me as immensely overrated. I downloaded their first album when all of the indie buzz was around them and found it to be an average to slightly above average album that was basically trying as hard as it possibly could to be a Libertines album. I'd respect them more if they just fleshed out their music more then imitation Libertines tunes. It's not that they're a bad group or anything, but the praise they get is fucking ridiculious. Then again, just about any band that NME praises as the greatest band on Earth are usually pretentious cliched British indie bands that aren't really doing anything new.

3. Kings of Leon - I've sincerely tried to like these guys. I've sampled their albums, and heard that "Sex on Fire" song a hundred times, and it just doesn't do it for me. Like the Arctic Monkeys, they're not bad musicians or anything, their music just doesn't strike me as particularly creative, catchy, or artistic. They sound like they are trying way too hard to be the next big arena rock band, and they just don't have the talent to achieve that. Like someone before me said though, the way the people on this board jump all over them you'd think they were already legends of music, when they're really no better then average.

4. Lil' Wayne - The most overrated rapper on the planet Earth. Some of his old shit isn't half-bad, but the praise heaped on this guy you'd think he was the next Biggie Smalls, when in truth the guy's rhymes are usually just awful gibberish completely lacking any intelligence or skill. His delivery is what sold him, but man, this guy is just really not that talented at all.

5. Pantera - I'll probably get in a lot of trouble with the resident metalheads for this one, and I was never really a big fan of the whole power-metal thing, but I really dislike Pantera. Some of their songs aren't bad, infact I even like a few (their cover of Sabbath's Planet Caravan is solid) but I just find them to be really mediocre and really...well, dumb. When I think dumb, xenophobic, semi-racist southern hick metal, I think Pantera.

 

[Tastycles]

Then again, just about any band that NME praises as the greatest band on Earth are usually pretentious cliched British indie bands that aren't really doing anything new.

The NME is fucking bullshit. I agree that the Monkeys are overrated, but not to an astronomical degree. I was once in a band that didn't have a drummer, and didn't play shows, but we did have a healthy myspace following. NME felt that warranted us being the 34th best unsigned band in the country in their list, which is bullshit to say the least.


I can only think of two that people regularly cite as being incredible that really aren't and they are:

Rolling Stones Everybody seems to love them, but personally I find them very boring and derivitive. I don't think they've ever written a truly incredible song, yet they are portrayed as being one of the best bands of all time.

Radiohead Putting your music through multiple synthesisers and equalisers doesn't make it good it makes it pretentious. Radiohead have their heads so far up their own arses its unreal. Making a statement by giving your album away for free is fine, but how about doing it before you make hundreds of millions, yeah?

 

[Ty Burna]

1. Lil Wayne - So much potential, so much selling out, so much shit music. Seriously, this guy had all the potential to be a great rapper. If you listened to his older stuff, he was actually pretty damn good and I was a big Lil Wayne fan at that point. However, he sold out faster than Madden does at Gamestop on release day. Now all he does is mumble his way through most of his songs and the only reason why he is popular is because of the beats (that I might note, he didn't create, give Manny Fresh credit on that one). He basically sold out his original style to go and make club and hip pop songs like Soulja Boy does. Honestly though, I have to give him credit, he's making HUGE money now because of all the 14 year old teeny boppers buying his music. But in regards to his actual ability, he ain't shit now.

2. Soulja Boy -Ok so I must put a note in here, Lil Wayne and Soulja Boy were so damn close to the number one spot, but Lil Wayne pisses me off more because of his fucking stupid ass claims of being the best rapper alive. However, Soulja Boy clocks in here just for the mere fact that he doesn't even make music. Every song I've heard of his is a 2 minute chorus, about 20 seconds of lyrics, and then the 2 minute chorus again. Big fucking deal, I could do that in my God damn sleep and still do it better. He also falls into that 14 year old teeny bop bullshit that Lil Wayne decided he should start focusing on. His music is shit, and really aggravates the living fuck out of me.

3. Jay-Z - Yes I said it, Jigga is overrated as all fuck when it comes to rap. Seriously, why do so many people believe him to be so damn good? I will admit his old shit on Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 he was spitting fire, but I noticed him slipping pretty rapidly when it came to Vol. 3. In fact his big single off that album "Big Pimpin" was only good because of UGK being on it. There has only been one song from Jay-Z that I have liked in the last 5 years and that was 99 problems. Other than that he's a smoother Puff Daddy with slightly better ability on the mic. Now he's just a name and a brand, and I wish people would stop treating him like he was the one that he's taken the torch as the best of NY from Biggie. Fuck that, Nas absolutely murdered him in their beef but because Jigga doesn't have the balls to make the controversial statements, he gets more media love than Nas who makes comments based on his personal opinion and feelings.

4. Eminem - Go ahead, bring the hate on me for saying this, but I believe I made my thoughts and opinions well known in earlier threads about Em's music. He got popular because of his bullshit controversial remarks about certain groups and the stupid shit he rapped about. Now I know what you're going to say "But you just said Nas is better than Jigga because he does make certain remarks". You are right I did, however, Nas has made political and social stands based on his ideas. Eminem just went out and made stupid remarks about the people he was targeting. Not only did he become popular because of his controversy, he also decided to diss any celebrity in the media, and said before, that's really not that difficult to do in this day and age. Shit most celebs think it's an honor to be mocked by Eminem in a song. He has some good songs, thus why I dont' have him higher on my list here, but it appears with his new album he's completely gone away from the only thing decent about his game, and gone back to the shit that CNN and Fox are just ready to pounce and make stories on. Fuck that, if you have to make a name for yourself in the rap game based on talking shit about celebrities and making remarks towards certain groups of people, than you don't deserve to be one of the best.

5. 50 Cent - 50's shit is wack, and he's a hypocrite (call Jericho we got a live one). He talked shit to Ja Rule about making the sappy songs and trying to sing in them, and then he turns around almost fucking immediately and starts doing it himself. The fuck?!?!?! Anyway, he sounds like he's mumbling in a lot of his songs too, I know fucked up jaw and all that shit, whatever, Kanye was able to do just fine after having his jaw wired shut. Not only this, but similar to Eminem, he had to make his name by going after rappers that are doing better than him. How did he get known? Attacked Jay-Z, which really isn't that much of a threat in a feud to be honest. Next he attacked Ja Rule, same thing as Jay-Z. Fat Joe, easy target only makes shit club music. Let's see, now he's going after Rick Ross. Why? Because Ross is doing better than 50 is, and when the shit about Ross being a Corrections Officer in the past came up, 50 saw an opening to start another feud and attack because his sales haven't been doing shit lately. Ross isn't all that great either so to 50 it was another easy target for him. But now, when 50 tried to go after rappers that have some skill like Kanye West and The Game, Kanye beat 50 in record sales (I'm still waiting on your retirement 50), and The Game just murdered the whole G Unit camp in all his diss songs. So 50 can only make a name for himself by making shit sappy semi singing music, making music with Timberlake, or feuding with rappers that aren't that strong. Overrated.

 

[Big Sexy]

4. Eminem - Go ahead, bring the hate on me for saying this, but I believe I made my thoughts and opinions well known in earlier threads about Em's music. He got popular because of his bullshit controversial remarks about certain groups and the stupid shit he rapped about. Now I know what you're going to say "But you just said Nas is better than Jigga because he does make certain remarks". You are right I did, however, Nas has made political and social stands based on his ideas. Eminem just went out and made stupid remarks about the people he was targeting. Not only did he become popular because of his controversy, he also decided to diss any celebrity in the media, and said before, that's really not that difficult to do in this day and age. Shit most celebs think it's an honor to be mocked by Eminem in a song. He has some good songs, thus why I dont' have him higher on my list here, but it appears with his new album he's completely gone away from the only thing decent about his game, and gone back to the shit that CNN and Fox are just ready to pounce and make stories on. Fuck that, if you have to make a name for yourself in the rap game based on talking shit about celebrities and making remarks towards certain groups of people, than you don't deserve to be one of the best.

This is the only one on your list that I disagree with. Making fun of celebs is one of the reasons he became popular but it's not the only reason. He's just smart enough to know that controversy creates cash. You can't knock a guy for trying to make a buck. If he didn't have the ability to back up the controversy then you could say he's overrated, but who he makes fun of in his singles doesn't change the fact that you can't find too many rappers that match him lyrically. The controversy gets some people to buy the album, but real hip hop fans would buy his albums regardless because very few rappers, if any can match him lyrically.

Now to my list

1. Lil Wayne- Weezy is overrated for 2 reasons. Number one he is becoming way more of a pop star then he is a rapper. Number 2 he is way too fucked up on sizzurp and whatever drugs he's taking. You listen to his shit from Tha Carter 2 and before and he is dope, but now half of his songs don't make any sense.

2. Jay Z- He was dope when he first came out, but as his career progressed it seemed like he got worse instead of better. Nas absolutely murdered him in their feud from a few years ago. Jay Z is good but some people consider him one of the best ever and they could not be any more wrong.

3. Kanye West- This guy is so full of himself it sickens me. He's good but no where near as good as he thinks he is. I honestly can't think of more then 1 or 2 songs that he has put out that I really like that much. I honestly find him to be a much better producer then rapper.

4. Gucci Mane- Anyone who thinks Gucci Mane is good needs there head examined. He always has tight beats, but then he spits and it makes me want to vomit. He rhymes about the same stuff in every song. I'm glad he makes a shit ton of money from selling cocaine but I really don't want to hear about it in every song.

5. Eazy E- I know dude is a legend and I'm actually a huge fan. Boyz in Tha Hood is one of my favorite tracks ever, but he was nothing more a guy with good delivery using other peoples lyrics. Ice Cube wrote almost all of Eazy's rhymes on his solo album and on NWA's albums. Then when Ice Cube left MC Ren wrote most of his shit. Eazy always said from the beginning that he wasn't much of a rapper so I'm not knocking him, but anyone who says he's one of the best ever is wrong.

The only reason I kept guys like Soulja Boy off the list is because I don't necessarily think they're really rated high at all. Most people hate Soulja Boy. He only sells records because teen aged girls like him and all of his shitty dance songs.

 

[TwistofRKO]

I only have two for now, I'm sure more will come to my head later


2. Nickelback- They are complete trash. Chad Kroeger has a terrible voice, their music sucks, and they are a poppy band pretending to be a real rock group. Gotta Be Somebody annoys the crap out of me everytime I hear it. All of their succesful songs are purely pop music.

1. Oasis- Start out with saying Noel Gallagher is nowhere near the greatest guitarist of this generation, yet alone all time. Oasis isn't a bad group, but they aren't great by any stretch of the mind. They have been borderline average for the last 10 years, and I wasn't even a big fan of that as much as I can just respect it. They are just Beatles knockoffs. The undying praise they get really irks me.

 

[SK]

Ill list my 5 most overrated in a moment, but first I would like to disagree with some choices and i'll use Ty Burna's posts as they are the longest and most opinionated. Firstly let me say I enjoyed reading your post and I do think you have your reasons, but I have to disagree with 2 choices here let me explain...

1. Lil Wayne - So much potential, so much selling out, so much shit music. Seriously, this guy had all the potential to be a great rapper. If you listened to his older stuff, he was actually pretty damn good and I was a big Lil Wayne fan at that point. However, he sold out faster than Madden does at Gamestop on release day. Now all he does is mumble his way through most of his songs and the only reason why he is popular is because of the beats (that I might note, he didn't create, give Manny Fresh credit on that one). He basically sold out his original style to go and make club and hip pop songs like Soulja Boy does. Honestly though, I have to give him credit, he's making HUGE money now because of all the 14 year old teeny boppers buying his music. But in regards to his actual ability, he ain't shit now..

Now this for me is a tough one, I am bound to be biased towars Weezy because I am a fan, however I don't think he is overrated, I think he has just grown more than anything. If we look at the start of Lil' Waynes career, he began with the Hot Boys, now surely you cant say you liked him at this stage, I don't think anyone did, from here I think he bega to grow and develop into a better rounded vocalist and lyricist. You talk about having potential to be a great rapper, I think this is what he is growing into, look at Carter III, it sold over a million in its first week, and there is no evidence of selling out on that album except maybe the track with T-Pain. Another quarrel I have is about changing style, all rappers have done this, look at Jay-Z and Jaz-O 'Originators' Jay's style there is so very different and he changed it to become successful as Wayne has done. However, I can admit when Wayne is bad and on Prom Queen and if he does make the album Rebirth, I will agree with you on the selling out. But as for overrated i don't agree there.

4. Eminem - Go ahead, bring the hate on me for saying this, but I believe I made my thoughts and opinions well known in earlier threads about Em's music. He got popular because of his bullshit controversial remarks about certain groups and the stupid shit he rapped about. Now I know what you're going to say "But you just said Nas is better than Jigga because he does make certain remarks". You are right I did, however, Nas has made political and social stands based on his ideas. Eminem just went out and made stupid remarks about the people he was targeting. Not only did he become popular because of his controversy, he also decided to diss any celebrity in the media, and said before, that's really not that difficult to do in this day and age. Shit most celebs think it's an honor to be mocked by Eminem in a song. He has some good songs, thus why I dont' have him higher on my list here, but it appears with his new album he's completely gone away from the only thing decent about his game, and gone back to the shit that CNN and Fox are just ready to pounce and make stories on. Fuck that, if you have to make a name for yourself in the rap game based on talking shit about celebrities and making remarks towards certain groups of people, than you don't deserve to be one of the best.

You said bring the hate, unfortunately I have to, Eminem is MASSIVELY underrated as a rapper. Firstly let me say, Eminem is very important to rap, for one standout reason, he is white. Yes I know shocker, this is most peoples argument, but when you think about it, what an achievement, he should be compared to Elvis because what they did is very similar, they took a stereotypical type of music and became successful within it, making people not think of skin colour but simply music. The problem I have with your post is that you seem to think Eminem is only considered a good rapper because of contoversial remarks, I have to disagree and say that Eminem is held in such high regard because he can rap in any style and pull it off. Controversial statements just come with the game, and you cant say this isnt so, Nas just used the word ****** as a promotional tool not as a sociological or political view. Anyway I would like to hear your views on my opinions.

1. Nas
Yes Nas, hugely overrated. This man is considered a god of rap among many, how? This guy has dropped in my opinion, 3 good albums in his whole career (and yes I do own them all before you say I may not have). OK i'll give him Illmatic, epic album, still listen to it alot and if anything this album is one of raps best. However, the one thing I cannot stand about Nas is how he puts himself in the spotlight with using the word ******, then pretending he is leading a movement, when all he is doing is trying to be contoversial. Wouldn't even mind put don't just throw racism around and pretend its thought provoking - listen to 'Be A ****** Too' its a horrible racism provoking piece of shit!

2. Oasis
Never have such a terrible band been held in such high regard as this bunch of pretenders. How so many people like them I will never know, every single song they make sounds rediculously similar to the last one. Also, whats with their lyrics? They are nonsensical and offer no story, insight, emotion but are just random words thrown together that people think sound good, they are beyond me.

3 Jay-Z
Can't even believe i'm writing this, I love Jay-z, I have every album and have seen him live numerous times. But, even I will accept he is overrated, Reasonable doubt, Vol 1 and 2 were all excellent, Blueprint and American Gangster aren't bad but all the rest aren't very good he's not a great rapper anymore, relies on his own name a bit too much nowadays, like simply the Jay-Z name will simply be enough to sell albums, he is not the best rapper there has been, although i'll always like him.

4. 50 Cent
WOW, talk about shit! Can't stand the man, talks shit, he's a fake, talks about guns and drugs and thats it, anything else is just crap! I was not suprised at all to see Kanye outsell him, hell I was suprised he sold so many! I just don't like the guy, never will, people say his early stuff was good, nah itwas average, only sells so much because of his crew and merch.

5. Lady Gaga
How does this bullshit music even get sold, her songs are ridiculous and all rely on sexual innuendo and because she attractive people love it. If you haven't heard her, dont bother. But people here in the UK love her. I don't.

 

[Goberz2K8]

Here are mine...To Be Honest, the majority are modenr Band/Artists.


5. Lady Gaga - The only thing you have to give to her, is the Success she has gained in a short amount of time. Put it this way, AC/DC's last album must of sold double or triple the amount of albums she has sold in the smae amunt of time her album has been out, but she has gained a lot of success in a short amount of time and that is good. But Her songs are shit, and far too overplayed - Which kills a song....I just cant listen to Poker Face of Let's Dance, or whatever its called.

4. Metallica - Now, I really cant understand why their so popular. There are far more deserving bands from the same era such as W.A.S.P., Whitesnake(a little older tho), Helloween, and Dio. Ok, some of their songs are marginaly ok, but come on, overrated.....

3. Guns N Roses - Now I was at odds on whether to Put Led Zeppelin on this part but, Id probably get banned, and its probably blasphemous, and I do like Led Zep...but I really think that GN'R are overrated, and Yeah I do like some of their songs, but come on...Alx Rose is a bit of a Knob, and isnt the best singer, People Like David Coverdale and Klaus Mein are way better. I do like Slash, Duff and Izzy, and yeah their all talented and so on, to have sold so many albums......

2. Coldplay - Overrated. I dont care if the Knob-Jockey Lead Singer is married to Gwyneth Paltrow or whatever, but their Viva La Vida album is terrible. I really cant understand how they can be considered Rock...or any type of Rock to Be honest. Overrated, overlayed, and terrible...swriously, bands like Motorhead, AC/DC, Whitesnake, Alice Cooper, Dio, Heaven and Hell, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple are Rock!!

1. Kings of Leon - I also Hate these with a Passion like I do with Coldplay. Seriously, yeah they have a little more "Rock" to it than Coldplay, but they are seriously over played on T.V. and Radio, and I really just dont like their songs at ALL......

 

[Ty Burna]

Now this for me is a tough one, I am bound to be biased towars Weezy because I am a fan, however I don't think he is overrated, I think he has just grown more than anything. If we look at the start of Lil' Waynes career, he began with the Hot Boys, now surely you cant say you liked him at this stage, I don't think anyone did, from here I think he bega to grow and develop into a better rounded vocalist and lyricist. You talk about having potential to be a great rapper, I think this is what he is growing into, look at Carter III, it sold over a million in its first week, and there is no evidence of selling out on that album except maybe the track with T-Pain. Another quarrel I have is about changing style, all rappers have done this, look at Jay-Z and Jaz-O 'Originators' Jay's style there is so very different and he changed it to become successful as Wayne has done. However, I can admit when Wayne is bad and on Prom Queen and if he does make the album Rebirth, I will agree with you on the selling out. But as for overrated i don't agree there.



You said bring the hate, unfortunately I have to, Eminem is MASSIVELY underrated as a rapper. Firstly let me say, Eminem is very important to rap, for one standout reason, he is white. Yes I know shocker, this is most peoples argument, but when you think about it, what an achievement, he should be compared to Elvis because what they did is very similar, they took a stereotypical type of music and became successful within it, making people not think of skin colour but simply music. The problem I have with your post is that you seem to think Eminem is only considered a good rapper because of contoversial remarks, I have to disagree and say that Eminem is held in such high regard because he can rap in any style and pull it off. Controversial statements just come with the game, and you cant say this isnt so, Nas just used the word ****** as a promotional tool not as a sociological or political view. Anyway I would like to hear your views on my opinions.

Just going to tidy that quote up so I can better show what I"m responding to. Anyway, in regards to Wayne, yes I actually enjoyed his work with the Hot Boys, I enjoyed his work when he was doing his solo work at the time. At that time you could actually understand what he was actually saying, instead of how he does it now. Back in the day when I first heard Wayne, I will admit he wasn't ever going to be my favorite rapper because his style then wasn't what I was into, but I figured he'd turn into a respectable rapper, not on the level of Juvenile or B.G. would, but respectable. But, to go from having the ability to be respectable, to turning in club pop songs like Lollipop, his shit with T-Pain, I mean I know guys that want to be rappers, but can't rap for shit, and then turn around and try pointing out Wayne as the best rapper, uh excuse me? How much ability do you have to have to actually rap like Wayne does now? I'm not talking lyrical ability I'll get to that, but to sit and make a song and rap to it like he does, really not that difficult. What happened to being able to deliver your rhymes on the mic with fire, with purpose? Am I just too much into the hip hop back in the day that I really can't see how his delivery makes him so damn good? He sounds like a little kid who was given too much Ritalin. His lyrics have never been that strong to be honest with you, and now he just dumbed it down even more. Overall if we were going to go Madden style on this and give a rating, Wayne back in the day was a rookie with a 75 rating, he could go up and become like a 88 or a 90, or he could drop to a 70 or lower. To me somehow, someway he turned from a 75 to a 62 and all of a sudden he's big. Now let me tell you how that happened. Because he turned into nothing but a club song hit maker, nothing wrong with making club songs, I enjoy em, but making a club song is relatively easy to make. Make a catchy chorus, get someone to make a hot beat, keep your lyrical content to a minimal, boom you have a club song. To sit down and actually make a song worth anything, requires MC skills that Wayne decided he no longer needed. So if you eliminate the real essential MC skills, and rely almost entirely on making club songs, how can you call yourself the best rapper alive? You can talk all you want about being successful in the sales department, but when it comes down to it, I'm a fan of hip hop, and in hip hop nowadays, record sales does not equal quality. I grew up listening to Biggie, 2pac, NWA Dre Eazy Bone Thugs etc. So I think that gives you an idea on where my hip hop roots are and why a lot of this bullshit rap that's coming out pisses me off to all hell, because shit like Wayne puts out, is nowhere near the quality or the impact as some of the older artists have put out.

Now on to Eminem, I have no idea how you can say he's highly underrated when people go out and claim he's the best rapper ever. Uh...no he's not really, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's absolute shit as a rapper, in fact he's quite solid on the mic, but my biggest problem with Eminem is the fact that he doesn't use those solid mic skills in the way he should be using them. Once he got pas the Marshall Mathers and Slim Shady LP's, he started going to do different shit, music that wasn't about how ****ty all the pop singers are and all that. To me that was when he was probably at his apex, where to me, I actually became a fan for awhile because it wasn't the same old tired out gimmick he used in his first two albums. But it's after this point, that I started noticing that even some of his more serious music wasn't as polished anymore. This more than likely came when he was having his family issues and what not, but the fact remains that the music was turning to shit again, and now with this new album, from what I've read and what I've heard from the album, he slipped right back to the Slim Shady LP style he has. He's a very versatile rapper I will give him credit for that, but there is just something about his music that doesn't click with me, and I guess that's where the biggest issue for me lies, it's the fact that there are certain things that bother me about him, and to be honest I consider myself a connoisseur of hip hop, and then to have all the people that haven't been into rap or listen to it as much as I have start saying he's the best ever. I just don't get why they think that. Like I said, I don't think he's a shit rapper necessarily, I just don't see why his music is so damn good, why everyone thinks he's so damn good, I just don't see it. I don't diss on Eminem personally, I just evaluate his abilities, which again, are very solid in my book, and then compare his abilities, to the music he's putting out. His abilities overshadow the music, and what I mean by that is, he needs to get away from 50 trying to make him do club songs like Crack A Bottle, and sit down on his own and just completely put his whole effort and use his abilities to the fullest to create music. If he did that, I am certain you would see a complete different side of him, and a whole different kind of music. If that were to happen, well you may just see me become a full time Eminem fan, because I trully want him to be better than he is now, but for the time being I cannot honestly say that I enjoy his music.

And as far as Nas goes, I don't think he's really overrated, mostly because his record sales aren't that great anymore, and he's only ever really followed by the fans that he had back in the day. I agree with some of your statements about him using the N word for publicity, I think that had something to do with it, but also at the same time, I understand his views on the word and why they should still use it. I believe he views the word as a reminder of the history of African Americans and what struggles they went through to get to this point. I think that's where he was coming from when he was going to title his album that. He's also one of the few remaining outstanding lyricists in the rap game today, especially from New York. NY hasn't had any great rappers come out from there in quite some time, and Nas is basically the last one left standing nowadays, and for him to still be relevant in the game today (look no further than his Hip Hop is dead statement and the beef that followed between him and the south), after so many years of doing what he's been doing, that's a testament to his ability right there.

 

[SK]

First off, let me just say really enjoying reading your posts, your clearly a big hip-hop guy like me and we just have different tastes. However, this doesn't mean we can't debate so i'll continue.

Anyway, in regards to Wayne, yes I actually enjoyed his work with the Hot Boys, I enjoyed his work when he was doing his solo work at the time. At that time you could actually understand what he was actually saying, instead of how he does it now. Back in the day when I first heard Wayne, I will admit he wasn't ever going to be my favorite rapper because his style then wasn't what I was into, but I figured he'd turn into a respectable rapper, not on the level of Juvenile or B.G. would, but respectable. But, to go from having the ability to be respectable, to turning in club pop songs like Lollipop, his shit with T-Pain, I mean I know guys that want to be rappers, but can't rap for shit, and then turn around and try pointing out Wayne as the best rapper, uh excuse me? How much ability do you have to have to actually rap like Wayne does now? I'm not talking lyrical ability I'll get to that, but to sit and make a song and rap to it like he does, really not that difficult. What happened to being able to deliver your rhymes on the mic with fire, with purpose? Am I just too much into the hip hop back in the day that I really can't see how his delivery makes him so damn good? He sounds like a little kid who was given too much Ritalin. His lyrics have never been that strong to be honest with you, and now he just dumbed it down even more. Overall if we were going to go Madden style on this and give a rating, Wayne back in the day was a rookie with a 75 rating, he could go up and become like a 88 or a 90, or he could drop to a 70 or lower. To me somehow, someway he turned from a 75 to a 62 and all of a sudden he's big. Now let me tell you how that happened. Because he turned into nothing but a club song hit maker, nothing wrong with making club songs, I enjoy em, but making a club song is relatively easy to make. Make a catchy chorus, get someone to make a hot beat, keep your lyrical content to a minimal, boom you have a club song. To sit down and actually make a song worth anything, requires MC skills that Wayne decided he no longer needed. So if you eliminate the real essential MC skills, and rely almost entirely on making club songs, how can you call yourself the best rapper alive? You can talk all you want about being successful in the sales department, but when it comes down to it, I'm a fan of hip hop, and in hip hop nowadays, record sales does not equal quality. I grew up listening to Biggie, 2pac, NWA Dre Eazy Bone Thugs etc. So I think that gives you an idea on where my hip hop roots are and why a lot of this bullshit rap that's coming out pisses me off to all hell, because shit like Wayne puts out, is nowhere near the quality or the impact as some of the older artists have put out.

Firstly, we both clearly have different opinions on Waynes vocal style, you seem to prefer the old, I prefer the new, (that is not saying I enjoy Lollipop/ Prom Queen, i'm more of a 3Peat, A Milli, Phone Home guy). Now, I think Wayne's rap style is an easy one to copy, sure, but his lyrics are very good, he plays with words nicely and his delivery is perfect imo. Can't agree with you on the dumbing it down bar a few mainstream songs. Now with these ratings i'd say wayne started at a 70 and is now an 85, hes not the best rapper but he's certainly up there. The only way i'd ever put him at a 62 is if Gucci Mane and Tony Yayo were rated about 5, them two are awful! I agree that Wayne has made some club songs, but also some pure hip-hop songs (A Milli, 3Peat) I also have to agree that I hate him calling himself the greatest rapper alive, I can easily name 5 above him. Also, your hip-hop background (who you listed) is similar to mine and I can appreciate love for old school hip-hop and the hate for what it's becoming. However, I don't think that Wayne is overrated because there is not a huge amount of love for him, he doesn't perform anywhere huge, his own fans at concerts throw shit at him and with the exception of Carter III he does not sell overly well.

Now on to Eminem, I have no idea how you can say he's highly underrated when people go out and claim he's the best rapper ever. Uh...no he's not really, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's absolute shit as a rapper, in fact he's quite solid on the mic, but my biggest problem with Eminem is the fact that he doesn't use those solid mic skills in the way he should be using them. Once he got pas the Marshall Mathers and Slim Shady LP's, he started going to do different shit, music that wasn't about how ****ty all the pop singers are and all that. To me that was when he was probably at his apex, where to me, I actually became a fan for awhile because it wasn't the same old tired out gimmick he used in his first two albums. But it's after this point, that I started noticing that even some of his more serious music wasn't as polished anymore. This more than likely came when he was having his family issues and what not, but the fact remains that the music was turning to shit again, and now with this new album, from what I've read and what I've heard from the album, he slipped right back to the Slim Shady LP style he has. He's a very versatile rapper I will give him credit for that, but there is just something about his music that doesn't click with me, and I guess that's where the biggest issue for me lies, it's the fact that there are certain things that bother me about him, and to be honest I consider myself a connoisseur of hip hop, and then to have all the people that haven't been into rap or listen to it as much as I have start saying he's the best ever. I just don't get why they think that. Like I said, I don't think he's a shit rapper necessarily, I just don't see why his music is so damn good, why everyone thinks he's so damn good, I just don't see it. I don't diss on Eminem personally, I just evaluate his abilities, which again, are very solid in my book, and then compare his abilities, to the music he's putting out. His abilities overshadow the music, and what I mean by that is, he needs to get away from 50 trying to make him do club songs like Crack A Bottle, and sit down on his own and just completely put his whole effort and use his abilities to the fullest to create music. If he did that, I am certain you would see a complete different side of him, and a whole different kind of music. If that were to happen, well you may just see me become a full time Eminem fan, because I trully want him to be better than he is now, but for the time being I cannot honestly say that I enjoy his music.

The only reason why I believe Em is underrated is because of influence and stlyle. I am not for a second suggesting that he is the best rapper alive, or that he is the best lyricist. However, I do believe he changed this game in a big way. If a poor white boy from Detroit can become a huge rapper, he's giving hope to alot out there, not only that but his versatility leads to him being rated so high, how many rappers out there could drop Without Me and Cleanin' Out My Closet and get away with it and still be called a good rapper, very very few.

And as far as Nas goes, I don't think he's really overrated, mostly because his record sales aren't that great anymore, and he's only ever really followed by the fans that he had back in the day. I agree with some of your statements about him using the N word for publicity, I think that had something to do with it, but also at the same time, I understand his views on the word and why they should still use it. I believe he views the word as a reminder of the history of African Americans and what struggles they went through to get to this point. I think that's where he was coming from when he was going to title his album that. He's also one of the few remaining outstanding lyricists in the rap game today, especially from New York. NY hasn't had any great rappers come out from there in quite some time, and Nas is basically the last one left standing nowadays, and for him to still be relevant in the game today (look no further than his Hip Hop is dead statement and the beef that followed between him and the south), after so many years of doing what he's been doing, that's a testament to his ability right there.

Ok i'll agree with alot of this post and instead would say that Nas is overrated in hip-hop circles and not by the mainstream. However, I don't think he's that good a lyricist, yes Illmatic was undoubtedly excellent, but aside from that album I think he has relied on controversy and publicity stunts to stay relevant.

 

[The Dewbliners]

Okay, here goes:

First and foremostNirvana- Most of the bands fans are only there because Kurt passed away, and can't name any of Nirvanas records outside of In Utero and Nevermind. Not to mention, Kurts voice was horrible, and couldn't play his guitar for an entire year on tour, because he was so junked up. Hence Pat Smear getting hired. Krist and Dave weren't bad, but nobody paid attention to them. Kurt also angered me with his calling Pearl Jam sell outs, just because they had a hit record or two (Temple of the Dog, Ten) before his band.

Next on my list is Dave Matthews Band-My reason is simple. His song lyrics usually make no sense, and he can't go anywhere without his trusty guitar. He seriously reminds me of the town douche who ruined sensitive guy music the world over.

O.K., I'm thinkin' the next band is Journey. Sure, they were good back in the day, but anymore their songs are fodder for people at the local Kareoke bar. They have become a joke of sorts, and it boggles my mind how it didn't happen sooner.

Next, I'll go with Green Day. I'll admit, they can make an occasional good track, but for the most part, they are just a bunch of whiny, guy-liner wearing pseudo-punks. I just don't understand the love fest they seem to get alot. Hell, I can't remember the last time I thought," I gotta get the new Green Day album!"

My next selection might seem like it's comin' from left field, but The Brian Setzer Orchestra tends to annoy me. It may have something to do with Setzers refusal to stick to one musical style for more than a week, I don't know. But for me, BSO was not at the front of the Swing Revival, that crown belongs to a true swing band, that stuck with it, and are still selling out clubs with that sound, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy.

 

[X]

Okay, here goes:

First and foremostNirvana- Most of the bands fans are only there because Kurt passed away,

That's a pretty ridiculious statement. That's like saying the only reason people like Jimi Hendrix or The Doors or John Lennon is because they all passed away, no band is liked simply because the lead singer is dead.

and can't name any of Nirvanas records outside of In Utero and Nevermind.

Nirvana only released 3 studio albums, two of which you just named. And where are you drawing these conclusions that a majority of Nirvana fans can't name more then 2 albums? If anything it's the opposite, the majority of Nirvana fans are completely obsessed with Kurt and Nirvana and collect every little thing they ever did.

Not to mention, Kurts voice was horrible, and couldn't play his guitar for an entire year on tour, because he was so junked up.

Bullshit, and double bullshit. Kurt's voice was horrible? It's called punk rock...if you're going to criticize a punk band for having bad vocals...well I mean c'mon thats just beyond stupid. Johnny Rotten couldn't sing to save his fucking life, yet he's still managed to be the lead singer of not one but two legendary bands. Johnny Cash's voice sounded like he was chewing on gravel all night long. And Cobain toured almost nonstop in the early years of Nirvana. Couldn't play the guitar? Please cite me one example of a Nirvana song with shoddy guitar playing, Cobain wasn't a solo man like Eddie Van Halen, he was all about crafting melody, no different from Lennon or McCartney's work with the Beatles--- they must be shitty guitarists too, hmm?

Hence Pat Smear getting hired. Krist and Dave weren't bad, but nobody paid attention to them. Kurt also angered me with his calling Pearl Jam sell outs, just because they had a hit record or two (Temple of the Dog, Ten) before his band.

A: Pat Smear was not hired because Cobain was a "bad" guitar player. Smear was hired mainly because he was an idol of the band's when he used to play guitar in The Germs.

B: Not sure how Kurt dissing Pearl Jam refects poorly on Nirvana's music.

 

[The Dewbliners]

That's a pretty ridiculious statement. That's like saying the only reason people like Jimi Hendrix or The Doors or John Lennon is because they all passed away, no band is liked simply because the lead singer is dead.



Nirvana only released 3 studio albums, two of which you just named. And where are you drawing these conclusions that a majority of Nirvana fans can't name more then 2 albums? If anything it's the opposite, the majority of Nirvana fans are completely obsessed with Kurt and Nirvana and collect every little thing they ever did.



Bullshit, and double bullshit. Kurt's voice was horrible? It's called punk rock...if you're going to criticize a punk band for having bad vocals...well I mean c'mon thats just beyond stupid. Johnny Rotten couldn't sing to save his fucking life, yet he's still managed to be the lead singer of not one but two legendary bands. Johnny Cash's voice sounded like he was chewing on gravel all night long. And Cobain toured almost nonstop in the early years of Nirvana. Couldn't play the guitar? Please cite me one example of a Nirvana song with shoddy guitar playing, Cobain wasn't a solo man like Eddie Van Halen, he was all about crafting melody, no different from Lennon or McCartney's work with the Beatles--- they must be shitty guitarists too, hmm?



A: Pat Smear was not hired because Cobain was a "bad" guitar player. Smear was hired mainly because he was an idol of the band's when he used to play guitar in The Germs.

B: Not sure how Kurt dissing Pearl Jam refects poorly on Nirvana's music.

Allow me to clarify my statements.

I said the whole bit about the death because, let's be honest, Nirvana would have broken up regardless. Dave still would have left to pursue the Foo Fighters concept, and Krist would have still gone on to politics and public speaking. Nirvana would have wound up with 1 or 2 more records, with maybe enough material to cover a full two hour set, without having to borrow from other bands like Mudhoney and the Meat Puppets. Also, I never said specifically studio albums, I said records in a general since. I was also taking into account their countless live and "bootleg" albums.

Kurts voice was shit. That's a fact. I'm saying that without even comparing him to Eddie, Chris Cornelle, Scott Weiland, or any other grunge vocalist.

Which leads me to: Nirvana was not punk rock, they knew more than three chords. They were classified as "Grunge", just like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Mudhoney, the Meat Puppets, and to an extent STP and Alice In Chains. Of those bands, name me one other with shitty vocals, that you can't discern whether he's growling or trying to sing? Also, I call bullshit on your claim of Cash being a poor vocalist, considering his musical style was indicative of a low gravelly voice. Could you imagine his structure with someone with a more conventional voice, like say Hank? I won't argue with you at all on Rotten, because his voice was wretched.

Also, I never once claimed Kurt was a bad guitarist, I merely suggested he was too far gone from his heroin abuse. I suppose you'll argue he didn't have an addiction? Also, Krist has gone on record saying a major reason they hired Smear (outside of his work with The Germs) was because Kurt couldn't play during that tour, again, because of his drug use. Kurt was in fact a very competent player, on the occasions of his subsiding heroin usage, and after his stint in rehab.

To add to that, I realize he and Eddie have very different styles. One is fond of solos and riffs, the other focused mostly on melodies, like you pointed out. But to lump Cobaine in with Lennon and McArtney is giving him a little bit too much on the credit. Had he lived a little longer, maybe amass a little more time to hone his skill, I could understand. He's just not as good as those two.

As far as his dissing PJ is concerned, you are absolutely right, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the music. It just speaks volumes on him as a person, that he would be so bitter and petty about another band being popular and having success. A band, by the way, that is still going strong. So, it doesn't directly effect the music, but, if you're a member of the Jamily, like myself, it rubs you the wrong way, and makes you think less of the man, and indirectly his music.

Please, understand, I don't hate Nirvana, or Kurt, I just happen to think they aren't as good as the inside media and their fans do. Hey, you might feel the same about the other grunge bands. I just posted Nirvana because, honestly, I felt it needed to said.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Nearly none of what was said in criticism to Nirvana had anything to do with their actual music, just the fact they offended a Pearl Jam fan.

Cobain never cared who he offended, and that's why I liked him. To suggest he was jealous, of Pearl Jam, is absurd. The fact that Nirvana is far more popular on a larger scale, and the fact that Cobain never actually wanted the mainstream success and attention proves that statement's absurdity.

To each their own, though.

 

[The Dewbliners]

Nearly none of what was said in criticism to Nirvana had anything to do with their actual music, just the fact they offended a Pearl Jam fan.

Cobain never cared who he offended, and that's why I liked him. To suggest he was jealous, of Pearl Jam, is absurd. The fact that Nirvana is far more popular on a larger scale, and the fact that Cobain never actually wanted the mainstream success and attention proves that statement's absurdity.

To each their own, though.

You could be right, my feeling that they were overrated might stem from his insulting one of my favorite bands. Then again, it could be from the fact that I prefer songs with substance and research, not the ramblings of a man who is so drug-addled he started having delusions of grandeur. Hence why I would rather listen to Soundgarden over STP. It could also be because he couldn't go a whole concert without ripping off the Meat Puppets or Mudhoney, among other bands.

As an aside, the only reason, IMO, that Nirvana had a bigger following of casual fans, is because mags like Time, EW, and Rolling Stone dubbed them the "voice of a generation", while completely ignoring other bands who were more deserving. Nevermind Pearl Jam, why didn't Cornelle get his dues? Or, perhaps, a guy like Whitfield Crane from Ugly Kid Joe?

 

[X]

I said the whole bit about the death because, let's be honest, Nirvana would have broken up regardless. Dave still would have left to pursue the Foo Fighters concept, and Krist would have still gone on to politics and public speaking. Nirvana would have wound up with 1 or 2 more records, with maybe enough material to cover a full two hour set, without having to borrow from other bands like Mudhoney and the Meat Puppets. Also, I never said specifically studio albums, I said records in a general since. I was also taking into account their countless live and "bootleg" albums.

Okay, a few different topics you brought up here, I'll try to address each of them.

1. It's not a foregone conclusion that Nirvana would have broken up. If you think Kurt Cobain was the first hopelessly addicted suicidal junkie, you'd be wrong. Eric Clapton, Keith Richards, Ray Charles, there are tons of examples of people who were in just as bad of shape as Cobain was and still managed to get clean and continue making music. Who knows what the future could have been for Cobain if he had not died.

2. No way were either Grohl or Novoselic (especially Krist) going to leave Nirvana as long as Cobain still wanted to do it. I mean, Nirvana was the biggest band on the planet, both of them tried their hardest to reach Kurt and try to get him out of the pits. The only way Nirvana was going to disband was if Kurt didn't want to do it anymore. Don't get me wrong though, Nirvana were infact all but broken up when Kurt died, but that was only because Cobain was so gone into addiction and depression at that point that he didn't have the ambition to do it anymore.

3. Nirvana did in no way rip off from Mudhoney and the Meat Puppets. Are you kidding me? Yeah maybe like 2 or 3 Nirvana songs sound similiar to some Meat Puppets tunes, but not Mudhoney. Mudhoney was always a very happy-go-lucky punk/grunge band, their music is typically upbeat and wild like that. I mean, go listen to the song "Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle" and tell me that sounds anything like Mudhoney or the Meat Puppets.

Kurts voice was shit. That's a fact. I'm saying that without even comparing him to Eddie, Chris Cornelle, Scott Weiland, or any other grunge vocalist.

First off, Nirvana is a punk band. A PUNK BAND. Criticizing a punk band for shoddy vocals is the absolute height of ironic stupidity.

Secondly, his voice was more then capable. He didn't have the booming arena rock voice of Eddie Vedder or unabased melody of Simon Garfunkel, but his voice most definately had it's qualities. Saying his voice was shit is an incredibly poor "reason" that Nirvana is overrated. I hate to keep using the same examples, but you're just not getting them--- Johnny Cash's voice was just as gruff and unmelodic as Cobain's, but you'd hardly say Cash couldn't sing, now would ya?

Which leads me to: Nirvana was not punk rock, they knew more than three chords. They were classified as "Grunge", just like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Mudhoney, the Meat Puppets, and to an extent STP and Alice In Chains.

Not punk rock? Trust me buddy, as someone who knows more about punk rock then you could forget, Nirvana was most certainly punk rock. The entire inception of Nirvana was because of the influence of Black Flag and The Melvins, who most certainly are punk rock.

And your insinuation that punk rock has only three chords pretty much just summed up what I assumed; you don't actually know a lot about punk rock. The Ramones three chord riffs are not the end-all, be-all of punk rock.

Grunge IS punk rock. It's called a subgenre. Grunge is simply punk rock mixed with metal, that's it's definition.

Of those bands, name me one other with shitty vocals, that you can't discern whether he's growling or trying to sing?

I'm sorry but are you trying to tell me that Mark Arm is a better vocalist then Kurt Cobain? No. Arm's voice is just as unmusical as Cobain's. Cornell, while an amazing singer, was also prone to growling fits on Soundgarden's records as well. Infact the only vocalist on that list that I woul refer to as a "great" singer would be Eddie Vedder, Cornell when he wants to, and maybe Weiland, maybe. Layne Staley's voice as well wasn't very musical. Man, for someone who criticizes Cobain being a junkie, you've picked not one, but TWO big-time junkies in this list (Staley and Weiland).

Also, I call bullshit on your claim of Cash being a poor vocalist, considering his musical style was indicative of a low gravelly voice. Could you imagine his structure with someone with a more conventional voice, like say Hank? I won't argue with you at all on Rotten, because his voice was wretched.

Please, Cash was just as unmusical as Cobain was. His musical style was not always indicative of a low and gravelly voice, have you heard some of his gospel albums? Don't try to tell me that gospel music requires a low and gravelly voice. And asking if I can imagine how great his voice would've been if he'd has Hank's voice is like saying Imagine how great Cobain's voice would have been if he had Vedders voice. Doesn't really mean anything.

Also, I never once claimed Kurt was a bad guitarist, I merely suggested he was too far gone from his heroin abuse.

And yet you listed both Layne Staley and Scott Weiland, two notorious junkies. Kurt's guitar playing was not too far gone from heroin abuse, thats bullshit, Cobain was already a hardcore junkie by 1992, yet his guitar playing is still great right up to his death.

I thou I suppose you'll argue he didn't have an addiction?

Why would I say that? As someone who's loved Nirvana for years, I'd be pretty f'n stupid to think Cobain wasn't a junkie.

Also, Krist has gone on record saying a major reason they hired Smear (outside of his work with The Germs) was because Kurt couldn't play during that tour, again, because of his drug use. Kurt was in fact a very competent player, on the occasions of his subsiding heroin usage, and after his stint in rehab.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me with what the topic of your argument is. How does any of that apply to the MUSIC that Cobain did create? Forget all the times he was too strung out to play a chord, that has no bearing on the quality of the songs he created. He created great songs right up to his death, regardless of his drug abuse.

To add to that, I realize he and Eddie have very different styles. One is fond of solos and riffs, the other focused mostly on melodies, like you pointed out. But to lump Cobaine in with Lennon and McArtney is giving him a little bit too much on the credit. Had he lived a little longer, maybe amass a little more time to hone his skill, I could understand. He's just not as good as those two.

It's really not a far stretch to compare Cobain with Lennon/McCartney. I'm talking in terms of technical guitar skill, all three were/are on equal grounds. Obviously the songs and melodies that the Beatles created were greater then those Nirvana did (atleast in my opinion), but in terms of talent at playing the guitar, they were all pretty much equal. In fact, Cobain might even have been better.

As far as his dissing PJ is concerned, you are absolutely right, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the music. It just speaks volumes on him as a person, that he would be so bitter and petty about another band being popular and having success. A band, by the way, that is still going strong. So, it doesn't directly effect the music, but, if you're a member of the Jamily, like myself, it rubs you the wrong way, and makes you think less of the man, and indirectly his music.

Again, the fact that he dissed Pearl Jam...is irrelevent. Has nothing to do with the quality of Nirvana's music, so there's no purpose to keep bringing it up.

You could be right, my feeling that they were overrated might stem from his insulting one of my favorite bands. Then again, it could be from the fact that I prefer songs with substance and research, not the ramblings of a man who is so drug-addled he started having delusions of grandeur. Hence why I would rather listen to Soundgarden over STP. It could also be because he couldn't go a whole concert without ripping off the Meat Puppets or Mudhoney, among other bands.

Again, you clearly don't know what you are talking about, at all.

A: Mudhoney and the Meat Puppets were extremely different from Nirvana. Nirvana were far heavier then either of those bands.

B: Dude, did you REALLY just criticize Cobain for being a drug-addled man with delusions of grandeur, and then say you'd rather listen to STP?! ROFL...dude Scott Weiland was just as hardcore of a junkie as Cobain was who had even BIGGER delusions of grandeur then Cobain could ever hope for! Weiland was a renowned egomaniac junkie, the only difference is that Nirvana actually had global success and respect, whereas STP was always seen as a commercialized version of grunge.

As an aside, the only reason, IMO, that Nirvana had a bigger following of casual fans, is because mags like Time, EW, and Rolling Stone dubbed them the "voice of a generation", while completely ignoring other bands who were more deserving. Nevermind Pearl Jam, why didn't Cornelle get his dues? Or, perhaps, a guy like Whitfield Crane from Ugly Kid Joe?

Maybe they dubbed him the voice of a generation, because, hmmm...HE WAS? Just because YOU don't like him, doesn't mean your opinion represents the majority of that generation. Talk to anyone who was growing up when Nirvana were at their height of fame, they were a cultural phenomenon that completely changed the direction of modern rock music. Before Nirvana we still had hair metal and it's ilk parading the rock charts. The Nirvana broke, and in the nearly 18 years since the album Nevermind first came out, popular rock music has been almost exclusively alternative rock.

As for the Ugly Kid Joe reference...to be the voice of a generation, more then 10,000 people have to know who the hell you are.

 

[The Dewbliners]

I'm gonna go ahead and say we should agree to disagree. It's obviously gonna be cyclical, a PJ fan and a Nirvana fan agruing over whether or not Kurt was overrated. This is my opinion, obviously not yours. We'll just wind up going in circles. But, in my defense, I NEVER said I prefer STP to Nirvana. What I did say was I'd rather listen to Soundgarden than the Pilots, for the same reason I prefer Pearl Jam over Nirvana. Why not let's pick apart my other picks.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I feel like getting into a fight / debate. And since Sly's been busy and I have not seen him in the wrestling section, I need to pick on XFear for my fix. And in the music sections - this is where X and I actually shine.

1. Billy Joel - I despise Billy Joel. The sight or sound of him makes every orifice in my body want to vomit. I was never a fan to begin with of the 70's easy listening singer-songwriter genre, but Joel takes the absolute cake for overwhelming mediocrity and miles of undeserved praise. When I think of bland and boring, Joel comes to mind. In closing, Billy Joel is the antithesis of everything that rock and roll and rebellion stands for.

Billy Joel despises you. He despises your face. Joel is a legend for a reason. The man is an accomplished singed, songwriter, and pianist. Not all rock and roll has to be about rebellion - it can be about love (All About Soul, She's Got A Way, Uptown Girl), the working class (Downeaster Alexa, one of his most underrated songs), growing up (Movin' Out, Captain Jack), etc. Billy Joel told songs about life itself, and he did so in a melodic and technically sound way. Sometimes up tempo, sometimes ballads. Joel has done it all.

If you want an over rated rocker, Take Springsteen. HE is over rated.

2. Arctic Monkeys - I'm sure Luther will hate me for this (not that I care), but the Arctic Monkeys have always struck me as immensely overrated.

Agreed. I can't even make something up to fight with.

3. Kings of Leon - I've sincerely tried to like these guys. I've sampled their albums, and heard that "Sex on Fire" song a hundred times, and it just doesn't do it for me. Like the Arctic Monkeys, they're not bad musicians or anything, their music just doesn't strike me as particularly creative, catchy, or artistic. They sound like they are trying way too hard to be the next big arena rock band, and they just don't have the talent to achieve that. Like someone before me said though, the way the people on this board jump all over them you'd think they were already legends of music, when they're really no better then average.

Jury is still out with me on them. I love their new stuff. But I am not ready to classify them as over or under rated yet.

4. Lil' Wayne - The most overrated rapper on the planet Earth. Some of his old shit isn't half-bad, but the praise heaped on this guy you'd think he was the next Biggie Smalls, when in truth the guy's rhymes are usually just awful gibberish completely lacking any intelligence or skill. His delivery is what sold him, but man, this guy is just really not that talented at all..

Oh dear god yes. See - Arctic Monkeys.

Dammit, X, we're supposed to disagree...otherwise where's the fun?

5. Pantera - I'll probably get in a lot of trouble with the resident metalheads for this one, and I was never really a big fan of the whole power-metal thing, but I really dislike Pantera. Some of their songs aren't bad, infact I even like a few (their cover of Sabbath's Planet Caravan is solid) but I just find them to be really mediocre and really...well, dumb. When I think dumb, xenophobic, semi-racist southern hick metal, I think Pantera.

This is so interesting to me. I like Pantera. Never understood the love affair with them - yeah, a little over rated. They are a metal anthem for the Confederate flag.

X, lets figure something out we can fight on. Billy Joel it is.

 

[X]

Billy Joel despises you. He despises your face.

That's what I was hoping for. Seriously, the hatred I hold for Billy Joel is just unnatural for someone who's never harmed me in any way. If someone asked me, who would you rather have taken out, Billy Joel or Saddam Hussein? I would've went with Joel.

Joel is a legend for a reason. The man is an accomplished singed, songwriter, and pianist. Not all rock and roll has to be about rebellion - it can be about love (All About Soul, She's Got A Way, Uptown Girl), the working class (Downeaster Alexa, one of his most underrated songs), growing up (Movin' Out, Captain Jack), etc. Billy Joel told songs about life itself, and he did so in a melodic and technically sound way. Sometimes up tempo, sometimes ballads. Joel has done it all.

I just find his particuliar style of singer-songwriter to be the most uninspired drivel imaginable. I want to beat my fucking head into submission whenever his voice begins singing. I'm not referring to his lyrics when I refer to the rebellious spirit of rock and roll, but the music. His music is about half a step away from being filed under Muzak. I understand he's a talented musician technically speaking so, but I just think at most he deserves to be remembered as an average artist, certainly not as a legend. He broke no new ground, and in my opinion wasn't very creative at all.

If you want an over rated rocker, Take Springsteen. HE is over rated.

I COMPLETELY agree with you there dude, I have never understand the massive appeal of Springsteen. He's got some quality tunes for sure (I love Glory Days) but I find an overwhelming majority of his music to fall under the same uncreative, blase category that Joel does.

Agreed. I can't even make something up to fight with.

Since we can't find much to argue about between ourselves, maybe we can rope Luther into a debate about how the Arctic Monkeys are nothing but ripoff artists. His anger would be simply delicious.

Jury is still out with me on them. I love their new stuff. But I am not ready to classify them as over or under rated yet.

I only went out of my way to listen to maybe 5 or 6 songs by them, but that was enough for me. I only call them overrated because of the countless fanboys on this board for them.

This is so interesting to me. I like Pantera. Never understood the love affair with them - yeah, a little over rated. They are a metal anthem for the Confederate flag.

Yeah see I don't dislike them or anything either, and I respect their contributions to the metal genre, but I find them unbelievably overrated, especially Dimebag Darrell. You want to talk about becoming overrated after you die, he is Exhibit A. He's above average for sure, but every time someone lists him as one of the "greatest guitarists of all time" I just want to knock them over the head with a Les Paul.

Plus, Phil Anselmo just sums up everything I hate about the human race. Stupid, xenophobic douchebags who think they're awesome. Hate that man with a passion.

X, lets figure something out we can fight on. Billy Joel it is.

Hrmmm...I don't know, throw out some of your personal beliefs, perhaps I can find ways to offend them.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Taylor Swift - My could be anybody be more overrated. Her face is plastered everywhere, and for what? She is the new generation of country music bullshit, is this what I am supposed to believe. Her songs suck, her voice sucks, she has the personality of a 2x4, and yet she has countless fans screaming her praises. It honestly makes me sick, because of some of the things she calls "country music" isnt country music at all. I bet Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, and Hank Williams are turning over in their graves every time one of her idiotic songs come on the radio. Which is usually about every 15 fucking minutes.

Kenny Chesney - This one kind of hurts me. Because when he first came onto the country music scene, he was actually putting out quality country songs. Then he started to work out and get a nice body on him, and then release one of the worst songs ever in "She Thinks My Tractors Sexy" and al of a sudden hes a huge guy. It doesnt make any sense to me, and since then he has put out shitty song after shitty song, because now he doesnt have to strive for stardom, he finally achieved it after releasing a shitty song and changing his appearance. Very fucking ******ed.

Carrie Underwood & Rasca Flatts - Carrie is a nothing more than a piece of bubblegum, and Rascal Flatts are nothing more than pretty boys with guitars. Both put out dreadful music and yet have numerous fans. Beats the shit outta me how they fucking do it.

 

[Goberz2K8]

Okay, here goes:

First and foremostNirvana- Most of the bands fans are only there because Kurt passed away, and can't name any of Nirvanas records outside of In Utero and Nevermind. Not to mention, Kurts voice was horrible, and couldn't play his guitar for an entire year on tour, because he was so junked up. Hence Pat Smear getting hired. Krist and Dave weren't bad, but nobody paid attention to them. Kurt also angered me with his calling Pearl Jam sell outs, just because they had a hit record or two (Temple of the Dog, Ten) before his band.

Next on my list is Dave Matthews Band-My reason is simple. His song lyrics usually make no sense, and he can't go anywhere without his trusty guitar. He seriously reminds me of the town douche who ruined sensitive guy music the world over.

O.K., I'm thinkin' the next band is Journey. Sure, they were good back in the day, but anymore their songs are fodder for people at the local Kareoke bar. They have become a joke of sorts, and it boggles my mind how it didn't happen sooner.

Next, I'll go with Green Day. I'll admit, they can make an occasional good track, but for the most part, they are just a bunch of whiny, guy-liner wearing pseudo-punks. I just don't understand the love fest they seem to get alot. Hell, I can't remember the last time I thought," I gotta get the new Green Day album!"

My next selection might seem like it's comin' from left field, but The Brian Setzer Orchestra tends to annoy me. It may have something to do with Setzers refusal to stick to one musical style for more than a week, I don't know. But for me, BSO was not at the front of the Swing Revival, that crown belongs to a true swing band, that stuck with it, and are still selling out clubs with that sound, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy.

I agree and disagree on you with Nirvana. You have to respect them for the impact they made.

I do disagree on the David Grohl thing. He wasnt a bad drummer, he wasnt an Ian Paice or Bill Ward leved (Deep Purple and Black Sabbath respectively), but the fact he hmade the crossover from Drummer to Rythym Guitarist and Lead singer, and fronting a highly successful band is a fantastic thing. Two well now, and famous bands is a feat not a lot of musicians do. I mist admit Im not the biggest Foo Fighters fan, but still, you gotta reepst him for that.

I must say to Xfearbefore, that, yeah Kurt Cobain was ok, but Pearl Jam were better.I can understand why Nirvana are good, but it seems to be all on Cobain, but looking at Nirvanas Bleach alubm, and their second album - Nevermind - which has been certified 10x Platinum by the RIAA (10 million copies in US), where as Pearl Jam's Ten has been certified around 15-16x Platinum in US (so that must say something on who was the better Grunge Band....) Personally I go for Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains(I own their Debut album Facelift..) but whatever you believe, Nirvana, pearl Jam and Alice in Chains were at the forefront of Grunge....